9 yrs together, and 2 kids

[happyOJ]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, so please forgive me for my lack of knowledge with regards to abbreviations and stuff. My wife and I have been together for 9 years (married for 4). During the majority of that time I have been depressed and suffered with very strong anxieties when it comes to socialising with others, or being in social situations. My wife is quite the opposite and has always wanted us to have a life where we can spend time away with other families and kids, or even just the odd night out with friends. Although I have been able to do this, albeit less and less over the years, I have always found it incredibly awkward or forced. It even got to a point that the two of us could barely enjoy a dinner out with just the two of us, as I would sit in almost silence. My wife has pleaded with me over the years to find support (other than her) or help to deal with my issues. I would try to change, or see a counsellor or GP. But after a week or 2, I would go back into the same cycle.

 

Anyway, back at Xmas, she told me she no longer wanted to be with me and that she really meant it this time and that she had bought a single bed to go in our room for her to sleep in until we worked out other living arrangements. For the first 2 weeks, I felt sorry for myself, did nothing to change and ultimately made things worse. After that I went to a GP and started on some for of anti depressants, I've been seeing a counsellor once a week, and have made some real changes. My wife has said that she never thought I had it in me to make those changes, I talk a lot more, am able to communicate with her, her family and friends so much more freely, and on the whole, am a lot more different.

 

However, during the second week of February, I was made redundant from my job. My wife works at the same place as I did, although I was doing mornings, and she was doing evenings (we are both chefs). I found out that my boss, who made me redundant, and my wife, had "very strong feelings" for each other and had done since just before Xmas. Since then she has said she hasn't had anything to do with him (which I have found out to be untrue), then she changes her mind, again and again. She says the feelings she has for him make her feel like she can have a happy future, although she loves the family days she and I used to have with the kids. She even suggested that the two of us (although not together) could have those lovely days with the kids, but she could go home to the other guy and have that type of relationship with him. I told her that would be far too painful for me, that although I love our family days, I wouldn't be able to do that knowing we were no longer together. We have been in a limbo period since that second week of February, but she now says she doesn't want to be with either of us and that he is moving away to try and piece his life back together (he broke it off with his wife of 6 years with 2 kids to be with my wife). My wife says she wants space, that she just wants to concentrate on herself (she has a new business venture starting up) and the kids.

 

I still love her, and believe we could have the type of life we both want. I know how to communicate a lot easier now. Before I didn't show her affection, appreciation, nothing. However now, I'm finding it almost impossible not to show her all of these things. Part of me thinks that until she "tests the water" with the other guy, that she will never be able to get that feeling of "what if?" out of her head. And if he is actually moving away, and she really wants that space, then that may never happen. Although part of me wonders whether the reason she could never take things further with him (apparently he used to get frustrated and say that she couldn't let go of me) may be that she wants to see whether I can really push on with these changes, make some friends of my own and actually learn how to socialise. Her biggest worry when we were together, was that when the kids grew up and left home, that the two of us would have nothing. Nothing to talk about, nobody to socialise with, nothing. I can totally understand that, as the path we were on looked as though it was heading that way. However, I feel so totally committed to changing, that I see us having a lot more than just our kids.

 

Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated,

 

Thank you

[Wiseman2]

Sorry to hear this. Basically she's describing divorce with joint custody or having an affair. It seems she's beaten you down quite a bit because she doesn't understand introverts and is an extrovert who has to be in a crowd all the time. She also wants permission to have an affair while you stay home babysitting.

 

This chef/boss thing is bizarre. It may be best to take a three pronged approach.

1.Get employment asap.Work on a self improvement plan, but for yourself, work out, get new clothes, haircut,etc..

2.Consult an attorney privately to see what your options are regarding getting her out of the house and regarding custody etc.

3.Suggest marriage therapy to her.

She says the feelings she has for him make her feel like she can have a happy future, although she loves the family days she and I used to have with the kids. She even suggested that the two of us (although not together) could have those lovely days with the kids, but she could go home to the other guy and have that type of relationship with him.

[happyOJ]

Thanks for your reply. I have since found another job. I am back working where I was before I was made redundant, so I am surrounded by familiar faces, which is what I need at this point. I feel as though a lot of what she likes about him is due to the two of them working so closely together. Having worked as a chef myself for so many years, I understand the bonds created in that environment. Apparently he makes her laugh. Despite my anxieties, when I'm at work, in that kitchen environment, I make people laugh and vice versa. I am trying some forms of self improvement. I play golf with one of my mates on a weekly basis and when he's not around I'll even go alone, just to get out doing something. I had a poker night with some people I haven't seen for ages, although I need to organise another, or at least make more of an effort with continuing to force myself to socialise more regularly. As far as custody goes, she has said that she wants it to be 50 - 50, as much as possible. As far as living arrangements, things are a bit strange at the moment. Her grandfather is incredibly ill (doctors say he only has 2 months left to live, if that). So at the moment, she spends 4 nights a week at his house, caring for him, and I spend 3 nights there. When he does pass, it looks as though his house will be left to my wife's father and he will rent it to her. Obviously we don't know when this is going to happen and don't like to talk about it too much, obviously. This would mean, she would rent that house, I would continue to pay the mortgage on this house and the kids would spend the time between the two.

 

About a month ago (before she said she wanted space from both me and the other guy), I said that I was going to look for a room to rent somewhere, that I was going to take control of the situation and make that step toward separation. This caused her to say that she didn't want that, as that would be a step toward separation and she wasn't sure she wanted that, and if we could carry on in the current living arrangements until we were forced to make that decision one way or another.

 

As far as marriage therapy goes, she doesn't want that, as during this process, she has said she hasn't wanted to be with me anymore, although it has gone from that to being unsure if she wants to be with me or not, to now, having space away from me (although the last 4 months have been space away from me, although, now it is space from both of us). I feel that if she were willing to give us another shot, that marriage therapy would definitely help, and would certainly push for that.

[Wiseman2]

Excellent you got your job back and are staying busy with friends. Talk to a lawyer anyway to understand your options. Perhaps she could stay at the grandfather's full time and move in. That would be the best solution. Stop going there yourself, is this when she has her affair?

[Mari]

I recommend to stop thinking that she needs to get it out of her system with another guy. She already did that with her boss and it didn't work out. What she needs is you, socializing, going out, appreciating her and so forth. Do it now while you still can. Once she's with someone else it's a big chance she's going to come back to you.

[happyOJ]

She assures me that nothing "physical" has happened between them. Although I believe that, to a certain extent, I feel as though the odd kiss or embrace has more than likely happened. Although maybe that is me being in denial and a lot more has happened. I don't think he has been to her grandfathers house, as her whole family despises him and if they found out that he had been round there, all hell would break loose. I did however find out that he had been around at my house whilst I was staying with her grandfather. She said he just had "coffee and a chat". And for some reason I actually believe that. Although I made it abundantly clear that he cannot be in my home again, as it looks as though my future will be spent here with my children (50% of the time) and I don't want any more negative memories to have to deal with in my home. I believe if it had been me who had had an affair, I would never have been allowed to step foot in my home again, so part of me feels as though she should move into her grandfathers, or elsewhere. However, I am a bit more forgiving, and can understand that she didn't want this to happen, just as I didn't. That it just did. I accept my role in all of this, although I am not shouldering all of the blame, I understand for a long time I wasn't showing her affection, love, gratitude etc. So I want her to be able to spend time in her home with her children until a time comes where she is able to have a place of her own to share with the kids. I think I will talk to a lawyer, as although she says she doesn't want a divorce, whether she ends up with the other guy, by herself, or with somebody else for that matter, she never wants to get married again, and doesn't see the need. Although from my point of view, if she makes it clear that she no longer wants to be with me, then I think I'd need that divorce as some form of closure.

 

Thanks again

[happyOJ]

I worry that although things haven't quite worked out with her and her boss, that the reason it hasn't, is because she hasn't allowed herself to fully immerse herself in a relationship with him. They haven't been out for dinner, or spent the night with each other. Apart from hours and hours on the phone to each other, loads of intimate messages a few meetings at cafes, for coffee and all the time they spend at work together (a few hours of which are alone), they don't actually know one another that well. So I think in her mind, all these exciting, new feelings they have for each other, haven't been explored any further. I believe that they are just that, exciting and new, and that if they were to start an actual relationship, things may fizzle out. But deep down, I think she feels as though she wants to explore things further in case it is the real thing.

I am really trying to work on myself, as far as socialising etc goes. And I have been trying to show her as much appreciation as I can, given the situation. I made her a massive photo collage with pictures of the kids for mothers day (as a gift from the kids). She said it was the nicest thing I had ever got her. And I am trying to show her how serious I am about change. I will continue to work on myself, as I know that either way, it is something that I need to do for myself, for my own future, whether she is a part of it or not.

[Mari]

She assures me that nothing "physical" has happened between them. Although I believe that, to a certain extent, I feel as though the odd kiss or embrace has more than likely happened. Although maybe that is me being in denial and a lot more has happened.

...

 

So I want her to be able to spend time in her home with her children until a time comes where she is able to have a place of her own to share with the kids. I think I will talk to a lawyer, as although she says she doesn't want a divorce, whether she ends up with the other guy, by herself, or with somebody else for that matter, she never wants to get married again, and doesn't see the need. Although from my point of view, if she makes it clear that she no longer wants to be with me, then I think I'd need that divorce as some form of closure.

 

Thanks again

 

So you're you and you have options as to where you can put in your effort.

 

You could put effort into finding all the details of what happened and all this would do is make it harder for you to run the relationship with her. And it's not like you don't have any fault in this so why not, instead of putting your effort here, put it where things can actually get better?

 

Same with the divorce. She says she's not interested in marriage, because so far what that's meant is live in silence and raise kids. You could put effort in getting a divorce for closure, or instead, push for not getting a divorce since what difference would a divorce make since she's not interested in marriage anyway. Why put your kids through two homes, dragging their luggage around, their toothbrush, toys etc. And then pay $20K to fight over what you have just to get closure. Instead have her stay with you, don't worry about what would've happened if you cheated. Just have her stay with you, put your effort in changing yourself and show her these changes. Once you've changed and are a different person and you've done 3 months of the new you then check if she's interested. If she's not interested in starting over then consider your options. If you divorce her now it doesn't help anyone, it just gives you closure over something you don't need closure for, you need things to improve.

[Mari]

I worry that although things haven't quite worked out with her and her boss, that the reason it hasn't, is because she hasn't allowed herself to fully immerse herself in a relationship with him. They haven't been out for dinner, or spent the night with each other. Apart from hours and hours on the phone to each other, loads of intimate messages a few meetings at cafes, for coffee and all the time they spend at work together (a few hours of which are alone), they don't actually know one another that well. So I think in her mind, all these exciting, new feelings they have for each other, haven't been explored any further. I believe that they are just that, exciting and new, and that if they were to start an actual relationship, things may fizzle out. But deep down, I think she feels as though she wants to explore things further in case it is the real thing.

I am really trying to work on myself, as far as socializing etc goes. And I have been trying to show her as much appreciation as I can, given the situation. I made her a massive photo collage with pictures of the kids for mothers day (as a gift from the kids). She said it was the nicest thing I had ever got her. And I am trying to show her how serious I am about change. I will continue to work on myself, as I know that either way, it is something that I need to do for myself, for my own future, whether she is a part of it or not.

 

So yes, eventually the honeymoon period fizzles out. What does matter is the person you're with is good and shows you that you matter to them. Right now you've offered that you care but you will not show it her. Her married life of silence with you is a pretty darn low bar for another guy to get over. And this is the bar you need to raise. It would've been great if you realized it earlier but now that you've seen where it takes you, change now. It's going to be tough not being depressed and sad about this but you've gotta stay focused on getting out of this. And the way out right now is to improve and raise that bar. The rest doesn't matter until you fix this. If you don't fix this then all that effort you have that could be going in to fixing it is going to go in being depressed.

[happyOJ]

That is a really refreshing way of looking at things. I don't know why I haven't looked at it quite like that before. At least this way, although things may be in limbo, I can hopefully continue to change, try as hard as I can not to put any pressure on her with regards to making our marriage work and hopefully she will see who I have become and will be willing to give me another chance. I am still worried that she will be unable to forget about all the great feelings she has for the other guy, but I guess that is all out of my control. What will be, will be, with regards to him and her. As you say, all I can focus on is myself and hopefully she will begin to develop positive feelings for me again.

Thank you

[abitbroken]

You cannot expect things to change unless you also work towards change. While I don't condone cheating at all, I can understand why she felt a little strained - her husband is funny and loose at work, but she can't go out with her husband socially - and its not even a compromise. Its not like you just don't do big crowds - you can't even go out to dinner just the two of you and have a nice conversation and a romantic evening. She doesn't want a life where the only time she has her at ease husband is when you are with the kids unless she stays in the house.

 

So you focus on getting yourself help 100% - because otherwise - does she really want to try again if things are just the same. Maybe this is the wake up call you needed to get help. I agree - the silent treatment is a very low bar to set.

 

Honestly, I would divorce her if you think she is cheating - but if you do not want that, you have to be the husband she needs. And it would be a change for the better for your own life if she doesn't ultimately decide to stay married. I am not saying go from introverted to extroverted if thats not you - but as an introvert, I can have a wonderful meal with my guy at a restaurant. Even though i don't like parties so much - there could be 1,000 people at that restaurant and its really just the two of us and that's all i notice.

[Iggy5129]

I dated a guy that was separated from his wife and still living at home. She thought we were just friends. He would lie about it so he wouldn't be kicked out and homeless. We were definitely sleeping together. I'm not proud of it and it was the worst relationship of my life but I'm telling you this to open your eyes. She's softening the blow and trying to postpone having to fully move out and figure out her life.

 

I can almost guarantee that more than "chat and coffee" happened at your house. I know it's not what you want to hear but you need to. You need to rip the band aid off and fully separate your lives.

[thealchemist]

You said that the other guy left his wife and kids for your wife. You also said they are not fully intimate. If a guy is going to leave his wife and kids for another women in these circumstances, then I can't imagine they haven't had sex. That is ludicrous. Your wife is almost assuredly sleeping with this dude. So she is lying to you and taking advantage of you. Sleeping with her fling while your at her relative's house taking care of them is pretty bad. I know you feel like you caused everything but that is too much for you to try to claim responsibility for. Pull the veil off your eyes. Sorry to hear all this, sounds terrible.