Why do we pick people who don't want us?

[mandeelove]

I love the analogy of playing a slot machine.

You keep putting money into it hoping for the payoff.

You don't want to walk away because after all, you've invested in so much.

 

Every once in a while, you get the pay off. The high takes over and it keeps you hooked.

Sitting in the same chair, giving away your money and pulling that arm in the off chance you get the payoff for all that you invested and you can have that high again.

It's the same psychology behind how casino's make their money

 

What u said is very real. If I invest into a relationship or helped a guy, I want a payoff for it. I cant lose after wasting so much time. So no matter what bad stuff I accepted, Ill do it just for a reward at the end. Reward being the man changes and I can be happy with him finally. Also happy that I changed a man for the best.

 

I too look for the exit signs in a relationship but its more that Im waiting for them to leave me. Ive always been left. I never leave anyone, its really crazy. So Ill be in a relationship waiting for the ending because thats what Im used to. They always leave but they were never there to begin with. They were emotionally unavailable, liars or cheaters. I only had one good guy in my whole life but other than that all bad guys.

 

I do look to my childhood. My parents were married. Still are. Dad is a good guy. We had a good childhood. Only thing is my father paid more attention to my brother and not me. I was a straight A student but he only cared about what my brother was doing because he was the star athlete. This is actually still going on in my adult life. My dad loves me for sure but hes more interested in my brother. Whether this affects my life In dating Im not sure but therapy would make that connection possibly.

[reinventmyself]

I do look to my childhood. My parents were married. Still are. Dad is a good guy. We had a good childhood. Only thing is my father paid more attention to my brother and not me. I was a straight A student but he only cared about what my brother was doing because he was the star athlete. This is actually still going on in my adult life. My dad loves me for sure but hes more interested in my brother. Whether this affects my life In dating Im not sure but therapy would make that connection possibly.

 

My family dynamics seemed pretty benign. I kept digging and digging and came up with something. The more I processed it, the more came to light. (all of this with the help of a therapist)

My older brotheer was an `at risk' kid. Always in trouble and my parents spent all their time trying to save him from himself. I tend to be introverted, `good, quiet kid' Good, quiet kids don't really get noticed. I was basically invisible. I also had the dubious honor of the being referred to as `good one'

 

Nothing terribly remarkable about all of this, right? But as I looked at it deeper, that combined with me having absolutely no recollection of my mother connecting, bonding or being remotely affectionate with us kids set me up to be who I am. My parents, bytheway, are good people. But, it's all they knew to do.

 

I am still trying to get the attention of a parent figure (controlling men) and I am trying to win over unavailable people.

Someone who's available, open and intimate with me challenges me to do things that don't feel quite natural.

 

My dad was large in character and a very dynamic person. He could also be intimidating.

I have dated or been attracted to men in power(or status) and have this need to either look up to them or be one step down.

It mirrors my relationship I had with my dad. Unfortunately the men I have dated were aloof and controlling at the same time.

I tend to be a magnet for narcissists too.

 

Enough about me. . I don't mean to high jack your thread.

I just thought sharing some of what took me years to figure out might help.

 

It doesn't magically change things. Not even close. But it does give you some insights to work with.

[mandeelove]

My family dynamics seemed pretty benign. I kept digging and digging and came up with something. The more I processed it, the more came to light. (all of this with the help of a therapist)

My older brotheer was an `at risk' kid. Always in trouble and my parents spent all their time trying to save him from himself. I tend to be introverted, `good, quiet kid' Good, quiet kids don't really get noticed. I was basically invisible. I also had the dubious honor of the being referred to as `good one'

 

Nothing terribly remarkable about all of this, right? But as I looked at it deeper, that combined with me having absolutely no recollection of my mother connecting, bonding or being remotely affectionate with us kids set me up to be who I am. My parents, bytheway, are good people. But, it's all they knew to do.

 

I am still trying to get the attention of a parent figure (controlling men) and I am trying to win over unavailable people.

Someone who's available, open and intimate with me challenges me to do things that don't feel quite natural.

 

My dad was large in character and a very dynamic person. He could also be intimidating.

I have dated or been attracted to men in power(or status) and have this need to either look up to them or be one step down.

It mirrors my relationship I had with my dad. Unfortunately the men I have dated were aloof and controlling at the same time.

I tend to be a magnet for narcissists too.

 

Enough about me. . I don't mean to high jack your thread.

I just thought sharing some of what took me years to figure out might help.

 

It doesn't magically change things. Not even close. But it does give you some insights to work with.

No you didnt hijack my thread at all. I find it very helpful and its making me look into my own stuff. I appreciate your openness. I was also the good child. My brother was messing up alot and he got more attention. He also had a real talent that everyone paid attention to so I was in the background. My talent was good grades and being smart but I guess its not in your face like sports. Also was a quiet, good kid. Noone paid attention to me. I was feeling rejected alot. I dont think it was their intention. It just happened. My question was why am I so good if no reward out of it? Its the same question I ask myself with men.

 

I can see why you would try to go for unavailable men based on your family dynamics. In my dating world I always try to win men over. I want them to notice me. Choose me. But I could never win their attention. Kind of like in my childhood I guess. I deal with alot of rejection. And I attract cold distant men. I myself am very loving. I am open. I am the furthest thing from cold so to attract a cold man puzzles me. Then again it could be due to my past.

 

Wow I attract narcissists too! We have many similarities lol .and I attract men who I seek approval from. Men who ALWAYS call the shots. I never call the shots. They start to pick me apart and I try to impress them.

 

I want to ask you how long does it take to fully start recovering ? I know you are doing the work in therapy currently, but did you find it very hard to get over your relationship issues? I know you are still going through it . Just want to see if it was a long painful journey.

 

Once you realized the childhood connection, was that when real healing took place? How do you apply it then to your life and change?

 

Thank you again for sharing.

[figureitout23]

Yes I am doing self work moving forward so I dont attract these kinds of people and I can walk away from bad situations early. Im looking forward to being alone and taking care of my own things. Thank you

 

Well concidering the fact that you wrote this in October about the last guy I'd say you are your own worst enemy, unfortunately. If you are already dating, you haven't taken any time to be single, reflect, heal, work on yourself. If this is a new guy it seems like you're jumping from one disaster to another knowing you shouldn't. So if that's the case the only one who has an answer to your question is you.

 

So, why do you keep doing this?

[mandeelove]

Well concidering the fact that you wrote this in October about the last guy I'd say you are your own worst enemy, unfortunately. If you are already dating, you haven't taken any time to be single, reflect, heal, work on yourself. If this is a new guy it seems like you're jumping from one disaster to another knowing you shouldn't. So if that's the case the only one who has an answer to your question is you.

 

So, why do you keep doing this?

I have not dated anyone since my last break up. I am alone. we broke up in October.

[figureitout23]

I have not dated anyone since my last break up. I am alone. we broke up in October.

 

Apologies, I read it as a current dilemma.

 

I still believe you have all the answers. You come off as someone who has no problem looking within and recognizing unhealthy relationships, you just seem to hold onto them despite that and almost refuse to believe what's right in front of you and dwell on making the right decision, almost as though youre bargaining.

 

That's honestly why I thought this was a new guy cause you got so much great advice you made some awesome comments seemed to be on the right track and then this post. It confused me.

 

I think sometimes it just boils down to self esteem. I think some people accept bad behavior simply because they think that's the best they can get and they'd rather be unhappy than alone.

[ThatwasThen]

Why do we pick people who don't want us? Because scarcity creates value. By becoming scarce, they become valuable in our eyes

 

That is right out of the players handbook. David D'Angelo or Mistry comes to mind. I think it works on women who are addicted to emotional trauma and the 'come here/go away' dynamic.

 

On a side note: I recommend all women read the books from the two 'dating gurus' mentioned above. Its a real eye opener. These tactics, I assume would work well on anyone that lets a guy like Mandee describes hook them in emotionally.

[mandeelove]

That is right out of the players handbook. David D'Angelo or Mistry comes to mind. I think it works on women who are addicted to emotional trauma and the 'come here/go away' dynamic.

 

On a side note: I recommend all women read the books from the two 'dating gurus' mentioned above. Its a real eye opener. These tactics, I assume would work well on anyone that lets a guy like Mandee describes hook them in emotionally.

Do you think these type of men know what they are doing? Or do u think their unavailability is on a subconscious level too? Because I throw out vibes that I am craving security and then they pull the rug out from under me right after. Sometimes its the same guy too over and over. I often wonder if they are conscious of what they do to me or they just see me as weak and someone to abuse.

[figureitout23]

Do you think these type of men know what they are doing? Or do u think their unavailability is on a subconscious level too? Because I throw out vibes that I am craving security and then they pull the rug out from under me right after. Sometimes its the same guy too over and over. I often wonder if they are conscious of what they do to me or they just see me as weak and someone to abuse.

 

You're trying to figure these men out when you should be worried about you

[mandeelove]

You're trying to figure these men out when you should be worried about you

Yes true .

[IAmFCA]

We purposefully choose relationships with men who are imperfect matches because it protects us from being in a relationship that might want to fight to keep - or that we would be deeply sad to lose.

 

Said the other way - it protects from succeeding - because we are afraid to want something we can't control, and because we think we would have to control it to keep it. Success is frightening -- what if we try and fail? Better to go for something nobody expects to work, that way it isn't our fault when it doesn't. We choose someone we think we can control, or someone who controls us, mistaking that control as security but losing respect for one another and killing the relationship one rebellion at a time. OR we choose someone who is likely to avoid a relationship, and then we blame him (or her) for it, conveniently sparing ourselves from responsibility.

 

This is another way of saying we have a fear of failing at relationship, and that we believe we are likely to fail.

 

--

 

If we want to make different choices we have to change how we think.

 

Start by believing someone will choose to be with you. For you.

Then believe you will fail, and that is good Failure is a part of the path to success.

Finally, accept that you are imperfect, that you will fail at many things, and that you are worthy of whatever goals you have. You are worthy because you are a lovable, imperfect human.

 

It starts within you.

[Batya33]

Do you think these type of men know what they are doing? Or do u think their unavailability is on a subconscious level too? Because I throw out vibes that I am craving security and then they pull the rug out from under me right after. Sometimes its the same guy too over and over. I often wonder if they are conscious of what they do to me or they just see me as weak and someone to abuse.

 

They are making choices partly based on how you tell them to treat you. In general people move towards pleasure and away from pain. And really who cares if it's subconscious or conscious. All you need to know is his actions are consistent with someone who is interested in you as a person. The rest is just noise and overthinking and indulging in taking the focus of you -you are the only person you can control as to how you react to how you are treated.

[ClumsyGuy]

That is right out of the players handbook. David D'Angelo or Mistry comes to mind. I think it works on women who are addicted to emotional trauma and the 'come here/go away' dynamic.

 

On a side note: I recommend all women read the books from the two 'dating gurus' mentioned above. Its a real eye opener. These tactics, I assume would work well on anyone that lets a guy like Mandee describes hook them in emotionally.

 

It's true not just for dating and relationships, but also in terms of your career, friends, and general living. Scarcity does create value! But at the same time, if a person intentionally acts busy/scarce - it'll come off as fake in the long run. Guess the feeling of importance should come from within that helps you become attractive to everyone/everywhere.

[IAmFCA]

We choose to fail because we are afraid of being seen by someone else, we are afraid we will be rejected if someone sees us under a spotlight.

 

By trying to sort out someone's elses personality, we avoid having to look at our own. We keep our mate from focusing on us, too.

 

Everything else is a subset of this subconscious paradigm.

[thealchemist]

Well I think people choose failure prone relationships because they have a fear of rejection. It is a lot easier to be rejected in what was ultimately a fatally flawed relationship that being rejected from one that had the potential for being great.

 

Also in my opinion of guys I know they typically have some understanding of their emotional unavailability but it isn't obvious what it is wrong internally. So they have some slight understanding but not enough to be aware of the actual issue.

 

A lot of times we accept only the love we think we deserve. So why do you feel that you deserve these guys?

[ThatwasThen]

It's true not just for dating and relationships, but also in terms of your career, friends, and general living. Scarcity does create value! But at the same time, if a person intentionally acts busy/scarce - it'll come off as fake in the long run. Guess the feeling of importance should come from within that helps you become attractive to everyone/everywhere.

Yes... that goes to confidence and having an interesting life. It speaks of thinking of yourself as "the prize" and then others will see you as being a prize. When we believe we are the prize, then we quickly chuck people who do not treat us like we are one.

[Sportster2005]

Some people stop. Your decision.

[glitterfingers]

It doesn't matter how great you are as a person or partner, you are likely to encounter many bad relationships. I understand that you find yourself the common thread, but why does that mean you are the problem?

 

Obviously you have learned something from both relationships, so in my mind they didn't go nowhere. They have taught you to second guess and check in with yourself about whether you're staying with someone because you are getting something out of the relationship, or whether you're staying with someone because you're waiting for validation. You have gained a valuable perspective and lessons from your 'failed' relationships, so they weren't really failures after all. Relationships involve learning about yourself and how you relate to others, and if that occurs then a relationship is not a waste even if it ends. You've also learned that you have patience and that this is both a strength and a weakness - it's a strength for your future, more permanent relationship/s. It's a weakness if it means you wait too long with the wrong person

 

Just because someone doesn't choose you in the end doesn't mean they didn't choose/want you to begin with. Nobody can avoid such pitfalls and see into people's minds or into the future...that is asking for a degree of wisdom and perfection that no human being possesses

 

Forgive yourself for being human and reflect on what you've learned rather than where you went wrong

[mandeelove]

Thank you for your post. I am trying not to be hard on myself . It is true that every relationship is a lesson learned and the quality of being patient is not always a bad thing. Just depends on if the situation is positive .

[Jibralta]

Mandee, I haven't read through this whole thread yet, but I noticed you said this on another thread, and I think it would help you to question your beliefs about some things:

 

You had emotions with this guy and decided to do it again. Every women has done this before, including me. We reconcile with an ex and they hurt us again. But we could never really know until we tried it. So u tried it again and he hurt u.

 

This statement indicates that you expect men to be hurtful and untrustworthy in relationships. Otherwise, how could all women reconcile with exes who hurt them?

 

Another thing: it's not true that every woman has taken back a man who has hurt her. I would even venture to say that most women leave those men in the dust and don't look back.

 

And I do not treat anyone bad.

 

Actually, you treat yourself kind of bad by remaining in crappy situations when you know better.

 

Why would a person stay in situations like this? Im very loving, caring and understanding.

 

Loving, caring, and understanding to who? Not to yourself. To men who ignore you, hurt you, and run around on you? Is that how you prove your love? Why?

 

I am trying not to be hard on myself .

 

I don't think you realize this, but you are very hard on yourself already.

[katrina1980]

^Great post Jibralta.

[ThatwasThen]

Just because someone doesn't choose you in the end doesn't mean they didn't choose/want you to begin with. Nobody can avoid such pitfalls and see into people's minds or into the future...that is asking for a degree of wisdom and perfection that no human being possesses

Sorry and no disrespect intended but I couldn't disagree with that ^ more.

 

You don't have to have the ability to look into someone's mind to know, very early on what their intentions are. They show you clearly in their actions or lack of them that contradict their words. Words and actions need to match. Most people who are playing you will show their hand in the lack of value they show you within the first month of seeing you, or in a players case, grooming you. Greta saw but she chose to ignore every red flag that clearly indicated that she should dump this guy if not after the first red flag, then certainly when he showed her the second. Even from the very beginning of their second go at it the whole situation was a red flag because it was indeed a second go. One should not allow themselves to become vulnerable to someone they are giving a second chance to until they show in actions (and words that match) that they value, respect and want to be with you and only you. If they comeback under the same or very similar circumstances then chances are high that the same reason(s) for break up No.1 will result in breakup No.2

[katrina1980]

Sorry and no disrespect intended but I couldn't disagree with that ^ more.

 

You don't have to have the ability to look into someone's mind to know, very early on what their intentions are. They show you clearly in their actions or lack of them that contradict their words. Words and actions need to match. Most people who are playing you will show their hand in the lack of value they show you within the first month of seeing you, or in a players case, grooming you. Greta saw but she chose to ignore every red flag that clearly indicated that she should dump this guy if not after the first red flag, then certainly when he showed her the second. Even from the very beginning of their second go at it the whole situation was a red flag because it was indeed a second go.

 

------

 

One should not allow themselves to become vulnerable to someone they are giving a second chance to until they show in actions (and words that match) that they value, respect and want to be with you and only you. If they comeback under the same or very similar circumstances then chances are high that the same reason(s) for break up No.1 will result in breakup No.2

 

Second para, yes! Wholeheartedly agree.

 

First para, I could be wrong but I read glitter's response as meaning that, as time goes on and we get to know someone better, feelings can change.

 

A man (or woman if roles are reversed) could be very interested in someone initially, essentially "choosing' them, but then after getting to know better, for whatever reason, changed their mind/feelings and "un-chose" them.

 

It's pretty common actually.

 

That is how I interpreted what glitters said snyway, I could be wrong.

[ThatwasThen]

Second para, yes! Wholeheartedly agree.

 

First para, I could be wrong but I read glitter's response as meaning that, as time goes on and we get to know someone better, feelings can change.

 

A man (or woman if roles are reversed) could be very interested in someone initially, essentially "choosing' them, but then when getting to know better, for whatever reason, changed their mind/feelings and "un-choose" them.

yes of course but that scenario doesn't apply in this case of red flags a flying and gut feelings being ignored.

[katrina1980]

yes of course but that scenario doesn't apply in this case of red flags a flying.

 

Red flags from the beginning? Absolutely.

 

No excuse for a woman to be hanging around that, it typically does not get better.

 

Although I have heard of rare instances wherein the man improved his behavior (very very rare instances) and they went on to have a LTR, but not without many many ups and downs, disappointments, and eventual mutual understanding, on both sides.

 

My ex had a friend who was a bit of a sh** to a woman he was dating, and literally woke up one morn, realized what a sh** he had been and it was like Cupid struck him over the head or something, but since that day, he started treated her awesome and they are now married! Last I heard.