figureitout23 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 So theyre coworkers? OP'er never answered my question about how they met. Link to comment
JohnDaredevil Posted August 29, 2017 Author Share Posted August 29, 2017 Hey abitbroken, you could just ask me instead of talking in 3rd person. I have been in many occasions out with female colleagues on a neutral basis. But in this case it was a date, just trust me (but of course you won't). I didn't steer her towards anything, the steering was completely mutual if not driven by her. Also, when i told her to break it off with her boyfriend, i really meant it as my sincere opinion. In fact, it's funny because what i actually said is really very close to your first sentence in quotes. I should have maybe made this clearer, i actually wasn't at all seeking to convince her to switch to me. I just think that she is unhappy, and she should find someone who makes her happy. As I wrote at length, i don't even think i am that guy. I also disagree with you that a playful kiss on the cheek is a reason enough for me to "need not to contact her again". I of course don't wish to bother her, but to try once to reconnect isn't a crime. You seem to be in defence of the woman in this case, which is of course fine. But a little perspective would be nice. She was the one to solicit this date and flirtation for months, not me. I just responded to it, not even knowing about the boyfriend situation until we were sitting at the picnic. So i don't think that my expectation to kiss is so completely insane. It is really not the first time that a woman in a relationship flirts with me. I know you won't believe that i don't encourage it but i actually don't. If you put yourself in my shoes for a second, i don't think that is respectful towards me. I might develop feeling and expectations which will regularly be disappointed (because i do not know beforehand of the boyfriend). I know you will say i shouldn't pursue them BUT I DON'T. I have met women who say that they prefer to be unhappy but in a relationship rather than alone. As a consequence, if they are unhappy, they flirt with someone else to get the excitement they are lacking in their relationship. This certainly happens also the other way round (from men to women). But regardless it is wrong and it would be nice if you saw that i could also be hurt in this, and not be simply the dominant macho man you picture in your head. This conversation is getting pointless, it is just about a moral assessment of me rather than actually trying to help me get this right. Link to comment
mustlovedogs Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 You didn't have a date, you disrespected her boundaries, and you're pursuing a taken woman. To make it right, you will back away. Link to comment
Sportster2005 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Hahaha, sorry i can't help but smile. I actually follow you up until the "respect boundaries, respect women", which is just so cute. If you had spent the smallest effort in reading the above, you'd actually see that i do respect women deeply, i just made a mistake, and precisely because i respect women, i'd like to make it right. And in all honesty, there are worst crimes that playfully kissing a girl on the cheek. But it's no point in me writing as you obviously have no interest in reading. I love how your sense of entitlement makes you feel totally allowed to jump into a conversation that has clearly already been solved and start lecturing. I am new to these forums, but i really see what some mean when they say the internet is filled with trolls who use it to cure their own issues. Hope something exciting happens to you and that you don't have to no longer seek to exist by lecturing others on internet forums wishing you the best, sincerely. Regardless of what of you say, you have demonstrated through your behaviour a lack of respect of women and boundaries. Your response to me, demonstrates an overall lack of respect, obviously women aren't your only target. Link to comment
figureitout23 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Johndaredevil ---HOW DID YOU TWO MEET???? Link to comment
abitbroken Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I also disagree with you that a playful kiss on the cheek is a reason enough for me to "need not to contact her again". I of course don't wish to bother her, but to try once to reconnect isn't a crime. You seem to be in defence of the woman in this case, which is of course fine. But a little perspective would be nice. She was the one to solicit this date and flirtation for months, not me. I just responded to it, not even knowing about the boyfriend situation until we were sitting at the picnic. So i don't think that my expectation to kiss is so completely insane. It is really not the first time that a woman in a relationship flirts with me. I know you won't believe that i don't encourage it but i actually don't. If you put yourself in my shoes for a second, i don't think that is respectful towards me. I might develop feeling and expectations which will regularly be disappointed (because i do not know beforehand of the boyfriend). I know you will say i shouldn't pursue them BUT I DON'T. I have met women who say that they prefer to be unhappy but in a relationship rather than alone. As a consequence, if they are unhappy, they flirt with someone else to get the excitement they are lacking in their relationship. This certainly happens also the other way round (from men to women). But regardless it is wrong and it would be nice if you saw that i could also be hurt in this, and not be simply the dominant macho man you picture in your head. This conversation is getting pointless, it is just about a moral assessment of me rather than actually trying to help me get this right. A "playful kiss on the cheek" when you are work colleagues and all her body language AND her mention of being in a relationship told you NOO. I don't picture you as a "dominant macho man" but a man who doesn't read people very well. All the other women here are telling you her body language and her words were telling you a kiss was unwelcome. It just sounded to me like her talk of being unhappy with her boyfriend was an invitation to you, or at least that is perhaps what she perceived you doing. Also, different cultures have different standards. People in Europe stand much closer, often lean in much closer to speak to people which could also be confused with intimacy. I agree with the others that its not a date -- she has a boyfriend! If indeed you were interested in her -- the "i've got nothing to lose kiss" is something you wouldn't have done - you would have heard she was in a relationship and you would have been a gentleman. You would have made no move on her unless months later she told you that they had broken up and she expressed actual interest in you. Also, just because she is an attractive woman in business doesn't mean she is looking for a man. Link to comment
fabact Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 You have to ask youself why you go for unavailable women. Im not blaming this on you. But there must be a part of you that likes that chase (usually stems from lack of something from parent) anyhow thats the bottom line. Dont focus on her. Focus on you. Why go out or entertain all this friend talk with a woman who is in a committed relationship? Thats the real question which often has to do with self esteem issues. Start saying no to these types of ladies and youll start seeing the available ones. Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 You have to ask youself why you go for unavailable women. Im not blaming this on you. But there must be a part of you that likes that chase (usually stems from lack of something from parent) anyhow thats the bottom line. Dont focus on her. Focus on you. Why go out or entertain all this friend talk with a woman who is in a committed relationship? Thats the real question which often has to do with self esteem issues. Start saying no to these types of ladies and youll start seeing the available ones. An excellent point. There is nothing that this picnic woman offers that actually for you, OP. It is a classic move of the intimacy avoidant. (Spoken by a lifelong avoidant!) Link to comment
Honeycomb8 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 The point of this entire post is not to claim that i did something right, but to admit that i did something wrong and try to find the best way to make it right. Nor does it have anything to do with anything whether there are guys better or worse, that is obviously subjective, totally off point, and quite frankly who cares. By the way, I didn't know she had a boyfriend going into the date. That came out as a surprise. I don't think this is the best behaviour on her side, either. But good for you that you are so self-righteous and judgmental! This must serve you well in life. To me, you just seem totally dull... Hope something happy happens to you Self righteous cos I don't mess with taken people? I'd gladly be dull then LOL. Remember, you tried to kiss her AFTER you found out about the bf. Your moral compass is wack bro. Link to comment
Honeycomb8 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 OP needs to stop justifying himself and grow the hell up. Projection at its finest. Link to comment
JohnDaredevil Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 You have to ask youself why you go for unavailable women. Im not blaming this on you. But there must be a part of you that likes that chase (usually stems from lack of something from parent) anyhow thats the bottom line. Dont focus on her. Focus on you. Why go out or entertain all this friend talk with a woman who is in a committed relationship? Thats the real question which often has to do with self esteem issues. Start saying no to these types of ladies and youll start seeing the available ones. Great point, thanks. Link to comment
JohnDaredevil Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 An excellent point. There is nothing that this picnic woman offers that actually for you, OP. It is a classic move of the intimacy avoidant. (Spoken by a lifelong avoidant!) Thank you IamFCA, great point as always Link to comment
JohnDaredevil Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 Regardless of what of you say, you have demonstrated through your behaviour a lack of respect of women and boundaries. Your response to me, demonstrates an overall lack of respect, obviously women aren't your only target. Just remember that respect is for those who deserve it, not for those who demand it. Link to comment
JohnDaredevil Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 Self righteous cos I don't mess with taken people? I'd gladly be dull then LOL. Remember, you tried to kiss her AFTER you found out about the bf. Your moral compass is wack bro. No, not self-righteous because you don't mess with taken people, but I won't bother explaining. And "dull" was just an attempt at being polite. Link to comment
JohnDaredevil Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 OP needs to stop justifying himself and grow the hell up. Projection at its finest. Look who's talking! Link to comment
JohnDaredevil Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 You didn't have a date, you disrespected her boundaries, and you're pursuing a taken woman. To make it right, you will back away. I totally disagree, and by the way so does she. You could at least bother to explain your statements. Link to comment
JohnDaredevil Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 An excellent point. There is nothing that this picnic woman offers that actually for you, OP. It is a classic move of the intimacy avoidant. (Spoken by a lifelong avoidant!) I just wanted to emphasise that I take your and fabact's point. I think that is why i am struggling with this a bit, because it has deeper ramifications than "does she want me or not". I actually followed your advice and contacted her politely. She says we had a really great time and was very positive. So nothing about disrespect or other things that self-proclaimed jesuses here lecture about. I am a little confused as to the next steps (for many reasons including the intimacy avoidance point you mention), but i definitely won't encourage this. Your point above is very valid. So case closed for me Thank you again for your help! Take care Link to comment
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