Compulsive liar?

[david1967]

Hi, thanks first of all for reading this and / or responding - I'll try to keep it brief, as I struggle to read long posts myself.

 

So, nearly 2 years ago, I bought a house with my partner of 2 years - we both sold our existing houses in order to have a fresh start (we are in our 40's, I have a an adult son, her son is 12 and lives with us). I should also point out that we own the property jointly, have a joint bank account for bills, etc. but other than that our finances are separate.

 

A few things have happened over the last week, which has made me question what I have done and whether or not to continue with this relationship.

 

Firstly, a decent amount money went missing from my wallet last week - I don't usually know exactly what is in there, but I did on this occasion, so I got suspicious. Some more then disappeared over the weekend, so I confronted her regarding this to which she was shocked and disgusted that I should accuse her of such a thing. However, I was able to prove to her that the notes in her purse had been taken from my wallet, which despite absolute proof, she still denied, then eventually confessed to it, claiming that she was just borrowing it for a week to pay off a credit card and would replace it on pay day. I couldn't prove about the first amount that had gone, which again was initially denied but then eventually she admitted to that too. I also established that it was not actually necessary for her to do this in order to pay the credit card as there was enough money in her account, which I asked to see.

 

Over the same weekend, I also suspected that she had been accessing my mobile phone, whilst I was in the shower, out of the room, etc. I also confronted her about this, which again was initially denied claiming that she didn't know my PIN code. After I demonstrated to her how I knew it had been accessed, she confessed... this had also happened before we moved in with each other and I let it go as she promised never to do that again. I also know it had happened whilst on holiday last summer as my iPhone was nearly completely locked out after I had changed the PIN following suspicions - again, I let it go. I find this to be an invasion of privacy and would gladly let her look through my phone and emails if she asked - I have nothing to hide. She also often asks very suspiciously who I'm texting or chatting to on Facebook and she admits she has trust issues due to her previous relationships.

 

There has also been another issue regarding money and her inability to pay off debts, whilst continuing to incur more on a store directory website. A few months ago she announced that all debts were clear and that she didn't owe anyone anything - this week, I have found out that was not the case as it had just been moved to a different credit card and she had also reopened the store directory account that had been closed, again spending money on there instead of paying off what she already owed on a credit card. I appreciate that this is her choice, but its the very convincing lying and having secrets that really annoys and disappoints me. I don't wish to mention the amounts of money involved here, but most people would consider them significant.

 

After initially feeling angry, I now feel very let down, upset, sad and that I just don't know who she is and whether or not to ever believe anything she says. In her defence, she is extremely remorseful and vows never to do any of the above again, but I honestly don't know what to believe. She also says she wants to rebuild my trust and will do what ever it takes to save our relationship.

 

I've invested a lot in this and was in love with her... I don't know how I feel right now.

 

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts who has experienced anything similar and how it turned out.

[Wiseman2]

Sorry this is going on. Is this new? The compulsive spending and lying are something a therapist may be able to get at the root of. Don't take her word for anything (and get a safety deposit box) but definitely ask her to address this through a professional. Could she be covering for her son as far as missing cash goes?

[youngwoman]

She can only change if she wants to, and because of what she's doing I'd say cut ties. I used to have a bad spending habit in college, but at some point people need to grow up. She has a child and is ten years older than me acting like I was in college, ridiculous. I have a savings account now and only spend what I have. Cut your losses with her and trying to go through your phone and wallet then lying about it should be a deal breaker.

[DancingFool]

I kind of wondered the same thing as Wiseman - is she by chance covering for her son's stealing? Then again, when you combine it with everything else, the compulsive shopping, spending, stealing - she needs psychiatric help big time. She is not going to overcome the issues that typically drive this kind of behavior with promises to never do it again. She means what she says, but I doubt she is capable of following through without counseling and professional intervention to address what is really broken with her.

 

Anyway, if you care about her, then tell her straight up that only way for things to have a chance between you two is for her to go to therapy and actually work on her issues. Not negotiable. If she won't go, then you can at least walk away knowing you've tried.

[Hollyj]

Hi, thanks first of all for reading this and / or responding - I'll try to keep it brief, as I struggle to read long posts myself.

 

So, nearly 2 years ago, I bought a house with my partner of 2 years - we both sold our existing houses in order to have a fresh start (we are in our 40's, I have a an adult son, her son is 12 and lives with us). I should also point out that we own the property jointly, have a joint bank account for bills, etc. but other than that our finances are separate.

 

A few things have happened over the last week, which has made me question what I have done and whether or not to continue with this relationship.

 

Firstly, a decent amount money went missing from my wallet last week - I don't usually know exactly what is in there, but I did on this occasion, so I got suspicious. Some more then disappeared over the weekend, so I confronted her regarding this to which she was shocked and disgusted that I should accuse her of such a thing. However, I was able to prove to her that the notes in her purse had been taken from my wallet, which despite absolute proof, she still denied, then eventually confessed to it, claiming that she was just borrowing it for a week to pay off a credit card and would replace it on pay day. I couldn't prove about the first amount that had gone, which again was initially denied but then eventually she admitted to that too. I also established that it was not actually necessary for her to do this in order to pay the credit card as there was enough money in her account, which I asked to see.

 

Over the same weekend, I also suspected that she had been accessing my mobile phone, whilst I was in the shower, out of the room, etc. I also confronted her about this, which again was initially denied claiming that she didn't know my PIN code. After I demonstrated to her how I knew it had been accessed, she confessed... this had also happened before we moved in with each other and I let it go as she promised never to do that again. I also know it had happened whilst on holiday last summer as my iPhone was nearly completely locked out after I had changed the PIN following suspicions - again, I let it go. I find this to be an invasion of privacy and would gladly let her look through my phone and emails if she asked - I have nothing to hide. She also often asks very suspiciously who I'm texting or chatting to on Facebook and she admits she has trust issues due to her previous relationships.

 

There has also been another issue regarding money and her inability to pay off debts, whilst continuing to incur more on a store directory website. A few months ago she announced that all debts were clear and that she didn't owe anyone anything - this week, I have found out that was not the case as it had just been moved to a different credit card and she had also reopened the store directory account that had been closed, again spending money on there instead of paying off what she already owed on a credit card. I appreciate that this is her choice, but its the very convincing lying and having secrets that really annoys and disappoints me. I don't wish to mention the amounts of money involved here, but most people would consider them significant.

 

After initially feeling angry, I now feel very let down, upset, sad and that I just don't know who she is and whether or not to ever believe anything she says. In her defence, she is extremely remorseful and vows never to do any of the above again, but I honestly don't know what to believe. She also says she wants to rebuild my trust and will do what ever it takes to save our relationship.

 

I've invested a lot in this and was in love with her... I don't know how I feel right now.

 

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts who has experienced anything similar and how it turned out.

 

Yeah. after you proved that she had done these things. Remember, she was not honest before or after you approached her. She lied, until you proved r that she was lying.

 

Your relationship has trust, compulsive spending and theft issues. Is this something you can live with? She has to want to seek therapy, or things will not work.

[Betterwithout]

I suspect it might have been the son stealing. 12 year old boys, or their friends can have sticky fingers.

 

Financial issues can fracture a couple and can be resolved through careful planning and habit changing,

but trust issues break relationships daily.

Blatantly dishonest behaviour is not cool. Some can let a few little white lies go, but when they continue after "sorry, it won't happen again"

one has to wonder what else is being hidden from you.

 

Is there a major difference of incomes between the two of you?

Do you have some sort of agreement writing (or at least verbal) stating what happens to the house if things tank between you?

[nutbrownhare]

Without trust you have nothing. She has already promised not to look at your phone without your permission, and has nevertheless done so. She is suspicious of you, which is a reflection of her own shady nature rather than anything to do with you. If your money was in her purse, it doesn't sound like she was covering up for her son, either.

 

Of course she's full of remorse, but that's very unlikely to stop her in the future. She has lied repeatedly, and persisted in lies even when you presented her with the evidence.

 

You will obviously make up your own mind, but I couldn't cope with someone like this. I get that you've invested a lot in this relationship, but to continue it reminds me of a gambler who continues to play precisely BECAUSE so much has already been lost. Don't do it!

[Boughtandpaidfor]

From what you wrote, it seems like a genuine problem (a very unhealthy blind spot), as opposed to her being fundamentally untrustworthy.

 

As others have said, she isn't going to change unless she wants to. I had a friend who was in a 12 step fellowship called Debtors Anonymous. One of the symptoms was "a sense of entitlement to others' money".

 

Remorse and recommitment are part of the cycle so it always comes around again. If she is defensively demanding that you trust her, and that it won't happen again, I wouldn't trust that at all. It's a manipulation within the cycle of debting.

 

Unless she can admit it's a problem though you still have the fundamental deceit. And why is she lying to you? Why can't she just ask you for the money? Do you have a parent/child dynamic? Are you policing her? Are these roles you've fallen into? They can be very hard to break.

 

Firm boundaries are really important because kindness and patience are the first victims of issues like this. But it's also good to have a look at possible codependency (i.e. are you her policeman?)

 

Doesn't change the fact that stealing and lying is a big deal.

[catfeeder]

The first person I'd consult is a lawyer to learn what my options are.

[david1967]

Sorry this is going on. Is this new? The compulsive spending and lying are something a therapist may be able to get at the root of. Don't take her word for anything (and get a safety deposit box) but definitely ask her to address this through a professional. Could she be covering for her son as far as missing cash goes?

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

The compulsive spending is certainly not new, as I had to help her sort her finances out a few years ago, after which she promised not to get in such a mess again. She claims she's not going overdrawn at the bank, but instead of paying off a credit card, chooses not to do this but spend any available cash on yet more clothes that I can assure you are not essential purchases. At the same time, she moves the credit card balance (£700-800) to another card and declares that she does not owe anyone any money, which is clearly not the case (I did not ask for this declaration, it was voluntary from her).

 

With regards to the lying, I have picked up on small white lies to me before, nothing on this scale, but it just makes me wonder what else has not been the truth?

 

She is not covering for her son as I was able to prove she had taken a specific note that was in her purse; I'm not aware of any other stealing from me before, but there could have been.

[david1967]

I kind of wondered the same thing as Wiseman - is she by chance covering for her son's stealing? Then again, when you combine it with everything else, the compulsive shopping, spending, stealing - she needs psychiatric help big time. She is not going to overcome the issues that typically drive this kind of behavior with promises to never do it again. She means what she says, but I doubt she is capable of following through without counseling and professional intervention to address what is really broken with her.

 

Anyway, if you care about her, then tell her straight up that only way for things to have a chance between you two is for her to go to therapy and actually work on her issues. Not negotiable. If she won't go, then you can at least walk away knowing you've tried.

 

She is not covering for her son as I was able to prove she had taken a specific note that was in her purse; I'm not aware of any other stealing from me before, but there could have been.

 

She is very willing to seek professional help as she realises she has issues and has already seen her GP and is on a waiting list for counselling. She also vows never to steal, snoop or lie to me ever again and has offered to give me full access to her finances (which I'd rather not have tbh).

[david1967]

I suspect it might have been the son stealing. 12 year old boys, or their friends can have sticky fingers.

 

Financial issues can fracture a couple and can be resolved through careful planning and habit changing,

but trust issues break relationships daily.

Blatantly dishonest behaviour is not cool. Some can let a few little white lies go, but when they continue after "sorry, it won't happen again"

one has to wonder what else is being hidden from you.

 

Is there a major difference of incomes between the two of you?

Do you have some sort of agreement writing (or at least verbal) stating what happens to the house if things tank between you?

 

She is not covering for her son as I was able to prove she had taken a specific note that was in her purse; I'm not aware of any other stealing from me before, but there could have been.

 

There is a difference in incomes between us, but in terms of net disposable income there isn't much in it really, as I pay the rather large mortgage. We have a Declaration of Trust document with regards to the house, so no worries on that front.

[david1967]

From what you wrote, it seems like a genuine problem (a very unhealthy blind spot), as opposed to her being fundamentally untrustworthy.

 

As others have said, she isn't going to change unless she wants to. I had a friend who was in a 12 step fellowship called Debtors Anonymous. One of the symptoms was "a sense of entitlement to others' money".

 

Remorse and recommitment are part of the cycle so it always comes around again. If she is defensively demanding that you trust her, and that it won't happen again, I wouldn't trust that at all. It's a manipulation within the cycle of debting.

 

Unless she can admit it's a problem though you still have the fundamental deceit. And why is she lying to you? Why can't she just ask you for the money? Do you have a parent/child dynamic? Are you policing her? Are these roles you've fallen into? They can be very hard to break.

 

Firm boundaries are really important because kindness and patience are the first victims of issues like this. But it's also good to have a look at possible codependency (i.e. are you her policeman?)

 

Doesn't change the fact that stealing and lying is a big deal.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Your comments regarding it being a genuine problem are interesting, as she is generally a lovely person, but what has crossed my mind recently is, is it all just fake? She is defensively demanding that I trust her again, that she will seek counselling and do everything possible to rebuild my trust and my love for her. She's also not giving me time to think and demanding to know if we have a future or not, its all very stressful right now.

 

What do you mean by policing her? If you mean with regarding finances, I had to help her sort out her debt a few years ago (before we moved in together) by reorganising credit, drastically reducing interest paid, etc. - I'm good at that sort of thing and she was very grateful. Additionally, we went on holiday last year, for which she was to contribute £1,000, which I still have not seen any of - instead she chose to spend considerable amounts of money on clothing. I found out about this 3-4 months ago and was obviously not happy - I don't want to have to manage her money for her, but when there is continual, habitual issues like this, it is very, very difficult not to be curious. Following that issue, she closed the store directory account in question, but has again recently re-opened it, bought yet more items instead of paying off another £700-800 credit card. I just don't understand that, especially as she kept that from me and declared that she was not longer in debt (having moved the debt to another card).

 

She has, however, already taken steps to get counselling for her spending habits and lying, plus promised never to access my phone again. I do actually believe she is committed to resolve all of these issues, telling me that she has made one mistake, which I can forgive her for, but I honestly don't know if I have the energy for this relationship anymore.

[nutbrownhare]

I do actually believe she is committed to resolve all of these issues, telling me that she has made one mistake, which I can forgive her for, but I honestly don't know if I have the energy for this relationship anymore.

 

But she hasn't just made "one mistake", has she? It's been a long-standing pattern of overspending, hiding her overspending, lying, stealing and snooping. The fact that she's in denial about all this really does cast doubt over her supposed commitment. Of course she's panicking! She's about to lose her meal ticket and clothing allowance.

 

She may even get better for a little while while she rebuilds 'trust', i.e. convinces you that something has changed, but it's very unlikely that it will while she can still depend on you.

 

It's interesting that happytown mentioned Debtors Anonymous, as your partner's behaviour in many ways resembles that of an alcoholic. They're often lovely people (apart from when they've been drinking) and will lie and cover up to hide the extent of their drinking (substitute 'spending' in your partner's case).

 

As to having the energy to continue with this relationship? Ask yourself how many more times you want a ride on this particular merry-go-round.

[DancingFool]

She is not covering for her son as I was able to prove she had taken a specific note that was in her purse; I'm not aware of any other stealing from me before, but there could have been.

 

She is very willing to seek professional help as she realises she has issues and has already seen her GP and is on a waiting list for counselling. She also vows never to steal, snoop or lie to me ever again and has offered to give me full access to her finances (which I'd rather not have tbh).

 

It's great that she is acknowledging her issues and actually seeking constructive help. I agree with you that you don't want to step into the role of having to check on what she is and isn't doing with her finances. Leave that between her and her therapist.

 

As for the other things, the psychological problems are usually deeply rooted, so despite the best of intentions and promises, expect that she might fall off the wagon before finally getting herself straightened out for good. It's not a quick fix but rather a long term process and she will need to be going to counseling actively and regularly for a long long time. What I would be keeping an eye is that she is actually going and doing the work necessary to correct her issues.

 

When someone is actively seeking help and not just talking about it, I am not going to jump on the bandwagon of "dump her". However, only you know just how burned out you are from her issues and whether there is a path forward or not.

[david1967]

Thank you for the last two replies, which offer very different and valid points of view....

 

As an update, I'm still struggling with all of this and my feelings are of disappointment, betrayal and a complete lack of trust. I have also taken the time to reflect on the time we have lived together over the last 21 months, during which it has all been quite stressful: unnecessary drama, trust issues, interrogating me and accessing my phone, ungrateful for social events/holidays that I have spent a considerable amount of money on (although she says she's grateful, it seems like its never enough?), twists my words to make out I'm having a go at her when I'm really not, stress and drama even when on holiday, talks to me aggressively and like I'm a child sometimes too.

 

Based on the above, I was having doubts about our relationship anyway a few months ago (which we discussed and some improvements were made, with the odd lapse), but with the stealing, snooping and continued compulsive spending, then hiding and lying about it too, it really does feel like the final nail in the coffin.

 

She has actually started to receive counselling and continues to beg me not to end our relationship, stating that all of the above will never, ever happen again - I'm just not convinced though and my gut is saying get out, as I'll be happier on my own. Relationships that are right should surely be easier than this?

 

As always I appreciate any views?

[nutbrownhare]

She has actually started to receive counselling and continues to beg me not to end our relationship, stating that all of the above will never, ever happen again - I'm just not convinced though and my gut is saying get out, as I'll be happier on my own. Relationships that are right should surely be easier than this?

 

As always I appreciate any views?

 

I wouldn't be convinced, either. Healthy relationships are really, really easy. Sure, you may hit obstacles but in healthy relationships you tackle them as a team - you don't regard your partner as an enemy or a resource to be exploited. By staying in this relationship you are enabling her unhealthy behaviour.

[david1967]

Thanks again for your comments.

 

This relationship has been far from easy so far, so I guess unhealthy. Its a difficult one, I just have this 'gut feeling' that I don't believe anything she says anymore and I cannot get past that right now. Its also made me question more what she has said throughout the 3-4 years of knowing her regarding her past, e.g. I recently found out about another significant ex she had, which I had no idea about! Why hide it? I can't help feeling a bit manipulated too.

 

I'll make a decision soon...

[david1967]

Update: I had a long conversation with my partner over the weekend, telling her how I feel about what has happened and that I cannot see us working out on the basis that my trust and privacy has been broken, to the point where I don't feel I can love her as I should do in a healthy, loving relationship. Her response to this is that I am unable to forgive for anything, is that so wrong of me given the level of deceit and dishonesty?

 

I also did a list of likes and dislikes of how she has behaved throughout the time we have lived together, which on reflection has all been a bit too stressful and not conducive to a loving relationship: the ratio of like to dislikes is about 1:4 ! I discussed all of these with her. Again, she says that she will change every single one of those disliked behaviours for the better, which I do find very hard to believe.

 

The very next morning she was up and out early before me and returned later advising me that she had 'secured' another property on the same housing estate as ours. I get that she needs to provide a home for herself and her son, but that was bloody quick! Or was this a tactic to make me feel sorry for her and not split us up?

 

Time to move onwards and upwards...

[nutbrownhare]

Her response to this is that I am unable to forgive for anything...

 

It's not unusual for people in the wrong to make out that their accuser's the "bad guy" when they get caught; often, the more outrageous their misdemeanour, the more vehement their accusation.

 

she says she will change every single one of those disliked behaviours...

 

Yawn... and you've heard this how many times?

 

Good that she's found another home (if, indeed, this is true) - the sooner you can end this nightmare, the better.

[david1967]

Thank you nutbrownhare, your insight and views are much appreciated, as always!

[nutbrownhare]

Good luck David - this can't have been easy.