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Dating for 2.5 years - pressure to propose is boiling over


QBwannaB

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My girlfriend and I have been dating for 2 ½ years (long distance for the last 18 months). We are both 36 and we both want family and kids. She has been hinting/asking/demanding marriage. We love each other and have great times together, but I have a nagging feeling that won't go away.

 

She has two sides to her personality. One is fun and caring, the other is high-strung and an extremely Type A career woman. She is impatient and easily upset when she doesn't get her way. At first, I let things slide by blaming it on stress from her high-pressure job. But it felt like every small disagreement would devolve into a battle of wills. I grew tired of it and started appeasing her on things didn't matter to me. But it felt like I could give in 9 out of 10 times, and there would still be a fight on the 10th decision. She's generally unwilling to compromise, and she cops a bratty/nasty attitude when people don't do as she says. It is exhausting.

 

I've brought up these issues before, and she would dismiss it every time. She insists that it's my first relationship, that my expectations are unrealistic, and that every couple fights. As time passed, there was increasing pressure to propose, and our arguments got worse. She winds herself up with anxiety, shouts F-bombs, starts name calling, and is borderline verbally abusive. In January, she gave me an ultimatum to propose. I reaffirmed my love and dedication to her, but told her that her temper and disrespectful attitude are red flags that need to be addressed. A huge fight followed, and she broke up with me for a day before calling me to reconcile. Since talking didn't work, I tried writing a letter to explain how her actions make me feel. She still says it's her personality and there's nothing she can do about it.

 

When things are good, they are wonderful. I've never dated someone with such a similar sense of humor and playfulness -- we make each other laugh so much. She is very affectionate and goes out of her way to take care of me. On the flip side, she is very demanding and overbearing to her friends, family, and me. The difference is her friends and family won't have to deal with it every day. It feels like she has my future all planned out, and even started talking about planning a honeymoon and scheduling her maternity leave (she's not pregnant yet). Everything has a place marked in her calendar. Talking to her has gotten extremely stressful -- I can see the landmines in the conversation, but I can't do anything to avoid it. She puts so much urgency on everything, and I constantly feel a fight or flight anxiety when we talk about the future.

 

I want to take care of her, support her, and make her happy. I'm a good boyfriend, but I'm no pushover, and I've told her that I don't want to marry her until we can work this out. Sometimes I feel like we can have a really great future together because we're both smart and dedicated people who make each other laugh (that part feels irreplaceable). At other times, it feels like we'll have constant fighting since things don't get easier with kids. It's not fair to keep dragging the decision, and I've been struggling with it for a long time.

 

Wondering if anyone who’s been in a similar situation or has enough life experience to offer some advice.

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I feel for you.

Here's the thing, before you have that piece of paper that legally binds you to another person there is a sense of being on your best behavior. . or in this case, sometimes better behavior.

 

A shift happens for most when you get married. If you aren't careful that obligation will give you the permission to take your gloves off. And those times when you used to be a little more careful choosing your words turn into a boxing match.

 

Seeing there is something at stake here. . .something she wants, this is probably the best she is going to be.

Add in the stresses of managing kids and family, intertwined with juggling careers, don't underestimate your choice for a life partner here.

 

The inability to compromise on her part will be the demise of a marriage, because marriage is all about compromise.

 

It sounds like you love her and you genuinely want this to work. How about premarraige counseling?

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Please dont marry her until she has gotten some anger management help under her belt and both of you should go to premarital counselling. It's nonsense for her to say this is how she is and it's not going to change. What she's saying is this is me, and I will continue to be me, so you need to deal with it. Not a great way to start off a marriage.

 

i agree with reinventyself that the gloves will be off after marriage and then all hell will break loose. This all needs to be resolved before you consider seriously marrying her.

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I would skip the premarital counselling and plan on leaving, personally. Marriage and kids aren't something you want to play around with when you know the person you're with is volatile and has the potential to make you really miserable.

 

In my own experience, though I'm younger than you, I genuinely thought sticking it out in an inherently tough relationship and going through counselling would help us to "grow" things so that we could learn how to overcome our issues. All that happened was a wedge was gradually driven further and further between us as we realised more incompatibilities - that tends to happen the longer you're with someone and is the reason that healthy relationship strategies are so important early on (i.e. they don't usually get better with time, only worse).

 

My other experience with that particular person was that the good times were REALLY good, and the bad times were quite bad - hallmark signs of a bad relationship IMO because the good times only feel quite so amazing because they are in contrast with the bad. This makes sense on many levels, but it shouldn't be like that. My current relationship on the other hand, we handle fights by putting ourselves in the perspective of the other person and ultimately both end up arguing for their position/validation rather than our own - since we both do this, we are both 'heard' but by the other person doing our arguing for us. It's like a backwards fight - still uncomfortable, but completely selfless. And yes, I believe that's possible in many relationships, but not when you start out with someone who thinks they've already got "fights" figured out and knows how to get their own way by brute force. You deserve someone who's going to handle disagreements with compassion and understanding like you do.

 

Ultimately I think you should be trusting your intuition/gut here. You're getting those fight or flight feelings for a reason - it's because she's not the person you want to marry. Don't do yourself and your future kids a disservice by pretending otherwise and appeasing her because it's the more comfortable short term option.

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I just popped in for an alternative perspective. As someone who is dealing with infertility (and not handling it well, I might add), I can understand your girlfriend's point of view.

 

Her anger and attitude need to be addressed, obviously, but you can't make her address them. She will if she wants to, which it doesn't sound like she does so, what you see is what you get.

 

She's 36, and you've been together for 2.5 years. Neither of you are getting any younger and she wants kids, and a family, and a husband. And that's normal for her to want those things. And once you start thinking about it, and imagining it, and feeling like it's going to happen, it's hard to stop being so excited. She wants it so badly.

 

She's put in 2.5 years as your girlfriend. If you don't KNOW she's the one at this point, then you never will. There's not going to be some switch where you have an epiphany and realize she's it for you. Why have you continued to put this much time and effort into it if you're not sure about it?

 

Yes, she needs to work on her anger, attitude, etc. However, you also need to decide if you're going to commit or quit wasting each others precious time.

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reinvent and melancholy, thank you for your insights. I totally agree that behavior doesn't get better after marriage, which is why i'm treading with both eyes open. I've tried to explain my reasoning to her, but she doesn't seem to acknowledge that her behavior plays a role in it. Her fallback response is that I'm too idealistic, indecisive, and inconsiderate to her needs.

 

I've been seeing a therapist myself to help sort out my thoughts. We also went to a one-day couples premarital seminar last November. I felt it was a good place to start addressing these issues. She treated it as another check box on the To-Do list, and asks why I'm not ready to marry her yet. The takeaway message she keeps quoting is that "all couples have at least 5 to 7 irreconcilable differences".

 

I admit I've got a bad temper myself, but the fact that I've been patient and understanding with her tells me that people can make an effort when they want to.

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glitter, thanks for sharing. it's clear that age doesn't necessarily correspond to experience. happy to hear that you've found a more stable and fulfilling partner.

 

indea, thank you for dropping a note, and yes, i'm very aware of her point of view. we've gotten to the edge of breaking it off before, but neither of us could go through with it. i'm sorry you're dealing with fertility issues of your own. it must a very difficult and frustrating situation and i wish you the best.

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reinvent and melancholy, thank you for your insights. I totally agree that behavior doesn't get better after marriage, which is why i'm treading with both eyes open. I've tried to explain my reasoning to her, but she doesn't seem to acknowledge that her behavior plays a role in it. Her fallback response is that I'm too idealistic, indecisive, and inconsiderate to her needs.

 

I've been seeing a therapist myself to help sort out my thoughts. We also went to a one-day couples premarital seminar last November. I felt it was a good place to start addressing these issues. She treated it as another check box on the To-Do list, and asks why I'm not ready to marry her yet. The takeaway message she keeps quoting is that "all couples have at least 5 to 7 irreconcilable differences".

 

I admit I've got a bad temper myself, but the fact that I've been patient and understanding with her tells me that people can make an effort when they want to.

 

I said what I did because I can tell you'd really like to work it out with her. But truth be told, if it was me in your shoes I'd be long gone. Life is too short to put up with someone with such a bad attitude as your gf has. She is rude and condescending towards you and that is not ok. I'd like to think she could get past her lousy attitude but she has to want to do that and she is not even close to admitting she has a problem. I do think you need to end it with her and find a nicer gf.

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"reinvent and melancholy, thank you for your insights. I totally agree that behavior doesn't get better after marriage, which is why i'm treading with both eyes open. I've tried to explain my reasoning to her, but she doesn't seem to acknowledge that her behavior plays a role in it. Her fallback response is that I'm too idealistic, indecisive, and inconsiderate to her needs."

 

OP, How do you see a future with someone who does not accept any responsibility, and who not willing to make any effort? Why is she the end all?

 

Don't ever allow yourself to become someone's pushing bag.

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Based on what you wrote you sound incompatible. You do not like her just as she is (the A-rype part of her does sound awful). At 36, she has a biological clock working against her. The kind thing to do would be to set her free. She cannot and should not be asked to change her basic nature and at 2.5 years it is clear that you would never be happy with it.

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To be fair, I've focused on the core aspect that holds me back from a greater commitment. I don't mean to make her sound like a terrible person. The blow up fights have been when the relationship is on the line, so I understand why she gets furious. But her unwillingness to own up to responsibility troubles me. I've explicitly told her that there hasn't been any single incident that justifies breaking up (i.e. no breach of trust), but the small aggressions accrued over time have worn me out. My feeling is that if she gets bent out of shape when a waiter gets an order wrong, or when her friend flakes out on lunch plans -- how is she going to deal with real problems in the future? I've had to talk her down in many situations. She claims I'm her "voice of reason", yet she doesn't listen to me very often.

 

We've been doing long distance for over a year, seeing each other every other weekend. Time passes and you try to make the most out of each visit, sweeping problems under the rug. She is extremely dedicated to our relationship, she's a lot of fun, and she cooks and packs dinner for my trips even when I tell her not to. Right now, I'm willing to move back to NYC and move in with her, but I can't promise marriage until she learns to let go and loosen up a little. (Which sounds crazy coming from me, because I'm usually the controlling uptight one). A lot of your responses are on point, after 2.5 years i think it's a clash of our strong personalities that isn't going away. I feel defeated because I've been the one willing to stretch and compromise, while she really hasn't shown that at all.

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Big red beacon flashing here QB.

 

"My feeling is that if she gets bent out of shape when a waiter gets an order wrong, or when her friend flakes out on lunch plans -- how is she going to deal with real problems in the future? I've had to talk her down in many situations. She claims I'm her "voice of reason", yet she doesn't listen to me very often. "

 

At her age she needs to quit the toddler tantrums. That kind of rage is NOT anywhere near normal, and denotes something more than an "A type" personality. She will get worse OP. Call it a day. That is the best advice I can give.

 

You also remarked:

"She is impatient and easily upset when she doesn't get her way. "

 

There's the toddler again. There are many people in high-pressure jobs and they do not behave like this.

 

I would not like a lifetime with that kind of person.

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The truth of a person is how they act when things go wrong. Who they are when they are angry, disappointed and hurt is WHO THEY ARE. How they handle the hard parts of life is who they are. Almost everyone is some amount nice, fun, friendly, funny when they are getting everything they want. It's seeing my partners handle despair, disappointment and hard knocks that makes me commit to them. Life is hard. If you do everything right and are extremely lucky you still lose a lot. How someone handles the pain of life makes them the person they are.

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Big red beacon flashing here QB.

 

"My feeling is that if she gets bent out of shape when a waiter gets an order wrong, or when her friend flakes out on lunch plans -- how is she going to deal with real problems in the future? I've had to talk her down in many situations. She claims I'm her "voice of reason", yet she doesn't listen to me very often. "

 

At her age she needs to quit the toddler tantrums. That kind of rage is NOT anywhere near normal, and denotes something more than an "A type" personality. She will get worse OP. Call it a day. That is the best advice I can give.

 

You also remarked:

"She is impatient and easily upset when she doesn't get her way. "

 

There's the toddler again. There are many people in high-pressure jobs and they do not behave like this.

 

I would not like a lifetime with that kind of person.

 

Absolutely. I am a Type A personality by a mile, even to the point where I've had therapists question whether I may be showing traits of OCD because I have such a strong need for order and perfectionism. Clean freak at home, spend hours and sleepless nights working on projects because I have to bring my best to them (high achiever), always need to plan hours, days, weeks, years ahead, feel confused when people flake or display opposing behaviours...

 

But I will never take that out in my relationships with people. Why? Because I want my relationships to be easy. I'm a Type A and the other areas of my life are hard enough as it is, there is enough to think about and do without having to manage conflict all the time.

 

OP, trust your intuition. You're right - there are other (better) ways of handling things. She just doesn't want to do that, and it's not for any valid or logical reason

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All great points people. I was thinking a lot about how my GF behaves, and just realized that her moods tend to get pretty high and low across the board. Not sure what you call that, or if its all that uncommon. Highly neurotic maybe?

 

That's why things are so great when she's happy. She also gets really sad when there's any family/friend emergencies, and really tense when there's external pressures. I've gladly coached her through all of those episodes, but it's the anger part that I can't deal with. She doesn't manage negative feelings very well, and isn't inclined to self-reflection. I'm the opposite, living in my head all the time. Not sure if that changes anything though.

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OP:

 

just realized that her moods tend to get pretty high and low across the board. Not sure what you call that, or if its all that uncommon. Highly neurotic maybe?

 

NO, just not a well-adjusted person. She could do with some help from a professional.

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I get what you're saying about the fun, and the laughter. I totally get it. I realised a few years back that I'd be friends with anyone who could make me laugh, and it was the prerequisite in any relationship.

 

What this actually meant was that I was friends with some really dodgy people, and my relationships were enormous fun when they were working, and hell when they weren't. Sound familiar?

 

Long distance relationships are not the same as living with someone day in, day out and dealing with the mundanities of everyday life. Your lady IS acting like a spoilt child - lovely when things are going her own way, and a demon when they aren't. This is not someone who you should be pledging your life to.

 

The real test of a relationship, and how things are going to be, is how you handle life when it gets rough. Do you support each other, care for each other and remain patient? Do arguments break out, or are you two working together to try and find solutions? Is there blame involved, and does one person try to get their way at the expense of the other?

 

This statement also gives cause for concern:

Her fallback response is that I'm too idealistic, indecisive, and inconsiderate to her needs.
When someone tells us we're too selfish/indecisive/inconsiderate/whatever, what they're actually saying is "You're not doing what I want you to do"... and in this instance it may be useful to look at who's REALLY being inconsiderate to the needs of the other. And the stuff about the irreconcilable differences is a copout - what that means is that you need to agree to differ - it's not a justification for unacceptable behaviour.

 

For myself, if I was with a partner that had the future mapped out so clearly and rigidly I'd be out of there in a flash. This kind of controlling behaviour isn't appropriate when parents do it to their children, and it certainly has no place in an adult relationship. Likewise someone who gave me an ultimatum like that.

 

If you want to be sure, by all means live with her and see what life would be like before you make a definite decision one way or another, but the doubts you have at this stage are unlikely to get better unless she makes a determined effort to work on herself, which she seems very unlikely to do. And it's never a good idea to get seriously involved with someone whilst waiting and hoping that they'll change.

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The real test of a relationship, and how things are going to be, is how you handle life when it gets rough. Do you support each other, care for each other and remain patient? Do arguments break out, or are you two working together to try and find solutions? Is there blame involved, and does one person try to get their way at the expense of the other?

 

This statement also gives cause for concern: When someone tells us we're too selfish/indecisive/inconsiderate/whatever, what they're actually saying is "You're not doing what I want you to do"... and in this instance it may be useful to look at who's REALLY being inconsiderate to the needs of the other. And the stuff about the irreconcilable differences is a copout - what that means is that you need to agree to differ - it's not a justification for unacceptable behaviour.

 

Yep. Again, going to reiterate, when my partner and I have disagreements we validate each other's concerns and deal with them, rather than bring the other person's emotional intelligence into question. He will never tell me I'm overreacting or that I'm the one who's being unreasonable, even if I think that I may be doing a bit of that. Seems like such a small thing to say and do, but the impact it has on a relationship is enormous. It's an issue of respect and a willingness to compromise on your egotistical desire to get your way in a relationship, in order to further the relationship and preserve its health. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong on trivial things. All that matters is how you handled that disagreement, and that's all that either of you will remember in the long run.

 

I feel like this is a huge incompatibility difference. Let's imagine for a minute that you did have kids with this woman - would you want them to see how you two handle disagreements? Would you want them to grow up and adopt that same conflict management style? Because that's exactly what will happen. Since it's an issue, I wouldn't even be considering the prospect of kids with her. There are too many issues that marriages encounter that they can't foresee, for you to compromise on something like this which you already know is wrong and doesn't sit with your value system.

 

Sure, neuroticism sounds like it could be a personality trait of hers (also something which tends to damage relationships). Would make sense when you combine her behaviour and her reluctance (inability?) to change. Relevance factor is minimal, except where the polarity in good/bad times is apparent.

 

Ever heard that joke, how many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb?

One. But the lightbulb has to want to change.

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I don't want to marry her until we can work this out.

 

But isn't the goal to get married? She's mad because you aren't planning to marry her anytime soon. You know she's 36. She probably has been sitting on the concept that you don't want marriage, and are buying time, while she really doesn't have all the time in the world. I think you just don't want to marry her, and are stringing her along, and she knows it.

 

As a women with friends in the past who stressed about their now husbands proposing and getting married, almost all of the fights stem from the pressure and anxiety they feel wondering if the guy really wants to be with them, and if so, why aren't they getting married.

 

Her friends and family probably get to see her for her, since she's not trying to figure out if they are going to be her life partner. It's either sh*t or get off the pot. Be honest. If you don't want to marry her now, you probably won't ever.

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Reading through the other posts; I think you both may be a bad fit. A lot of people believe that a person can be combination of a killer at work, and a loving and giving partner - you kind of can't. This is it. It's either you want her good, bad, or ugly, or you don't. If you want someone who bends and just rolls with the punches, you need someone else who's demure, and even-heeled. You are not going to get that from her.

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It sure is no way to go about asking a man to marry you lol.

 

She winds herself up with anxiety, shouts F-bombs, starts name calling, and is borderline verbally abusive. In January, she gave me an ultimatum to propose. I reaffirmed my love and dedication to her, but told her that her temper and disrespectful attitude are red flags that need to be addressed.

 

I cannot imagine anything more awful than giving a man an "ultimatum to propose". Ugh.

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