I Just Don't Get It

[katrina1980]

I know all the blame isn't on him.

 

But the truth is, I told him no, I told him to stop and even pushed his hands away. But he kept trying, so I gave in and went to the hotel with him willingly.

 

So, that's my own fault. I didn't want to, but I was too weak to walk away because I didnt want him to be disappointed.

 

 

Lots of lessons to be learned from this JM, just like with the last guy (previous thread).

 

Don't ever have sex with a man because you are afraid of disappointing "him." That may be one of the worst reasons to have sex.

 

You have sex when there is a strong mutual chemistry/energy and you BOTH want to and are comfortable with it.

 

If you find yourself becoming too attached after sex (generally speaking), which given your history it sounds like you do, then wait a bit to have sex and tell him why. If he bolts then so be it.

 

The reason why *I* am able to have early sex is because I don't get too attached to the outcome. Never have. I take it all one day at a time, and am patient enough to wait and see how it develops and where it leads.

 

I have low expectations and am able to handle whatever comes afterwards, including if he bolted.

 

Which ironically has never happened, probably because my attitude reflects my low expectations, so there is no "pressure" for either one of us. Which make it easier and "safer" to move closer. In fact, in my experience, it's usually the men who are pushing for more.

 

But that's me, not all women are like me, which is okay! You do you as should all women (and men).

 

Your self esteem appears to be at a real low JM, and these recent experiences only serve to lower it further.

 

My advice would be to take some time out. Figure out who you are, what drives you, what you want.

 

And then stay true to that. Stop compromising yourself, your values and trying to "please" men and doing things (like having sex) because you are afraid to "disappoint."

 

By doing so, not only are you compromising yourself, your values and personal integrity, but no matter how "cool" you try to be, men can sense this 'desperation' too and it will drive them away.

 

With this guy, the fact you kept saying no and he kept pushing, he sounds like a real creep, good riddance.

 

Yes you willingly went to the hotel, so that's on you, but given how you felt (uncomfortable) don't ever do that again.

 

Big lesson learned there, among other lessons, which I am still learning too, and probably always will.

 

Best of luck moving FORWARD!

[Batya33]

I know all the blame isn't on him.

 

But the truth is, I told him no, I told him to stop and even pushed his hands away. But he kept trying, so I gave in and went to the hotel with him willingly.

 

So, that's my own fault. I didn't want to, but I was too weak to walk away because I didnt want him to be disappointed.

 

You know how things become clearer as time passes? I'm starting to see what really happened.

 

I think he may feel bad for what happened. He even said he wished we didn't have sex.

 

So yes you knew there was a huge risk he wouldn't take no for an answer if you went to a hotel with him -of course if he had raped you it would still not have been your fault but I'm glad you're going to make safer choices in the future.

 

You do need to work on never ever having sex just so you don't disappoint someone you've just met. Especially with the STD and pregnancy risks.

[JustMizz]

It started in his truck. We went to the hotel after I gave in.

 

I don't even want to think about sex again. I know that's silly because it will come up, but I'm so tired of going through this.

 

I'm definitely going to avoid such situations again.

[Batya33]

It started in his truck. We went to the hotel after I gave in.

 

I don't even want to think about sex again. I know that's silly because it will come up, but I'm so tired of going through this.

 

I'm definitely going to avoid such situations again.

 

This doesn't have to do with sex. It has to do with how you choose to treat your body, whether it involves intercourse or touching or whatever.

[JustMizz]

This doesn't have to do with sex. It has to do with how you choose to treat your body, whether it involves intercourse or touching or whatever.

 

Yes. I need to work on my boundaries. I'm not one who really liked casual sex or groping.

 

I'm really trying to build my confidence and self worth. I'm sure those are the root of my issues.

[Tygerlyly53]

We're pretty much in the same boat JM. I know I need to build my confidence and self-esteem. When a man shows any interest in me, I get excited and then when it doesn't work out for whatever reason (usually after sex), I get so down on myself.

[Lolala]

I don't think it has anything to do with sex drive at all -just how you react to whatever your sex drive is. People choose reactions to strong feelings all the time - like choosing to back off when you're incredibly angry instead of lashing out. For example. I also think many women especially who make that choice early on are making it at least in part because of rationalizing "live in the moment" (which also doesn't mean you react by having sex too soon) and because they're afraid of losing the guy's interest. I think that is a gender thing more often.

 

And people who know they have a high sex drive avoid situations where it will be "that" difficult -just like people who are addicted to chocolate and need to give it up for some reason.

 

I don't think she was wrong to have sex -it's a balance - it just means a higher risk that the potential for a serious relationship goes way down - and of course there's the increased risk of STD and also pregnancy with someone you don't know well - but if it's that fun/exciting and they're single, who cares. Now she's second guessing and even blamed the guy at some point in this thread for "pressuring"her - to me that just leads to general bitterness/cynicsm about men which is never a good thing (and also basically lying to oneself).

So basically always be in public or with a chaperone? Better yet just don't date at all! I kind of feel like you have never been put in a situation like this based off the way you oversimplified all of that. I totally get what you are saying op. They don't take no for an answer but afterwards the blame is placed on us.

[Batya33]

So basically always be in public or with a chaperone? Better yet just don't date at all! I kind of feel like you have never been put in a situation like this based off the way you oversimplified all of that. I totally get what you are saying op. They don't take no for an answer but afterwards the blame is placed on us.

 

Never wrote or said that. I was always in public the first few dates -or almost always depending on who it was. The first time I would be in private I would talk to the person and be direct and polite about my boundaries -in advance -especially if I thought the invitation was because he thought we would go further than I was ready to. I've been in many situations where the chemistry was intense and I was very tempted. In those situations I followed my personal standards and values and not my hormones. That's what worked for me. If someone doesn't take no for an answer, you get up and leave -why in the world would you have sex with a person who behaved in that manner? And if the person forces himself on you that is not consensual sex, it is rape.

 

I dated for 24 years on and off. I was sexually assaulted (but not raped) twice and in both cases I wish I had made a different decision as far as being in private with that particular person at that time. I learned from that mistake and no I did not blame myself. But it was not consensual in the least.

 

I didn't oversimplify it -you made it too complicated. We are humans who can control our reactions to our feelings by making a choice as to how to behave. Including in sexual situations. If someone takes that control out of your hands by forcing himself on you, or by having sex with you when you're too drunk to consent, that is rape. If you choose to react to your feelings by having consensual sex ,that is your choice and yes it is that simple. And yes if afterwards you regret your choice to have consensual sex and "blame" the guy for pressuring you that's doing yourself a disservice because then instead of learning more about yourself and your boundaries you're playing the victim. It's also not fair to the guy, who is entitled to assume that if you consent you're fine with having casual sex.

[JustMizz]

Like I said, I don't fully blame him. I'm upset that he suddenly was all over me because I wasn't expecting it. I'm also upset that he kept trying when I said no.

 

That's about as far as my blame on him goes.

 

I am ashamed of myself for having sex with him. I'm sure he lost respect for me because I've lost some respect for myself.

[Batya33]

Like I said, I don't fully blame him. I'm upset that he suddenly was all over me because I wasn't expecting it. I'm also upset that he kept trying when I said no.

 

That's about as far as my blame on him goes.

 

I am ashamed of myself for having sex with him. I'm sure he lost respect for me because I've lost some respect for myself.

 

Oh yes he definitely acted disrespectfully. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

[Honeycomb8]

I have been in her shoes. I have a really high sex drive and when you feel close to somone it doesn't feel like it matters how long you have know them. To some 2 weeks is a really long time!... not too me but to many others.

 

Throw in the fact that the guy is pushing you and making it really hard to say no. It makes it even harder to resist

 

I don't think it's anything to do with sex drive. I have an extremely high sex drive and have never slept with anyone outside a relationship. If I gave in or went ahead.with everyone that wanted sex, my number would be 5 times higher easily. It's about thinking of consequences and not acting in the moment. Keeping a clear head and having strong boundaries will help a lot.

[katrina1980]

I don't think it's anything to do with sex drive. I have an extremely high sex drive and have never slept with anyone outside a relationship. If I gave in or went ahead.with everyone that wanted sex, my number would be 5 times higher easily. It's about thinking of consequences and not acting in the moment. Keeping a clear head and having strong boundaries will help a lot.

 

For me, I am able to live in the moment, but still think about consequences. Life is short, so if I meet a man and there is a mutual energy/chemistry (which is extremely rare when it happens as it goes way beyond just the physical) I am gonna go for it, and live with the consequences, whether they're positive or negative.

 

Knowing I'll be okay either way helps me takes more risks in that regard; no risk, no reward.

 

So far I've been pretty lucky in that respect; yes I have been dumped, but that's before sex and, in all but a few cases, I'm not all that into him either, so it's no big deal.

 

I also have a high sex drive but I am very discretionary about whom I choose to have sex with, and my drive is relative to how strong that mutual chemistry is.

 

Fortunately for me, my perceptive nature allows me to feel when it's mutual, and when it is, again I just go for it, again life is too damn short.

 

It's been working for me so not about to change things up now.

[Batya33]

For me personally the "life is short" rationalization didn't make much sense to me when it came to having casual sex because the consequences - including for me the emotional attachment- icky feeling - - which included a potential pregnancy (which I personally would not have wished to abort) and potential STDs/HIV would be the life shortening consequences so to speak. We all have our personal values and standards. I also think for many women who do the "life is short/go for it" justification they somehow in hindsight end up calling the guy a jerk when he doesn't get in touch again -not you -I get that you don't do that -but I've seen that way too many times -the self-dishonesty, blaming men, and resulting cynical attitude about men and dating.

[katrina1980]

I don't view sex as "casual," to me there is nothing "casual" about it. At least not the sex the men and I have.

 

For me, I won't even consider sex unless there is an emotional element attached to it, I get no pleasure from "casual" sex without emotion, I may as well be having sex with myself.

 

And that emotional element can happen the first night (like it did with my ex) or several dates in. And when it happens, it's usually fast.

 

And I live with the consequences, good or bad. So far, at least with respect to my sexual relationships, it's been positive, led to LTRs the majority of the time. And if not a LTR, a short term relationship, and when it ends, I always take away something valuable from having had the experience.

 

I don't expect you or anyone else to understand this, I know I am an anomaly, my opinions, feelings, emotions and actions way off the grid from what most women think and do, which is fine.

 

You do you, I do me and everyone else does what feels good and right for them.

[JustMizz]

In the past, I always had sex quickly and it led to LTRs.

 

I suppose that's where its getting to me. I know I need to change things up now.

 

And there was chemistry with him, don't get me wrong. I just didn't want to have sex so quickly because I knew what would happen.

[katrina1980]

In the past, I always had sex quickly and it led to LTRs.

 

I suppose that's where its getting to me. I know I need to change things up now.

 

And there was chemistry with him, don't get me wrong.

 

I just didn't want to have sex so quickly because I knew what would happen.

 

You knew what would happen? And what would that be?

 

If you expected a negative consequence, which it sounds like you did, then that my dear is called a "self fulfilling prophecy."

 

Try and think more positively. Your energy will reflect that positivity which may change the outcome.

 

Or maybe not, there are never any guarantees, and that holds true whether you have sex the first night or months later.

 

Ask most men. When they're really into you, when you have sex doesn't mean a hill of beans.

 

I KNOW many women will disagree with this, but it's true for many men. Many won't even consider a relationship until sex has happened.

 

I read tons of articles and books on this, talked to men in my meet-up group, read these forums and have five brothers, two with whom I am extremely close . I have also experienced it to be true in my own life, as reflected in my posts.

 

They all said the same thing. When they're into you, again it doesn't mean jack **** when you have sex.

 

If you are more comfortable waiting, by all means do so, but this BS about it allowing a man to develop feelings for you first, is a load of *.

 

I have women friends who have spent the better part of a year with a man before having sex, and after sex they STILL bolted.

 

So have many women, men don't have the market cornered on that. Yes it's confusing and hurtful, but that's dating and that's life.

 

If you're not willing to take the risk, then don't date.

 

Read books, and experience life. Pay attention to what's happening in your relationships and in the world around you.

 

Learn about men, how they think, feel and act. How they "fall in love."

 

It's completely opposite from how women feel and fall in love in most cases.

 

There is no wrong or right, we are just different. All we can do is try to understand each other; it makes for much better and more harmonious relationships, romantic and otherwise.

 

Accusing them of "using" women, or "only" wanting sex serves no good purpose other than distrusting men and making women bitter.

 

Frankly I'm tired of hearing about it.

[JustMizz]

I'm not trying to accuse him of anything. Just trying to explain everything.

 

I just felt that things were going to go this way as soon as he started being all over me. Maybe I was wrong, maybe I did cause it by my negativety. Who knows?

 

He said even if we hadn't of had sex, he would have come to the same conclusion about the distance. But he could have just been trying to make me (or himself) feel better.

 

At this point it's just a bunch of what ifs that are pointless. I hate how things ended up, I really do. He seemed seriously into me. He initiated most of the texts and calls. We really got along well and always had fun chata.

 

There was never any sexual talk, he seemed very respectful. Up until that moment when his hands were suddenly all over me during our first kiss. I was completely caught off guard, did not see that coming...and that's where my negative thinking started.

[katrina1980]

I'm not trying to accuse him of anything. Just trying to explain everything.

 

 

I know you didn't, but many women do, not just on this thread but others.

 

On other forums as well.

 

He "used" her for sex, he only wants one thing, never "spread your legs" until a man proves himself first, WTH.

 

It's become quite clear that such women don't trust men, so why even date at all with that attitude.

 

Anyway, I am off this thread, best of luck.

[reinventmyself]

I know you didn't, but many women do, not just on this thread but others.

 

On other forums as well.

 

He "used" her for sex, he only wants one thing, never "spread your legs" until a man proves himself first, WTH.

 

It's become quite clear that such women don't trust men, so why even date at all with that attitude.

 

Anyway, I am off this thread, best of luck.

 

I don't see anyone disagreeing with you. Confused about this response.

 

Where this guy was wrong (IMO) is it seemed like he may have known he didn't want to move fwd before he slept w her. He didn't tell her until after. Had she had known his intentions up front I suspect she likely would have chosen differently.

 

You yourself said you clarify expectations up front.

This is where these two went wrong.

 

It isn't about the war of the sexes.

It's not gender specific. I know just as many, or more fearful men.

 

It's about two individuals being transparent and respectful to each other. I'll also bet he knew she was hoping for more and for some their conscious would stopped them from bedding them.

 

I find it curious that you get passionately involved in this particular subject every time it arises. It makes me wonder how confident you are about your position. It feels like a crusade of sorts.

 

Everyone is allowed their differences.

 

Please know I luv you K.

Just couldnt resist speaking up.

[Honeycomb8]

Next time, I think it's always good to stay away from anyone that gets physical, or tries to get super touchy quickly. It's always more an indication when they overstep their boundaries.

 

It took my ex like 6 dates to kiss me. He was a good guy and what I really liked about him was even when we watched movies in his apartment (like on our 7th or 8th date?) and cuddled under a blanket on the couch, he didn't try to touch my legs or anything more sexual lol. Even when were kissing, he kept his hands very neutral. I loved that bc if he did get too handsy, it would have bothered me. I told him I wasn't going to do anything beforehand, and was originally really iffy about going over to his place, so I was glad he didn't try to 'change my mind'. Made me start to trust him alittle after that. The guy isn't too shy, have had flings and casual before, I guess it shows when a guy respects you and is into you enough, he'd control his behaviour.

 

So look at their actions. You should never feel bad or guilty or manipulated. You are special and deserve to be handled in that way.

[katrina1980]

I don't see anyone disagreeing with you. Confused about this response.

 

Where this guy was wrong (IMO) is it seemed like he may have known he didn't want to move fwd before he slept w her. He didn't tell her until after. Had she had known his intentions up front I suspect she likely would have chosen differently.

 

You yourself said you clarify expectations up front.

This is where these two went wrong.

 

It isn't about the war of the sexes.

It's not gender specific. I know just as many, or more fearful men.

 

It's about two individuals being transparent and respectful to each other. I'll also bet he knew she was hoping for more and for some their conscious would stopped them from bedding them.

 

I find it curious that you get passionately involved in this particular subject every time it arises. It makes me wonder how confident you are about your position. It feels like a crusade of sorts.

 

Everyone is allowed their differences.

 

Please know I luv you K.

Just couldnt resist speaking up.

 

Just came back to say thanks reinvent, and yeah I guess I do get off on tangents sometimes, but it's a sensitive subject for me, as like I said I am very tight with two of my brothers and they have been accused of some horrendous things, for simply thinking and behaving like men.

 

Granted one of my brothers has commitment issues, but he's still a very sensitive guy, maybe even more than most men, and the nastiness that has come from some of his ex's is appalling and disgusting.

 

So when I read it here on this forum and others (not on that level of course but even a little strikes a nerve), it just kinda gets to me sometimes.

 

Apologies, never meant to offend anyone.

 

Where this guy was wrong (IMO) is it seemed like he may have known he didn't want to move fwd before he slept w her. He didn't tell her until after. Had she had known his intentions up front I suspect she likely would have chosen differently.

 

 

I agree with you about that, but then again it may also be that before sex, he didn't think clearly enough about how the distance would affect him (and the RL), but after accomplishing his initial goal (sex), he had a chance to think about it more, and realized it wasn't going to work.

 

If that was the case, not saying it was right, but it's possible.

 

I don't know, it's all just speculation really.

 

Luv you too

[thorough]

He used you. Got what he wanted, and now he's done.

Don't be friends. I got the distance blow off too.

Only it took a year for him to do it.

 

Find someone who's worth your time. No contact. Delete him.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. He wants to stay friends to pacify you and maybe hit you up for sex again if nothing else pans out.

[Lolala]

I don't think it's anything to do with sex drive. I have an extremely high sex drive and have never slept with anyone outside a relationship. If I gave in or went ahead.with everyone that wanted sex, my number would be 5 times higher easily. It's about thinking of consequences and not acting in the moment. Keeping a clear head and having strong boundaries will help a lot.

Uh ...Ya same here. I don't sleep with every guy that wants to sleep with me either.

[JustMizz]

Well, we were still friends on Facebook all this time.

 

Yesterday I was feeling better and was posting happy stuff. I went and had a haircut and dye and posted a pic of my new do.

 

I woke up this morning to see that he unfriended me last night.

 

It stings a bit because I guess I was holding onto some hope that he'd change his mind. But, it's probably for the best.

 

Why would he wait all week to do it? Could it be he didn't like that I was actually moving on? Not in the sense that he wants me, but it wasn't feeding his ego? Could he have unfriended me as a way to rip the bandaid off?

[figureitout23]

It stings a bit because I guess I was holding onto some hope that he'd change his mind. But, it's probably for the best.

 

Why would he wait all week to do it? Could it be he didn't like that I was actually moving on? Not in the sense that he wants me, but it wasn't feeding his ego? Could he have unfriended me as a way to rip the bandaid off?

 

I mean anything is possible. But for the sake of moving in I'd say, he did it because he ended things.