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Jibralta
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Seraphim said:

In some ways I over invest .

I guess I overinvest, too. Not as much on a personal relationship level, but on a work level. Another thing I do is over estimate people. Instead of recognizing their limitations early on, I convince myself that they actually have wisdom and that they'll somehow self-correct and recognize my value. I wonder if you do the same with people, where you think they'll see your value if you do more?

Edited by Jibralta
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On 1/22/2021 at 8:31 AM, Jibralta said:

In June, I took a job with a  company that started out small, but which is in the process of growing rapidly. 

It's an exciting opportunity for me, career-wise. But I have had a lot of frustrations along the way. And I am not the only one. Since I've been hear, at least two people have quit out of sheer frustration from the way the owners are running things.

I know what they were going through because I was on the job with them when it was happening. Now, I am in a different position within the company and facing new frustrations.

The owners emphasize communication, but they themselves do not communicate and are inaccessible most of the time.

They do not make their expectations known until you have somehow violated them. Asking questions up front does not work. They either do not listen or they deflect with vague generalities.

They dump work on you without warning and expect you to accomplish it in an unreasonable amount of time. When you raise a concern, they tend to minimize it. But when the sht subsequently hits the fan, you are in trouble.

I talked to my boyfriend's parents about my concerns this summer. They've been business owners for 25 years, and they were like, "Why do you care about this?" And I really don't know why I care. I wish I could stop caring. I wish it didn't make me so mad. But it does. I get mad.

Any advice?

This is what you wrote in January... to me, you were still in denial about how you could, "fix," the man and his coworker (the female?), and wanted to push through trying to reason.

But you really can't reason with people like that.  If it is unethical, that's when you walk away.

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Just rereading the advice again, Lost's words still strike me as the best comprehensive response (he is so wise!).

Edited to bold and italicize some of his main points I also referred to:

Quote

On to your thread topic.  So I have worked for the same place for over 30 years and throughout all those years I have had numerous bosses on 3 levels about me (I am the lowest boss) and I am a lot like you so at first it really bothered me how incompetent some were over the years.  When I had good ones it was blissful and having one knucklehead out of 3 in the chain was doable but when you have all 3 that don't know what they are doing it is unbearable.  Over the years I learned to size them up pretty quickly and simply worked around them. I let them think what they wanted and just got the job done well.  If they called me in to chastise me I wouldn't ague or explain myself to much or at all, I would simply let them think they were in charge and were really giving it to me.  They would feel better and I would let it slide off my back and go back to doing what I know.   My situation is almost assuredly different than yours but if you think about it this way it may help.  It is mind over matter, I didn't mind because they didn't matter.  Caring to much at work can hurt you emotionally, physically and relationship wise.  Be mindful of that as you get frustrated.  The passion you have for your work is a great asset and if they were smart they would tap into that passion instead of beating you down with stupid trivial complaints for things they probably don't completely understand. 

  Looking for a new job is a good idea.  It does two things: 1. It relieves some of the stress because you see options.  2. It allows you to see that at this moment this might be the place you need to be for right now.

  My situation has gotten to the point where I started looking into retirement.  I could stick it out here longer and they couldn't touch me but looking at retirement is like looking for possible new jobs and it opened my eyes.  I should have looked sooner because financially I am lucky enough to leave at any time and live very comfortably. 

  Where I work we have had an influx of people with degrees but no experience which cause the experienced people to leave out of frustration which brings in more inexperienced people.  This place is in trouble and if your work is starting to head in that direction get out before it gets so bad it hurts your soul. 

Play the game and stop trying to teach your boss how to do their jobs better because it won't work.  They just spout stuff they read about communication and open door policy but as you have found out the communication is one sided and the door may be open but you are not welcome inside.   

  Play the long game and ALWAYS put yourself and your family first.  Giving to much and expecting a reward I have found is a recipe for disappointment.  A good work environment is worth more than 15% more salary any day.   

 

Lost

 

Edited by maritalbliss86
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7 hours ago, Jibralta said:

Irrational people making decisions, and having irrational expectations, make me irrational lol.

It didn't occur to me that it was a form of anxiety until the other week, when I was lying awake in bed. I mean, I know these thoughts are irrational; I just didn't put two and two together. Now that I know, I can take steps to address it.

I know back then I suggested going to therapy to talk about it all, but I get it, you want to do it on your own :D , but I really think a great therapist would have pointed out that you are absolutely not acting, "irrational," when in this situation.  

The anxiety is a natural response to working in a workplace like this.  You can't just bypass that without losing your sense of well-being in another way (sense of ethical obligation when they ask you do something unethical etc.).

Massive anxiety is a natural, rational response when your boss is expecting you to meet unmeetable deadlines, pass or create unsafe building plans, do things that defy the laws of physics.  

One of the nice things about therapy is they help you to see if you're not the problem.  And I really don't think you are the problem here by having these natural responses to a very toxic workplace.

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

to me, you were still in denial about how you could, "fix," the man and his coworker (the female?), and wanted to push through trying to reason.

Sorry maritalbliss, but you've read more into that post than I wrote. There's absolutely nothing in there about me trying to convince people that they were wrong, or trying to "fix" the situation.

I didn't say "How can I change them? How can I get them to see? How can I fix them?"

I said:

On 1/22/2021 at 10:34 AM, Jibralta said:

Any ideas on how to cope with my bosses and deal with my frustrations if I decide not to leave?

That whole thread is about limiting my emotional investment (anxiety!) in the matter. How can I separate what's happening in this business from my own work ethic.

I got some really good advice about coping, including the suggestion that I start looking for different employment--which I had actually already started doing at the time of my first post. 

On 1/22/2021 at 10:34 AM, Jibralta said:

Funny you say that, because just this morning, I started looking! If I had my druthers, I'd prefer to slug it out for at least two years. But I got so mad this morning that the job hunt just felt good. Self-soothing 😂

 

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7 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

And I really don't think you are the problem here by having these natural responses to a very toxic workplace.

Thanks. Even when I'm feeling really crazy, I know deep down that I am not the problem. I occasionally question myself about it as a matter of principal--checks and balances--but I know myself and I know my true motivation and intention.

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4 hours ago, Jibralta said:

Sorry maritalbliss, but you've read more into that post than I wrote. There's absolutely nothing in there about me trying to convince people that they were wrong, or trying to "fix" the situation.

I didn't say "How can I change them? How can I get them to see? How can I fix them?"

Maybe I'm wrong... I thought you continued to try to argue and reason with Simon(?), send those emails you posted, and tried to get them to see reality up until the pay cut where you seemed to change your whole outlook on not trying anymore to argue or reason or correct them?  I thought that was brilliant, actually, to agree with them and get them to think they were really right lol.  You can't do anything else unfortunately, except for quit.

It's ok ❤️ at least it will probably be rare for you to be in this bad of a similar situation in the future.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, maritalbliss86 said:

I thought you continued to try to argue and reason with Simon

Lol, I noticed.

What you are referring to is literally the only argument that I had with him. 

My frustration wasn't that there were arguments. It was this:

On 1/22/2021 at 9:31 AM, Jibralta said:

The owners emphasize communication, but they themselves do not communicate and are inaccessible most of the time.

They do not make their expectations known until you have somehow violated them. Asking questions up front does not work. They either do not listen or they deflect with vague generalities.

They dump work on you without warning and expect you to accomplish it in an unreasonable amount of time. When you raise a concern, they tend to minimize it. But when the sht subsequently hits the fan, you are in trouble.

When I posted in January, I was annoyed because a project had gotten dumped on me without warning, and Kasey expected it done in two days. There was no way it could get done in that amount of time, but I didn't argue. Instead, I worked through my weekend and got it done. Then Kasey made a couple of changes, and that made things take longer. But instead of appreciating that, she sent me and my coworker an email that amounted to a reprimand for not "working smart."

There was no argument. I kept my head down and did my job. But I was really annoyed. And this was just one example of many annoying occurrences that I've dealt with since working here. It was obvious that my attempts to communicate with them were falling on deaf ears, and I understood that this was just how they were. So, I posted for advice on how to cope with their rampant lack of communication, unrealistic expectations, and general disorganization. I wasn't looking for advice on how to change their minds or win arguments. 

It was after this that Simon hit me with that BS New Jersey law thing. And yes, I did argue. There's no way in hell I'm not going to argue that point. That's my livelihood right there. And his response was rotten (and also amazing, hilarious, and vastly entertaining). But I did not argue with him or anybody else (except maybe Jean, but he loves me) for the other 10-11 months that I've been employed by this company, not even when he cut my pay. I've just been quietly dealing with the chaos, and working long hours to get my job done. And trying to get the F out of here.

 

 

 

 

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On 4/5/2021 at 12:49 PM, Jibralta said:

I don't think he's actually been 'hanging on' all this time. He moved right on when he realized there was no chance for us. He's never reached out to me since then.

Arnold theory is that Ed has probably hit a rough patch that's caused him to reach backwards in his life.

I wish him well. 

Arnold is probably right

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Posted (edited)

About 20 years ago, a delivery driver hit my parked car and ran. My sister and I were both still living at home. I didn't see it happen. Someone (I can't remember who!) told me my car looked like it had been damaged, so I went and looked. 

It was night time, and at first it looked like a shadow. But as I got closer, I could see a scrape and a dent. That damage definitely wasn't there before.

One of my neighbors came outside and saw me looking at my car. I explained to her that someone had hit it, but I couldn't figure out who did it, or how it could happen. My car was parked nose-to-curb in a cul-de-sac, and the damage was on the side of my car. It didn't make sense. 

My neighbor was confused as well. Then she said, "We just ordered sushi from Xyz Restaurant. May be the driver hit it?"

Xyz Restaurant was literally my favorite restaurant. It would be pretty ironic if they hit my car. But it did seem like a strong possibility because of the way my neighbor's driveway aligned with my car. 

I went back inside and told my mom. She agreed to call Xyz Restaurant and claim that our neighbor saw their driver hit my car and leave. My sister got really pissed about what we were doing, and stomped upstairs. But we carried out the plan anyway.

A little while later, the restaurant called us back and we learned what happened. The driver had hit my car. He didn't set the emergency brake, and his car had rolled back into my car when he went to my neighbor's door. The driver said he didn't realize there had been any damage. But of course, there was. 

The restaurant apologized profusely and agreed to pay for the repair. The next time I ordered sushi from them, that same delivery guy delivered my order and apologized to me in person. My order was also free.

Not long after that, I went to pick up an order from the restaurant. When I walked in, all of the sushi chefs were looking at me, and people even came out of the back to see who I was 🤣🤣🤣 It was really awkward.

Edited by Jibralta
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Northern NJ has a different kind of sloppy joe. Some New Jersians say it doesn't exist. But I know it does.

When I was a kid (in the 80s & 90s) this is what I thought a sloppy joe was. Whenever my sister and I visited our dad, we'd go to the deli around the corner and I'd order a roast beef sloppy joe. There were other kinds--ham, turkey, tongue.... all deli sandwiches, not what most people think of as sloppy joes. 

When I learned there was a ground beef sloppy joe, I just thought it was just another kind of sloppy joe. There was (and still is) room in my brain for two kinds of sloppy joe: A ground beef sloppy joe and a deli-style sloppy joe can coexist. Go figure.

My dad moved out of North Jersey in the mid-90s, and I didn't see another deli-style sloppy joe for 20+ years. I started to think it was something that was unique to that one deli, or that I had possibly made it up. But then I moved to North Jersey a couple years ago, and I started seeing these sloppy joes in the local delis. I felt validated!!!

I had one the other day.... it was so good. Now I'm craving more. MMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

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I had a dream over the weekend that Michael Jordan took a genuine, benevolent interest in me--a strictly platonic interest!--and suddenly I was hanging out at his house, meeting his family members, etc. But I didn't get too involved with them. He had really good boundaries lol.

I wonder what that was all about lol

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On 4/13/2021 at 7:04 PM, Jibralta said:

I had one the other day.... it was so good. Now I'm craving more. MMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I scratched that itch this morning. Ordered online at 7:00 AM (LOL!!) from the same deli that used to be in my dad's hometown. It moved to a neighboring town at some point. Confirmed that with my cousin the other day. Guess this plan's been in the works for a while (subconsciously)--I just didn't realize it until the sandwich was in my hands this morning!

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Yesterday, the diverter mechanism on our bathtub faucet broke. We can't take showers now (we only have one bathroom). This is horrible. I enjoy my showers. I wish the super would respond......

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3 hours ago, Jibralta said:

Yesterday, the diverter mechanism on our bathtub faucet broke. We can't take showers now (we only have one bathroom). This is horrible. I enjoy my showers. I wish the super would respond......

That is the hardest thing about renting, imo.  Feeling that lack of control and having to wait on someone else to fix things.... 

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1 hour ago, maritalbliss86 said:

That is the hardest thing about renting, imo.  Feeling that lack of control and having to wait on someone else to fix things.... 

I know that is the case in a lot of places. They're great here, though.  

Not having a shower sucks, but I'll be good to go tomorrow morning.

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1 hour ago, maritalbliss86 said:

That is the hardest thing about renting, imo.  Feeling that lack of control and having to wait on someone else to fix things.... 

that’s funny. I feel the opposite way.  Our staff comes ASAP for emergencies which the broken shower would be and within a day or less for most other stuff.  No tipping allowed.  Friendly. Professional.  I’ve had friends wait days for a new fridge.  When ours needed to be fixed or replaced within a day or less.  My husband has a full tool box and we have a plunger etc but he travels in normal times and I’m not handy.  Love this part of renting !  No desire to be a home owner although we do own one in another state. 

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30 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

I know that is the case in a lot of places. They're great here, though. 

That's great.  Very glad you don't have to wait long.  Our last experience was why we finally felt the need to buy.  Just way too hard if the management is bad (especially with multiple young kids).  And moving is so much harder with kids, so you have to find great management and then hope the landlord doesn't switch.

My husband actually enjoys having that ability to just do it himself now, he's taken over this job of handyman :D lol.  I joked about renting again not long ago, and he was terrified 😂 I think that lack of control is not pleasant.  He's scarred from the experience of bad management in renting. LOL

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I do plan to buy eventually, but I will surely miss the benefit of someone else being responsible for maintenance costs and time! And yes, having a good landlord makes all of the difference. 

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Posted (edited)

I didn't get the impression that you were trying to sell me. I've wanted to buy for years and years. The problem is, I don't know where I want to be. So, I stay put and rent and save.

Yeah, property taxes suck here, but in this area, it's the price of real estate that is the killer. Just to buy an 860 sf condo, it would be $400K. Expect to pay $850K for a stupid little Cape Cod. And that's not even in the "nice" part of town. Median cost is $1.4M for a house. High end is upwards of $6M.

It's great to rent here, but there's no reason for me to buy. People with kids move here because of the schools. But I moved here because of a job. I've never looked at this area with the idea of staying permanently. I'm surprised I've been here as long as I have. And it looks like I'm going to be staying even longer because my new job is a mile from home.

Edited by Jibralta
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2 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

My husband actually enjoys having that ability to just do it himself now, he's taken over this job of handyman :D lol.

Mine would too.  He doesn't have the time at all given his job responsibilities.  I've only rented in lovely buildings.  I grew up in a coop apartment where my mom still lives -for over 50 years now.  The maintenance staff are the kids and grandkids of who came before.  My mom is 86.  They cannot do enough for her.  I lived there for 28 years and had the same experience. 

One reason I don't want a house is I like living walking distance to everything including culture and parks and restaurants.  I'm slightly allergic to suburbs although I enjoy visiting.  Buying in my neighborhood would be insanely expensive and not worth the investment despite being able to afford it.

Edited by Batya33
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15 hours ago, Jibralta said:

Just to buy an 860 sf condo, it would be $400K. Expect to pay $850K for a stupid little Cape Cod. And that's not even in the "nice" part of town. Median cost is $1.4M for a house. High end is upwards of $6M.

Wow, that's worse than I expected! 😬

 

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13 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I've only rented in lovely buildings. 

Our last house we lived in for over 7 years was amazing, huge yard, too for gardening.  I think it's just that renting here is actually more expensive than owning believe it or not, which creates odd problems for the landlord and the tenant.  And even the good management companies sometimes run into a landlord that only wants to spend so much (because she's really not making much profit), and it becomes a battle of getting them to take care of things, with the management being the mediator. 

We had friends who rented 2 story homes (nice ones!) who had the same problems... the owners rarely ever wanted to fix things, some even wanted to fix it themselves to cut corners because for them, renting isn't very profitable (they have to keep their prices relatively low enough or their customers will all just go and buy since buying really is cheaper here).

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