Asking for input from estranged children

[boltnrun]

It's so true that the children will see it completely different than the parent.

 

For example, my father said that my mother was poisoning us against him. OK, fine, let's go with that. But how can that possibly be an excuse not to support his children? Why did he feel that the appropriate response to our mother allegedly "poisoning" us against him was to refuse to provide us with food, clothing and shelter? Why did he punish the children for what he believed his ex wife was doing?

 

I presume he thinks he tried to be a father to us but our mother wouldn't let him. But, again, I don't understand why he thought what he did (or more accurately, didn't do) was the correct response.

 

I always felt that my ex husband and I did a pretty good job of making sure our kids got all of the love and support they needed when we split. But, one of my children mentioned something about having a "rough" childhood. And I pooh-poohed him, saying "Oh yeah, you had everything a kid could want, yeah that was SO rough!" And he said "Well, my parents were divorced so yes, it WAS rough".

 

Big time ouch.

[Hell_On_Heels]

boltnrun, that's the whole weird thing about raising kids. We do everything possible to make it better for them than it was for us...and when we succeed, our kids really have no idea how much worse it could've been. You don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[boltnrun]

But again,that is the parents' perspective.

 

Who should be the ones to decide if we "succeed"? Us? Or our children?

 

I believed my son when he told me that his childhood was "rough". Because otherwise I'm dismissing and disregarding his perspective and I won't do that.

 

My mother had usually been dismissive of my perspective. And my father certainly was. I know how it feels, so I won't do that to my children.

[Hell_On_Heels]

I don't think he sees it from your perspective, though, and probably won't. I suspect he may see it more like abitbroken has voiced. If he feels worthless (now), or if he is testing you (now), what do you feel would be best for you to choose to do now?

 

That was the whole point of this thread. I wanted input from others on both sides.

 

I feel good about the message I sent him. It wasn't crashing into his life to get what I want. It was simple, direct, loving. It gives him space if that's what he needs, and reassurance I won't go anywhere if that's what he needs.

 

As for feeling worthless...wow....he's been hard in that area since he was tiny. He's always pitted himself against his older brother, and found himself lacking. The oldest was racing bikes when my youngest was making the switch from a tricycle to a bike...and he'd get so angry at himself for not being able to race a bike on his first try.

 

I know with absolute certainty that my abandonment made it worse. Yet it's something that was always there, and we've been working on this for over 25 years. I feel he needs some successes in his life, and he needs to find his own voice. Not mine, or his brother's, or his dead father's.

 

His anger has been increasing over the past year - he has been very vocal about this - and the anger wasn't directed at me. I'd been hunting options for him to work it out and get away, come to terms with it, and be free. I was heading more down the organic farming community path, but after many talks with someone close to me who drives trucks over the road, he decided on that.

 

I think he's terrified. Suffering. And I think he heard the door shut behind him. He has nowhere to go but forwards now. And if he somehow washes out of truck driving school, I think he will give up forever.

 

I can (and do) stand beside him. I cannot fix this for him. No one can, except him. It is hands down the most agonizing part of being a parent.

 

So when he had anger in his voice, I cheered him on inside. Yes, get angry. Claim your life.

 

Other than that, I really don't know what to do. I will say this - if I am right about him, he'll contact me soon. If I am wrong, he won't.

[Hell_On_Heels]

But again,that is the parents' perspective.

 

Who should be the ones to decide if we "succeed"? Us? Or our children?

 

I believed my son when he told me that his childhood was "rough". Because otherwise I'm dismissing and disregarding his perspective and I won't do that.

 

My mother had usually been dismissive of my perspective. And my father certainly was. I know how it feels, so I won't do that to my children.

 

It's a good question. I'd say if your kids are saying the divorce was rough, that's very valid. It was rough on them. But inside, you know you experienced rougher times. The fact that you didn't pass that on makes you a success. They may not know it, or appreciate it, or have any idea at all...but you do.

 

And in time, life will show them more perspective. They will be exposed to people who had it much worse than they did...and that will help create some gratitude, hopefully. I don't mean fawning, sickening gratitude....but a simple, elegant acceptance that "there, but for the grace of God, go I" - if that makes sense.

[Hell_On_Heels]

I'm almost embarrassed to come back and post more on this, but felt it was the right thing to do. My son texted me, and he's going to be ok. We're going to be ok, too.

 

He talked with my truck driving friend a lot yesterday, after starting his own training. My son seems surprised by how well it's going, how quickly he's catching on. He's excited about it, is enjoying the unexpected complexity of the profession, and feeling good. I'm so happy for him!! This is exactly what he needs - something positive, something that provides independence and strengthens his self respect, self esteem. It's not all butterflies and unicorns, but it's a lot, lot better than it was.

 

I wanted to thank you all for sharing so much here. I don't know the protocol, but if people want to continue posting about family dynamics on this thread, that would be great with me. Thank you again.

[journeynow]

t if people want to continue posting about family dynamics on this thread, that would be great with me.

 

In my 20's and 30's I was figuring out what from my family upbringing to continue to incorporate as part of me, and what to discard. Rebellion and judgement was a part of that, discarding what felt uncomfortable or didn't fit me. Part of that was not wanting to repeat certain behaviors with my own children. I'm certain my parents did that in respect to their own parents as well. And my kids may do it with theirs. Each generation has things they reject from the earlier one, thinking they are doing better in certain respects.

 

I had kids in my 20's, and while they went through different phases I had new appreciation for what my parents went through. But it wasn't until they reached adulthood that I understood my own deeper concern of basic parenting: keeping them alive and as whole as possible until grown. As time has passed, my own parents are now gone, and I've looked into my genealogy and the whole lineage of my people moving and settling and building lives, having children, loosing children, I appreciate all the more that it IS a big deal to bring a life into this world and keep that person alive until they can manage on their own. That is not guaranteed to anyone, and it is not always an easy task. Kudos to parents throughout history, no matter how flawed they may seem.

[lukeb]

Often what can help is to have an ally in the family, a child that you have a better relationship like a son that could speak on your behalf. Realistically it's not looking good though you could be looking at years before things get better if ever. Ultimately it's up to him not you, right now there doesn't seem to be much in it for him.

[Hell_On_Heels]

In my 20's and 30's I was figuring out what from my family upbringing to continue to incorporate as part of me, and what to discard. Rebellion and judgement was a part of that, discarding what felt uncomfortable or didn't fit me. Part of that was not wanting to repeat certain behaviors with my own children. I'm certain my parents did that in respect to their own parents as well. And my kids may do it with theirs. Each generation has things they reject from the earlier one, thinking they are doing better in certain respects.

 

I had kids in my 20's, and while they went through different phases I had new appreciation for what my parents went through. But it wasn't until they reached adulthood that I understood my own deeper concern of basic parenting: keeping them alive and as whole as possible until grown. As time has passed, my own parents are now gone, and I've looked into my genealogy and the whole lineage of my people moving and settling and building lives, having children, loosing children, I appreciate all the more that it IS a big deal to bring a life into this world and keep that person alive until they can manage on their own. That is not guaranteed to anyone, and it is not always an easy task. Kudos to parents throughout history, no matter how flawed they may seem.

 

So much of your post resonates with me. The Bible has a verse that says, "The sins of the father shall be visited on the children even to the third and fourth generation." I used to think that was a curse, why would God do that? As a parent, I realize it was a prediction, not a curse. Both of my parents came from violent alcoholic childhoods, the kind where they survived by making smart decisions. I know my parents did their best with me, but after surviving what they did and losing a child born before me...it was fairly horrible. I had 4 stepmoms, 3 stepdads, and every type of abuse there is. I also survived, and tried to do better with my own children. And they are the third generation. Hopefully, it ends with them.

[momofboys]

i dont really know what to say to this... how did you think sending them away was the right choice? like omg dude

no.

no.

you put the older kid in rehab and make sure the younger kids get lots of love and support and talks about why drugs are bad

and if it gets really bad? you have to let go and let god, and focus on the kids who need you, the ones not doing drugs

 

you failed them, why should they forgive you?

why was 1 child more important than they were?

how could you just ditch them with no contact for so long?

dude.

you think you can just walk in and out of their lives? what kind of mom does that to her children?

 

im sorry but im not feeling very sympathetic to your dilemma

[Seraphim]

I think you should be proud that all your children are still living . Because I know you get the sense and I do too that your oldest child would not be if you had not been there when he needed you . These kind of questions you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't . If your oldest child had died because you did not go to him when he had such dire issues you would've been damned as well . It is really a no-win .

 

Also after 19 you can't "send " a child anywhere . They are an adult and if they don't consent to going it doesn't happen . So you did save your oldest child's life which is admirable .

 

I think your younger son will come to you. You will make it because you both want to .

 

Do what you can now.

[Hell_On_Heels]

Thank you for your insight and empathy, Seraphim. It was an incredible battle with my eldest, and I agree that he would've died if left alone. Treatment centers wouldn't take him without his consent even as a minor, which was really weird to me. They said he'd go right back to partying as soon as he got out. If drugs and drinking were the total issue, I wouldn't have sent my younger two away. It was the violence that was the biggest danger.

 

My oldest is a very fierce person - he likes that I phrase it this way. He loves, he hates. There is nothing in between. He's intense, extreme. He's also an adrenaline junkie. Add being a hormonal teen, his father's cancer, and his own consuming guilt, and he exploded. He didn't start out that way. He was a high honor roll student, a gifted drummer, an all star baseball player. He could do anything...and I think everything came too easily to him. No challenge in life with a personality begging for something to hurl himself at and win.

 

When everything fell apart for him, he reacted in a huge destructive way. I can't describe what it was like, except to say I moved between terror and rage, depending on what he was doing. My own powerlessness was made very clear to me, and that's not how parents generally view raising their children. I lost all hope at one point, certain I'd be visiting him in prison for the next several years. He'd been arrested 3 times, and I paid for his defense until I ran out of money.

 

When he turned 18, I gave him a month notice to move out and money to help him move somewhere else. The violence didn't leave with him, though. I was still being threatened and attacked by people looking for him. I moved, hoping to escape it. He started a new cycle of behavior - coming home, having to move out again when I saw nothing had changed. I soon caught on that he did it for money rather than any real effort to make a life for himself. So I finally cut him off permanently. It was awful. He started parking his car at my place, sleeping in his car, and breaking into my home for a shower and food.

 

I was losing the battle with him, and I still couldn't bring my younger two home. I lost hope, something I thought I would never do. But, he decided to join the military. It took us a while to clean up his record so he would be accepted. He went in as a combat medic, and later switched over to photojournalism. He won a bronze star overseas, and is now respected, successful, happily married. You'd never know his background.

 

As for me, the violence finally stopped when I just didn't care any more. I was coming home one night, and a young man jumped out at me. He was wearing these metal knuckles with large silver spikes on his hand...I don't know what they're called. He said he was going to punch me in the face and take my eyes out, kill me slowly. And I thought, "Kill me slowly? I've been dying slowly for years. Surely his method is faster than this." So I said, "Ok, come on in." I can't really put you into the scene, I can't explain how little I cared, how much relief I felt at it being over.

 

Needless to say, the young man was pretty shocked. This wasn't going how he expected. He did come in, and ended up sitting at my table. We talked for hours. He told me things about my son I didn't know - and didn't want to know. I sat crying, listening. We talked about vengeance and what it gets you. The whole thing was surreal, yet that was my whole life was during those years. He left, and I never had anyone come at me again.

 

I was able to bring my youngest home. My daughter was heading off to Europe for college. She visited on breaks, but she's pretty much been on her own since she was 18. I help pay the bills as needed, listen to her problems (a fight with a friend, boys, that kind of thing). She's finishing up grad school for psychology and recently got married.

 

Momofboys, I completely understand your position. I'm not sure how I would react myself if I hadn't gone through it. Please know I'm not asking for sympathy for me - my focus has been on my youngest son.

 

As for me, no, I don't regret sending my younger two to safety. God knows what might've happened to them had they been there. My younger two don't have a problem with that, either. They were there for the start of it, and they were as terrified as I was. The decision to move them was a mutual one.

 

What I truly regret, what haunts me, is going silent. I fought them on it, but only for a few months. I gave in, and I should never have done that. The only thing that makes it forgivable is the extreme circumstances mixed with my own childhood scars. I didn't have a voice growing up, and I made sure my kids did. I listened to them when I shouldn't have. They were too young to make that kind of decision.

 

There is a big difference between forgivable and damaging. In spite of what was happening, I did so much damage to my younger two. I know that. I live with it as best I can, and try to help them heal - and if that means they cut me off, I will support it so long as it's the best thing for them. I was fully prepared for that during the first few years after being reunited. Since it's been 12-13 years of full on mothering since then, it seems weird to come now.

 

I kept asking myself why now? I thought we had worked through the worst of it. I expected flashes of it to always be there. I scarred them. It won't disappear. And then I realized this is a "flash"...he's been triggered in a big way by being fired and breaking up with his girlfriend. But what if I'm wrong?

 

I'm on the fine edge of Occam's Razor, no doubt. Wanting to do right for my son. I never want to hurt them again. The text message was good. He replied. A few days later I sent him a link to an article I thought he'd like (normal for me). He asked for more links, which I sent.

 

I'd like to talk to him. He told my oldest about the fight and that he'd really screwed up. I don't see it that way at all.