Male/Female Platonic Friendships

[90_hour_sleep]

@alchemist, you sound a bit PO'd, not sure why as no one is suggesting (at least not I) that men can't ever have platonic friendships with women.

 

I think it's the opposite, they can and do!

 

It's just that for me, my experiences have been that whenever I had a friendship with a man, he has always wanted "more" (dating, sex, whatever). Which, after they've told me, I'm not comfortable with, so I end the friendship.

 

Now, given my experiences, I don't pursue friendships with men anymore. Regardless of whether I'm in an exclusive RL or not. It's my own personal thing based on my own experiences.

 

But as has been posted here from the ladies and some men, such friendships are quite common!

 

Some men (such as Steve Harvey, the man I chatted with during break, and Unreasonable) believe those friendships are somewhat disingenuous because the man often has other intentions. Which again, is what I have experienced.

 

That opinion is fine too, we are all different and will have different feelings/opinions about it.

 

Healthy boundaries, based on your experiences...

 

Curious if you've given any thought to what you're throwing out there in terms of vibes when it comes to your interactions with men. I don't know you at all, so can't presume to know how you behave. So it's really a question of curiosity. Not making any assumptions about your character here.

 

Is it possible that you're an overtly flirtatious kind of person? Is it possible that you're throwing signals into the mix unconsciously? Why hasn't it been in your experience to develop platonic friendships with men? Men are part of the equation, but you're the common denominator. Granted some women occupy a level of attractiveness that puts them in a slightly different position. But still, even for those, it seems unlikely that there would never be opportunity for a legitimate platonic friendship to develop. What makes you different than others who have had different experiences?

 

I can think of a few examples (not all that many in my limited personal experience albeit) of women I know that aren't entirely aware of how their behaviour affects people. Certain behaviour is obviously very enticing in terms of attraction. And there is some level of reward on an emotional level. Attention feels good under the right circumstances. And maybe there's an attraction on her end of things that she feels good about. Maybe her own desire to develop some sort of friendship with a man impedes her ability to establish healthy boundaries right from the get go. Feeling that if she lets on that she's not interested in anything beyond friendship, there isn't room for anything.

 

It's complex. People want different things at different times, and none of us can possibly know what another person's intentions are until those intentions have been stated clearly. So much room for misunderstanding.

[itsallgrand]

If the main motivation or even one of the strong motivating factors for friendship is sexual attraction to a person , then it's not really friendship is it .

I do believe men and women can be friends. Real friends. So can two men and one or both is gay, two women and one or both is gay.

 

The thing is a lot of people call someone friend for any connection . Acquaintance, crush, man/woman you'd like to sleep with, someone you'd pursue if both of you were in a position to do so and receptive to it.

 

There's always some risk because we can't know all that goes on in someone's head and heart. We have to go by actions, what they show us. That's true of all relationships though.

 

I've had it happen a few times, more often when I was younger, that a friend brought up an attraction. Two instances come to mind, a man and woman, both friends. As I've gotten older, incidences where it gets to that point don't really happen anymore, as I have more experience and communicate better myself, and can understand cues of friendships that can go astray a better now.

For those instances though, I can think of friendships where it's been nothing but smooth sailing on the up and up, and in most of those cases, for various reasons, it's pretty obvious sexual attraction isn't there or is so mold as to be very simple to manage, definitely not a strong enough reason to make effort to be friends on that. Not everyone is attracted to everyone, and that's great sometimes.

[katrina1980]

 

Curious if you've given any thought to what you're throwing out there in terms of vibes when it comes to your interactions with men. I don't know you at all, so can't presume to know how you behave. So it's really a question of curiosity. Not making any assumptions about your character here.

 

Is it possible that you're an overtly flirtatious kind of person? Is it possible that you're throwing signals into the mix unconsciously?

 

Great points to which I alluded to in my original post. Questioning whether or not I'm subconsciously sending signals/vibes that I'm into them (sexually, romantically).

 

I am definitely not an overtly flirtatious person, quite the opposite, in fact!

 

But I have had men (including my own brothers when I've asked them) AND women tell me I give off a sort of sexual/sensual vibe without intending to. It's very subtle and as I said, I am not even aware of it.

 

The way I speak, my voice, the way I carry myself, my entire essence really, I've been told this.

 

I do not dress provocatively at all (unless it's behind closed doors with my boyfriend lol), so it's not even that.

 

I also give people I interact with (men and women) lots of attention. I do not enjoy interacting in large crowds, I'm best at one-on-one interactions. So I may give men the wrong impression there too.

 

It's just my vibe I guess, I unintentionally (and subtly) give men the impression I am into them more than a friend, which in turn, results in them developing "feelings" even if just sexually. Some men have become very angry at me when discovering I'm not into them "that way."

 

I can't change who I am though. I can't even try to "tone myself down" because I'm not doing anything specific to "tone myself up."

 

It's just my vibe, my essence so to speak.

[thealchemist]

I didn't intend to come off pissed...

[Unreasonable]

Great points to which I alluded to in my original post. Questioning whether or not I'm subconsciously sending signals/vibes that I'm into them (sexually, romantically).

 

I am definitely not an overtly flirtatious person, quite the opposite, in fact!

 

But I have had men (including my own brothers when I've asked them) AND women tell me I give off a sort of sexual/sensual vibe without intending to. It's very subtle and as I said, I am not even aware of it.

 

The way I speak, my voice, the way I carry myself, my entire essence really, I've been told this.

 

I do not dress provocatively at all (unless it's behind closed doors with my boyfriend lol), so it's not even that.

 

I also give people I interact with (men and women) lots of attention. I do not enjoy interacting in large crowds, I'm best at one-on-one interactions. So I may give men the wrong impression there too.

 

It's just my vibe I guess, I unintentionally (and subtly) give men the impression I am into them more than a friend, which in turn, results in them developing "feelings" even if just sexually. Some men have become very angry at me when discovering I'm not into them "that way."

 

I can't change who I am though. I can't even try to "tone myself down" because I'm not doing anything specific to "tone myself up."

 

It's just my vibe, my essence so to speak.

This reminds me of the "if you didn't want unwanted attention, why are you dressing that way?" line of thinking. I think we can all agree, that it SHOULDN'T be that way. I am not that way. But I have to admit, there IS a non-negligible percentage of men that are not used to getting a lot of unsolicited attention from women. And I think there is a non-negligible percentage of women that display complete indifference to guys they are not attracted to, and even some they ARE attracted to because a woman is not "supposed" to be the pursuer. So, as soon as a man encounters a woman that does give them attention, they automatically assume they're into them "that way." I know this happens for a fact because my wife is a very chatty, friendly person, and has run into this problem, a LOT, over the years. Now, I don't think this necessarily anybody's fault, per se. I just think that societal norms and expectations create this atmosphere.

[thealchemist]

Great points to which I alluded to in my original post. Questioning whether or not I'm subconsciously sending signals/vibes that I'm into them (sexually, romantically).

 

I am definitely not an overtly flirtatious person, quite the opposite, in fact!

 

But I have had men (including my own brothers when I've asked them) AND women tell me I give off a sort of sexual/sensual vibe without intending to. It's very subtle and as I said, I am not even aware of it.

 

The way I speak, my voice, the way I carry myself, my entire essence really, I've been told this.

 

I do not dress provocatively at all (unless it's behind closed doors with my boyfriend lol), so it's not even that.

 

I also give people I interact with (men and women) lots of attention. I do not enjoy interacting in large crowds, I'm best at one-on-one interactions. So I may give men the wrong impression there too.

 

It's just my vibe I guess, I unintentionally (and subtly) give men the impression I am into them more than a friend, which in turn, results in them developing "feelings" even if just sexually. Some men have become very angry at me when discovering I'm not into them "that way."

 

I can't change who I am though. I can't even try to "tone myself down" because I'm not doing anything specific to "tone myself up."

 

It's just my vibe, my essence so to speak.

I have also been told my personality comes off as flirtatious.

 

I just like to talk to people and that is often confused with romantic interest.

[Batya33]

I have also been told my personality comes off as flirtatious.

 

I just like to talk to people and that is often confused with romantic interest.

 

Same here. Years ago I met a guy at a religious event which was also partly a singles event. I was dating my future husband. We chatted for about a half hour or more -I was not flirtatious and I specifically mentioned my "boyfriend" a few times. I did not give him my number but he looked it up, called me and asked me out. I was certain he didn't hear the "boyfriend" comment but obviously thought I'd be interested in a date. Of course, people ask people out even if there is no flirting if they're both single and it's a pleasant conversation.

[thealchemist]

Same here. Years ago I met a guy at a religious event which was also partly a singles event. I was dating my future husband. We chatted for about a half hour or more -I was not flirtatious and I specifically mentioned my "boyfriend" a few times. I did not give him my number but he looked it up, called me and asked me out. I was certain he didn't hear the "boyfriend" comment but obviously thought I'd be interested in a date. Of course, people ask people out even if there is no flirting if they're both single and it's a pleasant conversation.

I have 2 children and a wife. If you talk to me for more than 5 minutes I mention them. Even with that some woman will still think I am into them and pursue.

 

I have had to cut out several female friends because they couldn't get that I was never going to be interested in them. You know, because I am married with children...

[katrina1980]

I have also been told my personality comes off as flirtatious.

 

I just like to talk to people and that is often confused with romantic interest.

 

Yeah this happened again last night. Let me know what you think.

 

I was waiting for elevator in my apt building last night which seemed like forever.

 

A guy (I'd say around 35 or so) carrying bags walked over and started waiting too.

 

I'd never seen him before so after we exchanged mutual "heys" I asked him if he was just moving in.

 

He said yeah and asked me how long I'd been living there. I responded back and from there we started engaging in convo about downtown (which is where we live) and other things.

 

It was a relatively long convo because turned out the elevator was broken so we had to walk to another and wait for that one.

 

He told me he had lived in several places downtown before moving to this one and being my usual self I was very engaging asking him "oh where?" bla bla, we continued chatting, it was actually quite an enjoyable convo!

 

No personal questions at all. Turns out we live on the same floor.

 

When we got off the elevator, he looked straight at me and said, "good night, it was very nice meeting you!"

 

I replied it was nice meeting him too and asked him his name. He told me, I told him mine, then before he walked off (in other direction) he said very casually "hey Kxxxx, if you're free Friday night, I'd like to buy you a drink." We both work "9:00-5:00ish jobs).

 

I'm busy Friday night (with boyfriend although I didn't tell him that it seemed contrived since he didn't ask me if I have a BF) but we exchanged numbers.

 

Honestly, it was such a "friendly" exchange, it didn't seem like he was "hitting" on me at all, more like maybe we could be "friends"? Since we both live in same building and all?

 

When I got home I told my gf what happened and she said "don't be silly he liked you and wants to take you out, like on a date!"

 

But this is the kind of thing that happens quite a bit when I am out and about.

 

I'm not flirting, just talking, being friendly!

 

What do you think? From what I shared about exchange, does it appear like he wants a new friend or to take me out on date?

 

I'm still not really sure.

[Unreasonable]

What do you think? Does he want a new friend or to take me out on date?

Of course he is. If taking someout out for alcoholic beverages 1 on 1 isn't a date, I don't what is. Then you took his number. /facepalm

 

In my opinion, your response SHOULD have been "Thanks, but I have a boyfriend." At which point, the guy would probably be a little embarrassed, and wonder why you just spent 10 minutes talking to him. But hey, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

[thealchemist]

Well that sounds like he was asking you on a date.

 

In social situations if someone ever asks me to do an activity one on one or asks for my number I assume they are romantically interested.

 

Just from my experience that is the case most the time.

 

I was in the grocery last week and started talking to the person near me. I had female and kids items in my basket, and she started a conversation based on that.

 

You dont go buying the stuff I was buying unless you are in a LTR. I also mentioned my wife because she didn't seem to grasp that I had one even with all the signs.

 

About 5 minutes in she tells me that she would kill to have a husband like me and if she had a guy like me she would blow his mind.

 

That is the kind of crap I get a lot. Mentioning I have a wife and kids normally seems to egg it on.

 

I just end up being a huge @sshole instead.

 

But something about me makes sketchy people like that approach me normally.

 

At least they normally approach me in such a direct way that their is no ambiguity.

[thealchemist]

Of course he is. If taking someout out for alcoholic beverages 1 on 1 isn't a date, I don't what is. Then you took his number. /facepalm

 

In my opinion, your response SHOULD have been "Thanks, but I have a boyfriend." At which point, the guy would probably be a little embarrassed, and wonder why you just spent 10 minutes talking to him. But hey, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Honestly I do agree here a bit.

[katrina1980]

Of course he is. If taking someout out for alcoholic beverages 1 on 1 isn't a date, I don't what is. Then you took his number. /facepalm

 

In my opinion, your response SHOULD have been "Thanks, but I have a boyfriend." At which point, the guy would probably be a little embarrassed, and wonder why you just spent 10 minutes talking to him. But hey, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

So I am not allowed to talk to guys and/or be friendly to new neighbors (men) because I have a boyfriend? Without them thinking I want to date them?

 

You're right though, when he asked me for a drink, I should have thanked him and told him I have a BF but it seemed presumptuous since he hadn't asked if I have a BF, like most men do upon meeting me for first time when interested.

[katrina1980]

So, with all this talk about opposite gender friendships, women saying they have many male friendships, even when in a relationship, how in the world am I supposed to make male friends if I don't talk to any and be friendly because I have a BF?

 

Like I said, I am NOT flirting, just talking, being friendly. I enjoy talking to all people, men and women. Doesn't mean I want to date all of them!

 

Can you understand what a mixed message that is?

 

Not talking about the asking for drink thing, I get that; I'm specifically referring to the comment you (Unreasonable) made about him wondering why I just spent ten minutes talking to him since I have a BF.

 

I am not understanding your rationale there.

[journeynow]

be respectful and mindful of your relationships and boundaries when it comes to opposite-sex friends and all should be fine.

 

Totally possible. If you value the friendship, you maintain the boundaries.

 

I believe in a committed relationship it's a bad idea to hide friendships from the other person and can be disloyal.

 

Personally I find the implication that men can't resist their female friends a little patronizing.

 

 

I agree with all these ^. In my lifetime I've been physically attracted to many people, but that doesn't mean I have to act on it. What about awareness, being mindful of situations, other characteristics, the context of the friendship, and, of course, your other relationships, and those who would be affected by your actions? I don't believe in having secret or exclusive friendships when you are in a committed relationship, because it's important that everyone respects each other.

[Unreasonable]

So I am not allowed to talk to guys and/or be friendly to new neighbors (men) because I have a boyfriend? Without them thinking I want to date them?

No, I'm not saying that. You don't report to me and are allowed to do whatever you want. Just understand that these kind of encounters have a good chance at leaving a guy confused. There's no getting around that. Perhaps you should consider subtly weaving your relationship status into prolonged conversations with men you've never met before fairly early on. Hey, just some friendly advice that you can take or not.

 

Don't worry about being presumptuous. He was being presumptuous that you were single. No decent guy would ask a women out for drinks on a Friday night if he knew she had a boyfriend.

[katrina1980]

No, I'm not saying that. You don't report to me and are allowed to do whatever you want. Just understand that these kind of encounters have a good chance at leaving a guy confused. There's no getting around that.

 

Don't worry about being presumptuous. He was being presumptuous that you were single.

 

___

>>No decent guy would ask a women out for drinks on a Friday night if he knew she had a boyfriend.

 

Well then perhaps he does just want to be friends. Since he didn't ask.

 

I've had women suggest we meet for drinks too when first meeting me.

 

Isn't having a drink together something friends would do?

 

You are assuming because he is a man and I am a women, naturally it must mean he wants to date me.

 

I am not stupid, I know when a man is hitting on me.

 

And honestly, this didn't seem like it. We're neighbors.

 

But you could be right too, I just don't think it's always so black and white.

[thealchemist]

Well then perhaps he does just want to be friends. Since he didn't ask.

 

I've had women suggest we meet for drinks too when first meeting me.

 

Isn't having a drink together something friends would do?

 

You are assuming because he is a man and I am a women, naturally it must mean he wants to date me.

 

I am not stupid, I know when a man is hitting on me.

 

And honestly, this didn't seem like it. We're neighbors.

 

But you could be right too, I just don't think it's always so black and white.

I have gotten into a habit of mentioning my relationship status in any early meeting with opposite gender. It helps avoid a lot of confusion.

 

I do this a lot regardless of gender too.

 

But just so no woman get the wrong idea or has confusion with my intentions.

 

But I do understand your annoyance.

 

But whether it is fair or not many guys will be wanting more than friendship. That is just from my life experiences. Many do not approach with a "hitting on" mentality though.

 

Honestly I find it true with woman too.

 

I have not had a woman in the last 5 years approach me for anything but romantic interest. Excluding coworkers.

 

It is just the way it is.

 

Which is why I mention my wife very quickly.

[katrina1980]

Anyway, just in case anyone is wondering, I am not gonna pursue anything with him, even if his intention is to be friends.

 

I will continue to say hi when I see him and that's it; I would not want to "lead him on" by continuing talking to him..

 

It's just too confusing, plus I have a BF and just not worth it.

[katrina1980]

@alchemist, Thnx but not really annoyed, more just confused cause there are a lot of mixed messages being sent in this thread.

[Unreasonable]

Well then perhaps he does just want to be friends. Since he didn't ask.

Yes he did, unless you're playing with semantics with asserting he wants to take you out, and asking.

 

I've had women suggest we meet for drinks too when first meeting me.

 

Isn't having a drink together something friends would do?

Surely you can tell the difference between a girls night out and a girl and guys night out. Suppose you went with this guy, who is oblivious to your relationship status, out for drinks. He offers to pick up the tab. What do you say at that point? Have you told him you had a boyfriend already? Do you politely refuse, offer to split the check, at which point he says "No, no, I insist." THEN do you tell him you have a boyfriend? You say you have upset some guys who thought you were leading them on. At this point, I would be upset.

 

You are assuming because he is a man and I am a women, naturally it must mean he wants to date me.

No, I am saying that taking a girl out for drinks on a friday night is. a. date. If he wanted to take you out for coffee in the middle of the day, I would consider that plausibly platonic, but even then it is most likely to test the waters.

 

I am not stupid, I know when a man is hitting on me.

 

And honestly, this didn't seem like it. We're neighbors.

Yeah, and you found that out when? 10 minutes prior? This isn't some situation where neighbor Bob you've been friends with for months who knows both you, your boyfriend, and the names of all your cats. This is a guy you met 10 minutes ago.

 

But you could be right too, I just don't think it's always so black and white.

I don't think it always is either, but in this case, I definitely think it is.

[katrina1980]

Yes I CAN tell the dfference between "girls night out" and "guys night out" (guy taking me on date).

 

I already said that.

 

And THiS did not appear to be a guy asking me out on a "date."

 

I think it's wrong to assume just because he is a man and I am a woman, it MUST mean he wants to "date" me.

 

It doesn't, just read these posts from the women! And some men.

 

This is what is so confusing to me, and precisely why, as I have been saying from the beginning of this thread, I don't have friendships with men anymore, they always want "more."

 

Each and every time.

 

Thank you, you just confirmed why I should stick with that thought process.

[thealchemist]

I think their are mixed opinions simply because this is a highly opinionated subject.

 

Men and woman can be platonic friends.

 

But it can also be dangerious when not bound with some sort of rule set.

 

But if anyone asked me out for drinks on a Friday I would assume romantic intentions.

 

But if you told that guy you had a bf and he was fine with that then maybe he could be a friend. But from how you explained it I have next to no doubt he was trying to ask you on a date.

 

But like I said. You can be friends with a guy but 90% of the time if a guy acts that way it is romantically based.

 

But that doesn't mean all guys are seeking it.

 

I might ask a girl to hang out like that but it would be a day activity or a group one.

[katrina1980]

I think their are mixed opinions simply because this is a highly opinionated subject.

 

Men and woman can be platonic friends.

 

But it can also be dangerious when not bound with some sort of rule set.

 

But if anyone asked me out for drinks on a Friday I would assume romantic intentions.

 

But if you told that guy you had a bf and he was fine with that then maybe he could be a friend. But from how you explained it I have next to no doubt he was trying to ask you on a date.

 

May I ask why you're so sure of that?

 

Not to be snarky but were you there?

 

No.

 

Buy hell you may be right (not ruling out the possibility) so as I said, not gonna pursue it, so it's moot now, anyway.

[Unreasonable]

May I ask why you're so sure of that?

 

Not to be snarky but were you there?

 

No.

 

If you want us to drop it, fine. But I propose a thought experiment:

 

One day your boyfriend comes home and says "Hey, the new girl in apartment 3A wants to go out for drinks with me on Friday night. What do you think about that?"

 

What's your response? Be honest with yourself here.