Please Please Read- Need Advice Did he ever love me?

[Wiseman2]

Have you read this book?: The Peter Pan Syndrome: Men Who Have Never Grown Up

 

"Psychologist Dan Kiley, who defined ‘Peter Pan Syndrome’ in 1983, also used the term ‘Wendy Syndrome’ to describe women who act like mothers with their partners or people close to them. Wendy is the woman behind Peter Pan. She is that someone who deals with the things Peter Pan doesn’t do, in order for him to “survive”.

 

She is the one making every decision, taking on all of “Peter Pan’s” responsibilities, and so, she justifies his unreliability. She is the overprotecting mother prototype. Both “Peter Pan” and “Wendy” do not acknowledge that they are having a problem, they aren’t aware of it. The only solution for it is psychological treatment, not only centered on the person, but also on the partner and the family.

 

The Wendy Syndrome is about women who are very dependent upon their mates in a special way. They mother their mates, treating them like immature children. These women usually state, “I feel like I have three children, instead of two, because I have my husband, too.” The Wendy woman attempts to control situations with her man through inappropriate mothering. She is a very insecure woman who cannot handle anger, either her own or her partner’s. By taking on a maternal role toward her mate, she feels protected from the possible rejection and abandonment that, in her opinion, inevitably results from exchanges of anger.

 

According to Dr. Kiley, certain conditions have to exist before a woman is transformed into a Wendy. “She must suffer to some degree from a fear of rejection, perpetuate a negative self image through an inner voice of inferiority, and become so dedicated to her social image that she fails to examine her true personal life”.

 

Symptoms of the Wendy Syndrome:

 

- lacking in self-identity;

 

- missing opinions of their own and being not in touch with their own likes or dislikes;

 

- basing their security on the approval of others;

 

- presenting an acceptable social image is of high importance;

 

Eight typical behaviors of women caught in the so called “Wendy trap”:

 

1. The woman denies that problems exist.

 

2. She tends to start believing that her mate cannot survive without her. The truth is Peter Pan is unwilling, not unable to shoulder the responsibility which is causing problems.

 

3. Possessiveness – This occurs when “Wendy” starts feeling dependent upon her mate, feeling that she cannot survive emotionally or perhaps financially without him.

 

4. Complaining – Complaining can be a healthy form of assertiveness, as long as it’s handled appropriately.

 

5. Guilt inducing – Guilt is a poor motivator. Under such conditions, the subject resents being coerced into a certain behavior. He may do what she wants, but he’ll be mad at her for ‘making’ him do it.

 

6. She shoulders an enormous degree of responsibility for her husbands and her children, in attempts to minimize her high anxiety level. In the meanwhile, the man’s fear of rejection and habitual guilt feelings have usually led him into a passive “yes, dear” stance where he will superficially agree with his spouse to avoid arguments, but then continues his own behavior without changing, frustrating her more and more. The man engages in a great deal of passive-aggressive behavior, indirectly expressing his pent-up hostility toward his mate.

 

7. The Wendy woman will begin to vacillate between being a martyr and punishing her man (spending money on things she really doesn’t want and that the family really can’t afford, becoming hypochondriacal, and expecting him to take her to many doctor’s appointments, withholding of sex). There is a high risk for her getting involved in an outside affair where she feels she can obtain the warmth that is missing in her own relationship.

 

8. The Wendy woman will “hit bottom”. When this occurs, she feels that she has exhausted all of her coping strategies. That is when the Wendy woman usually turns to professional counselors for help".

[SherrySher]

I hope you don't fall for his words of him saying 'he's so overwhelmed' '.....he's going through a process'...all that is, is lame excuses to not give you any straight answers. He refuses to commit to you in any way, shape or form, so much so that he won't even answer a simple question. This guy is a joke, I'm sorry OP, but he is. If someone wants to be fair to someone you at least tell them yes or no...not silence and than excuses.

 

But you are right, he has no problems making plans for the party bus. I am embarrassed for him.. a party bus at 40 something! *shaking my head*.

 

You are a lot stronger than you give yourself credit for OP. You'll have good days and bad days. Days where you feel stronger than other days, and days where it feels like it's ten steps forward and two steps back. It's okay...healing is a process and it will take time. Juts keep focusing on moving forward and your days where you feel stronger and need him less, will become more and more, until you get to a point where you will wonder how this man ever had control over you and won't ever want/need him again.

[MissCanuck]

He can make plans. He can follow through. Just not when it comes to a relationship. But make not mistake, he chooses not to.

 

You can do so much better, OP. This guy is immature and a hypocrite. He wants a devoted mom for his kids, but where is Dad? Partying and drinking and not coming home until all hours. Such devotion!

 

I get a very bad feeling from your description of him. He had that whole house idea worked out rather nicely, huh? You sell your home and pay off his debts. And voila! Now we're a happy family! Yeah, no. He couldn't even be bothered to show up for dates, and he expected you to bail him out of debt? He was definitely a sly one. Imagine what married life would have been like: you pacing in front of the window late at night, watching for him, twiddling your wedding ring, wondering just when the heck your husband will be bothered to come home. To the house you clean and manage. To the kids you care for. To the shiny Amex he'll be racking up again thanks to the sale of your home. OP - you wouldn't have had the life you envision with this clown.

 

And please, don't believe him when he says he's "overwhelmed" and going through a "process." Right. That process probably somehow also involves the female friend he kissed. I hate to be harsh, but you need to stay away from this man. He's slick.

 

You are a good woman with a lot to offer, by the sounds of it. Your picker broke down, but you can repair it and polish it up and choose more wisely next time.

[Heartbroken234]

You guys are amazing!!!!! Thank you !!

 

He is the king of mixed signals/cold & hot- Its so hurtful and confusing to me The night of the kiss- It was a date to me. It was. I was coming to get my stuff- He was like- Lets get a bite to eat, which turned into a long drive after, and coffee- We laughed, sang to the radio- it was just like we were back together. I love him When we got back to his house- It wasnt just business, like- Okay now get your stuff- We sat on the couch and talked and talked......when we kissed- he freaked. I kissed him- I admit it. I did. It felt right in the moment He was like "now youre gonna get all confused- I dont want this. I cant process this. I cant handle this right now" But I was already confused from just having pretty much a date with you and us texting whenever you needed me???? He is so smart the way he twists things. He is so so smart and I believe him.

 

I did not ask to get back together- I know nothing would change now- I just asked how he felt, and he flipped out. He kept saying to me- I didnt ask for this, you did???? Why are you pressuring- Things just happen naturally and now you ruined it??? What?? Naturally is me being available when he needs me, and going away when he doesnt??? I just wanted to know what I meant to him. If he doesnt want or cant process kissing me, how is he kissing that girl and posted a pic of them on FB- which he deleted like 3 hours later Shes a drinker too in that crowd- with huge boobs, a fake tan and tons of make-up and dresses very provocatively. He is very very picky- He always has beautiful women. He is very picky with appearances. Im more natural. He always said he loved how natural I was and that I was the most beautiful to him.....I guess not bc this one is everything I am not. I do not drink, I dress conservatively (I always have- I am very modest), I have medium size natural boobs lolololol and I dont wear much make-up. It hurt me very much- This is what he wants???

 

I truly feel like- he wants me on the back burner. Text me, give me "just enough" to keep me interested. But hes free to party as much as possible and see what happens with this girl. And when the day comes he feels done, and if things dont progress w this girl......then there I am.

 

I did see that- I did. My head sees, my heart wants him tho My last text to him were these words. "I have asked nothing of you. No relationship, no time commitment, no nothing. There is no pressure- Why are you saying this and getting so angry? I dont understand why your back is against a wall. I just asked how you felt. Because all the texting keeps me in love with you. I can see from the way you are responding that you do not love me. You may not want to say it in so many words, but you have made it clear. I need to be fair to my heart. I said I will never leave you, but I feel you want me to go away, so I am going away and will never bother you again. I wish you luck with you house and everything and I apologize for wanting to kiss last night. I wish you the best"

 

he read it- no response- Theres been no contact since UGH Thank u everyone xoxo

[journeynow]

But on the weekends he didnt have them, he rarely made plans with me unless I asked, and it kinda became like I was nagging and we would have a fight. I wanted him to want to see me. I just wanted his time. He wanted to be w the drinking crowd and he never would invite me.

 

…. I felt like I was begging him for some time and attention in his busy life- he made time for the friends and to drink but not me. I ended up breaking it off with him shortly after the holidays. I said to him- I feel like a burden on your time. Im not a priority to you and I need to be I need to feel important to you and not be in last place in your life.

 

….I feel like hes keeping me in his back pocket-

 

I truly feel like- he wants me on the back burner. Text me, give me "just enough" to keep me interested.

 

My last text to him were these words. "I have asked nothing of you. No relationship, no time commitment, no nothing. There is no pressure- Why are you saying this and getting so angry? I dont understand why your back is against a wall. I just asked how you felt. Because all the texting keeps me in love with you. ….

 

Be careful that you are not also giving mixed messages. Sounds like you did want a relationship, you wanted time, you wanted more of a partner. Be careful about letting yourself be used (cooking, cleaning, care-taking)…it is almost as if you climbed into his back pocket while he was too busy and his priorities were elsewhere. Take it slower than your high school self would have, you have more complications when children and home ownership and divorces are part of the picture; you need time to get to know the whole person and understand where incompatibilities lie. Texting, words, sharing food and a drive, those are easy. Don't read too much into those moments. Remember the whole picture and overall actions.

[Heartbroken234]

TYSM Journey- You are right. I allowed every bit of it. Once I fell in love with him, I literally would have done anything for him. Again, I felt like I was helping him. I just wanted to make him happy. He said all the right things, and I took everything he said as truth. His actions didnt match- It hurt me- but I either stayed silent, or if I did say something, he made me feel like I nagged or was being needy- When all I wanted was a minimal time investment from him. I do take the blame too- Because I allowed every bit of it.

 

When I broke up with him- I told him, in a nice way, how I felt and he was shocked. Weve been apart now 3 months- the texting never really stopped- and I admot- if I saw a text from him, my heart skipped a beat. But I see now he was using me again- for advice, for comfort, for boredom....but I allowed it again. Because I craved his attention. Its embarrassing to admit- but i did.

 

I am trying to be strong- my nature is to be very soft hearted. But by letting him treat me this way- I am dying inside. This is not the relationship I want or need. If I accept it- I teach him its ok to treat me like this, and I know its not. Its just hard when you love someone- I would take any contact from him as opposed to nothing. But I have to value myself and my own heart more than that. Thank you

[Wiseman2]

Work on yourself, not fix him or anyone else. Get in shape, new clothes, hair, etc, Join some single parent groups. Join some clubs and organisations, volunteer. Take lessons, classes, courses.

 

Have fun. Don't be a martyr or try to help, fix or change anyone.

 

Get out of family and mom mode and back into single woman mode. Get a nice profile and pics on some dating apps. Start browsing for who's out there. When ready, start talking to and meeting men for coffee.

[Heartbroken234]

TYSM Wiseman- I am very in shape. I run 4 miles a day and kickbox lol its my stress relief. I also am a professional baker and run my own business- Again, a job where theres literally no single men. I dont however have any single friends all of my friends are happily married couples. Its tough and lonely. I think a part of my sadness is im alone again- Im not a couple anymore My x moved out of state- I care for my kids full-time. He rarely sees them. I am in mom mode pretty much always and I love being a mom and I love my kids more than anything. Im not "out there" Im very shy. I met this man at school. I thought it was fate. Im very reserved. Its hard for me

 

You are right tho- I do need to re-define myself. I do. I am going to try to take this time to refocus my pain from him into something positive for me. I feel like I live my life for others. Im a mom, a friend, a baker, the PTA, school, a sister..... I have to find out who I am without all of that. I am lost in it- I am lost in my service to everyone else in my life. I miss him so much- Im gonna try to take that energy to find myself. Thank you!!

[shellyf62]

You say he is a good dad but I totally disagree. He dumped those poor kids on you whenever he could. That isnt being a good dad, that is taking advantage of people & showing his kids they dont matter in his life.

 

He sounds like a total loser & I really hope you have blocked his number so he doesnt contact you for a booty call when his young friends get tired of him!

[MissCanuck]

It sounds to me like he's actually seeing someone else (probably the woman he kissed) and he got "overwhelmed" because he's feeling guilty. That anger? Projection. I would bet my bottom dollar there's more to this female friend than he let on, and he gets angry as a means of deflecting and blaming you for the breakdown of the relationship. Don't fall for it.

 

Stay away from him. Block him on your phone and social media. You're comparing yourself to his drinking buddies and it's very unhealthy for you. So Stifler likes boozin' with women who are the opposite of you - so what? It's Stifler, for heaven's sake. Surely his opinion on what is attractive and desirable is not the universal definition? Why do you give his opinion so much value?

 

You need to re-frame the way you think and talk about yourself. You are positioning yourself as a very sad person, with few options and no confidence. But eff that noise, girl! Where is your positive self-talk? Where are your cojones? That's what you should focus on, so you don't let men like this into your life.

 

Think about it: you're a kick-boxing business owner who raises her kids all on her own, with a big heart and a solid head on her shoulders. Remember that. Don't allow a party-bus-lovin' man-child who needs a woman to bail him out of debt and raise his kids for him to knock you down like that.

[chitown9]

This guy is just a looser and an alcoholic to boot. His drinking is just going to escalate because that is just the way it goes. I am sorry that you suffered through this and that it cost you so dearly financially. A very expensive lesson in many ways. I think that you just needed this to be a good thing for you so bad that you lied to yourself about what was really going on. You do need to pick yourself up and start all over again.....but this time.....be very, very cautious before you jump in. You sound like a nice woman, and maybe too nice, if there is such a thing. Just need to become more discerning. I wish you the best. You really deserve it. chi

[Heartbroken234]

You know what MissCanuck- You are probably right. He probably is seeing her. Or he desperately wants to. Hes posting stupid stuff on her FB with emojis- thats how he flirts- he used to do it to me. What gets me is the lie- "I dont want a relationship right now. I have to fix my life. I cant focus on anything else. Im in a process and Im a mess i need to do this alone" okay...... thats what he tells me, but hes kissing this girl and if they arent dating, then I know he wants to.

 

he had tears in his eyes after we kissed???? i cant do this- i cant process this- but you kissed the other girl no problem???

 

Its hurtful to me- I was so good to this man and love him unconditionally. I treated his kids as my own. I just wanted his time. You dont tell ppl u love them and want to marry them if you dont mean it- I feel stupid I believed him. I truly did.

 

I know I shouldnt feel this way- But I feel like- whats wrong with me? Why? Why am I not worth it to him? Hes very very into appearances- Does he think Im not pretty enough? Why was I not good enough? I know this is bad thinking, but, its hard not to fall into this trap- especially when hes pursuing this other girl who has boobs the size of globes.

[Heartbroken234]

You really think hes an alcoholic? He does drink I mean not everyday but pretty much- Beer. But he has such a high tolerance- Ive rarely ever seen him drunk. He is 1000% obsessed with the partying. I dont know how he is when hes out at bars like that because I was never included or invited. He does say that he drinks away his sorrows. It numbs everything- he has told me that. I didnt do anything financially with him- It was just talked about, but it didnt actually happen.

 

We have had no contact now since Sunday- The early mornings and late nights are hard for me because he would text every day at those times. I miss him Im trying. I saw good in him- I feel so stupid

[MissCanuck]

You need to delete him from Facebook. There is zero benefit to seeing him flirt with his bar-thangs, is there?

 

This other girl's appearance is evidently magnifying your own insecurities and making you doubt yourself. Don't tacitly hand over that much power to your ex, to determine how attractive you are. Anyway, if he is as focused on looks as you say he is, he would never have dated you at all if you were unattractive. Correct? So stop putting so much emphasis on this being a matter of physical appearance, my friend. It's not about that. It's about him wanting to party like he's 21 with no responsibilities, and he cannot handle the reasonable expectations that come with a mature relationship. He's mentally way behind you.

 

Also, in my opinion, the concept of loving some unconditionally is flawed. The condition should be that if you are continuously neglected or mistreated, you remove yourself. Trying to love someone into wanting to be with you is futile.

 

You would be far better to do some inner work, and begin to identify your own boundaries and deal-breakers. Figure out where you are going to draw the lines next time. And aim higher than a 40-year-old drunk.

[Heartbroken234]

MissCanuck- You are so empowering. Again, you are right. IDKY Im looking- Its crazy. Im so not a crazy person and hes made me crazy UGH The way she looks does magnify my insecurities- Shes an attractive girl- I have no issue w that. But its the kind of girl she is. He would always tell me he hated the fake boob, fake tan, fake duck lip girls.....they were gross.....and guess what she is????? Im so confused. I feel like he lied to me so many times- Or he is just a mess ans has no idea what he wants bc I have nothing fake. Hes driving me crazy. I do have to block- but its lie Im a glutton for punishment- If I block him its the final piece of letting go- and a part of me doesnt want to. Im 38 years old- I should so totally know better. he has me feeling like a teenager w this broken heart- its terrible UGH im trying to be strong i pray each day gets easier and one day- i wont even think of him. xoxo

[boltnrun]

You won't stop thinking about him if you're looking at his social media and still in contact with him.

 

Think about this...do you want to be in this exact same situation in 10 years? If not, why would you want to be in it now?

[chitown9]

To answer your question as to why I think he is alcoholic, I base it on this premise. Alcohol is of the highest priority in his life. It is his up most priority. His drinking will escalate. You don't want to be around for that. It can get worse, and believe me, it will. I am certified in chemical dependency, so I feel qualified to define him as an alcoholic. He is a binge drinker, and that is even worse for his health because he is more prone to stoke than if he drank every single day I am glad that you loose any money in this deal. I thought that you sold your house or something to help him out....but, yeah.....you need to loose this guy like quick. chi