Why do we pick people who don't want us?

[figureitout23]

Mandee, you never answered my question: what did these 4 men have in common?

 

Dating is hard for most people, to believe you have a problem after having 4 bad expiereinces, what keeps happening? What's the common denominator?

[katrina1980]

@ TwT, fair enough.

 

Personally I have never ghosted, or "ignored" anyone, nevermind men I have dated.

 

I 'have' walked away from a few dating experiences, then had second thoughts later, which is what I was referring to.

 

I've missed them and wanted to reach out.

 

But don't anymore cause like I said, it's selfish; unless of course I am 100% certain I want to start dating again, which I am not sure of. So won't do it anymore.

 

I edited my post Re a man leaving with no explanation and then returning.

 

I actually only had one man I "dated" do this, except no he has not returned and if he did, tbh not sure how I would react, depends on what he says. But would be VERY wary about it and cautious.

 

The other men, we stopped seeing each other, often times it was me walking away, but they were the ones to reach out later. Sometimes (as I said) I did.

 

I realize it's important to stay realistic, but trying to stay away from negative thinking and attitudes and this notion of the "bad guy."

 

It just doesn't work for me, it brings me down and depresses me.

 

I am strong and know how to take care of myself, emotionally and otherwise.

 

So no matter what happens, I KNOW I will be okay.

 

I have learned that people have anxieties and fears and don't intend to hurt others; I can usually sense the difference between men like this and men with some sort of psychopathy (those guys are "bad" guys).

 

Fortunately, I have not encountered too many men like this though (like one or two tops) but when I have, I walk away *immediately* and NO second chance if they were to show up again months later.

[mandeelove]

Mandee, you never answered my question: what did these 4 men have in common?

 

Dating is hard for most people, to believe you have a problem after having 4 bad expiereinces, what keeps happening? What's the common denominator?

3 came on strong, said I love you too quick, moved into jealousy/controlling/trust issues from their end. All ended in big fights where we cut each other off. Only 1 from those 3 keeps re-appearing. The rest , we broke up, never had contact again.

 

The 4th didnt come on strong, was the opposite of all those men combined. Had no trust issues. But would not commit emotionally. We were very much together , he just did not give me anything emotionally. He could not open up. His actions did not equal liking me either. I had to make more effort than him.

 

I do not know the common denominator. Only the first 3 seemed all similar as far as fast attraction, sparks flying, fake promises, then quick endings. The 4th guy made no promises. He basically was always quiet when it came to anything.

 

What I see in all of them though is I missed red flags, stayed longer than I should, and once it was over, still tried to fix things.

 

I dont know exactly what they had in common. I am still trying to answer that question. And I know you may say all were unavailable or commitment phobes but 2 out of the 4 got engaged right after me.

[Silverbirch]

Mandee, you never answered my question: what did these 4 men have in common?

 

Dating is hard for most people, to believe you have a problem after having 4 bad expiereinces, what keeps happening? What's the common denominator?

 

Maybe the opposite question can be more insightful. I have 3 sisters, all happy in long-term marriages - though for 2 of them, it is their second marriages. Second marriages have been for 21 and 15 years.

 

I believe that I am different from them, especially in dating behaviour. All of them dated lots of men, much of it simultaneously. The one who has been married very very happily could be a real B with men, would dump them at the first sign of copy behaviour behaviour. I suppose it's fair to say that she didn't ever wear her heart on her sleeve. Right from early teens, there was a handful of males just dying to be her boyfriend.

[figureitout23]

3 came on strong, said I love you too quick, moved into jealousy/controlling/trust issues from their end. All ended in big fights where we cut each other off. Only 1 from those 3 keeps re-appearing. The rest , we broke up, never had contact again.

 

The 4th didnt come on strong, was the opposite of all those men combined. Had no trust issues. But would not commit emotionally. We were very much together , he just did not give me anything emotionally. He could not open up. His actions did not equal liking me either. I had to make more effort than him.

 

I do not know the common denominator. Only the first 3 seemed all similar as far as fast attraction, sparks flying, fake promises, then quick endings. The 4th guy made no promises. He basically was always quiet when it came to anything.

 

What I see in all of them though is I missed red flags, stayed longer than I should, and once it was over, still tried to fix things.

 

I dont know exactly what they had in common. I am still trying to answer that question. And I know you may say all were unavailable or commitment phobes but 2 out of the 4 got engaged right after me.

 

Re the bold - on the contrary, while I can respect that line of reasoning. I don't think it's a catchall and I don't really think that's your issue.

 

Me personally, I don't think you have any issues, I get the vibe you want to 'understand' your actions, you want to pinpoint the problem so you can control it. And I think the reason why you as a counselor can't figure it out is because it's impossible to figure out, we can't control our emotions in that manner, we as humans are all susceptible to heartache.

 

I think your dating dilemmas are quite common, you're just meeting duds, but it's affecting you a lot and you don't like it, so you're trying to fix it. But again, reading this I see a lot of armchair diagnosis, including from you and me! Haha, but I don't think you're any different from most people. Dating sucks and with relationships your feelings get hurt sometimes. I don't think there's a way to avoid that, I think that the last guy, the one who was different from the others got to you deeply but that doesn't mean there's something wrong with you, you're expiereincing heartache. Even the most put together women expierience it. I don't think Jennifer Aniston has deep rooted childhood issues, but she was devestated by Brad. It happens.

 

I would kill to be able to have sex NSA, it's just not in the cards for me, like you, I feel a lot. I don't think there's a way to... stop that. Be conscious of it and make changes to my actions to avoid it? yes, stop it? No.

[mandeelove]

Re the bold - on the contrary, while I can respect that line of reasoning. I don't think it's a catchall and I don't really think that's your issue.

 

Me personally, I don't think you have any issues, I get the vibe you want to 'understand' your actions, you want to pinpoint the problem so you can control it. And I think the reason why you as a counselor can't figure it out is because it's impossible to figure out, we can't control our emotions in that manner, we as humans are all susceptible to heartache.

 

I think your dating dilemmas are quite common, you're just meeting duds, but it's affecting you a lot and you don't like it, so you're trying to fix it. But again, reading this I see a lot of armchair diagnosis, including from you and me! Haha, but I don't think you're any different from most people. Dating sucks and your feelings get hurt.

 

I would kill to be able to have sex NSA, it's just not in the cards for me, like you, I feel a lot. I don't think there's a way to... stop that. Be conscious of it and make changes to my actions to avoid it? yes, stop it? No.

That is very true. Emotions can not be controlled. I lead with my heart in everything. Not my mind. The only time I lead with my mind is in sex because I will never fall for anything and give up sex just to keep someone. So thats def a strength of mine. I have strong boundaries with that.

 

I appreciate you seeing my situation from a diff point of view !!!! .thanks. i know feelings cant be controlled but I def want better boundaries and standards for myself. I want to know what my deal breakers are etc. I accept too much .

[figureitout23]

That is very true. Emotions can not be controlled. I lead with my heart in everything. Not my mind. The only time I lead with my mind is in sex because I will never fall for anything and give up sex just to keep someone. So thats def a strength of mine. I have strong boundaries with that.

 

I appreciate you seeing my situation from a diff point of view !!!! .thanks. i know feelings cant be controlled but I def want better boundaries and standards for myself. I want to know what my deal breakers are etc. I accept too much .

 

I think that's a great starting point, understanding my motives has helped me a lot, going through counseling. I think you're a lot better off than you think you are Mandee!

[mfrankie1]

You pick the people familiar to you, familiar in the way they make you suffer, for example you repeat a cycle from childhood - Alain De Botton, but I'm paraphrasing.

[Batya33]

You pick the people familiar to you, familiar in the way they make you suffer, for example you repeat a cycle from childhood - Alain De Botton, but I'm paraphrasing.

 

Love Alain de Botton -highly recommend you read his books OP

[mandeelove]

Love Alain de Botton -highly recommend you read his books OP

Thank you I will look into it !

[firelily]

Maybe it could be a good experience to try to date out of type. To give a chance to someone who personality-wise seems so completely different from usual type that it's not attracting you at first. Someone who give off a vibe of safety, emotional maturity and availability. Even if nothing serious would come out of it, dating different people than usually could break the spell and show you where you want to be.

 

I don't know if you've noticed that kind of filter you use. I've noticed about myself that I'm attracted to brooding, easy-going guys, who turn out lazy and depressed. If I see a guy who is active, sporty, optimistic and happy, I consider him a shallow person who wouldn't be an adventure for me. Making an effort to romantically consider people like that or try to date the was a growing experience for me. Eventually what stopping me from pursuing a positive, successful person is the belief that I'm not good enough for someone like this. But then I have new information about where I need to do work on myself before entering a dating world again.

 

Maybe you're not as attracted to people who are emotionally available because they seem too needy, nice, sweet, un-manly, I don't know... I would try to search for whatever you pull away from yourself without any reason other than preference. Maybe upon closer look, you could learn to find that quality to be sexy, especially after your negative experiences. Or maybe it is that you find certain people "above" yourself and don't pursue them. Either way, I'd try that out, if you haven't already.

[mandeelove]

Maybe it could be a good experience to try to date out of type. To give a chance to someone who personality-wise seems so completely different from usual type that it's not attracting you at first. Someone who give off a vibe of safety, emotional maturity and availability. Even if nothing serious would come out of it, dating different people than usually could break the spell and show you where you want to be.

 

I don't know if you've noticed that kind of filter you use. I've noticed about myself that I'm attracted to brooding, easy-going guys, who turn out lazy and depressed. If I see a guy who is active, sporty, optimistic and happy, I consider him a shallow person who wouldn't be an adventure for me. Making an effort to romantically consider people like that or try to date the was a growing experience for me. Eventually what stopping me from pursuing a positive, successful person is the belief that I'm not good enough for someone like this. But then I have new information about where I need to do work on myself before entering a dating world again.

 

Maybe you're not as attracted to people who are emotionally available because they seem too needy, nice, sweet, un-manly, I don't know... I would try to search for whatever you pull away from yourself without any reason other than preference. Maybe upon closer look, you could learn to find that quality to be sexy, especially after your negative experiences. Or maybe it is that you find certain people "above" yourself and don't pursue them. Either way, I'd try that out, if you haven't already.

Thank you, very good suggestion. I only date the same type of men. I def have a type, not only in looks but in personality. So I could def try something different to gain experience. I wouldnt be opposed to that to learn and see if I could break the mold. Every guy Ive dated looked the same and acted the same. Crazy now that I think of it.

[thorough]

Thank you. I guess its good to train yourself to not get excited . Something I must learn too.

 

I too get excited when they show attention and come on strong in the beginning stage. I see red flags but the feelings are nice so I ignore them. Or give benefit of the doubt. Also alot of the guys dont show their true colors until Im emotionally attached making it hard to just walk away. I stay until they get it right but that day never comes.

 

But its funny because ALL the relationships that ended in flames, the men came on strong . They wanted to say I love you within a month and promise a future. Every one of them said they "never felt like this". They also planned amazing dates, did thoughtful loving things. They supported me. Always were there for me, you name it. It was very hard to tell they were full of crap. The endings were shocking.

 

The last guy though was the complete opposite of those men. He took his time. He moved slow. He was very mature. However then I faced a new problem. He was emptionally detached alltogether. I wasnt used to it at all but i stayed because ive always had the quick moving men. I figured maybe this style was good for me or "the right way". It came with its own set of issues, as I posted several times about. So this lead me to write my post.

 

Whether I meet men who come on strong, or ones who are too distant, it all ends in the same way and I want to figure this out so I never make the same mistakes. I understand most people are saying Im unavailable subconsciously or the men are, but Ive tried dating different types and all wind up ending ..i guess I have to pick a guy who falls right in the middle but how to recognize it, Im not sure. They either come on strong or not at all.

 

The stability came w/my current bf and I'm extremely relieved. He pays attention to me consistently and we did fall for each other pretty quickly. One difference he didn't flatter me and tell me fantasies.

 

Lets say I had a huge learning experience this year which made me super aware. I met a guy online, he started flattering from the 1st message and was even talking marriage (extremely weird). When I met him, he seemed liked a perfect guy. He spoiled me on our several dates and talked about how great I was. Once I got caught, he pulled back and ended up lying to me about blocking me on social media (I didn't do anything to merit getting lied to or blocked). I'm embarrassed to say I broke down in tears over the whole thing. That really kicked me in the butt and from then on I didn't trust anyone, saved me from getting pulled in again, there was another guy I really liked who ended up only wanting sex (no I did not sleep w/him).

[IAmFCA]

I suggest changing how you frame the dating experience. Become the pickER not the pickEE. So what if he comes on strong, weak, or in between. If you don't want him, you don't want him.

 

Getting excited that a man is attentive is akin to seeing that your homework got a gold star from the teacher. Why should some man's attention be worth getting excited about? You already know you are lovable (right?), and that excitement is short term (right?). That self and mutual respect, conflict resolution and values grow with time right?).

 

What is there to get extra excited about?

[mandeelove]

I suggest changing how you frame the dating experience. Become the pickER not the pickEE. So what if he comes on strong, weak, or in between. If you don't want him, you don't want him.

 

Getting excited that a man is attentive is akin to seeing that your homework got a gold star from the teacher. Why should some man's attention be worth getting excited about? You already know you are lovable (right?), and that excitement is short term (right?). That self and mutual respect, conflict resolution and values grow with time right?).

 

What is there to get extra excited about?

Yes I am the pickEE. At first I have the control. It always starts like that. They chase me. Then eventually they are the picker, they have control, and I am wondering how that ever happened.

 

And very true. I get excited over things that should be the minimum of what a guy should do for a woman. I praise it. Meanwhile I have to start seeing that I deserve it and they deserve no kudos for it.

[IAmFCA]

Yes I am the pickEE. At first I have the control. It always starts like that. They chase me. Then eventually they are the picker, they have control, and I am wondering how that ever happened.

 

And very true. I get excited over things that should be the minimum of what a guy should do for a woman. I praise it. Meanwhile I have to start seeing that I deserve it and they deserve no kudos for it.

 

Well, yes... I like using different language. Less about about what one should do, what one deserves. That language feels judgmental to me, and therefore has a certain negativity to it and a certain complexity. Same content, different tone: he does x and y and I like that. Or, he displays x and y traits and those are important to me.

 

In my own life, my undue level of excitement was rooted in my desire for validation, and my excitement - while seemingly about the guy - was really about my joy at being validated. Something to think about.

[IAmFCA]

... You describe a transfer of power, from being the PICKER to somehow becoming the PICKEE. You call the shots, and then eventually he calls the shots. That transfer of power to him is something I used to experience regularly and I found it frustrating. Check yourself for instances of wanting his approval: once you put him in position of validating you, approving you, you have transferred to him power that is yours alone. That is where your solution lies; own yourself.

 

...

 

Re emotions -- I do think they can be managed by reframing a situation. There is almost always another perspective that will change our emotions, if we are willing to reframe the event. When I was dating a guy who kept going dark etc I was getting angry and feeling used etc until I realized I was the one putting myself in that position. Once I saw it as a choice I was making, I was no longer mad at him. I was curious with myself, why would I put up with that? Very powerful because I can't change someone else but I can change myself. By reframing the situation, I acquired a way to solve it.

[mandeelove]

... You describe a transfer of power, from being the PICKER to somehow becoming the PICKEE. You call the shots, and then eventually he calls the shots. That transfer of power to him is something I used to experience regularly and I found it frustrating. Check yourself for instances of wanting his approval: once you put him in position of validating you, approving you, you have transferred to him power that is yours alone. That is where your solution lies; own yourself.

 

...

 

Re emotions -- I do think they can be managed by reframing a situation. There is almost always another perspective that will change our emotions, if we are willing to reframe the event. When I was dating a guy who kept going dark etc I was getting angry and feeling used etc until I realized I was the one putting myself in that position. Once I saw it as a choice I was making, I was no longer mad at him. I was curious with myself, why would I put up with that? Very powerful because I can't change someone else but I can change myself. By reframing the situation, I acquired a way to solve it.

That is what I am doing now currently. As bad as a situation was, I chose to stay in it. I went back for more. I then felt horrible. It was all me because at the end of the day noone is forcing us. We make the choices.

 

So thats led to me to really find out why I stay in such situations. Im unhappy, sad, depressed, angry, hurt....yet I will go back. So I used to blame the guys but its me taking it all. I just dont know why I do it so Im trying to figure it out.

 

It could be that once I lose control, I feel like I want control back. So the rest of the relationship is me trying to make the man back to what he was when we met. It never happens really. And yes I do look for validation. The men sense it so they refuse to give it. Whether its on purpose or not. The last guy I dated knew I liked certain things and hed withhold it on purposr. It felt like punishment. I started to really feel bad about myself. He would never even give a compliment. It killed him to do so and the whole relationship was me asking myself why im not good enough? But really he was the issue. Not me.

[mandeelove]

Another example is in the last relationship I did all the leg work. Id drive to him. Hed never come see me. If i asked ,hed get mad and go missing to avoid it. He would make me feel guilt like why did I ask him? I thought something was wrong with me and not good enough to have a guy drive to see me for once. It was bad but then I realized he had issues... But I had bigger issues for staying in that mess trying to investigate why this man didnt think i was good enough to make an effort and drive 20 miles.

[IAmFCA]

You rock. You are confronting the tough questions head on. I applaud you.

 

This site helped me immensely... years ago, I took myself apart and put myself back together again. The root cause was in my childhood; the parents I had - who were amazing - modeled a dynamic that I don't want; I was still looking for something I had wanted my parents (esp dad) to give me, emotionally, when I was a child. I was afraid of failure, which by definition means I was squelching my voice and avoiding success. Fear fear fear, yet my fam and friends have called me fearless.

 

I googled. I talked to my inner child. I reasoned my way through it. Best thing I have ever done for myself.

 

--

 

I think I already said, but just in case - topics I googled were about being codependent, intimacy avoidant, and father-daughter dynamics. Sometimes I googled "why do I hurt so much" just to get unstuck.

[mandeelove]

You rock. You are confronting the tough questions head on. I applaud you.

 

This site helped me immensely... years ago, I took myself apart and put myself back together again. The root cause was in my childhood; the parents I had - who were amazing - modeled a dynamic that I don't want; I was still looking for something I had wanted my parents (esp dad) to give me, emotionally, when I was a child. I was afraid of failure, which by definition means I was squelching my voice and avoiding success. Fear fear fear, yet my fam and friends have called me fearless.

 

I googled. I talked to my inner child. I reasoned my way through it. Best thing I have ever done for myself.

 

--

 

I think I already said, but just in case - topics I googled were about being codependent, intimacy avoidant, and father-daughter dynamics. Sometimes I googled "why do I hurt so much" just to get unstuck.

Thank you and I applaud you too. It isnt easy. Its actually quite painful this self-discovery stuff but its never too late to change. And they do say you must be whole on your own before someone else can love you and you love them. I def have searched for people to complete me and I know its wrong. People should only be an addition to your life...not the saving force. But strangely enough the guys did not complete me. They made the voids worse because they kept rejecting me in all diff ways. I guess its something from my childhood but I cant figure out what.

 

I think this site is great too. Its really been helping me . Ive been googling alot too. I found so many things in relation to my situation. But like I said , doing the work is the hardest part. Applying the concepts take real practice. And I feel that I wont really know if Im learning anything until I apply it to a relationship. Right now Im avoiding relationships . Just trying to get mysrlf together.

[Batya33]

The best way I got myself together was through relationships -through the learning I did, the perspectives- obviously if you are choosing unavailable men or tolerating bad treatment you're not going to learn much but at the very least I'd get out of my head if I were you and focus on at least non-dating/romantic relationships - be other-centered - do volunteer work, cultivate new friendships, etc.

[IAmFCA]

Thank you and I applaud you too. It isnt easy. Its actually quite painful this self-discovery stuff but its never too late to change. And they do say you must be whole on your own before someone else can love you and you love them. I def have searched for people to complete me and I know its wrong. People should only be an addition to your life...not the saving force. But strangely enough the guys did not complete me. They made the voids worse because they kept rejecting me in all diff ways. I guess its something from my childhood but I cant figure out what.

 

I think this site is great too. Its really been helping me . Ive been googling alot too. I found so many things in relation to my situation. But like I said , doing the work is the hardest part. Applying the concepts take real practice. And I feel that I wont really know if Im learning anything until I apply it to a relationship. Right now Im avoiding relationships . Just trying to get mysrlf together.

 

[url="

 

Adding to your google suggestions if you've not seen it yet.

 

In my case, I felt as if my voice had been dismissed, my needs had been subordinated to others' needs, and I wanted someone to protect me from failure (?) by providing me the security of a safety net. My feelings were valid -- I am part of a large family and was praised for being self-reliant and flexible, and it was acknowledged in the family that I raised myself, in a sense. I didn't see what I was missing, in part because I knew I was loved, my parents were married, provided for us, and were generally good parents. I had learned excellent coping skills; I didn't know I had missed anything. Once I uncovered the big gaping hole that would have been filled with my father's protective reach, I acknowledged that I missed something; I questioned whether I still needed it; proved that I didn't; and then, as corny as it sounds, literally spoke out loud to my child-self to explain that it was protected, safe, and in fact complete. It was weird, and corny, and effective. And scary for some reason. And then empowering. I really can't explain it in concrete terms.

[mandeelove]

I would love to get to that place. It sounds profound for you and thats great !!. It must have been a sense of relief when you discovered the missing puzzle piece? Its like your life had a fresh start.

 

Right now Im in the stage where Im looking at my childhood and listing some things I see but they dont seem big enough to effect me long term. I just know that as far back as I can remember I was always trying to take care of people and never take care of me. And no matter how bad I felt , I would help a person before me. I would never let anyone know I actually needed the help more than anyone.

 

It sounds like a great trait ..it sounds selfless! But in reality I forget my needs. I forget my voice...like you said. And for me, I look at people who left me with no hesitation. I admired how they did it. They were unhappy and they left me. No questions asked. These were the same people who I never left even when they were making me unhappy. Its kind of crazy but I learn through that too. They leave with no remorse for my feelngs so I strive to be like that. Not hurting anyone but putting me first . Its easier said than done though.

 

Thank you for the link...I am going to read up on it.

[mandeelove]

The best way I got myself together was through relationships -through the learning I did, the perspectives- obviously if you are choosing unavailable men or tolerating bad treatment you're not going to learn much but at the very least I'd get out of my head if I were you and focus on at least non-dating/romantic relationships - be other-centered - do volunteer work, cultivate new friendships, etc.

True I'm thinking that. Because all relationships have a similar theme in my life. So I will focus on that.