Almost 8 weeks of NC and counting...

[drpenguin]

Hi all, not really sure where to post this, there's so many forums that relate to my situation that I'm not sure where to post this.

 

But in short... I want to reconcile with my ex girlfriend. The long? Well she's with someone else now

The ugly...? This all could've been prevented if I could've learned to get my head out of my ass.

 

How's that for an opener?

 

Anywho, long story long... My ex was my best friend for 14 years. We never started dating until about 4 years ago. We approached the relationship with some caution since I was at the time really playing the field, and she was thinking about settling down with someone. But as luck might have it we tumbled into bed each other slightly inebriated and well we finally broke sexual tension. It was nice year and half but ultimately she called it off since I wasn't ready to commit. It was a mutual split since we both understood that we wanted different things. We still remained best friends for two years afterwards until we inevitably wound up tumbling into bed together again in August, 2016. After having the morning after talk our issues were still there I still didn't feel like I was ready to settle down, and well now that she was in her early 30s she wanted to start a family. I stupidly told her "well, I don't think it's fair for you to wait for me, but if you want to keep having fun with me, how 'bout we have an open relationship in case some guy who can provide you with what you want comes a long, and I won't be in the way." She agreed. Though for all intents and purposes we were rather monogamous with each other for 10 months. Towards the 6 month point, many times she asked me to change my mind, in which I stubbornly said I was not ready to settle down with anyone, and it'd be unfair to her if I lead her on if we went monogamous. She started going on internet dates, which I casually ignored, most of them being rather horrible for her which caused her to want to be with me even more. Honestly I was rather narcissistic about the situation. I had dated to here and there but ultimately started gradually feeling bad, knowing that she really just wanted me. Damn change of heart.

 

She called it off on the 12th of may. We hugged each other for a bit, and when kissed her one last time, she burst into tears, promptly needing to leave then. I sat there thinking about the split up for a week I started to think, well she is my best friend, we have a blast together, and we were blissfully happy together as long as she wasn't anxious about the future. I had a change heart and figured, yeah, well let's make this work! I called her up and told her that I had thought and that we should take the next step in our relationship.

 

She cried immediately. She told me I had 4 years to make up my mind, and ultimately in the last year I kept pushing her away and she wanted to get closer to me. And ultimately she had finally met someone during our open relationship time and "starting to have feelings for him" and "it didn't take him 14 years for him to want me." She hung up mid conversation to blow her nose ultimately to text me back "I'm upset right now, I don't want to talk. If you truly love me, you'll give me space"

 

I was crushed. I was very tempted to blow up her phone the next day and etc. But I remembered doing that to girls in the past and not having that work. Google lead me to NC so I started that right away along with the gym, hanging out with new friends, doing all the moving on stuff. I've talked to Craig Kenneth from youtube, who basically told me to Go NC indefinitely until she reaches out, stating she's with a new BF, what is talking to her going to do?

 

In the past, I've been usually good to letting go of my casual flings. But I really messed up with my Best friend, and should've known better than be casual with a girl who's been crazy about me for 4 years, and known me for 14.

 

This Wednesday will be 8 weeks of NC, and ultimately I feel like I'm pulling my own strings, hoping she might return, we meant a lot to each other after all. Other than that one phone call and a simple "ok" text to reply for her request for space I haven't made any attempt to reach out or beg since then. no facebook stalking, no nothing. I've been seeing counseling to deal with my commitment issues and "work on myself" but... I sometimes question whether staying in no contact really is the way to go. I've been tempted to reach out, but disciplined myself telling myself, this is the best chance I got to get her back. I would marry this girl in a heartbeat and give her a family if given another chance, but I think I've really missed the boat.

 

I've got great buddies who support me and forcing me back into "the game" and I know in the past once I've moved on and get my natural charisma back I'll have a new girl reasonably easy. But I find myself not wanting too...

 

Thanks for the support.

[eidetic]

Sooo... You'd marry her in a heartbeat, because she's with some other guy?

 

Give this some major thought. If you've looked at rings, know how you will support her while she's pregnant with your children, how you will split the housework and bills or cover all of that when she is exhausted from carrying the baby full term, then from being up every two hours or so 24/7 nursing a newborn? If you have a house, a good job, health coverage, a car? Ok, so far, so good.

 

"Friends" who help keep you "in the game" aren't going to lend well to family and marital harmony. Not for the twenty or so years it takes to launch a child all the way to its own adulthood. Great buddies who support and force you to forget and override your priorities, sound like trouble.

 

If Craig Kenneth told you to stay NC indefinitely until she reaches out, I'm not sure what kind of women he knows. To give this woman what she wants -- marriage, family, children -- you are going to have to be pretty clued in to her needs, and be proactive. Imagine what would happen in that marriage if you, her husband, did nothing for your wife, your best friend, *indefinitely, until she reached out*.

 

What is so great about "the game" that you preferred it to what she wanted? I don't mean it harshly; I'm curious. What she has wanted from you can become a thorough reality with someone else. For both of you, really. Maybe she loves in the way that is willing to work through all the history of you essentially telling her no, but maybe she loves in the way that can handle a clean slate with someone who says yes to her from the start.

 

We all say yes and no to our most beloved loved ones; it happens, we say it, we say the wrong thing. We resist the other's needs and desires and dreams because they conflict with our own, or we don't feel like it, or something about it feels like pressure or is just irritating, or we simply do not understand how important it is to them, and how important they are to us, and why.

 

Half the time, we can figure this all out with time and silence and some serious self reflection. But other times, the only way to understand is to dialogue with the other person.

 

Maybe Kenneth is right and you can wait her out with self work and self improvement. But if you stay NC indefinitely, and she knows your friends are supportive or forceful about keeping you in the game, it's possible you'll lose this woman. Not saying you have to ditch the coach or the team, but think about what she wants, what you want, and whether the present mindset and support structure actually support what you're after. She wanted you to be her team.

 

When a woman is talking about marriage and family, often she means she wants top spot with you. Think about how you show love to her. Reliability is one way. Being proactive in attending her needs and fulfilling them is another. Fidelity is a pretty big one. You need to be trustworthy, and you need to be able to be immediately and reflexively serious.

 

The switch from casual player to marriage and family man may be an adjustment for you. Be real about this, because you are talking about a life commitment, and it's not something to be decided or done in a heartbeat, as much as I do understand your phrasing and sentiment and have said it myself.

[drpenguin]

I thank you for your input, eidetic. I've seen your name when I've casually browsed the forums and it appears you've helped quite a bit of people with their issues, So I thoroughly thank you for your input in my situation.

 

I'll be honest I started goin all playerish about 5 years ago when I was hurt by my second gf. I did the classic "nice guy" things, got boring and complacent and ultimately we broke up. About this time was when I started going out with my buddies and decided to be a player as well to heal the trauma. I've realized this was a double-edged sword in the process because it did make me bold and take more chances with the ladies, but unfortunately didn't resolve my issues with trusting people in general hence my preference for casual relationships, as opposed to deep and meaningful ones. Ironic how the thing that allowed me to start a relationship with my ex, was what wound up dooming it as well, figures. And yes I became 30, so although the player lifestyle has been fun, it does wear on you. And honestly staying home with her and just chilling has been more fun than going out with the boys.

 

Yes the jealousy sucks. But I didn't realize she was seeing someone else until after the telephone call. I had called her up to discuss having a future together with her and that's when she told me about the other guy. Honestly I should've told her this a month or two earlier, but well I'll admit, "you don't know what you have until you lose it." I've been telling myself that's one of the reasons that it hurts that much as it does, and that time will heal this wound like it has the others.

 

As far as future planning, to address that concern, I do very well for myself in terms of income and resources to raise a family, so that wouldn't be an issue (very valid thing to bring up).

 

There are a lot of Breakup gurus out there and I've read some of their stuff, and raise quite a bit of eyebrows to many of them. What was appealing about Craig's stuff is that he's actually a psychotherapist in Florida (I looked up his credentials) which made me trust him more. He emphasized that in my times of anxiety I easily will become self-centered to my wants and wishes and become unempathetic to her wishes. Namely I'd be demanding comfort from her, while she has requested space. Which is why he recommended to continue NC until she reaches out to me (like you suggested, it respects her decision and gives her time to sort out her own emotions). If she reaches out of course, then I know for certain she's ready to talk to me (not necessarily about reconciliation, but ready to talk) Furthermore her new relationship rebound or not needs to run through its course without my interference. Which he theorized if she really is still attached to me she'll reach out then. "We are attracted to what is familiar" as he would say.

 

Honestly if I were in her shoes, I would do the exact same thing. I would see how this new fling would work out. So his advice seems to make sense to me even though there are urges to do SOMETHING.

 

I understand deciding to spend the rest of your life with someone is a huge ordeal. Which is why I'm trying to keep a level head on me and work on myself and keep myself calm and avoid begging, pleading, or otherwise. And the reason I had a change of heart from being a player to considering her to be the one is because she was my best friend and the way she loved me, was very different. Almost maternal affection which is very different from other girls. Yes, if we got back together we'd have to take it slow, make sure we sill had the same level of trust and intimacy that we had developed over the past decade and a half before marriage. I understand we're going to need to work on any of our lingering trust/commitment issues. I'm actively seeing a counselor twice a week for that reason, because if I ever get another chance, I want to be ready, as opposed to another statistic. So I'm doing all those "moving on" things with a glimmer of hope that my improved sense of self, life-style, charisma etc. will be enough for her to really reconsider a chance.

 

You're right, odds are things would never work out. Odds are she'll simply move on. Odds are I'll prolly just move-on. But when you have an intimate history for 14 years, and deep down you feel it's special and unique (odds are could be post-break up blues), you'll fight. Even if fighting really is gritting your teeth and do nothing and work on yourself in the meantime.

 

And I figure as long as I stay in NC, the odds of me doing or saying something stupid drastically goes down.

 

Again appreciate the insight, and blunt response. It did make me think a bit about whether I should even be considering hope. I really do think I have the capacity to change here, so it's always good to get a dose of reality to either reaffirm what I'm doing or reject it.

[WaitTilMarch]

As someone who has been on the other side of this in the past, I think you should write her a short email with absolutely no pressure, just apologizing and wishing her well and not asking for her back. Explain that you were wrong and why and that you realize it is too late, but you want her to know that you appreciated her friendship and truly care and hope the best for her.

 

Go no contact after that, completely. If she still feels something for you, she will pop up again after that. As you left it now though, you gave no relief to the stress of the previous situation. You have to give her an no-pressure indication that the situation has changed and then completely let it go.

[Bart Barterson]

One important thing I learned is that you can't ever put the pieces back together such that the thing is whole again.

 

Once things break down between you and a woman, they can never be repaired fully.

 

There is always that memory, that breakdown in trust, or something else that comes to her mind. She'll never fully be able to be herself around you because she'll be haunted by that memory.

 

My advice is to move on. It's hard, but you have to focus your energy onto a new woman. Life is hard and this is part of it. There is no fairytale.

[Rustysuit]

I agree with one last email or text or call or whatever just saying you understand her reasons and that you f*ed up and you're sorry. Keep the door open for HER to come back.

 

Don't beg, plead or try to change her mind in a lost puppy way. Just say that, you were an*hole and you see that now, but you hope she'll be happy even if not with you, but that you love her and want to be with her.

 

Go NC after that and whatever comes, comes.

[eidetic]

OP, thank you for your thorough response. I have to admit to you that I am here because I am on the other side of a somewhat similar situation, so when I responded to you last night, I know some of it was pretty sharp. I apologize for coming off harshly.

 

One thing to consider here is that this isn't a fly-by relationship you are talking about, so typical NC advice may not apply. After 14 years of connection, I don't think it sounds reasonable to stay NC indefinitely. That's a huge loss for you both. Part of my heat last night was that even a psychotherapist is not qualified to say what is the best or "sanest" approach for any relationship partner to take. There are general human or relational truths, but it's our own individual heart and couplehood that should decide what path or pace to take. Don't let any paid (or unpaid) advice prevent you from doing what feels right to do. Take some time to listen to your own heart wisdom, then make your own path.

 

My reason for the "are you really prepared" is that I am seeing in my own circumstance that my person is still struggling with it, and to my surprise, so am I. In ways I wouldn't have even noticed except with the distance and silence of NC. Our situation is different from yours but the element of some noncommittal history is an issue for us too. Our NC (which he breaks) is needed while I work through my pain about that without blaming him for it. I am not seeing anyone, and won't, but because of the history, I am NC to protect myself from any hint that he is.

 

We all do have capacity for change, and we all do change. But, for any people who don't want to change, or have trouble or shame about somehow being "not good enough" as-is, this can all be looked at as acquiring new skills and competencies. Maybe that makes it more quantifiable, easier somehow.

 

Odds are that after 14 years of intimate history, she and your relationship ARE special and unique, and that it *isn't* just post breakup blues making you think so. I don't have any answers on how many days or months to observe NC, but will just tell you that I hope you will trust your own heart on this and follow through with her when it seems right and timely to do so. If she is a woman who does not initiate, or who takes no for an answer, she may not contact you, although with 14 years of knowing each other, I don't see how she wouldn't.

 

The thing is, if she wanted more all this time and you said no until just recently, if you make her initiate, she is at risk of being told no again and knows it. Even if she initiates and you say yes, that still is her petitioning you, and your "yes" may be at any point retroactively assumed to have been given almost out of boredom or curiosity. Don't make her work for your yes. It's almost like in order to right the balance here, it's solely up to you to pursue, propose dialogue opportunity, provide both answers and listening, and if it works well, propose (and do it right, and only you and she know what that means). If you've been elusive until now, but know you are ready to commit and to give this relationship your all, you will have to lead. It means risk for you, but it also means risk for her, and she knows it. This isn't to say the odds are against you. If you have 14 years, you have a lot in your favor. But you will likely have to prove it consistently and every chance you get.

 

I am rooting for you. Thank you again for ongoing dialogue.

[drpenguin]

I agree with one last email or text or call or whatever just saying you understand her reasons and that you f*ed up and you're sorry. Keep the door open for HER to come back.

 

Don't beg, plead or try to change her mind in a lost puppy way. Just say that, you were an*hole and you see that now, but you hope she'll be happy even if not with you, but that you love her and want to be with her.

 

Go NC after that and whatever comes, comes.

 

I have considered writing a letter. She's sorta an old school romantic and may give me brownie points for using old school letters. Though I have gotten conflicting ideas that perhaps now's not the best time for contact in general since her mind is totally pre-occupied with her new fling (I'm being presumptious of course since I've muted her out of my life). Analysis paralysis as they say.

 

As you left it now though, you gave no relief to the stress of the previous situation. You have to give her an no-pressure indication that the situation has changed and then completely let it go.

 

I was wondering if you can articulate on this, I got confused... I think you meant that I need to tell her that I would be open to have a committed relationship with her, which I thought I told her over the phone. Granted things got really emotional between the two of us which might've effected the exchange.

 

My advice is to move on. It's hard, but you have to focus your energy onto a new woman. Life is hard and this is part of it. There is no fairytale.

 

Fortunately it seems that the steps of moving on is similar to the step of reconciliation. And ironically it's easier to motivate yourself to do all the moving on things if you think it might help to get her back. Regardless if she doesn't, then well I'd be doing pretty well for myself anyway I suppose.

[WaitTilMarch]

I do not think you should tell her over the phone because. A letter can give her time to think, to think back on happy memories. She won't be under pressure to answer right away. I think if she feels any pressure at all, you will get the wall. I think you should write the letter from a perspective of - as much as I'd love to change my past behavior and have another chance w/ you, I understand that probably isn't possible - just know that I will always love you.

 

Even if she is w/ another guy, whenever they have an argument or something, she can look back at the letter and the seed may start to take root.

[drpenguin]

So I've decided to write a letter. I don't know if I'll ever send it, but based off some advice I've gotten here and through some dating coaches, it seems like something that at least I should consider working on.

 

I am getting out there and having fun, and my life has changed drastically since the break, so a part of me definitely questions whether reaching out is good for me right now. I still miss her like crazy, but considering she's not even single, and haven't bothered reaching out is rather telling about my situation.

 

Nonetheless she was (is?) my best friend and I know deep down I was the one who drove her away. It wasn't like she cheated on my since I gave her a carte blanche ok "see other people, I'm not going to settle down now, so don't wait for me." I know genius.

 

Karmically I do hope that we just need to play this phase of our lives out and if there is a higher power, it's just a test to see how much we really do mean to each other. So rock on times. Sort of reminds me of Lew Ashby in Season 2 of Californication. Crazy ass rock star who basically built his castle and kingdom, had his groupies, but ultimately just wishes for the one that got away to return.

 

It wouldn't be a bad life waiting like a rock star buuut... we'll see.

[Viewcart]

Wait does she have a boyfriend or just dating exclusively? How serious is she with this guy?

 

A letter is lovely, this is actually the perfect time to send a letter after 8 weeks. I can PM you what to write in the letter that I learned from a therapist if you want to really polish it.

 

Honestly this girl put up with so much of your crap I don't know many women who would be so patient/naive. She did waste a good portion of her youth waiting for you. Good for you for coming into your senses, better late than never.

 

My outlook is this, if the person is not married or dead, there's always a chance. She's definitely still attached to you otherwise she wouldn't have cried. But now she's scared that you'll hurt her again and you have to do everything you can to regain her trust so that she knows you're the real deal and not playing.

 

You sound just like my ex, he was also hurt by his ex gf and decided that being player will somehow make him better when I've told him that he's only hurting himself by pushing me away. But I understand that with guys like you, it takes life experience to change. No amount of love or persuasion from a good woman can make you see light. I hope my ex will come to his senses when he hits the big 3 O as well

[drpenguin]

Wait does she have a boyfriend or just dating exclusively? How serious is she with this guy?

 

A letter is lovely, this is actually the perfect time to send a letter after 8 weeks. I can PM you what to write in the letter that I learned from a therapist if you want to really polish it.

 

Honestly this girl put up with so much of your crap I don't know many women who would be so patient/naive. She did waste a good portion of her youth waiting for you. Good for you for coming into your senses, better late than never.

 

My outlook is this, if the person is not married or dead, there's always a chance. She's definitely still attached to you otherwise she wouldn't have cried. But now she's scared that you'll hurt her again and you have to do everything you can to regain her trust so that she knows you're the real deal and not playing.

 

You sound just like my ex, he was also hurt by his ex gf and decided that being player will somehow make him better when I've told him that he's only hurting himself by pushing me away. But I understand that with guys like you, it takes life experience to change. No amount of love or persuasion from a good woman can make you see light. I hope my ex will come to his senses when he hits the big 3 O as well

 

Yeah I would love to see this letter template of yours. Any insight would be great!

 

You're right, I always simply made an excuse that I told her the truth from the beginning that I wasn't the settling down type. But what I should've known from the beginning was that she was, and she would definitely want too settle down with someone she felt she loved. And she tried to change my mind, even if I was being a total douchebag. I don't know the specifics of her relationship but I know her as a monogamous type at heart and would not simply date around, she'd only spend time with someone she really likes.

 

And honestly if it wasn't for the fact that she was my best friend for so long before we got together AND put up with my crap and nearly begged to have me reconsider, I probably would've shrugged my shoulders and casually told myself NEXT! (Done that so many times in the past, I've lost count.)

 

Lemme give you some insight of the "players" mind if they were born from past trauma. I enjoy women, but I don't enjoy heartbreak. And since sexual relations often lead us to emotional connection, I theorized that by having sex with a variety of women would allow me to have all the pleasures without all the fall out. I began to separate Sex from emotions. And if you really go out and "play the game" you can get pretty jaded by some nasty manipulation some ladies will do to guys. I bet the ladies can say the same about us guys.

 

Unfortunately when an amazing woman comes (or in my case was right there next to me), we might not be able to trust that she's just not another manipulator. No matter HOW SWEET SHE IS or how much we in fact LOVE her! So we become cold, even though some of us really just want to be loved deep down. Unfortunately we've been hurt so much that we can't handle that there's a chance that love can work. That we can TRUST this potential partner. So we do what we always do to prevent the trauma, ok well NEXT!

 

I couldn't trust my best friend of 14 years, when all she wanted to do was promise me the WORLD.

 

And then I lost her, and now I'm hurt. Granted the first time I was fine with her leaving since I still wanted to see what else was out there in the dating game. Now that I'm older, I guess I pulled a Hugh Grant, and suddenly realized that having a life partner could be a wonderful thing. I hope this gives insight to your situation!