Had a first date and i think i blew it

[JohnDaredevil]

Hi all,

 

First off thank you in advance for your support and interest! I will try to be concise.

 

I am a 30-year old man, working in France. A female colleague from another office in Austria has been showing interest in me, at a few events, and then through chat. She is 31, very pretty, funny, sweet, quite direct. I didn't take the first step but always responded warmly, and we've had a good "virtual" dialogue for 2-3 months.

 

Over chat she told me she was feeling low. Eventually the opportunity presented itself for her to travel to Paris, where I work. She had to spend a couple of days here so we agreed that we'd meet up one evening. I took her out of town for a picnic.

 

During the picnic she explained to me that she has a 42-year old boyfriend, who already has a daughter and an ex-wife. This situation is heavy on her, she is annoyed of having to deal with the ex-wfe, and it doesn't feel special because her man tells her he doesn't have an urge to have a family with her, since he already has a daughter. Hence, she is questioning her relationship. During the picnic she also mentioned, a few times, that her age demands her to be with a man which wants children.

 

While talking to her, i started falling for her, which made me shy and tense. Also, her commitment talk added to my general nervousness. I have been in a relationship before which ended for that same reason (the girl was a few years older than i was and had the same concerns, so rather than postponing the discussion i felt it would be best not to take her time), and getting over it isn't by far one of the easiest things i've had to do.

 

As the evening progressed i was always warm and friendly but maybe sometimes wasn't as delicate and "wooing" as she maybe would have liked me to be. I told her quite directly that i thought she should end her current relationship, and made fun a few times (in a teasing way, not malicious) of her current boyfriend. I also didn't overly empathise when she complained about, e.g., having to catch an early flight or having to work when she got back to Austria...

 

This is not the first time I seem to attract a girl in a relationship, which is something i don't like because i find it unhealthy, it makes me feel like a fall-down option. I am looking for a girl that wants to be my friend and who doesn't see me as a transition or generally a means to an end.

 

After the picnic we went at my apartment, where we stayed for a couple of hours talking. I got a little drunk, and at one point, also knowing that she was leaving the next day and thinking that that's what she maybe expected me to do, while we were both laughing i asked her if i could kiss her. She replied "of course not", and I leaned in and kissed her on the cheek while she was slightly pushing me away with her arm. This happened again 1 more time roughly 15' later. I was generally joking and laughing, but couldn't help feeling a bit dumb... and i don't think she appreciated me "making a move", or at least the way in which i did it.

 

After that we chatted a bit more, at which point we started getting tired. After another 30' i accompanied her back to her hotel, close to where i live. She gave me a strong hug as a way of goodbye. The next day she went home, i texted her to thank her for a great evening. She replied saying that it was very nice, even though, in her words, i was quite "difficult". I found that cute and replied jokingly that i didn't think i was the difficult one, and a few other light-toned sentences wishing her a good end of the week. I do realise that this joking light-hearted tone isn't maybe what a woman who'd like to be seduced is expecting. In any case, no reply and no more communication since then, it's been 5 days now.

 

At this point I am a little confused: I like her, even more after this evening. But my head tells me that i am not the guy for her, as i need something easy and fun, before thinking about commitment (I realise this is selfish and convenient for me, but i do have my reasons... and i don't mean ages, just a year or so to get to know each other and see if it works). And anyway, I think i blew it, by being too direct, trying to kiss her too early or in a clumsy way, and too little wooing. I know how i am when i am truly wooing, and even wonder if, by being afraid of commitment-talk, i unconsciously sabotaged it.

 

What are your thoughts, in general? Did I blow my chances? Should I anyway just move on and forget about her, or should I hope to have more contact with her?

 

Thank you very much in advance! Hope this can also be of help to someone else!

[pippy longstocking]

During the picnic she explained to me that she has a 42-year old boyfriend,

 

you just carried on the story like this bit doesn't matter ...

[Kaykayxo]

OMG this is sooo typical male. You are thinking in your head it is some sort of date and she wanted to be seduced. The poor women is clearly very emotionally distraught and is in a whole relationship with another man. It seems to me she is more seeking a male friend or some kind of solace, advice she may not receive from a girl friend. She may feel more comfortable confiding in you as well because there are no ties or mutual friends I am guessing. She did not want you kissing her or making advances so why did you continue to try?

 

I mean if you want to be "that guy" and hang in there, prodding her to dump her current love and hope she will fall in love with you, go ahead. But to me she is just at a vulnerable state and needs somebody different to understand. I would NOT warp this into an oppurtunity to "seduce" anyone..

[Andrina]

So you think a woman who is taken and agrees to visit another man for a get together is good girlfriend material? If you had a gf, would you be okay with her doing this, and whining about you to another man?

 

Wow. You really have tunnel vision or a severe lack of life experience. Find a single woman who possesses good ethics. The risk of relationship survival will improve exponentially.

[JohnDaredevil]

Thank you very much Pippy, KayKay and Andrina for your replies. That's what i was looking for, honest feedback.

 

I fully accept your point Kaykay. However, I cannot help but think that it is a little naive of a girl to go out with a man, for a picnic, chat with him for weeks, and expect that the guy won't build up any "romantic" expectation, that he will just treat her as a friend in need for advice. If your man were to have extensive conversations with another woman, would you be okay with that? Would you think, "they are only talking, he is just seeking solace"? But I do agree, that would have been the much more mature thing to do from me.

 

And i didn't mean "seduce" in a pejorative way, I just meant in the sense of courting. I was not trying to be macho, I truly respect women and in all honesty would much rather see companies, governments, institutions run by women than by men. We would certainly have much less pain in the world if that were the case.

 

The reason for me behaving this way, if i can say, is more defensive than me being a jerk at my core. I have had more than a few women coming to me, all in relationships, seeking for solace as you rightfully write Kaykay. And i always behaved as a gentleman (and I believe this applies to many men). But it becomes truly painful to deal with women giving mixed signals and involved in other relationships, who actively seek you even though you don't encourage that, or mildly so by being reasonably nice. So becoming a bit more clear about what is actually going on is my defensive mechanism, "calling the bluff" if you will. But I have a feeling you will disagree with this, and just tell me to find a decent girl.

 

Andrina, you are right about my tunnel vision and lack of life experience. I don't think however, she has terrible ethics, i do not know her situation so well and tend to think that Kaykay has a point when saying that she is emotionally distraught. But maybe this is totally naive.

 

So now i am still confused but at least have some food for thought... I think i will simply write to her to apologise and explain a little, and leave it at that. Unless you think this is inappropriate?

 

Thank you again!

[IAmFCA]

The kiss, the slight stiff arm, the second kiss, the lack of communication since she has been back home: I think she was genuinely grateful to talk to you as a friend and now has withdrawn to ensure she doesn't further mislead you into thinking she is interested in something romantic.

 

I am sorry -- i just don't think its there for her with you (nor for her with this other fellow, but that is not relevant).

[akrngrl]

I got a little drunk, and at one point, also knowing that she was leaving the next day and thinking that that's what she maybe expected me to do, while we were both laughing i asked her if i could kiss her. She replied "of course not", and I leaned in and kissed her on the cheek while she was slightly pushing me away with her arm. This happened again 1 more time roughly 15' later.

 

Am I reading this right? You asked to kiss her, she said "no" while stiff arming you, and you tried anyway...twice?

 

I apologize if I'm misreading that, but if that is indeed what happened she set a boundary and you not only crossed it, but blatantly disregarded her words.

[IAmFCA]

When you say you would write to her and apologize... it depends how you say it. Perhaps something such as

 

Forgive me for taking our friendship in a more romantic direction. If I promise to abandon those ideas, might we return to our usual camaraderie?

[JohnDaredevil]

Am I reading this right? You asked to kiss her, she said "no" while stiff arming you, and you tried anyway...twice?

 

I apologize if I'm misreading that, but if that is indeed what happened she set a boundary and you not only crossed it, but blatantly disregarded her words.

 

Yes you are reading this 200% right. Maybe the only difference is that I asked to kiss her on her lips but only kissed her on her cheek, but i guess you understand that.

 

I fully agree i did something stupid, that is the whole point of this post. If you have any constructive idea on how to fix this, it would be welcome.

[figureitout23]

Why did this meet happen? Sounds like she probably wanted comfort and figured she could use you to get that comfort. Most women aren't oblivious to whether or not a man is interested in her so the fact that she met up with you, alone, went out for a picnic and then back to your place... she knew what she was doing... she's in a relationship and traveling to see a single man for advice? That's not normal behavior...

 

Maybe try to learn to recognize when someone is using you. And avoid women in relationships, and learn to not be so forward with the kisses. It's ok to wait.

[JohnDaredevil]

Yes I was thinking of writing her something along the lines of what you suggest. Not to try to "reconquer" her but just to "make peace" and explain.

 

As we were out, she complimented me very much, in many and very nice ways, and i of course returned. It's just as the evening got long, that her mood got a bit gloomier, she seemed a bit tired, i could see she had deep thoughts and in some moments had a "1000 miles" stare. That is when i fully realised how beautiful she was. I know i am an idiot, and understand that when you mess up it's better sometimes to just let it be, we all mess up. But some other times it's worth trying to do something about it.

 

Do you really think it's not there for her and me?

 

I do not say that it would be a good idea anyway, if anything because we live far apart. And because she seems quite urged on commitment. But i did develop some feelings...

[JohnDaredevil]

Thank you figureitout23. I think you understand the situation. That is why i was forward with the kisses, it was my way of saying "let's make clear what this is", because i am uncomfortable with "games". Is this messed up?

 

Yes, I will learn to recognise when I am being used. Or at least ask her to make her intentions clear...

[IAmFCA]

Yes I was thinking of writing her something along the lines of what you suggest. Not to try to "reconquer" her but just to "make peace" and explain.

 

As we were out, she complimented me very much, in many and very nice ways, and i of course returned. It's just as the evening got long, that her mood got a bit gloomier, she seemed a bit tired, i could see she had deep thoughts and in some moments had a "1000 miles" stare. That is when i fully realised how beautiful she was. I know i am an idiot, and understand that when you mess up it's better sometimes to just let it be, we all mess up. But some other times it's worth trying to do something about it.

 

Do you really think it's not there for her and me?

 

I do not say that it would be a good idea anyway, if anything because we live far apart. And because she seems quite urged on commitment. But i did develop some feelings...

 

You already were friends and then in her presence you were attracted; next time, close off that part of your thinking so that a woman (the next friend-zone woman) may be beautiful and friendly etc and yet you see her as a person first and a beautiful female second. In this case, I do not think she has intentions towards you, else she would communicate. But I do like your idea of a bridge-building message, if you keep it short and narrowly focused. And then be prepared to reinvest in this correspondence slowly, even if she is fast. Measure your attentiveness so that it is clear you are true to your word and being friend-like.

[JohnDaredevil]

I'll do that, thanks IAmFCA. Wish me luck

 

If you have any more thoughts, they are welcome.

[IAmFCA]

I'll do that, thanks IAmFCA. Wish me luck

 

Best of luck to you JD!

 

A little enthusiasm and maybe a bit of objectification got in your way, even so you seem sincere and well meaning. Kindness wins eventually -- including to yourself. Withdraw gently - even if just for a few days - if it feels uncomfortable.

[Hollyj]

First date??? She has a bf. If you want a serious gf, then stop hitting on women who are involved with others.

 

Dude, you have some serious boundary/character issues. After she tells you she is involved with someone else, you forcibly try to kiss her, twice. How would you like someone to do this to your gf?

[Hollyj]

OMG this is sooo typical male. You are thinking in your head it is some sort of date and she wanted to be seduced. The poor women is clearly very emotionally distraught and is in a whole relationship with another man. It seems to me she is more seeking a male friend or some kind of solace, advice she may not receive from a girl friend. She may feel more comfortable confiding in you as well because there are no ties or mutual friends I am guessing. She did not want you kissing her or making advances so why did you continue to try?

 

I mean if you want to be "that guy" and hang in there, prodding her to dump her current love and hope she will fall in love with you, go ahead. But to me she is just at a vulnerable state and needs somebody different to understand. I would NOT warp this into an oppurtunity to "seduce" anyone..

 

No! Not typical male. You should not generalize. Most men are much better than this!

[figureitout23]

Where did you guys meet JohnDareDevil?

[IAmFCA]

First date??? She has a bf. If you want a serious gf, then stop hitting on women who are involved with others.

 

Dude, you have some serious boundary/character issues. After she tells you she is involved with someone else, you forcibly try to kiss her, twice. How would you like someone to do this to your gf?

 

I wouldn't characterize it that harshly, but I agree and so does he that he ignored her protest.

[Honeycomb8]

She lacks boundaries and her decision to go on a picnic with you was really wrong.

You on the other hand seem to forget that she's TAKEN, so why kiss her?

She said no, and you kept trying?

 

Jeez get a grip.

[JohnDaredevil]

No! Not typical male. You should not generalize. Most men are much better than this!

 

Hi Holly, I do not think you took the time to read what has been written, otherwise you'd see that what is being discussed is a tad more complicated than how you put it, and that your concerns are being addressed. But thank you for your contribution anyways, and for your faith in men!

[JohnDaredevil]

I agree, and that's the whole point of this post. You are just repeating something obvious that I already know, which is why i wrote in the first place. Just have a look at was has been written above, i think you'll see it addresses and discusses your comments. Thank you for sharing your thoughts

[Honeycomb8]

Hi Holly, I do not think you took the time to read what has been written, otherwise you'd see that what is being discussed is a tad more complicated than how you put it, and that your concerns are being addressed. But thank you for your contribution anyways, and for your faith in men!

 

 

Regardless of whether it's 'complicated' or not, the fact of the matter is a girl with a boyfriend went on a picnic with you and complained/confided in you. You knew she had a bf, you still proceeded to try to get physical with her.

 

That's just wrong. So yes, a lot of guys are better than that.

[Sportster2005]

Yes you are reading this 200% right. Maybe the only difference is that I asked to kiss her on her lips but only kissed her on her cheek, but i guess you understand that.

 

I fully agree i did something stupid, that is the whole point of this post. If you have any constructive idea on how to fix this, it would be welcome.

 

There's nothing to fix. Apologize and leave her alone. Learn from this. Respect boundaries, and respect women.

[abitbroken]

actually, it is not odd for two work colleagues to meet while one is in town - it could be at a cafe or actually a picnic would be okay - particularly if one lives near a famous park like Boston Public Gardens, etc, or the other person is from a stuffy city and is now visiting a place with more greenery. I have done it where i have taken a colleague to eat somewhere totally different than they would see in their city. In my area, taking a picnic to a historic farm or at a seaside spot. What is the problem is that her interest in him was probably networking and friendship and he assumed because she is beautiful that it was a date. Or he may have been the one to steer her towards a picnic, and therefore it was not the result of her steering.

 

Yup, you need to either not contact her again, or if you talk to her, only talk about business - do not limit her ability to conduct business with your branch because you blank her.

 

I think it was out of line to tell her to break it off with her boyfriend - in that case you should have steered the conversation away "i can relate to that because i had a relationship break up for a similar reason. But i am just a guy. maybe a woman would give you better advice about that". or better yet "i am sure you will make the best decision for you".