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I would say give him a chance. Nobody is perfect after all.

 

I think it will be pretty easy to decide if you go out with him a couple of times more.

 

In the end though, listen to your gut feeling. If you think something is not right, well something is indeed not right.

 

Milly, do you have mediterranean heritage ? if you don't mind me asking of course.

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I would say give him a chance. Nobody is perfect after all.

 

I think it will be pretty easy to decide if you go out with him a couple of times more.

 

In the end though, listen to your gut feeling. If you think something is not right, well something is indeed not right.

 

Milly, do you have mediterranean heritage ? if you don't mind me asking of course.

 

Thanks for your input, dias!

 

I’m still thinking about what I’m going to do, and it will probably be a few more days before I make that decision. I’m hoping that this time will give me clarity.

 

The thing is, if I knew for sure he wanted another chance, I think I’d go for it. But, I’m not sure he does want another chance.

 

And like I mentioned before, he was blowing hot & cold throughout the night, which was extremely confusing. One minute he seemed very sweet, the next he seemed very angry & irritable. I’ve never seen such angry facial expressions like this from a man who I was trying to get to know on a more personal and intimate level. Like a flip of a switch, he’d change.

 

In my mind, there are a few possible reasons for his behaviour: 1. He’s interested, but defensive and has a “I’m going to hurt you before you hurt me mentality” 2. He’s interested but not defensive. He’s just plain angry and snippy. 3. He’s not interested & I just happened to see his true character & personality.

 

I agree that no one is perfect, and that we all have our faults. But if he’s normally this snippy, and it wasn’t just his nerves getting the best of him on Saturday, I could never tolerate this type of behaviour, ever. It would be a dealbreaker, for sure.

 

In terms of my heritage, I don’t know my full background. But, I would be surprised if I did have Mediterranean heritage.

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In my mind, there are a few possible reasons for his behaviour: 1. He’s interested, but defensive and has a “I’m going to hurt you before you hurt me mentality” 2. He’s interested but not defensive. He’s just plain angry and snippy. 3. He’s not interested & I just happened to see his true character & personality.

 

Well, it seems you have your answer.

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You know it's not a science and it's so individual. We all have our boundaries and sometimes we find ourselves shifting boundaries and evaluating -am I shifting because I'm trying to justify bad behavior or was I overreacting? I too wish it were easier at times. Sometimes it means you'll have a few missteps. I'd let yourself sit with this -without overly focusing -and let the answer come to you.

 

I'll give a general example. I realized the other day I was focusing far too much on the people in my life who have acted in a flaky unreliable way and not appreciating enough the people who are genuine, genuinely reliable - it's so much easier to focus I find on the people who disappoint -maybe sometimes because it is a bit of a challenge to figure out why, to get this "complicated" person to like us. Try not to let him divert energy away from the people who are consistent, who might get moody or irritable but do not take it out on you. Good luck!

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You know it's not a science and it's so individual. We all have our boundaries and sometimes we find ourselves shifting boundaries and evaluating -am I shifting because I'm trying to justify bad behavior or was I overreacting? I too wish it were easier at times. Sometimes it means you'll have a few missteps. I'd let yourself sit with this -without overly focusing -and let the answer come to you.

 

I'll give a general example. I realized the other day I was focusing far too much on the people in my life who have acted in a flaky unreliable way and not appreciating enough the people who are genuine, genuinely reliable - it's so much easier to focus I find on the people who disappoint -maybe sometimes because it is a bit of a challenge to figure out why, to get this "complicated" person to like us. Try not to let him divert energy away from the people who are consistent, who might get moody or irritable but do not take it out on you. Good luck!

 

Thanks, B. I’m just playing it by ear.

 

Right now I’m leaning more towards not reaching out, but it could mainly be because of my pride.

 

I don’t want my decisions to be driven by my pride. I find too many people do this, especially when it comes to matters of the heart! No one wants to get hurt, so we tend to put up our defences, make incorrect assumptions, and live with regret.

 

I don’t want to live my life with regret, so I do try and put myself out there, even if it hurts. I’ve been very open with this guy, and I tend to initiate the more open conversations, and then he follows suit.

 

I’ll see how I feel over the next few days. Hopefully by then I’ll have a clearer perspective.

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I find myself just going back to my original response here: not a great date.

 

The long list of how the not-great-date was actually maybe a great date? What I see there, in a sense, is a form of "pride" more than the way you just described it. In short: you trying to will reality back to the fantasy in your mind, kind of thinking all this spinning around is some kind of "sign." A sign that your connection was special, or maybe a sign that it wasn't. A sign that he was nervous and deserves another chance. A sign that your 20something ways reared their head in your 30s, sabotaging something sparkling. A sign that...

 

And so on, and so forth.

 

I don't think it needs to be this complicated—and, generally speaking, that complications like this aren't the best sign. Doesn't mean you're a mess or he's some hot/cold weirdo, but just a chemistry experiment in which the two liquids don't mix well in the beaker.

 

That's how I think of things, at least. I've gone on lots of dates over the past year or so. The ones that led to second dates were the ones where...I simply wanted to see someone again, asked, and they said yes. It wasn't an algebra lesson or a limbo challenge. The ones that felt like that? Those were the first dates. The ones that started feeling like that after a second date, or fourth date, or sixth week? Those ended too, for basically the same reason.

 

The beaker cracked or bubbled over. Bummer, but I don't want to feel like a mad scientist. I don't feel like that generally, so if I feel like that in romance it means something isn't clicking the way I need it to click.

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I find myself just going back to my original response here: not a great date.

 

The long list of how the not-great-date was actually maybe a great date? What I see there, in a sense, is a form of "pride" more than the way you just described it. In short: you trying to will reality back to the fantasy in your mind, kind of thinking all this spinning around is some kind of "sign." A sign that your connection was special, or maybe a sign that it wasn't. A sign that he was nervous and deserves another chance. A sign that your 20something ways reared their head in your 30s, sabotaging something sparkling. A sign that...

 

And so on, and so forth.

 

I don't think it needs to be this complicated—and, generally speaking, that complications like this aren't the best sign. Doesn't mean you're a mess or he's some hot/cold weirdo, but just a chemistry experiment in which the two liquids don't mix well in the beaker.

 

That's how I think of things, at least. I've gone on lots of dates over the past year or so. The ones that led to second dates were the ones where...I simply wanted to see someone again, asked, and they said yes. It wasn't an algebra lesson or a limbo challenge. The ones that felt like that? Those were the first dates. The ones that started feeling like that after a second date, or fourth date, or sixth week? Those ended too, for basically the same reason.

 

The beaker cracked or bubbled over. Bummer, but I don't want to feel like a mad scientist. I don't feel like that generally, so if I feel like that in romance it means something isn't clicking the way I need it to click.

 

I hear you, BC.

 

Yes, I could be projecting, but the reason I mentioned how I was back in my 20's is because I thought I could see a defensiveness in him. And back when I was in my 20's, I wish I could have done some meets/dates over (and had a second chance), because I believed I shot myself in the foot by my nerves getting the best of me. I'm not saying that's definitely what's happening here. I'm just saying that it could be a possibility.

 

Do I believe that dating and meets should be easy and uncomplicated? Yes, most definitely. In fact, I mentioned this to him via text prior to our meeting, that whatever was going on between us shouldn't be confusing or complicated, and he agreed. This is why I haven't reached out, yet (that's if I ever do). Also, to think that I haven't heard from him since Wednesday (when he replied to my text) speaks volumes. He always responded and engaged in conversation with me via text - especially if there was ever a misunderstanding between us (which we rarely ever had. Even if there was a misunderstanding we always resolved it and laughed it off). This time, he's silent. So, in my mind, I wonder if he cares.

 

I also believe in second chances, within reason. His blowing hot & cold had me confused. I could have swore he was interested!

 

Another issue here is that I feel like I've been the only one initiating any more serious conversations about what we were doing, the delay in our meeting up, etc., and then he follows suit each and every time by saying, "yes, I agree". So the thought of initiating yet another conversation makes me feel tired.

 

Do I feel this is going nowhere? Kinda.

 

Right now all I want to do is figure out what I will regret more - not reaching out, or reaching out, if that makes sense.

 

I still haven't figured that out, but hopefully I will soon.

 

My mind's all over the place right now, but one thing's for sure, I wish I knew what he was thinking (if anything about our situation at all).

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I wish I knew what he was thinking.

 

I'm not omniscient, nor am I very rich, but I'd comfortably put up 10K that you can find the answer to this by looking in the mirror.

 

You guys are in opposite corners of the same ring. Feeling versions of the same thing. You both went to the firework show, thinking it would blow you away. Instead some kids ran around with sparklers in puddles. Ugh. Weird. Throws you for a loop.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I spent a lot of my 20s with a gun in hand, unlimited bullets in the chamber, firing at my foot. In romance. In friendship. In work. But, yeah, especially in romance. Do I wish I could of done approximately a zillion things differently? Of course. Do I think I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be because of exactly how I did things? Yup. Did I shoot the same foot with the same gun plenty in my (now almost over) 30s? You bet.

 

Point being, time to let those moments go. You didn't miss out on anything. You were just coming into yourself, the thing we spend our lives doing, but in a particularly clumsy way in our 20s. Whatever happened over chicken wings and water with this guy isn't a referendum on all that.

 

ANYOW, I believe in second chances to. And third ones. And many more. But I also believe in joy and pleasure and that life isn't a maze. Want to talk to him again? Text him. Want to sit? Sit. One or either of those will lead you to the next step—with him, in general. I do think what's frustrating you right now, in part, is that this guy has been a lot more theory than reality for a good long time. The synapses in the brain are firing hard, but those other ones? Something is blocking them, and a lot of the time that's worth just seeing instead of trying to figure out.

 

Just something to think about. Let this gestate, do you, and the next step will reveal itself.

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I'm not omniscient, nor am I very rich, but I'd comfortably put up 10K that you can find the answer to this by looking in the mirror.

 

You guys are in opposite corners of the same ring. Feeling versions of the same thing. You both went to the firework show, thinking it would blow you away. Instead some kids ran around with sparklers in puddles. Ugh. Weird. Throws you for a loop.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I spent a lot of my 20s with a gun in hand, unlimited bullets in the chamber, firing at my foot. In romance. In friendship. In work. But, yeah, especially in romance. Do I wish I could of done approximately a zillion things differently? Of course. Do I think I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be because of exactly how I did things? Yup. Did I shoot the same foot with the same gun plenty in my (now almost over) 30s? You bet.

 

Point being, time to let those moments go. You didn't miss out on anything. You were just coming into yourself, the thing we spend our lives doing, but in a particularly clumsy way in our 20s. Whatever happened over chicken wings and water with this guy isn't a referendum on all that.

 

ANYOW, I believe in second chances to. And third ones. And many more. But I also believe in joy and pleasure and that life isn't a maze. Want to talk to him again? Text him. Want to sit? Sit. One or either of those will lead you to the next step—with him, in general. I do think what's frustrating you right now, in part, is that this guy has been a lot more theory than reality for a good long time. The synapses in the brain are firing hard, but those other ones? Something is blocking them, and a lot of the time that's worth just seeing instead of trying to figure out.

 

Just something to think about. Let this gestate, do you, and the next step will reveal itself.

 

Thanks for your advice, BC. As always, it's appreciated. Seriously. The advice from everyone on this forum has been amazing.

 

I don't think I'm really getting my point across clearly about why I referred to dating back in my 20's, but that's okay. It's pretty much irrelevant at this point.

 

On a different note, everyone, please know that I DID send the text. I was honest in terms of my thoughts, and mentioned that I was unsure about us, but that I was willing to give it one last go/meet if he was up for it. And if by chance he doesn't want to give it one last go, I'd completely understand.

 

It actually felt good to send because I was being honest about how I felt.

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I think being honest is a separate issue from deciding whether to share information with another person - that's about a choice to share, not about "being honest" - being honest means not lying if someone asks you a question about how you feel and honest can also be "I'd prefer not to share". I just a few minutes ago sent an email like that in an unrelated context. I have information to share which would make me feel good to share -to be "honest" but I told the person I need to think first about whether I want to share the information and in what context. Of course you know your boundaries and how many chances you want to give someone - but that's not about being honest (although maybe it requires a level of self-honesty).

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I think being honest is a separate issue from deciding whether to share information with another person - that's about a choice to share, not about "being honest" - being honest means not lying if someone asks you a question about how you feel and honest can also be "I'd prefer not to share". I just a few minutes ago sent an email like that in an unrelated context. I have information to share which would make me feel good to share -to be "honest" but I told the person I need to think first about whether I want to share the information and in what context. Of course you know your boundaries and how many chances you want to give someone - but that's not about being honest (although maybe it requires a level of self-honesty).

 

Hey B., I'm not sure I understand what you mean?

 

All I am saying in my last post is:

 

1. It felt good to reach out to him; and

2. To be honest in terms of how I feel, and why I'm reaching out. A friend was recommending that I send a message that would make it seem like I was really into him/us/the situation, and that's why I wanted to see him again. But, I couldn't do that. My message was upbeat, but honest, and that felt good. I won't get into the details of my message, but I don't want to mislead anyone or for him to think that I was over the moon, because let's be honest, I don't think either of us could say it was the best of nights.

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Oh I mean that your motive in texting him wasn't to be "honest" it was to share information in the hopes of getting a response from him -two separate things and two separate motivations. That is how I read your post and now I see you just meant it felt good to share your honest feelings.

 

I find that people often justify reaching out and sharing information with someone who might not be healthy for them because "I was just being honest" as if this justifies making a choice that could be harmful/risky in some way. I read your post originally to mean that you reached out to him in order to be "honest".

 

I am glad you feel good about your decision to reach out to him!

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Oh I mean that your motive in texting him wasn't to be "honest" it was to share information in the hopes of getting a response from him -two separate things and two separate motivations. That is how I read your post and now I see you just meant it felt good to share your honest feelings.

 

I find that people often justify reaching out and sharing information with someone who might not be healthy for them because "I was just being honest" as if this justifies making a choice that could be harmful/risky in some way. I read your post originally to mean that you reached out to him in order to be "honest".

 

I am glad you feel good about your decision to reach out to him!

 

Thanks for clarifying, B.

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Haven’t heard anything in reply. I messaged him yesterday morning.

 

If I don’t receive a response, I will be blown away (and hurt, even though I’ll get over it).

 

There is absolutely no justifiable reason to ignore me...none at all. I didn’t do anything to him.

 

If you don’t want to see me again, for the luv of gawd, please have the courtesy to tell me. It’s called human decency. I won’t beg or plead. I’ll accept it, wish you well, and move on.

 

Why do I get the feeling that if he doesn’t respond, that he just wants to hurt me?

 

Good gawd...

 

Funnily enough, a friend suggested I ghost him months ago. I told her I wouldn’t because that would be rude, it’s just not in my character to do so, and because he did not do anything to me that would justify me not responding. Even if he did say/do something, I would still let him know I’m not interested.

 

The lack of reply will just re-confirm and validate my feelings anyway, as to why, again, we’re not a match.

 

And fwiw, I don’t regret reaching out to him.

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Why do I get the feeling that if he doesn’t respond, that he just wants to hurt me?

 

Why do you think you get that feeling?

 

I'm of the belief that very, very few people—sociopaths and psychopaths, basically—make choices because they "just want" to hurt other people. It might be worth asking why you think his response—or lack of response—would be with intentional malice rather than something else: that his "best" is not right for you, that the potential for a match is not a match.

 

Easier, I think, to just accept people for who they are rather than for punishing them (and, by extension, yourself) for failing to meet expectations. Keeps the toes nimble and the heart open, rather than everything being antagonistic where it needn't be.

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Why do you think you get that feeling?

 

I'm of the belief that very, very few people—sociopaths and psychopaths, basically—make choices because they "just want" to hurt other people. It might be worth asking why you think his response—or lack of response—would be with intentional malice rather than something else: that his "best" is not right for you, that the potential for a match is not a match.

 

Easier, I think, to just accept people for who they are rather than for punishing them (and, by extension, yourself) for failing to meet expectations. Keeps the toes nimble and the heart open, rather than everything being antagonistic where it needn't be.

 

Because BC, I invested 9 months of my time in this person, and he with me.

 

At no point has any message gone unacknowleged by either one of us. And the message I sent yesterday was pretty heartfelt (I was asking him out, for gosh sake).

 

To me it’s just basic human decency to respond, regardless, but especially considering our circumstances.

 

To do otherwise is hurtful.

 

By no means would a lack of response be his “best”. No way, no how...

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Why do you think you get that feeling?

 

I'm of the belief that very, very few people—sociopaths and psychopaths, basically—make choices because they "just want" to hurt other people. It might be worth asking why you think his response—or lack of response—would be with intentional malice rather than something else: that his "best" is not right for you, that the potential for a match is not a match.

 

Easier, I think, to just accept people for who they are rather than for punishing them (and, by extension, yourself) for failing to meet expectations. Keeps the toes nimble and the heart open, rather than everything being antagonistic where it needn't be.

 

Let me ask you this, BC, if a woman asks you out via text, will you respond?

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And I will add this, speaking from personal experience, any time a guy has acted this way (and I’m including actions from last Saturday, too - the snippiness and anger) is because he’s butt hurt.

 

Yet in this situation, I have no idea why.

 

I’m clueless...

 

I’ve seen & heard passive-aggressiveness in many forms, and last weekend, to date, are no exception...

 

He could still respond at this point, but I’m not holding my breath.

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I just have a slightly different approach.

 

Is he being less than decent, inconsiderate? Yes. But is he making that choice to hurt you? No. He's being himself, and in being himself he is causing you discomfort, and hurt. He did this on the date (discomfort) and he's doing this now with his response time (hurt).

 

I don't think his agenda is to derail you. I just think he's not as great as you'd hoped, but you'd still really, really like him to prove otherwise and are frustrated that he's not doing so. And all that, I think, also hurts a bit right now.

 

Yes, when a woman asks me out, I respond. But my responses have not always been what the woman wants to hear. Some have taken that gracefully, some of not. I don't see either response as having to do with me, but just an extension of their character. You're seeing a window into his character right now. You don't like what you're seeing, understandably, but I don't think you need to make it about him actively scheming up ways to hurt you.

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I just have a slightly different approach.

 

Is he being less than decent, inconsiderate? Yes. But is he making that choice to hurt you? No. He's being himself, and in being himself he is causing you discomfort, and hurt. He did this on the date (discomfort) and he's doing this now with his response time (hurt).

 

I don't think his agenda is to derail you. I just think he's not as great as you'd hoped, but you'd still really, really like him to prove otherwise and are frustrated that he's not doing so. And all that, I think, also hurts a bit right now.

 

Yes, when a woman asks me out, I respond. But my responses have not always been what the woman wants to hear. Some have taken that gracefully, some of not. I don't see either response as having to do with me, but just an extension of their character. You're seeing a window into his character right now. You don't like what you're seeing, understandably, but I don't think you need to make it about him actively scheming up ways to hurt you.

 

I agree with you. I am seeing his true character now, as opposed to what he fed me via text over the last 9 months and who I perceived him to be.

 

I'll get over it, but yeah, it stings.

 

I don't think he's spending much time scheming up ways to hurt me. I think it just comes down to knowing right from wrong, and he definitely knows the difference in terms of how his actions, or lack thereof, will affect others. It's basic common sense and doesn't take much thought process. The way we've communicated over the last 9 months proves this. Guy is no schmuck and wasn't born yesterday. That said, he knows how a lack of reply will affect me. But, like I mentioned earlier, this just re-confirms or validates the feelings I experienced last weekend when I questioned our compatibility.

 

And as someone who is always there for his family and friends and wanting to lend a helping hand, all the more reason why I find this behavior unusual. But again, I guess he isn't what I thought...

Edited by milly007
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