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Jibralta
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On 3/21/2021 at 2:28 PM, Jibralta said:

The destruction of things that people care about... That's the flame that Ed Kemper meticulously, secretly, deliberately, and methodically found a way to fuel throughout his life, until he could destroy and desecrate the MOST cared about things: human beings.

It's curious you can't seem to see that he actually was destroyed and desecrated himself probably from infancy in a multitude of ways from his own mother.  I've known men like that, but that acted out by making themselves into male prostitutes, destroying and humiliating their bodies as a vent from their childhood.

One was a distant cousin.  His mom was like the wife of satan (according to my mom, who saw her beat him regularly as an infant!!!).  Of course the abuse never really stopped.  I found a picture of him a few years ago when I think he was a teen and his eyes look so tortured.

These men (or women) were destroyed, desecrated, as infants sometimes.  And yes, that does create more crime and violence or destruction of society on down the line. 

The child abuse is only increasing. [Edited to add... child abusing is also increasing due to failed first marriages, as step-parents abuse their step-kids even more than natural parents do... even if they're just a boyfriend or girlfriend.  So the decline of healthy, stable marriages and families contributes to more child abuse overall.]

Edited by maritalbliss86
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And all of the adults knew what was going on, that his mom was turning into Satan with her own children, but no one stepped in... no one saved her kids from that.  My mom was 12 so she was limited and also came from an abusive family.  Her thinking is that abusive parents protect each other... they see themselves as victims of their children's behavior.

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Oooo something else... I haven't seen that new movie of the Joker, but he seemed to fit that profile of a man who had an abusive mother (whom he thinks really took care of him), and then when he finds out I believe, just how horrible his childhood actually was, he breaks psychologically and becomes a murderer/the Joker.

Apparently in the psyche paper documents he stumbles upon of his childhood was that he was chained, as a child, to a generator so that he couldn't get away from his mother's boyfriends who would violently and horrifically abuse and torture him.

That is the experience of  A LOT of male children these days.  One of the reasons why that movie did so well, was because it explored what a lot of people don't want to talk about.  What happens to little boys and girls who have moms who let their boyfriends do that to them?  

And I'll keep saying it... this is only increasing.

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1 hour ago, maritalbliss86 said:

It's curious you can't seem to see that he actually was destroyed and desecrated himself probably from infancy in a multitude of ways from his own mother.  I've known men like that, but that acted out by making themselves into male prostitutes, destroying and humiliating their bodies as a vent from their childhood.

One was a distant cousin.  His mom was like the wife of satan (according to my mom, who saw her beat him regularly as an infant!!!).  Of course the abuse never really stopped.  I found a picture of him a few years ago when I think he was a teen and his eyes look so tortured.

These men (or women) were destroyed, desecrated, as infants sometimes.  And yes, that does create more crime and violence or destruction of society on down the line. 

The child abuse is only increasing. [Edited to add... child abusing is also increasing due to failed first marriages, as step-parents abuse their step-kids even more than natural parents do... even if they're just a boyfriend or girlfriend.  So the decline of healthy, stable marriages and families contributes to more child abuse overall.]

I was lucky my step fathers were wonderful parents to me. My biological father was the abusive p...

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Actually I think a lot of kids who are abused, have absent fathers etc. turn to crime and violence as a way of, "venting," their deep anger and rage at what was allowed to happen to them.

I don't disagree at all. In fact, one of my longest relationships was with a parolee who was wearing an ankle bracelet when I met him. He'd been convicted of grand theft auto, breaking and entering, and stealing a gun and crossing state lines. Sweetest guy in the world, but grew up with a deeply ill, schizophrenic mother and didn't have a chance. I knew he was a gentle soul even as I watched him punch holes down the length of his bedroom wall, punch through the window, and bleed his way into his back yard where he stood until I caught up with him. Even after we broke up and he went back to prison, I never thought anything less of him.

4 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

It's curious you can't seem to see that he actually was destroyed and desecrated himself probably from infancy in a multitude of ways from his own mother.

Once upon a time, I thought that of everyone. But after living a little and meeting different kinds of people, not anymore! In Ed's case, I don't believe for a second that this all was his mom's fault. And neither does he. I've watched his interviews over and over again. He's really interesting! Very intriguing guy, very intelligent, but ultimately reptilian. He's even able to make you laugh when he talks about some of the blunders he made while trying to kill girls. So disarming--and that's calculated. He is a student of persuasion. 

If you watch the interviews in order, you can see how his story has changed over the years to encourage sympathy for him. But every once in a while, he slips. You should watch his interview where he reminisces about Herbert Mullin, how they both learned to hide their enjoyment of seeing people "leak to death" from psychological professionals so that they could keep on doing it. He is a true, natural-born sadist. 

3 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

I haven't seen that new movie of the Joker, but he seemed to fit that profile of a man who had an abusive mother (whom he thinks really took care of him), and then when he finds out I believe, just how horrible his childhood actually was, he breaks psychologically and becomes a murderer/the Joker.

I saw that movie. It was really good. But one of the best parts of the movie was how well they illustrated the psychotic break. 

When Ed Kemper was first incarcerated at 15, they diagnosed him as paranoid schizophrenic. That's what he laughs about in his interview where he spoke about Herbert Mullin. Mullin was diagnosed as schizophrenic, too, but Kemper called BS. He told Mullin that he knew he (Mullin) was faking the schizophrenia, just like he (Kemper) did, because if he told the truth the doctors would shut him away forever. They both lied about their motives. Ed Kemper is not psychotic.

Some people believe that the worst thing authorities ever did was put Ed Kemper in Atascadero State Hospital when he was 15. That 5-year stay taught him how to be an expert in manipulating people. In this video, he describes how he manipulated Mullin into trusting him. It's great watching Ed Kemper talk. He reminds me a lot of my uncle. I have to remind myself that he would kill me and rape my corpse 😂 

To me, this video is evidence that Ed Kemper had enough insight, intelligence, and wisdom to understand his own actions, and the ability to refrain from perpetrating them. Yet he chose not to. That's why I don't believe for a second that he became a murderer, cannibal, and necrophile because he was a victim of abuse. Not this guy. He did exactly what he wanted to do.

 

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2 hours ago, Jibralta said:

And neither does he. I've watched his interviews over and over again.

You are more committed than I am for sure! I wouldn't be able to do that I think over and over again!

2 hours ago, Jibralta said:

but ultimately reptilian. He's even able to make you laugh when he talks about some of the blunders he made while trying to kill girls. So disarming--and that's calculated. He is a student of persuasion. 

I understand, and I'm sure you're right, I still believe people aren't born that way... I think monsters are created.  

Everyone has a choice, so he made the choices he made, instead of fight against it, but I still don't think he was literally born evil. 

Evil is usually (in my opinion) a series of choices... with each choice taking you further in that direction toward more and more evil.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Evil is usually (in my opinion) a series of choices... with each choice taking you further in that direction toward more and more evil.

The same could be said for Good. And for Neutrality. Who is behind your choices: you or other people?

Edited by Jibralta
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I'm not on Facebook anymore, so my mom gives me updates from time to time (such a busybody lol).

She told me last week that my ex boyfriend (Ed) friended my sister on Facebook. 

I was glad, even though I think we all know why he did it--he's looking for me. 

I'm not creeped out. He's not a creep. He and I were major parts of each other's life. He was my first real boyfriend. 

We were together almost 2 years. Broke up when I was 17 and he was 21, got back together when I was 25 or 26. He had three kids at that point, two of his own and one he'd raised since infancy. 

The second time around lasted for about 8 months... the situation was just too unsettled for me. His relationship with his ex and her family was so difficult, he worked such long hours.... sometimes I'd go in with him on the weekends just so we could spend time together. 

We remained friends for a while after we broke up. He installed a security alarm in my mom's house and would come over on the weekends to do other electrical work in her house.

I remember one day, I was trying to install custom shelves in this odd-shaped, triangular closet that she had. I spent hours trying to work everything out on paper just right... He came over and laughed at all of these elaborate drawings that I did and then hammered them all into place in about 30 minutes lol. 

We had two timeshares in South Carolina and we gave one to Ed and his kids. The kids had never had a real vacation like that before. I spent the week teaching them how to swim. Then we went kayaking and the kids almost got swept out to sea 😂😂😂. It was a nice week, though.

One day, Ed came over to do some work for my mom, and I left to go to my friend's house. He never came over again after that. I realized that he'd really be coming over to see me. The final nail in the coffin was a phone conversation where I guess we had been talking about our old relationship and I said, "I loved you so much." Loved. He heard that more clearly than I did, and it was the last time I spoke to him. He never returned my calls after that.

He ended up dating a girl he worked with. They moved in and were together for I guess 7 or 8 years. She called me from time to time when there was an issue with his ex girlfriend's family. But I think she mainly called me to keep tabs on me, to make sure I wasn't messing with her man. I wasn't.

Ed did end up cheating on her--so odd for him. She called me, broken hearted. Angry. What could I say? He moved out with the other girl and that was the end of the relationship. That was 10 years ago.

I have wondered about him over the years, hoping he was doing ok. His kids are all grown now. I hope they weren't too battered and abused by their mother's backwards family. I hope that Ed was a strong, guiding force in their lives, and didn't let his temper get the best of him too much.

I was happy when my mom told me that he friended my sister. I wanted my mom to friend him, too. But she seemed resistant. Maybe she is protecting my current relationship? She doesn't have to. I'm not a moron. My current relationship is wonderful, and I'm very happy in it. 

We joked about Ed and my sister getting together--totally incompatible. But stranger things have happened! And we know he's a devoted father.... That would still be pretty difficult to stomach lol. 

My mom sent me a picture of him from facebook. I replied, "He looks good! Did you friend him?" No reply from her. Hmmphf.

 

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LOL My mom is also a busy-body on facebook... always keeping me up with people I've lost touch with.  

Sometimes I like it, and sometimes I think to myself, "Yea... that's kind of why I (purposefully) lost touch with that person, Mom... you don't have to tell me all of this!"  Sometimes I'd rather not know.  Ignorance really is bliss when it comes to other people's drama and weird lives I'm not interested in.

Oh well.

 

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Interesting about your Ed, too.  What makes a man hang on for soooo long?  I don't really understand it, and it makes me wonder if women aren't like that as much... if it's more of a guy thing to get so hung up on one person, and for decades.

 

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26 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

What makes a man hang on for soooo long?

I don't think he's actually been 'hanging on' all this time. He moved right on when he realized there was no chance for us. He's never reached out to me since then.

Arnold theory is that Ed has probably hit a rough patch that's caused him to reach backwards in his life.

I wish him well. 

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Posted (edited)

 

31 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

I really need to develop a bigger sense of self preservation. I need to be important too. Do what is best for me , my business and my family. I need to stay within those boundaries.

Me too. I put up with crap that I shouldn't put up with. It just makes me work harder, which is not the solution. I think that I need to learn to stay the course. Meaning (in my case) not try to work harder and not assume responsibility for problems that do not originate with me, and which ultimately have to do with the poor planning habits of people at a higher pay grade.

There's a level of fear there, that something bad will happen if I don't work harder. I think that comes from growing up with such unpredictable parents. There was nothing I could do to avoid that chaos, and I was penalized for trying to resist. That didn't stop me from resisting, but it added a heavy layer of unpleasantness and fear to the whole process of doing right by myself.

Even writing about this fills me with a deep sense of anxiety. The sensation is literally like water filling a balloon, causing pressure within, pushing the walls outwards, stretching them thin. Dark, heavy water, pushing out the air. Ugh.

I think what I have to do is practice, and see what happens. I have to not work harder and find out if it results in some ultimate consequence, like getting fired. Feels like a big risk. But it's either risking the phantom 'ultimate consequence,' which may only exist in my childhood imagination, or sacrifice my peace of mind, which actually is in legitimate peril right now. 

Edited by Jibralta
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My ex husband worked 7 days a week, including all holidays, because he had what I considered to be an irrational fear of getting fired. When I pointed out that none of his coworkers were working 7 days a week or on holidays and they didn't get fired, he responded "well, they might fire ME!" It puzzles me to this day where that fear came from.

But even though I don't understand that fear, it doesn't mean it's not very real. I just can't even imagine how stressful it must be to live that way.

You have the ability and knowledge and intelligence any employer with a brain would value. Just remember to tell yourself that.

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57 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

There's a level of fear there, that something bad will happen if I don't work harder. I think that comes from growing up with such unpredictable parents. There was nothing I could do to avoid that chaos, and I was penalized for trying to resist. That didn't stop me from resisting, but it added a heavy layer of unpleasantness and fear to the whole process of doing right by myself.

Even writing about this fills me with a deep sense of anxiety. The sensation is literally like water filling a balloon, causing pressure within, pushing the walls outwards, stretching them thin. Dark, heavy water, pushing out the air. Ugh.

Yea... it becomes an attachment style like fearful avoidant or anxiously working harder, sometimes they kind of blend into each other I think.  My husband definitely has bits of each, but at least he works hard to get through them.  They only really crop up in stressful situations or with his family (due to the emotional, verbal and physical abuse making him very fearful avoidant on some things).

59 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

I think what I have to do is practice, and see what happens. I have to not work harder and find out if it results in some ultimate consequence, like getting fired. Feels like a big risk. But it's either risking the phantom 'ultimate consequence,' which may only exist in my childhood imagination, or sacrifice my peace of mind, which actually is in legitimate peril right now. 

See to me you already risked being fired by trying to confront the people at your workplace and trying to get them to correct their own psycho-reactions.  The pay cut was punishment for that, which I kind of saw coming and warned you way back in Jan or Feb that you could eventually get fired with people like this, if you are confrontational.  It just IS.  You really have to keep your head down sometimes and just get out.  

I mean, it feels good (sometimes) to confront, but you don't win that way. 

I think sometimes... winning is walking away (silently) and letting someone else deal with that crap.

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I think I've slowly learned this with my husband's family (and thank goodness he's learning it too!).  

You can't fix them by being nice and trying to bring up things you don't like, boundaries, etc.  It actually makes them angrier.  The best thing sometimes is to quietly walk away or stop responding until they get the message that way.  Believe it's called being as boring as a grey rock... so that they get bored with you and move on to something else finally.

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By meaningful I mean bringing someone into my heart. In some ways I over invest . I do too many things for people and get taken for granted. So I take very very very few people into my heart to avoid being hurt . 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

But even though I don't understand that fear, it doesn't mean it's not very real. I just can't even imagine how stressful it must be to live that way.

It only seems to happen when things get out of control. In a normal, healthy work environment, I don't have this fear. But there are certain things that trigger it. For example, when expectations are vague and there's no feedback once the work is complete--that's a trigger for me. Or when things that I say seem to fall on deaf ears.... Basically when it seems like no one is really at the helm in the organization. Irrational people making decisions, and having irrational expectations, make me irrational lol.

It didn't occur to me that it was a form of anxiety until the other week, when I was lying awake in bed. I mean, I know these thoughts are irrational; I just didn't put two and two together. Now that I know, I can take steps to address it.

These last two months have really been an enlightening experience, in terms of my inner-workings. I'm so much tougher and stronger than I realized. I didn't think I could make it through more than I week, but I have. And it gets easier and easier (even if I am plagued by irrational thoughts from time to time).

 

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34 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

Irrational people making decisions, and having irrational expectations, make me irrational lol.

I think that's a normal response though.  You're not supposed to be, "OK," with crazies running things and running them into the ground, being unethical etc.  If you were ok with that, then it'd be an indicator something was wrong with you (and there isn't).

That's why I think it's wise to try to recognize environments like that, decide what you want to get out of it (your end goal), and then make an actionable plan.  But you've done that!!!  You're doing great!

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2 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

See to me you already risked being fired by trying to confront the people at your workplace and trying to get them to correct their own psycho-reactions.  The pay cut was punishment for that, which I kind of saw coming and warned you way back in Jan or Feb that you could eventually get fired with people like this, if you are confrontational.  It just IS.  You really have to keep your head down sometimes and just get out.  

I mean, it feels good (sometimes) to confront, but you don't win that way. 

I think sometimes... winning is walking away (silently) and letting someone else deal with that crap

I should add there's a caveat to this, you can only go so far until you have to speak out.

When the stake is human life, being an idealist, speaking out, is a good thing:

 

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5 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

See to me you already risked being fired by trying to confront the people at your workplace and trying to get them to correct their own psycho-reactions.  The pay cut was punishment for that, which I kind of saw coming and warned you way back in Jan or Feb that you could eventually get fired with people like this, if you are confrontational.  It just IS.  You really have to keep your head down sometimes and just get out.  

I mean, it feels good (sometimes) to confront, but you don't win that way. 

I think sometimes... winning is walking away (silently) and letting someone else deal with that crap.

That's not what happened. I wasn't trying to correct anyone's psycho-reactions.

It's my legal and ethical obligation as a license-holder to not sign off on a design that I feel is unsafe. Period. Not only could I lose my license, but somebody (or somebodies) could literally die.

It's not about winning--at least not on my end. And it shouldn't be on his end, either, so shame on him! Someone like him cannot be trusted and should not have a license.  

4 hours ago, maritalbliss86 said:

I think that's a normal response though.  You're not supposed to be, "OK," with crazies running things and running them into the ground, being unethical etc.  If you were ok with that, then it'd be an indicator something was wrong with you (and there isn't).

That's why I think it's wise to try to recognize environments like that, decide what you want to get out of it (your end goal), and then make an actionable plan.  But you've done that!!!  You're doing great!

Thanks. Unfortunately, I didn't realize how crazy they actually were until I got in that altercation with Simon. Until that point, I was able to rationalize all of the weirdness and make excuses for it. I truly thought I would stay there for a couple of years. 

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