Very strange situation, need advice.

[Kurt]

Hello all, I need some advice about the current situation I'm in. My wife and I are currently on the brink of divorce. I'll give you a background on how we got here. We have a strange situation, we used to be an pseudo-occult like church, that's where we met. We got married after dating for 3 months and were engaged for 9 months before getting married. She was 19 when we got married, I was 22. This church we were in was very manipulative, they liked to control every part of your life, and there was tremendous pressure to get married young. So we moved forward with getting married fairly quickly. I felt like it was just fine because I was in love, but my wife was not in love with me, the only problem is she never told me that. And she put on a great acting face. She felt the pressure from me and everyone around us to get married to me. I thought it was quick love and that God wanted us to be together. It is very difficult for my wife to speak her mind, especially back then. We got kicked out of this church about 2 years ago because we were starting to realize that the level of control the leaders of this church had over your life was sickening, we started challenging them and asking questions, then got excommunicated. These past 2 years have been tough, we are re-learning how to think and exist without this church telling us what to think, its a very strange feeling. We have been married now for 5 years and my wife recently told me the way she felt about our dating period, engagement, and marriage so far. And none of it were easy things for me to hear. She told me she never loved me and married me against her feelings about me because that's what everyone around us wanted, and she was afraid to hurt me. She also told me that she doesn't really love me now either. Her feelings toward me just aren't what she wants in a man. So essentially our marriage was started on an uneven foundation, I loved her but she didn't love me. After hearing all of these things from her I feel very hurt and confused, I always felt something was wrong in our marriage, I've always known in the back of my mind that she felt this way about me, but I never fully accepted the reality of her feelings toward me. We have been seeing a counselor and it feels like it's not working and just a bunch of stuff we already know. I do still love my wife, but I don't just want to be one of those miserable couples, and I see plenty of them around me. Ones that stay married for the sake of it but hate their lives. I want her to be happy. I know that is a lot of information, but this is our current situation in a nutshell. We have no children by the way. Getting a divorce would hurt a lot of people around us and mess up a lot of relationships we have with others, it would be messy, but I'm kind of tired of living for other people instead of looking out for my best interest. Overall it's just hard to see how we are going to survive this tough time, our current life is just no fun at all. My wife doesn't like having sex, she hates my family, hates doing anything social, and we just kind of exist together. She has said multiple times that she feels like I'm just a roommate and not a lover. I have fought and fought for this marriage and I just feel so burnt out, but at the same time we still seem great together at times. We have tried discussing whether to just call it quits or keep trying to make it work, but we can't come to a definitive answer. It's so scary. If you were on my shoes, what would you do?

[Knight2001]

if you cant come to the answer to call it quits, then dont. if you think there's something to fight for, fight for it. it's not worth giving up on a 5r relationship if you think there is something still there. unless one, or both of you are sure it's the end of the road then there is still a chance. have you tried any form of relationship counselling?

good luck

[itsallgrand]

I'm so sorry for what you and your wife have been through. Is your family and your wife's family still involved with the church?

 

You are doing a lot of things right. You are in councilling together to work this through, however it may unfold. You are listening to her, really supporting her having her voice and you want her to be happy even if that means you don't get what you want out of this - that's love right there. Sometimes councilling leads to a couple realizing the best thing for them is to uncouple, and the sessions can help a couple find a healthy way to do that. So it's great you are in councilling together.

 

Do you have good supports in your life now as far as friends and others who are not involved in the church? Invest in building good relationships and your life outside of your marriage, it will be good for you whether or not the two of you stay together. Do you have support from organizations and others who understand what it is like to break away from a destructive cult? That could be a huge resource for you. I bet many have and do deal with the dissolving of marriages after getting out, and dealing with relationships that are severed or continued pressure from those who you had relationships with before.

 

You two will always have a bond. Maybe it will not be a life long marriage, but a friendship that develops down the line. Whatever happens, you can get through this.

[Lester]

Forced/trapped/Godless marriages are non-marriages.

They do not have enough of the required elements of marriage to ever be called marriage.

[lostandhurt]

If I were in your shoes I would have to accept that she never loved you and is not in love with you and never will be. Acceptance is hard even in the face of all the facts you now have.

 

You are trying to save something that is already gone. I am sorry.

 

The divorce doesn't have to messy. You are in counseling so why not shift the sessions from trying to save a dead marriage or really a non marriage to how to end it with respect and carrying for each other. You want her to be happy and I assume she wants the same for you so start talking about how best to end what never should have been.

 

The longer this goes on the more resentment and wasted time will pile up. Before your next session talk to your wife about bringing up how to end the marriage in the healthiest way possible. If the counselor will not help then find a new one.

 

Not all marriages can or should be saved...

 

Lost

[Kurt]

if you cant come to the answer to call it quits, then dont. if you think there's something to fight for, fight for it. it's not worth giving up on a 5r relationship if you think there is something still there. unless one, or both of you are sure it's the end of the road then there is still a chance. have you tried any form of relationship counselling?

good luck

 

Yes we have been in counseling, 4 sessions so far. It's not really working, just the same things and techniques we already know and have tried.

[Kurt]

I'm so sorry for what you and your wife have been through. Is your family and your wife's family still involved with the church?

 

You are doing a lot of things right. You are in councilling together to work this through, however it may unfold. You are listening to her, really supporting her having her voice and you want her to be happy even if that means you don't get what you want out of this - that's love right there. Sometimes councilling leads to a couple realizing the best thing for them is to uncouple, and the sessions can help a couple find a healthy way to do that. So it's great you are in councilling together.

 

Do you have good supports in your life now as far as friends and others who are not involved in the church? Invest in building good relationships and your life outside of your marriage, it will be good for you whether or not the two of you stay together. Do you have support from organizations and others who understand what it is like to break away from a destructive cult? That could be a huge resource for you. I bet many have and do deal with the dissolving of marriages after getting out, and dealing with relationships that are severed or continued pressure from those who you had relationships with before.

 

You two will always have a bond. Maybe it will not be a life long marriage, but a friendship that develops down the line. Whatever happens, you can get through this.

 

Thank you for this reply it is very helpful! And no both of our families are out of the church, they all left when I caused a ruckus and got my wife and I kicked out. And we have a few close friends, 4 of them. And 5 family friends that are close to us. Those are our relationships outside of the church, and they all mostly left the church with us. We just know too many judgmental Christians at both of our jobs and in our lives that would make this annoying. We could use more level headed friends who don't just want to use the Bible to say "GOD HATES DIVORCE SO YOU CANT." The divorce would be hardest on my wife's family, they really like me and there are 5 nieces and nephews that all love me on my wife's side as well. And no we aren't involved in a group like that that understands getting out of an abusive cult. Maybe I'll look for one. This church was technically a sect of Christianity, but the inner core leadership was where the weird happened. And other Christians have been nothing but belittling and condescending about our experience. So I'll try to find an actual grief group that isn't Christian based. Thank you

[thealchemist]

Forced/trapped/Godless marriages are non-marriages.

They do not have enough of the required elements of marriage to ever be called marriage.

God doesn't have to be in a marriage to work. But forced and trapped definitely.

[Wiseman2]

Wow. Sorry this happened. Where either you or she born into this or were you recruited? What about your families are they in the cult or glad you are out? How long were you in this situation?

 

Agree you need secular support, not any sort of faith-based support. It's too confusing since cults are usually dressed up as faiths and churches and blurring the lines is how they operate.

 

It's understandable you are both confused and struggling with many issues including questioning the marriage itself. These cults do a lot of damage when it comes to emotions.

 

Excellent you are seeing a counselor. Divorce may be an option . Keep in mind the marriage was borne of this cult experience and that could hold you back. Cults hook emotions to the crap they ply. That's how they distort things and mess with people.

 

Some specific reading on cults could help with healing. Have you read this book?: Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults, and Beliefs

She was 19 when we got married, I was 22. This church we were in was very manipulative, they liked to control every part of your life, and there was tremendous pressure to get married young. These past 2 years have been tough, we are re-learning how to think and exist without this church telling us what to think, its a very strange feeling. She told me she never loved me and married me against her feelings about me because that's what everyone around us wanted, and she was afraid to hurt me. My wife doesn't like having sex, she hates my family, hates doing anything social, and we just kind of exist together.

[Kurt]

Wow. Sorry this happened. Where either you or she born into this or were you recruited? What about your families are they in the cult or glad you are out? How long were you in this situation?

 

Agree you need secular support, not any sort of faith-based support. It's too confusing since cults are usually dressed up as faiths and churches and blurring the lines is how they operate.

 

It's understandable you are both confused and struggling with many issues including questioning the marriage itself. These cults do a lot of damage when it comes to emotions.

 

Excellent you are seeing a counselor. Divorce may be an option . Keep in mind the marriage was borne of this cult experience and that could hold you back. Cults hook emotions to the crap they ply. That's how they distort things and mess with people.

 

Some specific reading on cults could help with healing. Have you read this book?QUOTE]

 

My family and I were recruited, I was in the church for 10 years starting at age 15. She was recruited at age 17 after I had been in it for awhile. And both families are out. Only her mom and sister were in the church. But my whole immediate family was in it. We all left and are glad about it. And I will look into that book thank you!

[LaHermes]

Kurt.

 

"I'm kind of tired of living for other people instead of looking out for my best interest"

 

Get out while the going is good. You have no children, and even if you did, I'd still say get out.

This was never a marriage.

 

"She told me she never loved me and married me against her feelings about me because that's what everyone around us wanted"

 

There is a life ahead, Kurt, once you get out of this twilight zone horror movie.

 

I read your OP and actually can't believe what I am reading and that there are actually cults like the one you describe and people who join them.

[Kurt]

Kurt.

 

"I'm kind of tired of living for other people instead of looking out for my best interest"

 

Get out while the going is good. You have no children, and even if you did, I'd still say get out.

This was never a marriage.

 

"She told me she never loved me and married me against her feelings about me because that's what everyone around us wanted"

 

There is a life ahead, Kurt, once you get out of this twilight zone horror movie.

 

I read your OP and actually can't believe what I am reading and that there are actually cults like the one you describe and people who join them.

 

I know it's insane... they got me as a confused teenager looking for self worth and identity. It's sick and twisted, all the name of God too. Just disgusting. I'm a lot wiser now, won't be fooled by craziness like that again.

[Wiseman2]

Excellent. What was the cult like?

I know it's insane... they got me as a confused teenager looking for self worth and identity. It's sick and twisted, all the name of God too. Just disgusting. I'm a lot wiser now, won't be fooled by craziness like that again.

[Genord92]

Step 1. BREATH! It's going to be okay!

Step 2. Get online and find an attorney. I would say get one that does free consultation talk to them and see what they say. He may not have much of a choice but to help pay those fees.

Step 3. Breath again.

[Kurt]

Step 1. BREATH! It's going to be okay!

Step 2. Get online and find an attorney. I would say get one that does free consultation talk to them and see what they say. He may not have much of a choice but to help pay those fees.

Step 3. Breath again.

 

Thank you. It feels like it's going to come down to this. Feels like a very hard thing to do though, every time we get closer to making the mutual decision to break it off and move on, we delay it more and get scarred...

[Kurt]

Excellent. What was the cult like?

 

It was a nightmare. We were taught to hold the opinion of the pastors above all others, even family members or close friends. This led to so many problems. Every decision you made revolved around whether you think the pastors would approve it, and the weird thing is you never even questioned in your head why you cared so much about what they think... I missed out on so much life worrying about what they would do if I made one decision or another. I found out later that one of them was a psychologist who used a lot of hypnosis techniques and psychological triggers on people in the past, that could certainly explain why you did things without even questioning why. Let's just say I'm very glad I'm out of there. Sad thing is so many of my former friends (they aren't aloud to talk to me) are still stuck in that .

[KantSleep]

You escaped from their clutches. Good for you. Best of luck going forward. I regret to say this marriage sounds over. Without love there isn't anything worth hanging around for. Someday you will find a lady who loves you, and when you do, your world will shine again.

[Kurt]

So here's an update for everyone who has given advice:

 

After speaking with my wife multiple times and taking counseling I decided to give my wife the choice that she felt like she never had, I told her to decide if she wanted to be with me or not. Plain and simple, I wanted to let her go through all the possibilities in her and come to a decision since she felt like there was so much outside pressure the first time. Since this time I have become very frustrated because she is acting like life will simply continue like it always does, she's bothering me about scheduling an anniversary trip, making a new monthly budget plan, planning vacations for the year etc... She has also reached a new level of coldness in this time. I confronted her on this and she said it's so scary and doesn't know what to do, I told that I don't think she will ever love me if she never did in the first place. Nevertheless she isn't coming to a conclusion and I'm tired of living this way, she is so unhappy and so am I, I just want to leave and begin to re-build my life. Should I essentially make the choice for her? I don't mean forcefully make her choose right now just simply tell her that I feel like it's unfixable and we need to start figuring out how to separate?

[LaHermes]

Exactly Kurt.

 

"just simply tell her that I feel like it's unfixable and we need to start figuring out how to separate?"

[Kurt]

Exactly Kurt.

 

"just simply tell her that I feel like it's unfixable and we need to start figuring out how to separate?"

 

Ok thank you. Man is it hard to bring this up right now. I don't know how to bring it up to her, this sucks...

[Kurt]

Update:

I told her we needed to start separating and making a plan to do so, we had a long talk about and it ended well, we both agreed that separating and divorcing would be liberating. And then last week she flipped out on me and said she won't get a divorce because she is embarrassed and doesn't want to be a bad influence on her nieces and nephews who are all very little, so now she wants to work it out. I have no interest in this, my heart is ripped out and I'm done. She says she doesn't love me and never did and I'm horribly confused as to how she thinks I will ever be happy with her again after she said that to me. This is an absolute nightmare that I can't seem to get out of... She spends her nights moping around and getting mad at the dumbest possible things that I do, everything I do is torn apart and then she gets all mad at me. It's insane.

 

I do want to thank all of you though for the advice you have given, it helped me see just how screwed up this situation truly is. I needed that outside perspective, I feel like I've been seeing whole thing with clear eyes.