qwaspolk82 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Oh I know what you are saying . Really I do, but it's just hard to let go when you believe in someone so much, and when you tend to undertand their issues. And I don't feel "used" by her at all, nor do I feel like a "backup". She's put no demands on me, nor asked me for anything. She's well aware of her own issues and demons and she's not the diabolical evil woman you make her out to be. This hasn't been some kind of viscious cycle ...and I would not allow it turn into one either. Ive not put my life on hold for her either. I'm dating, seeing others, sleeping with another on a casual basis. I did reach out to her on Valentines Day. Sent her flowers to her office, a card, with a letter in it sharing some feelings with her, and several photos of her and I during happy times. Here's what the note said, and her response. My intuition about what is going on with her is spot on, as her remarks in her response indicates. Hope this finds you well! I miss you Roxanne! - miss your smile, your touch, your giggles and laughter, miss kissing you on the forehead and nose, …miss the way you’ve always looked at me and the way you’ve always made me feel being with you and around you, miss your warmth next to me at night, …the list could go on and on of all the little things - all the pleasant and wonderful things about you that make you the beautiful person you are. I miss you as a lover…but even more so miss the deep friendship that has always gone hand in hand with that - the easy, pleasant, and the “why did the time pass so quickly when I’m with you?” type of connection we have always enjoyed together. Lately, I’ve had that “feels like I’ve lost my best friend” kind of feeling because, as a lover, or as a friend; my feelings for you, my belief in you, my faith in you, my respect for you, and my trust in you for being the wonderful person you are, are just as strong and clear as they were the first time we said “I love you” to each other back in August. In some ways, those feelings have grown even stronger. It’s very important to me that you know how deep my feelings for you run. I am NOT angry with you for pushing me away, far from it. You haven’t “broken” my heart – just maybe “dented” it a little, yes, and that saddens me greatly, being apart from you and us being estranged, but I’ve never been mad or angry with you, and I won’t be. I understand some things perhaps more than you might realize, Roxanne, and I think the world of you, so don’t EVER think that I think any less of you because I don’t, and never be hesitant or afraid to communicate with me, see me, depend on me, or call on me for anything, especially if you are down, hurting, or in a bad place. Please know this, because it means much to me that you understand that. And if there is one single thing I want you always to be 100% secure in the knowledge of, that I want you to be wholly secure in your mind and in your heart is that I love you – unconditionally and completely, regardless of if you live 5 minutes, or 5 hours, away, and that I’m always here for you and I want you always to be wholly secure in your trust and faith in me, and be 100% secure in knowing ….that my door is always open to you,.my mind is always open to you,. and most importantly, . my heart is always open to you. These photos are for you to keep in your desk drawer. If you are having a terrible day at work or at home, if it’s gloomy outside or raining, or if you are just feeling down for whatever reason. Please pull them out and let them remind you of the abundant happy times we’ve shared, remember all the times we’ve made each other smile, and then “smile, because you know that somewhere I am missing you and thinking about you, babydoll!” Here is her email response that she sent me in return: It was a total surprise coming into work today and seeing what was at my desk already. Thank you so much I love it all. Of course I always love what you send, give or write to me. It made me cry reading your card and couldn’t read the letter until just little bit ago. Kind of wanted to wait until everyone was gone so they didn’t see me cry again or interrupt me. It touched me in a way I can’t explain. And I know how you feel. I think of you all the time I think of all the times we shared, smiles we smiled and laughs we laughed. And of course the crying I may have done at times. I wish I could sit and finish this letter up but for some reason I can’t keep it together.; maybe lots of what you had said is hitting home and coming to a head. Please don’t ever think you don’t cross my mind or that I don’t think about you and what you may be doing and up too. And yes there has been several times I have just wanted to stop by and hide out at your place. Or come by to say hi or meet up to have some drinks and make me forget life for a second. I wish I could tell you that I am happy or that I am fine and life is great. I have been dealing with life and seems to knock me down every time I make steps forward. I guess I never thought I’d ever say this in my life. But I think I am truly ready for someone to take care of me. Just me….I am getting tired and wore down. And I think I’m ready. I don’t have a phone again the new one I just gotten broke in like a week and I need to fix it. But feel free to contact me on here or FB. But that too haven’t been on in a while. I have been meaning to email you back from your last email I got here at work. It’s been busy again now with Nichole gone but must say lots better. And that is great news about your job. I am so happy for you. Well I better get going and I will have to email you again when I’m not so emotional and explain more to ya. Love you lots always will So when I sent her that stuff, it was more of a "let go" exercise on my part, but apparently it touched her and affected her. She knows. Up to her to do something to change her current "bad place" status. and I realize there is nothing I can do to control her decisions. All on her. However, I am encouraged by her response. We'll see what she does. As long as this isn't holding me back from meeting/dating/seeing others in the meantime, I'm okay with not entirely letting go....and everyone deserved a 2nd chance don't they? I told you that I know how you feel. It’s very hard to let of my ex despite all the things he’s done while he was drunk or on meth. But I know he’s not in a place to be with him and maybe never. Just because you don’t feel “used” or a “backup” doesn’t mean you aren’t one of those things. I never said she’s diabolically evil. At all. But I know her type very much. It is a vicious cycle. Perhaps you should go back and read your posts. There is a cycle going on for sure. You’re dating and seeing others and casual sex – doesn’t mean you have let go of her or moved on at all. You most definitely are emotionally on hold. Based on your words. That note PROVES you haven’t moved on. Omg it’s like I’m reading a letter from my ex. This is your life and you can do with it as you wish but she is stringing you along so that she has someone when she’s down or whatever. Sending an ex flowers and a note like that is not a “let go” exercise. At all. Do you know what I sent my ex for Valentine’s Day? Nothing. He said he wanted to get me some flowers. (He’s out of rehab so he’s acting like a normal person for now). I said no. That isn’t right. We aren’t together. Does everyone deserve a second chance? Depends on the person. No not every single person in the world deserves a second chance. You aren’t going for a second chance. You’re going to end up giving her second, third, 100 chances. I’ve been there. I’ll probably give my ex another chance if he stays sober and gets stable in this halfway house. I don’t know. For some reason he has my heart and I actually really wish he didn’t. You need to go no contact with her for a few months or something. I think you’ll see a lot more clearly if you do that. But it’s your life. If you want to casually date until she’s “ready” to be with you that’s your life to waste. That’s what you’re doing. Link to comment
abitbroken Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 That letter was horribly manipulative. You want to let go (so you say) so you send a letter that most people would have little choice not to be set back by - or pulled back in by. If you want to let go - then let go. When you guys weren't talking - continue on your end not to talk. I don't think you understand second chances. A second chance is someone who was a match, but has messed up. Done something by accident that ended up hurting you as a result even if not intended or made one wrong regretful choice. Its not that she made a mistake and deserves a second chance. This woman is a train wreck. Its just who she is in her life. Its who she is. You can't love it out of someone. When someone has low self esteem, goes back to their ex, or what have you - they don't change overnight. They are going to have the same low self esteem for a long time and can only make gradual changes. be careful that you do not use her because you are "aware" of this - by knowing she is weak so therefore saying things to make her act. Just as said before - you apparently are looking for a Project and someone to rescue - you don't believe she is "whole" because you are looking up info on self esteem and relationship cycles to find out about her weakness rather than going to meet a woman who has their act together and its just a matter of meeting the right one - unless YOUR self esteem is low about whatever thing about yourself and you don't think you can date or keep a woman with more going for her. Link to comment
warrior1 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 My tip to you, if you want her back, is to stop contacting and being 'nice'. i dont mean be horrible, but you need to be indifferent. I havent read all of the messages and dont know if she has had more that one abusive partner, but i'm goin to guess that she might have as she has now gone back to him. there are many deep rooted reasons why women go for men like this, or at the very least allow men to be like this with them, and one of them is that an early relationship (usually in childhood) was somehow damaging to her. often this could be a parent who is overly critical, controlling, abusive, has substance misuse issues, is emotionally unavailable, mental health issues, pre-occupied or maybe a work aholic. what happens is the child learns that they need to 'work' for affection, they may become a people pleaser, they develop low self esteem, they accept crumbs of affection and they have a deep feeling of pain that they try to sooth through 'achieving' validation from the ones that, usually, arent giving it to them... they learn that love is hard work and love is painful. so the child grows up and starts to form relationships, normal people come along and it doesn't feel quite exciting enough, its normal, comfortable, but that spark is missing... the spark is actually the emotional unavailability or witholding that abusive people display...because then the girl has to start focusing on pleasing, figuring out the mixed messages, focusing on the other person etc, and it feels familiar again, so thats what she believes love is. her logical head knows that it hurts, doesnt feel good, romance and flowers feel better...but still she will 'hope' that if she just does enough, the abuser will be the wonderful calm lover, that ironically she wouldnt know what to do with if he was! it is a co-dependent dance. add to that, that when abusers are in the 'gonna get you' mode they will love bomb... he will be all the things she hoped he would be at the beginning, so she will feel like she was right, he has changed! You and i know it is very unlikely that he will change and it will start over again. so back to your question...what to do. you have to realise she is hard wired for this and it takes a longggggg time for her to undo her early programming. if you care for her as you say, please just stop with the hearts and flowers, she knows that you care now and so you wont need to do any more, i dont think that will bring her back to you. in some ways you will have to appeal to what she IS attracted to...emotional unavailability...i know that sounds crazy, but it may have more of an impact. By that, i mean, live your life, dont be there, available every second of the day, dont swamp her with love messages, just go off and date and do your own thing and if she knows about it then good. sometimes you have to let the people you love go... its hard but only if they come back and 'chose you' is when you have something to work with... if you try too much now to win her back she will likely just go in the oposite direction, so its really pointless. i believe you can never actually win someone back, you have to just allow them to figure it out for themselves. By you being less available she may notice you again... or she may not...but you really only want her back this time if she is 100% into you anyway right? Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 Thanks for the response, Warrior. Just now seeing it. I've been trying to stay off of here for the most part because I've grown tired of dealing with it and tired of seeking advice. lol YES, I have a few updates over the past few weeks. I need to respond to a couple posts above but have honestly been very busy at my office during the workday (when I do most of my posts on here..lol) . In short, I am living my life, but still dropping her the occasional "thinking of you" texts and emails - all of which get positive responses. Since our exchange on Valentines Day I have received very positive signals from her - she'll text me unsolicited a few days here, and a few days there..then nothing for a week. It's like she wants to return, but can't get herself out of the miserable situation she's in. Got a huge earfull from her 20 year old daughter a few weeks ago about how gloomy, depressed, miserable, moody she is, about whenever ex boy is around they fight constantly...and it's getting worse and worse, worse than it's ever been according to her daughter (who lives with her). She also told that, YES, she knocked out two of ex boy's teeth back in late January (see above notes)...and that according to daughter it's like Mom is intentionally picking fights with ex boy because she wants him to leave.... Daughter also told me about how Mom talks about me all the time to her, how Mom was always so happy when she was with me...etc....and she said how I "bring out the best in her Mom"..."J*** brings out the worst in her"...he brings out her "crazy". She never showed ME crazy the entire time we were together, EVER. So anyway, we have been communicating a little more often. I have not blown up her phone, nor have I sent her any more sappy emotion-filled cards/notes/flowers... Yet I'm getting "thinking of you"..."love you, always will"... "youre on my mind very much lately"...etc..and chatty "about nothing" emails. Occasionally I'll send her a clever meme with just a couple lines via email to her work. So two weeks ago I come home from my 2nd job (bartending) at 2am in the morning, open my door, and guess who is curled up asleep in my recliner? HER. She knows where I keep my key, and I had told her a month ago that she was welcome at my place if she ever needed to get away, or needed a "safe space". We greeted each other and started talking as if we had just seen each other 3 days ago, not 3 months ago. It was totally natural, non-awkward, and comfortable. I made her laugh, we made small "catch up" talk. I put on my Santa hat and finally was able to give her the copule of Xmas items I had for her, which were totally spot on, thoughtful, and made her eyes wet when she opened them. We went to bed and just held each other super tight for the rest of night. I purposely steered clear of any "relationship" talk. Nor did I interrogate her about the ex being back in her life. She has never brought him up to me. Not once. But she must know that I know. I find this very curious??? I kept the conversation focused on "glad to see you", "glad you are here", "glad you are ok"...."feels good holding you"....told her I loved her and again told her that I wanted her to be 100% secure in the knowledge of how much I love her and how I think the world of her...etc.. She told me she loved me and will always love me, and that she misses so many things about us being together.... So we went to sleep and just held each other. Woke up a few hours later and it was like we were together again, like old times....that's how she acted. Again, no "relationshippy" talk. We made out a little before I walked her out to her car and told her that "I hope I see you over here again soon"...and she said "of course". She said she would email me... Well, as I kind of expected, only a couple of emails since and nothing "emotional". She was out of work for 4/5 days last week with bronchitis. Saw her briefly along the St Pats parade route (she had called and texted me that morning) ...I was marching in the parade. Went over kissed her on the lips, then on the forehead and said "Happy St. Pats, babydoll"...and gave candy and beads to her and grandson. That was last Friday. Texted her on Sat and Sun saying it was good to see her at parade and asking if she felt better. Nothing back from her yet and now it's Wednesday. Sooooo....my guess is that ex boy is still in the picture. Perhaps they had gotten into it the night she actually came over. She said "just needed to get away and get some peace and quiet" so could have had nothing to do with him. I know she misses me. I know she wanted to see me. YES So same old, same old, just dealing with it better I guess! Link to comment
abitbroken Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 In short, I am living my life, but still dropping her the occasional "thinking of you" texts and emails - Cut this out. Why are you still contacting this woman? You are the one initiating it, also. Why not just move on - find someone new? However, what she does about those feelings are entirely HER decisions, of which I have no control over whatsoever. She is damaged very clearly. I think eventually she may come around...because sooner or later that situation with the ex dag is going to END, and probably end badly. Meantime, just forging ahead So basically - you have no boundaries nor self esteem because you are saying here that you are biding your time - her ex will somehow eventually leave the picture and she will be coming back around to you. Have you learned nothing here? No, you can't control how someone else feels, but it doesn't mean "oh, i have no control about what they do - they might come back to me and i won't be able to control it" yes you can. Stop with these pathetic "i miss you messages" to a woman who is seeing someone else - fell back with her ex - to "remind" her of you and get on with your life. Link to comment
abitbroken Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Oh, and if she is back with her ex and you are volleying these "i miss you" things, you are not respecting her relationship and are encouraging her into an emotional affair. Have some pride. Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 Oh, and if she is back with her ex and you are volleying these "i miss you" things, you are not respecting her relationship and are encouraging her into an emotional affair. Have some pride. I'm not sure you don't fully understand the situation or what's been going on, Broken. Did you read the update? Pride has nothing to do with it. There is no disrespect involved here whatsoever. She has been contacting me. She was the one who showed up at my apartment and spent the night. Did you read that part of the story? Did you read all the details I just posted? About what her daughter shared with me?...etc... I know you say I should just give it up and move on, but that's easier said than done isn't it? I still believe in her. Why? Because of all of the GOOD that was between us during the time we were together, and due to many things I know about her and her life. I'm not in the habit of just "giving up" on people I care about and believe in. She's been in contact with me. It's not a matter of me "bothering" her all the time. In fact, I have been very selective about how often I have contacted her since the break up. I think she wants out of her current situation with the abusive ex but finds it very hard to accomplish that. Cycle, remember? I know you thought that my note to her on Vday was "manipulative". It wasn't. That's how I felt, and still feel now. Her response to it was her being emotionally honest I think too... But she doesn't do emotions well. She's damaged. Yeah, I wish I could just say "p*ss on her" and be done, but show me where that switch is to just make that happen? She may very well finally be done with him, or he with her, and then we'll see what might happen between us. Meanwhile I AM living my life and occupying my time with friends, activitvies, work...you have no idea how active and social a guy I am. And you suggest "find someone else". Well, problem with that is that I don't have FEELINGS for anyone else or want to be with anyone else except her. If someone comes along and changes that, then that would be great. But I'm not one of those people who HAS to be with someone. I WANT to be with her. I don't NEED to be with her. Despite of what you suggest, I am NOT one of those "saver" kind of guys who are looking for a "fixer upper", and I have a very healthy self esteemj as well. I stay engaged with this because I'm in love with her, believe in her, and see all the good in her, even though she doesn't believe it herself. I've been single more often than not my whole adult life. She came along, we connected, it was great, it had enormous potential. She got scared, pushed me away, then reopened her door to someone she knows she shouldn't have. Now she is stuck, depressed, miserable and can't seem to break out of it, even though she wants to. What's wrong with hoping she comes around, Broken? If you were in her shoes would you want someone to give up on you as you suggest I should on her? As long as my continued feelings for her don't prohibit me from living well and having fun, then I see nothing wrong with still having hope. Time will tell. I pray to God regularly to either "bring her back, or take these feelings in my heart for her away"... So far NEITHER has happened so what does that mean? lol Link to comment
abitbroken Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 have contacted her since the break up. I think she wants out of her current situation with the abusive ex but finds it very hard to accomplish that. Cycle, remember? Oh no - i understand completely. When I learned about the mean and sweet cycle/the wheel of abuse, it helped me LEAVE an abusive person, not just simply treat him as a project and say to myself "okay he's in the mean part of the cycle" and make mental notes. The mean part hurts like hell and beats you down as the non-abusive person in the relationship. I realized that I wasn't crazy and that the temporary "nice" part that happened in no way could undo any damage of the "mean" parts. So you are saying that you have insight and LEARNED about this cycle earlier than I did and are not using it as inspiration to run away. Just because she contacts you doesn't mean you have to answer back! Again, the "just letting things happen to you". So she shows up at your house - you could have told her to have a good life. You could have been on radio silence. I do believe in "not giving up on people" and believing in people. If she was non abusive, and was capable of a relationship where there was give and take, respect and health, and she had a reading disability that back then wasn't helped as much as now and she decided to go back for her GED - YES - cheering someone on and not giving up on them would be awesome and noble. or a woman you were with for 5 years is diagnosed with cancer - not giving up and fighting the fight with them is noble. But in this situation - some people are broken. They have a personality ingrained in them and there is nothing about them that implies that they will change by someone believing in them or cheering for them. One day if she becomes more self aware there is a possibility that she may gain some insight and get help and make SOME changes - hopefully that does - but it doesn't come from a couple months of trying and then "yay, she's better". You are "not giving up" that she will suddenly change into a totally different person. My ex, who was abusive in a 'final letter" to me apologized for getting mad at me and yelling, but of course had to add "but i would'n't have had to yell if you hadn't....." spoke at a particular random and arbitary moment. I've got news for the "not giving up" In 12 years he never became a different person despite self help seminars he did to show how self aware he was despite me "believing in him" - I just became more aware of the fact that i did not deserve the treatment. He twisted things and I believed at some point i deserved the treatment as nuts as that was. you think you are this enlightened person who 'gets her' and what she is about from the text book or webmd view - the sex must have been mind blowing - because i don't imagine why else you would even consider this. Bottom line, i still stand behind my opinion that you need better boundaries to say "next" and to leave the trainwreck and hop on a different train. Link to comment
abitbroken Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I pray to God regularly to either "bring her back, or take these feelings in my heart for her away"... So far NEITHER has happened so what does that mean? lol It means you have to do something, like moving on. Just like everybody else does. You block her number. You don't accept further contact. And in time, when there is no possible "when is she going to call me next" - you will finally start to move on. God is not Santa Claus or Amazon Prime. And I suspect you are not sincere, because you really don't want to lose feelings. You really want her to stand begging on your porch. Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 I pray to God regularly to either "bring her back, or take these feelings in my heart for her away"... So far NEITHER has happened so what does that mean? lol It means you have to do something, like moving on. Just like everybody else does. You block her number. You don't accept further contact. And in time, when there is no possible "when is she going to call me next" - you will finally start to move on. God is not Santa Claus or Amazon Prime. And I suspect you are not sincere, because you really don't want to lose feelings. You really want her to stand begging on your porch. I am 100% sincere in my feelings for her. I am also 100% sincere in asking God for guidance on this matter. Of course I don't want her to "stand on my porch begging". Why would I want that? "Moving on"? What really constitutes "moving on". Dating others? Check. Sleeping with others? Check. - I'm doing both. There is always the possibility of meeting someone new tomorrow that will be so awesome and such a strong connection that she will stir feelings in me that sweep clean away any I ever had for this girl, right? Can't force that to happen, just like I can't force myself to give up and write off this girl. Our hearts tell us when it's time to give up and write off don't they? Currently, ,she occupies that place in my heart. Call me a hopeless romantic, or call me an idiot, but at this point I still have the belief and the desire to be with her again. And that is based off of how things were between us. I believe she IS capable of a normal, healthy, loving relationship of the kind that everyone wants, DESPITE her obvious "damage". Why do I think this? Because that's WHO she showed me she was for the 7 months we spent together. She might be exposing her "crazy" since she pushed me away, and since reinvolving herself with the ex, but she never showed me "crazy" ever while we were together. It was a very normal, traditional, slowly developing dating experience that grew into a relationship...free of any major drama or conflict. So I know she's "capable" of that, even though it's foreign to her, scares her, and takes her out of her "negative comfort zone". There has been no lying, cheating, stealing...etc..or violation of any trust and respect between us. So I see that there is still potential for her to come around and enormous potential for us again at some point as a couple in a relationship. Because we've had that, and could have it again... I've known a few examples of "damaged", including "abused" people, female and male, who have broken their patterns of cycle of abuse and overcome their low self-esteem issues to finally connect with the right partner and who have ended up moving forward with their lives with that right partner. That's why I don't concur with the "RUN!" "Block her", "NO CONTACT" ..."she's a mess", "trainwreck"...etc...suggestions. If she has self-esteem issues, is hurting, in a bad situation with an abusive "on again off again" guy who treats her like dirt, and doesn't have a very large or reliable friend/support system (which she doesn't) - shutting her out of my life and blocking her from contact with me would be a terrible, the worst, thing to do to her and for her. I realize that she has to work things out on her own. I will continue to "love her from afar" while doing my own thing, be pleasant and supportive when I hear from her, and occasionally probably drop her reminders (email, text, phone call) , something to make her laugh and put a smile on her face. And yes, I realize it's up to me to not allow her to use me or suck me into a "cycle" of our own between her and me. If I ever feel as if she is just keeping me around for comfort, and him around for drama, then I'll know it's definitively OVER. It's not to that point. Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 you think you are this enlightened person who 'gets her' and what she is about from the text book or webmd view - the sex must have been mind blowing - because i don't imagine why else you would even consider this. Bottom line, i still stand behind my opinion that you need better boundaries to say "next" and to leave the trainwreck and hop on a different train. Broken, I AM a pretty "enlightened" person who "gets her". lol I'm a very intuitive person and throughout this process most of my intuition with her, and what's going on with her has proven to be 99% spot on so far. And it wasn't about "mind blowing sex" - It's about how I feel about her, and her about me, and the connection we had...the feelings we shared...etc.... know what I mean? THAT, is what makes sex so often "mind blowing" to me - engaging in it with someone you love and care about. Surely you can relate to that? How much better and more fulfilling sex is when it is enjoyed with someone you care about, right? So that's the only element regarding "sex" that comes into play. I've been with a few women who were absolutely amazing in bed, wild ...etc...but who I never enjoyed any real feelings/connection with, so that's all it was - mind blowing sex, and nothing more. More than the sex, the "amazing" part was the feelings connected with it, and the post-sex "cuddle & talk" part. Yeah, that's sappy I guess, but I'm old enough now to know the important things. lol Btw..I know you think I'm nuts for wanting to play this out and wait it out, Broken, but I do really appreciate your insight and opinion and want to thank you for taking the time to add your remarks. I'm just not ready to chuck it all and walk away at this point...at least not YET. Link to comment
Leahjeff Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Hi Fun Bloater 1. What do your friends suggest? Did they know your ex? Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 Hi Fun Bloater 1. What do your friends suggest? Did they know your ex? Yes, many of my friends got to know her during the time we were together. Everyone she met through me liked her immensely and found her to be sweet, pleasant, and fun. She took right to most of the friends of mine, female and male, that she met through me. Of the ones I have bled on and kept updated about the situation, most of them tell me not to give up on her, wait it out, BUT keep living my life in the meantime. Most of my friends, especially my closer female friends, saw us as being very good together, and they know how happy her and I were. And her two daughters have indicated the same - don't give up on her. Give her time, let her sort herself out, and be hopeful for the future. So to answer your question, that's what my "real world", those who know me, know her, have suggested. I am lucky. I have a very large social circle and am lucky to have many amazing friends around me as a support system. They all say "don't give up", but they also say "don't shut yourself off from other opportunities either". Which is pretty much what I have been doing over the past few months. Dating, an "FWB" relationship, reached out to a couple of ex's...etc... Because it doesn't really matter. I'm not truly "emotionally available" to any one NEW right now who might have serious and real relationship potential. thanks for your response, Leahjeff! Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted May 18, 2017 Author Share Posted May 18, 2017 Thought I would provide an update on my situation because a couple of people have asked me via PM's about it. There has been more since 3-27-17 last post. So I'll share because it might help someone in a similar circumstance. I'm not necessarily looking for "advice" about "getting her back" either. Yes I still love her very much, and am still hopeful there might be a future somewhere ahead with her and I together again. Still haven't given up on her. What I have "given" up doing is obsessing about it and letting thoughts and worry about her dominate my thoughts. A friend of mine told me recently, "Don't let your head eat your soul", and she's right! I'm doing pretty well emotionally these days, busy with work, active social life, meeting and dating others, and generally "doing ME". Which is what one must do in these circumstances. Anyway - Thoughout March and into April I continued to get sporadic texts messages such as "thinking of you, missing you" with hearts and kissy faces...couple of random emails exchanged, but still NO mention by her of her situation with the abusive ex boyfriend. None. Even though I'm sure she had to know that I knew.... She just would never bring it up or mention it. I got an email from her suggesting that her and I "get together when we have some time because she had things she wanted to "chat about" and "questions to ask me"....and added that she "knows I will be honest with her, and that I can tell her anything and be straigth with her without hurting her feelings or judging her". So I figured that she was going to open up at some point and the only thing that she could possibly have to talk about with me was the situation with Josh, the dbag abusive, piece of sh*t ex; she has been letting all but live at her house since January.... So I answered that email with "sure, you know you and I can talk about anything, feel free to get ahold of me" And left it at that. Figured she was asking for the meeting so I'd leave it in her hands to make it happen. Two weeks pass with NO contact between us....about a month ago I come home on a Wed night about midnight after drinking with friends. Open the door to my apartment and there she is curled up again in my recliner, wearing my pajamas...her clothes were spread out on the kitchen table because they were soaking wet. So that night it ALL came out....she cried a river, told me everything about how ty she felt, how foolish she felt about letting the ex back in her life like she did, admitted to sabotaging the relationship between us...how it happened...how much she regretted it...blah blah blah...went through a half a box of Kleenex.... She really opened up to me as she hadn't really ever done before. I said all the right things - told her I understood, that it was okay, and reinforced that I love her and care for her, and that I knew all about it anyway. Everything she told me about how bad things are at her house coincided with what her daughter had told me a few weeks before....same story. We talked all night about her situation, her past, some of her issues, we talked about us, and just cuddled all night. She said some very telling things too. How she happened to show up at my house that night (she knows where I keep my spare key, this isn't a big deal) was she jumped out of the abusive ex's car at a stoplight and walked 2.5 miles to my apartment..and it was chilly and raining out, hence her wet clothes. She had no phone because the bastard had recently broken it (again). I had never seen her in that condition before - totally despondent, shaken up, despairing, and that upset...and it kind of startled me. Like I said, everything came out...finally! The most disturbing part of this story is that when they had been into it fighting earlier that evening the abusive ex wrapped a cable chord around her neck and said "if you have no hope for us anymore, is this what you want? to just end it here?"... WHO THE HELL DOES THAT???? She told me all about how she just wants him gone, she's asked him to go, has told him he's got to go, has been purposely being mean to him to make him go....etc...etc... but he won't. This guy has nowhere else to go except his Mom's or his sisters that live here in our city. He's one of those total loser, 40 year old, odd jobs here and there, no career..NO place of his own...etc...total dead beat..(and a dead beat Dad as well, the State is looking for him for child support). Believe me I'm not exaggerating what a total sh*tbag this guy is. So he's not going to go anywhere until he finds something else...etc.e.tc..and who knows what he's telling her to scare her, or what he's holding over her...etc... Like most abusive a*ssholes, he's a master manipulator and control freak... I'm sure he's telling her that she could get in big trouble because of the restraining order, and she told me he has asked her many times to have the order removed, which she has not done, and says she will not do. She knows he MUST go. She knows how toxic and abusive this situation is. Again, we talked about many, many things, very clearly and openly that night. I asked her why it has taken her so long to just tell me about what happened with getting reinvolved with Josh...she said she couldn't because she was "embarrassed and ashamed" to admit that to me...not surprised and what I thought too. Next day she was adamant that she was going to pack what little things he has at HER house (yeah, HER house, HER lease...he's like a "squatter"...total user) So I held her hand all the way as I drove her home and she insisted that this was IT, she was going to force him to get the hell out finally, this time. She told me she was not going to let him manipulate and use her anymore... We made vague plans to get together over the weekend...this was on a Thursday afternoon. I just pledged her my support, told her I loved her. She told me the same..blah blah blah.... dropped her off a black from her house. His (ex's) car was there so he must have gotten off work early. Her plan was to pack his crap and put it outside. Anyway...you guys can guess what happened, right? Abusive dbag loser ex is still there! Which I half expected to happen. Apparently she probably tried to force him to leave but couldn't get it done. He has a way of turning things around on her, and she knows that, told me that. She texted me the next day letting me know she was "okay, just taking care of her daughter and grandson"... I texted her back "so how did that thing with Josh go?". Of course no response. So a week or so later I start getting texts every few days or so "thinking of you, missing you"...etc....etc.. The next weekend was Easter and I sent her a simple card that said "Believe", and an Easter lily to her office - which she pleasantly responded to. I've been dropping her an email every couple weeks with meme's pertaining to self esteem, encouragement, faith...etc..etc.. things that either make her smile, laugh, or ..make her think, sometimes all three! Hadn't heard from her in a couple weeks except trading emails on Cinco De Mayo (she is half hispanic). She been back to just not mentioning anytyhing about the situation with her ex when we communicate. Yet I get texts from her "missing me, thinking about me"...etc... My main MO is to just continue to be supportive of her and drop her gentle reminders that I care, I'm here for her...etc.... Posturing myself hopefully to be her "golden boy" - the "one good man she's never known who is unwilling to give up on her" So in keeping with that I send her a Mom's Day card with a hydrengea plant at her office this past Monday (3 days ago). Here is her email response back to me thanking me for it. It's sad, very sad. Not "sad for me", but sad because her life is pretty crappy and miserable right now. She comes across as pathetic, almost resigned to her terrible situation and being miserable and unhappy. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________- Subject: thank you!! Thank you so very much for the beautiful plant. I love it. And yes, I had an Ok mother’s day. I didn’t do anything but work around the house and rest. Was going to go fishing, but got too lazy to go after I got other stuff done. I really appreciate all that you do and think of me. Often I feel like I am not special to anyone but my KJ. So you always thinking and talking to me lets me know I am at least special to someone. LOL sounds like work is going pretty good for you and I am so glad. I knew it would get lots better for you. Mine is pretty much still about the same. Little less stressed due to Nicole being gone. But very swamped with lots of work. Nothing really new. Same old same old here. I have a dr’s appointment here at 1pm then after that think I may head on home and take a nap. You know me and my Mondays. I hate them. I haven’t really been up to much. I do miss all my friends. My mom was up last week and stayed for a couple of days. Kind of glad she went back home though. It’s all good for a while but then she starts to annoy me. My phone is off right now, just because I have to pay the monthly 45.00 and my last check went to rent and Kirsten’s car payment. So I should have it on next week. But it really doesn’t bother me until I need it to log in for work from home. I was doing good and had some money saved up but then got hit with a high power bill and that took what I had saved. Someday I will get ahead and have money saved and when I do I’m not saying anything. I may work this summer on a part time job. But haven’t made up my mind. I should and need to but I get mentally drained after work. Well better her going to appointment and get going. Thank you again so much. Love you and miss talking to you and seeing you smile and laugh. xoxoxox ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I just responded pleasantly the next day with: ___________________________________________________________________________________________ You’re very welcome! Hope it made you smile, and glad it made you feel special, because to me you certainly are very special – so I bet I can give KJ a run for his money in the “seeing you as someone special” department! …and I want you to always be 100% secure in knowing that -remember? When I was selecting which plant to get you, the hydreanga just kind of spoke your name because the lavender tint of it reminded me that you are fond of the color purple. When I selected the card, the sentiment in the card screamed “Roxanne” to a “T” and I couldn’t have expressed how I see you through my eyes better had I written it myself. I miss “seeing you smile and laugh” very much also, miss the sound of your voice and your gentle giggles… Hope to see you soon and we’ll talk about whatever and share some smiles and laughs. You know you’re always welcome at my place when you can, or need to, get away, hide out, nap…lol…or just want to see me and sip some Jack together! Know that you’re on my mind very much, I miss you, and that I’m here for you. Let’s get caught up soon! You mentioned you had a Dr. appointment? Everything OK? Finally get rid of your bronchitis? Nothing to worry about I hope! Please get your phone turned back on, and if you need some help with that, let me know. I’d be glad to help you with your balance. You not having a phone worries me, mainly if you were to need it in an emergency - for yourself, one of the girls, or KJ…etc. Plus I miss your text messages! Lol ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ So this is where it's at right now. As I said at start of update. I'm okay and no longer obsessed with it and no longer letting it dominate my thoughts. Still care, still love her, still believe in her. My feelings haven't changed. However, how I handle my feelings HAVE CHANGED. I am starting to feel the "pangs of indifference" towards her, and I find myself feeling sorry for her more and more. Nothing I can do. Still don't doubt how she feels about me. I'ts up to her to change her situation (get rid of abusive ex finally and permanently). She KNOWS what she needs to do to and needs no reminders from me. She'll do it sooner or later, and I have no doubt she'll show back up at my place again also...and we'll get another chance to talk deeply about things. Her email response to me I found very sad, which makes me sad for her. She truly is in a "cycle of toxic/abuse?....worse, is SHE KNOWS IT! She made the remark that night she was at my place "I feel like by letting Josh back in, I have thrown 7 years of therapy down the drain, going back to Eric (her ex hub, who was, guess what? an abusive piece of too). SO SHE KNOWS.... So I guess I will keep letting her know I'm here for her and keep on DOING ME and living my life.... How do you help someone who is unwilling, incapable, or not wanting to HELP THEMSELVES??? This is what is becoming the question. Anyway, that' the long update. Would welcome insight on how she is. To me, and a few of my friends who know about these things, she is TEXTBOOK example of the "low self esteem" woman who has been beaten on and beaten down. She sabotaged a very good thing with me, and then reopened her door to about the farthest thing she could get from Me, and the good that comes with me...by letting her abusive sh*tbag ex back into her life. Now she wants him gone because SHE KNOWS, but can't seem to make it happen.... Her life is a mess, a terrible mess, and she's miserable...but it's a MESS OF HER OWN making. She knows what she needs to do, must do, because she knows there's no "happily ever after" or any trust, faith, or future with this piece of sh*t. It's still beyond me how a woman can keep going back to an abusive loser who has proven many times over the years to her that he is NO DAMN GOOD and a total abusive loser who treats her like a piece of sh*t. Hope everyone's having a great day! lol However, I have other interests going on at present. We are at the cusp of another great boating summer! Link to comment
jennylove Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 FB, Love yourself enough to walk away from her. She's a mess. I'm sure she's had a rough life, but we ALL have our story to tell. She wants the loser, let her have him. This is her choice. But don't you dare be her doormat and that's ex's tMy how you are acting. Why would you even consider taking her back after she chose to be with someone else? And now your offering to pay her bills? I was with a guy who dumped me to redate his "loser" ex. It broke my heart into pieces. And yes, he'd occasionally send me a breadcrumb to string me along. One day, I just completely cut him off without warning and I was "over" him within 6 months of NC. I've seen him around a few times since then and I can't believe I was ever in love with him. You'll get there, but you have to take the first step: block. Second step: hide your key! Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 FB, Love yourself enough to walk away from her. She's a mess. I'm sure she's had a rough life, but we ALL have our story to tell. She wants the loser, let her have him. This is her choice. But don't you dare be her doormat and that's ex's tMy how you are acting. Why would you even consider taking her back after she chose to be with someone else? And now your offering to pay her bills? I was with a guy who dumped me to redate his "loser" ex. It broke my heart into pieces. And yes, he'd occasionally send me a breadcrumb to string me along. One day, I just completely cut him off without warning and I was "over" him within 6 months of NC. I've seen him around a few times since then and I can't believe I was ever in love with him. You'll get there, but you have to take the first step: block. Second step: hide your key! I guess I'm just not fully ready to give up on here because I see all the good in her, and I judge her on the type of relationship her and I had for almost 7 months - normal, healthy, no drama..etc.. It was wonderful in so many ways and she always treated me like I was the "love of her life" the entire time. She never showed me "crazy" and there were NO "red flags" that I missed seeing. None. Our time together was "roses all the way". THIS makes it very hard to "walk away" doesn't it? Because it's so hard to get my head around, and because I believe in her - based on what I know about her, and how things have always been between her and I. So I know she's capable, and desires, a healthy loving relationship, because she's showed me that. She got scared, pushed me away, and made tentative steps to return the first month after we broke up. Then she lets the abusive piece of sh*t back into her life shortly therafter, so it wasn't quite like the "dumped me to be with him" scenario. I understand toxic relationships, the dynamic..etc..and understand the cycle of abuse that is in play between her and this guy....and I know she's capable of breaking that cycle and dynamic, because she has before. She KNOWS there's no future there, and she KNOWS that there's no "happily ever after" looming on the horizon. She's had counselling and therapy due to past toxic relationships. She's had a few of them. She also KNOWS she has to get away on her own, and for herself. Up to her. Nothing I can do except continue to express encouragement. She needs no reminders about what she needs to do, and what an abusive piece of sh*t he is, from me. She KNOWS. It's going to end sooner or later, but it's going to end nonetheless. Just hope it doesn't take a black eye, broken nose...etc..or another trip to the ER, or getting arrested, to make her finally do something about it. Lord knows what he's telling her and filling her head with! She's being manipulated and controlled and used...and in her own house! The most frustrating that is that I know I can't do anything about changing things. It's very much up to her. Doesn't make it any easier to accept. Again, because it's so f*cked up and nonsensical. Yes, she is a "mess", as you say, and she's had many bad prior experiences with similar toxic relationships and abusive loser men who have destroyed her self esteem. You would think that she has learned hard lessons, and from talks her and I have had while we were together, I thought she had learned and had changed. Obviously, she has backslid back into a huge mess - but a mess of her own making, and a mess it's up to her to get out of. I am NOT being her "doormat". She has asked me for hardly anything, and she's not "throwing me breadcrumbs". She is stuck and wants out. I'm convinced of that. I also know how sad, depressed, and resigned she has become. This is NOT her. It's like she was a whole different person the time we were together. Like both her daughters have told me - I bring out the best in her, and he brings out the worst. I am still hopeful that she will come around. And I don't think there is anything wrong with me posturing myself as being her "golden boy" - the "one guy, the one good man, who isn't going to give up on her because I believe in her". Sure, that's sounds corny and sappy, but I'm quite sure she's never had that kind of person, a man like me, in her life. It's not about "loving myself enough to walk away". I love myself plenty and have no issues with self-esteem. I have no problem meeting new women and have a very fulfilling social life. I've been single most of my adult life and have always been very content to be alone and be "single". Problem is she came along and changed that contentment. Why? Because of the feelings.... And I"m also not in the habit of "walking away" from things I care about very easily. She has few friends, hardly any support system, so I think " cutting her off" and walking away would be the worst thing I could do in this case. Meanwhile, I haven't put my life on "hold" for her. I'm dating, talking to new women,...etc... It's not like I'm sitting at home curled up in the fetal position pining away over her. I'm in a pretty good place emotionally actually. Just not ready to drop this matter entirely because I see the enormous potential for her and I to have another go at it a some point down the road. But it IS up to her to make those moves. Who knows? She might, and at that time, I might no longer be as interested, or even available, down the road. Time will tell. My heart hasn't told me to give up on her yet. It's that simple! And, yeah, I offered to pay her phone bill. She's NEVER asked me for $, ever. I offered. Apparently she's broke as a joke right now and I'm uncomfortable about her phone being off because - for her own safety and because of her daughters and grandson. What's $45 to me anyway? I make plenty of $ and it's not like I offered to pay her credit card bills, or other crap like that that dumb men do for women who don't appreciate them. She's made no attempt to use me like that. And as she told me before - "I could never ask you for that kind of money" - talking about the $500 she got from her ex, who owed he much more than that, when she was in a pinch back in January - which also had much to do with her letting him back in. So don't get the idea that I'm attempting to "buy" my way back in. Not the case at all. Why would I consider taking her back after she chose to be with someone else? - easy answer Because I love her! That, and from things I explained above. And because all was always very good between us and there was no "dealbreaking" type of behavior - lying, cheating, stealing, fighting, or saying of harmful things to each other. It's like things just "stopped" and were frozen in place beween us so the potential definitely exists for us to pick up where we left off at some point down the road - IF she makes the right things happen, and IF she can move forward with her life and make the postive changes necessary. And IF she could convince me that her and I do have a future together. Big IF's, I know, but when 2 people care about each other, and when the potential is there, anything is possible isn't it? So call me a fool, call me stupid, call her a "lost cause". I prefer to use the term "optimist"! Just not ready to fully give up on her yet! Link to comment
abitbroken Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 And, yeah, I offered to pay her phone bill. She's NEVER asked me for $, ever. I offered. Apparently she's broke as a joke right now and I'm uncomfortable about her phone being off because - for her own safety and because of her daughters and grandson. You need to not enable her. if she needs the $45 and doesn't get it as a handout, she will either learn a lesson and never let it happen again, or she will go work a sidejob or find it from somewhere (i.e. no Starbucks, consigning clothes or having a yard sale) or make the other changes she needs to. By paying her bills you are involving yourself too much. It doesn't matter if she asked or not. Actually, she did ask you - people say "oh dear, i am short, how ever will I pay it?" and batting their eyelashes, you know? There are people who try to stay in people's lives by creating a reason for the other person to physically depend on them. You are preventing her from bettering herself by doing offering. Relationships - meaning the one you have that is one on one with a wife/girlfriend, etc, takes more than just "caring for eachother" - there is a higher criteria set for who is the right person to enter a longer term relationship with. There WAS a dealbreaker in this relationship and you are in denial to believe otherwise. She was not over her ex and in fact went back to him. And she is not on her own two feet. You should never hang on to someone with the criteria that they are out to convince you that you can have a relationship with them - no. You let them go. if you run into them down the road - then proceed from there - but you need to completely get out of the picture. If someday you run into her and she is walking down the street looking put together, headed towards her better job - has been single for awhile and has her head together and its by chance - maybe you can reconnect - but as long as you keep trying to hang on just a little - its never going to work and you are only creating dependency. Believe me, I thought my ex could change. I really did. If he could just straighten a few things out things would have been good. Or so I convinced myself. And he thought i could change in what he wanted me to be, You are doing the whole white knight thing - finding the fixer upper woman. The myth is that with just showering her with love, she'll transform. Actually, if she was 18 - sure, she might, but as a full adult, some people are always on the trainwreck track. This is her. This is how she runs her life. its not about "giving up" on someone, its finding someone compatible with you in a healthy way. Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 And, yeah, I offered to pay her phone bill. She's NEVER asked me for $, ever. I offered. Apparently she's broke as a joke right now and I'm uncomfortable about her phone being off because - for her own safety and because of her daughters and grandson. You need to not enable her. if she needs the $45 and doesn't get it as a handout, she will either learn a lesson and never let it happen again, or she will go work a sidejob or find it from somewhere (i.e. no Starbucks, consigning clothes or having a yard sale) or make the other changes she needs to. By paying her bills you are involving yourself too much. It doesn't matter if she asked or not. Actually, she did ask you - people say "oh dear, i am short, how ever will I pay it?" and batting their eyelashes, you know? There are people who try to stay in people's lives by creating a reason for the other person to physically depend on them. You are preventing her from bettering herself by doing offering. Relationships - meaning the one you have that is one on one with a wife/girlfriend, etc, takes more than just "caring for eachother" - there is a higher criteria set for who is the right person to enter a longer term relationship with. There WAS a dealbreaker in this relationship and you are in denial to believe otherwise. She was not over her ex and in fact went back to him. And she is not on her own two feet. You should never hang on to someone with the criteria that they are out to convince you that you can have a relationship with them - no. You let them go. if you run into them down the road - then proceed from there - but you need to completely get out of the picture. If someday you run into her and she is walking down the street looking put together, headed towards her better job - has been single for awhile and has her head together and its by chance - maybe you can reconnect - but as long as you keep trying to hang on just a little - its never going to work and you are only creating dependency. Believe me, I thought my ex could change. I really did. If he could just straighten a few things out things would have been good. Or so I convinced myself. And he thought i could change in what he wanted me to be, You are doing the whole white knight thing - finding the fixer upper woman. The myth is that with just showering her with love, she'll transform. Actually, if she was 18 - sure, she might, but as a full adult, some people are always on the trainwreck track. This is her. This is how she runs her life. its not about "giving up" on someone, its finding someone compatible with you in a healthy way. What you are saying, Broken, is very sensible, as your remarks usually are. However, you know, from your own personal experience how difficult these situations are. How can I just "give up" or "walk away" from someone who always treated me like the love of their life? Someone I know cares about me (despite her f*cked up situation)? Someone who showed me what enormous potential her and I have together, and I judge her on how she treated me the time we were together? She's already made the necessary "changes" you are referring to. Over a year ago, before her and I had begun dating. She hit rock bottom with him and managed to kick him out of her life..including the restraining order she obtained. He did horrible and terrible things to her and treated her like a piece of sh*t several different times they tried being together at various points in the past. Always ended terribly, but ended nonetheless. Cycle of abuse, textbook case. So I'll ask YOU - how on earth, and why, could she return to such an involvement with such a dbag loser? How many times did your abusive ex have to prove to you that he was a total worthless abusive assh*le who will always be the same abuisve assh*le? How did you manage to break that cycle? Why? What made you save yourself? Help me to understand all of this! She's had years of therapy and counselling going back like 7 years...cause she mentioned that she feels like she wasted all of that therapy by making the extremely poor decision to re-open the door to her life to him. She's 41 years old, and she should know better shouldn't she? I would think that at 41 years of age, not 18 years of age, and having gone through all the anguish, pain, and grief that she has experienced over the years with similar types of abusive, controlling, manipulative losers, she would relish making the kinds of changes in her life she was well on the well to making when we were together. I'll say again, she never displayed any of the typical "red flag waving" and "crazy whack job" kinds of behaviors while we were together...NONE. In fact she would often tell me how glad she was that we found each other, and how happy she was to be with me, and would make mention of how I was so much different of a guy than she was used to being with - all due to POSITIVES of course. So she's not stupid, far from it. SHE KNOWS! I think maybe the term "learned helplessness" might actually apply to her situation. You tell me? I offered to pay her small balance of phone bill so she could get her phone turned back on. Just felt like I should offer. She didn't take me up on the offer. She's never asked me for any kind of $ assistance of any kind at any time either. She could have asked me for $500 when she was in a pinch back in December and really needed it, which partially led to her letting the dbag ex back in...he owed her $. She said she could "never ask me for that kind of money" when we talked about it last month. What's $45 to me? I make plenty of money, and I'm generous to a fault at times. Wasn't an attempt to "enable" her or "buy" her at all. Sure, I guess "white knight" might apply. But what's wrong with that? Rather than "white knight" I guess I just want to be her "golden boy" - I already know she feels safe and secure with me, and she trusts me. She's had very little of that kind of positive in her relationship life. I just want to show her that I'm the "one good man, perhaps the only one, she's ever had that won't give up on her". And there has GOT to be some merit in that concept isn't there? And if this whole thing was just a write off and meaningless between her and I, then you would think that I would have long been over this by now. What keeps me stuck if she's a total whack job write off? I"m not stupid, nor do I have issues where I seek, or need, a "fixer upper". A big part of the reason I did let me walls down and fall for her is because she appeared NOT be a "fixer upper", but appeared normal, healthy, cheerful, well-adjusted...etc... sure, I knew she had been through some sh*t, but again, NO RED FLAGS. So I"m just not ready to give up on her just yet.... And when that times comes, if it does, it still won't be a matter of "giving up", but maybe a matter of "giving out". Know what I mean? Appreciate the remarks, and I know you say to "run, run the other direction as fast as you can..." but I still believe she will come around in time. So in light of that, please tell me what you suggest I do moving forward to gently nudge her towards making the change she already knows she needs to make...and she needs to do it for herself, not for ME. I know there's really nothing I can do, but my logical mind keeps telling me that there must be something I can do to influence her??????? Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 Updating since it got bounced to the top of the forum category: We had been communicating regularly over the past month or so, email exchange, text here and there, every couple of weeks or so. Two weeks ago she blew my phone up throughout the day while I was out of town for work. She told me she "feels like running away and not telling anyone where she is...etc..etc...". Then later that night she said a bunch of intimate stuff to me about how she feels about me. Her, and her cousin who now stays with her, ended up going to my place and staying there due to high drama with the abusive guy it turned out. We had tentative plans to get together that next day when I returned from my road trip...but of course, (and as I half expected), she "ghosted" on me... Typical. Fast forward to this past weekend. She finally pulled the trigger and was able to get him to finally get out of her house. (Saturday). Posted some stuff on Facebook about "celebrating her freedom..life is good!", and another post where she was attempting to sell a bbq grill that had been "in her way for 6 months and I want it gone". .. He came and got that. Met up with her Monday at noon for lunch, then her and her cousin came and joined me on my boat on the river and we stayed out for local fireworks show Monday night. It felt like old times. I asked her "what finally made you get it done (geting rid of him and out of her own house). She said "you know I've been trying to get him to leave for a long time and I finally got it done...she also said "you don't know what it's like to lay in bed and wish you would never wake up because of another person being there who you loathe". So apparently, (and as I already knew) things were pretty damn bad at her place.... Hopefully she is done finally and for good! Her "ghosting" over the past couple of weeks was due to her phone being totally smashed by the abusive ex... (as he has done before a few times). According to her, without her sharing alot of details, it got very, very ugly leading up to this past Saturday. I'm not exagerrating what a total POS this guy is, either. So I guess I'll see what happens. I'm not under any illusions about immediately getting back together with her. Afterall, she just finally made the right move and got rid of him. Still have no doubts about how she feels about me, especially after some of the things she said to me via text couple of weeks ago. HOWEVER, just because she has made the right decision to get rid of him and move forward doens't make her any less broken and damaged, does it? Undoubtedly she needs time to decompress from the 6 month nightmare she's been through, and I don't intend to put any pressure on her, or try to lay any commitments on her at this point. We'll see what happens going forward. At least now she is available to do things with, go on dates, activities...etc..etc... Our time together Monday and Monday night was very pleasant and positive, but we really didn't "talk" about anything serious or "relationshippy". There will be time for that at some point. Meanwhile, I'm still "doing me" and living my life. I very much realize that just because she had gotten rid of the abusive POS, doesn't automatically mean her and I are going to immediately pick up where we left off before. I would be naieve to think so, right? Most importantly, she has finally made this decision for herself, and that makes me very happy and glad for her regardless of what might happen between her and I in the future. I told her that Monday. That I was very glad she made that decision on her own and made it happen. One question I do have is: How to proceed with her now that she has finally made the break? Link to comment
jennylove Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I'm happy for her, big step 1! As for you, proceed with caution, she's left him before and went back to him. Give things some time to settle. Think back to when you have been in a miserable relationship, it feels euphoric to break up with that person. But as time goes on, you may start to miss them and remember all the "good" about them instead of the bad. Take it slow. And don't be her "counselor". I don't think it would be right of her to talk about him to you. He's not your problem, and you aren't her therapist. Link to comment
ParisPaulette Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 All I'm going to say further is that I think you should read this article and be sure you do not fall into the category of becoming an enabler. And I do not say that to try and make you wrong or have a go at you, but this article is a pretty good non-judgmental one on how to help people without doing everything for them so they never change or do anything from themselves. Having worked with abuse survivors I can tell you that it is crucial this girl learns to stand on her own two feet and handles her own life. And that you work on ways to let her do that and to stay sane in all of this, so that you both are emotionally healthy. Because at the end of the day that's really what it's all about. Two people who not emotionally healthy will not be able to overcome their issues together, they will simply fall into patterns that never change. Read the article link and just see if it helps at all. I'm not judging by the way, I've seen it all and had an alcoholic father, so I know all too well how easy it is to cross the line from helping them to doing everything for them, and not being able to tell the difference. I really think you do care, I don't get any maliciousness on your part towards this woman. You really do want the best for her, but it's hard sometimes to see how to go about that. This article might at least shed some insight into that. Good luck, I wish you both the best. Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 All I'm going to say further is that I think you should read this article and be sure you do not fall into the category of becoming an enabler. And I do not say that to try and make you wrong or have a go at you, but this article is a pretty good non-judgmental one on how to help people without doing everything for them so they never change or do anything from themselves. Having worked with abuse survivors I can tell you that it is crucial this girl learns to stand on her own two feet and handles her own life. And that you work on ways to let her do that and to stay sane in all of this, so that you both are emotionally healthy. Because at the end of the day that's really what it's all about. Two people who not emotionally healthy will not be able to overcome their issues together, they will simply fall into patterns that never change. Read the article link and just see if it helps at all. I'm not judging by the way, I've seen it all and had an alcoholic father, so I know all too well how easy it is to cross the line from helping them to doing everything for them, and not being able to tell the difference. I really think you do care, I don't get any maliciousness on your part towards this woman. You really do want the best for her, but it's hard sometimes to see how to go about that. This article might at least shed some insight into that. Good luck, I wish you both the best. ] Thanks for your input Paulette! I appreciate it. I did read the article you sent the link for. I don't see much of anything that would label ME as an "enabler" - don't really fit the profile laid out in the article. I've always been good with things like boundaries, not making excuses for people, and telling things like they are. One of my favorite phrases is: "I'd give someone the shirt off my back...but only if I thought it would fit them". Does that make any sense? All this time with her I have been pretty detached and have NOT gotten directly involved in the drama connected with her situation. All I have done is expressed that I care, I'm here for her, I'm supportive, and let her know that I believe in her. She has not asked me for anything either. From Day 1 I have realized that it is up to HER to get herself squared away. Up to HER to rid herself of him, get him out of her house, stop allowing herself to be treated like sh*t, and up to HER to change her situation and break free of the cycle of abuse. And I've also told her at least once that she needs to do this FOR HERSELF, not due to any feelings between herself and me. And I realize how hard that is to do after reading up on things, and after utilizing resources such as this site. And I'm smart enough to know that just because she has gotten rid of him and finally gotten him out of her house DOES NOT necessarily mean he is finally and completely out of her life. I also think she might be one of those people who thrive on drama as well. She may actually enjoy the drama, however negative.... She's not a "victim" in the classic sense of the word. She is a victim of her own bad decisions and poor choices. She told me back in April that she feels like she had "wasted years of counselling going back her ex-husband by letting the abusive ex back into her life". She said that. So she knows the dynamic here, and she has had the counseling she needs to "fix" herself, yet it didn't take apparently, did it? Or she wouldn't have sabotaged a healthy and thriving relationship with me and wouldn't have allowed the abusive douch*bag POS ex back into her life would she have? Just because she is getting free of this situation doesn't change the fact that she is damaged and broken as a person does it? I'd be naieve to think so, right? And strip away this whole "abusive ex" scenario that has just played out, her self esteem and insecurity issues still remain undoubtedly. And those are separate, albeit very related, issues that she still has to deal with. Actually, SHE fits into the "enabler" profile more than I do. She has a history of letting others, especially terrible human being boyfriends; walk all over her. She is constantly letting family members take full advantage of her kindness and generosity as well, and has a history of doing that with them. She let's her daughter sponge off her and walk all over her as well. She has difficulty setting boundaries for herself, and that's often been obvious. So moving forward I am guarded and wary. Yes, obviously I love her, still IN LOVE her for the most part. Still believe in her also. We'll see what happens. I see the good in her I know she fails to see in herself. Certainly she needs time to heal from this situation and before considering any kind of commitment or revisiting a "relationship"; she needs to be 100% free and clear of this loser, and 100% "over it". And she'll need to show me that she is. Meanwhile I "do me" and continue to date others. Right? At least that's how I think it should work! Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Thought I would bump this up and perhaps give anyone who wishes a chance to loudly say "I TOLD YOU SO!" Last post was in early July. She had gotten rid of the toxic abusive manipulative loser. Her and I started doing things together, going on dates, slept together a couple of times,....but all the time she was still talking to the POS after she got him out of her house. All the while assuring to me that "I had nothing to worry about from him...she's made that mistake twice and wasn't going to make it again.blah blab, blah...". So I started being very cautious and less available to her after I found out she was still talking to him. She kept texting me and calling me, and we'd see each other occasionally. This went on for a few weeks. We had some deep talks and she really opened up to me. Actually talked about her past, her emotional damage, cried about a few things...etc..etc... Thought things were headed in the right direction. Then around 10 August, she just stopped talking to me.... One day we had a pleasant phone exchange, a couple days later she doesn't return a call or a text....???? So I stopped contacting her. Then a week later it pops up on Facebook that she is "in a relationship" - with the toxic abusive POS she has an active restraining/order of protection against! He had tagged her as that status and she allowed it. So rather than get all pissed off and confront her, or say anything at all, I just let it go..... A mutual friend of ours confronted her though.... And she told that friend how much she "loves me", ,but she just has to see where things go with abusive guy...how she doens't want to be alone....how she's not a quitter...and how they (her and abusive guy) are going to go to counselling and build something great...even though she knows they have a horrible past together...blah blah blah". So at that point I was just like "okay, this is it....no contact..." So no more calls, texts, emails, or anything contact of any kind....and I held to that for over 2 months! NO CONTACT FROM MY END WHATSOEVER! DONE! Late October - she stars blowing up my phone with "fishing" kinds of texts, liking and commenting on my Facebook posts...etc... I don't respond for a week, then finally texted her back. Then the last weekend in October she blows up my phone calling me. Wants to get together. We get together and I don't ask her any questions about anything. We just spend a pleasant night talking and visiting, felt just like old times. We slept together of course. It was very nice, and she seemed like a different person - Purposely didn't ask her anyhtning about abusive POS either. So we exchange texts and emails for about a week...then she "ghosts" on me again..... This was early NOvember. Just stops responding to texts. Once again, I"m like "DONE". MORE NO CONTACT. First week of December - repeat above paragraph basically. She took me out to dinner for my bday on 4 December, brought me gifts, paid for dinner. Spend the night. We talked all night. She told me about how she was in counselling and talking about things like self esteem, self worth, boundaries....etc..etc.. ALL topics which fall into the types of issues she has. She genuinely seemed much more cheerful, happy,. and relaxed than I had seen her in awhile. Like the person she was during the 7 months her and I were orginally together. So we have an awesome night. Then a week later she "ghosts" on me again and I know she's back hanging with the POS. Again, NO CONTACT....thru Xmas. Sent her a smart ass text on Xmas night - Wishing her a Merry Christmas -with a meme attached that said "Don't f*ck up your present f*cking around with a past that has no future". She didn't respond. lol So a few days later, on Thursday Dec 28th, she starts blowing up my Facebook, and then sends me a few texts..... Guess what? She has a broken leg. How did it happen? Take another guess? Abusive ex knocked her down with his car door, then proceeded to run over her leg. Then he left her there in her drive way and drove off. Luckily her daughter came home a few minutes later. It was 5 degrees in Central IL that day, snow on the ground. He broke her leg in 2 places. So of course she turns to me for support and help? I took her food, meds, booze, water, ice...candy...etc..etc... Told her I was there for her and that she knows that. So she's called on me a few times since for ride to doctor and other trivial assistance. I was 100% there for her, and she talked to me like she always has....very affectionate sweet, also talking how she has "felt a huge dark cloud lifted from her"...how she is "looking so forward to the new year, a new her"...etc..e.tc... And she's been posting alot on FB with meme's about "self worth"..."making changes"...you know, all that "self help" stuff that many women are always posting.... So over the weekend HIS car was at her house at least one time.... Just happened to be in the area so drove by. And she claimed to be sick all weekend. But still no real change in her texting behavior....still affectionate, friendly... So maybe I"m reading too much into his car being there. But now after she texted me yesterday morning telling me she is on way to Doc appt for her leg ..and me texting her back asking her how it went.... havne't heard from her since yesterday morning so sh's just left me hanging AGAIN! So I have no idea what's going on with her. I fear the worst. That despite ALL obvious reasons NOT to, she's letting him manipulate himself back into her life....after running her over with a car! She's a textbook example of the "toxic abusive relationship" who just can't break away...even though she wants to. And I know she wants to.... All I know is that I"m tired of being treated like I'm the most important thing in her life to her one day, then treated like I don't even exist the next. :( This woman is 42 years old too.... really old enough to grow out of her childish issues, stand up for herself, and make the changes in her life she has repeatedly talked about making. And above all, have the common sense to be finally and permantently done with a toxic, abusive, and now obviously dangerous loser who now, on top of everything else he has done to her over the years, has finally BROKEN HER BONES!!!!! GRRRRRRRR! He needs a baseball bat taken to the side of his pathetic head is what he needs. But if she refuses to do anything, and keeps letting him back in, what good would that be? Not worth it. I have too much to lose. So many of you guys who took the time to post last spring/summer on this thread. I thank you. Anyone have anything to add, I am all ears. I'm sick of it. Ironically I DID actually start to really get over her between August and late October when I was standing firm on my NO CONTACT.... I made new friends, dated a few girls, had fun as I always do...and took a huge step for me - I bought a house! My first home at age 50! So I let her suck me back in back in October...then let her ghost...same with first week in December.....now this latest. I just don't know what to do or how to deal with it. I am pissed off and angry with her, of course, however, I'm not one to say mean and hurtful things. I keep my anger bottled up. I know she is damaged and broken. I know she has issues. I know I can't fix her. But still? What have I dont to deserve to be treated as an emotional crutch /fall back guy....when the other guy is a toxic, abusive, criminal sociopath! This is what my logical mind still has difficulty getting my head around. Why can't she just walk away? Sh*t! At the rate she's going with him, refusing to sever ties, she's going to end up a statistic and Candace Cameron will be playing her in a Lifetime Network movie...and yeah, trying to be funny, but this whole thing is no joke, at least not to me. :( Link to comment
Fun Boater 1 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 Two words: Trauma bonding. YES! I think this very much spot on applies to her situation! Great article. I've just read it 3 times and it's uncanny the similarities. People often stay in abusive relationships because of something called 'trauma bonding' — here are the signs it's happening to you Lindsay Dodgson Aug. 17, 2017, 6:46 AM 270,101 FACEBOOK LINKEDIN TWITTER EMAIL PRINT trauma bond ian dooley / Unsplash People often don't even realise they are in an abusive relationship. It can be hard for others to understand why someone stays with an abusive partner. It's often because of something called "trauma bonding," where you become addicted to the hormonal rollercoaster an abuser sends you on. Those who have never been in an abusive relationship struggle to understand how people remain in one for so long. If somebody was mistreating you, "why did you stick around?" they ask. For survivors, this can be a really tough question to answer. The lucky ones escape, and stumble upon articles or books that give them the terms to be able to understand what happened to them, and thus describe their experience. Other times, though, this doesn't happen, and people might not even be aware they were in a relationship that could be classed as "abusive." This is because we are conditioned to believe abuse is always physical. On TV and in films, we see characters who are obviously evil. They are violent to their partners, shout at them aggressively, or even murder them in a fit of rage. While this does happen, it's not a true representation of the abuse many others experience. According to therapist Shannon Thomas, author of "Healing from Hidden Abuse," psychological abuse is insidious, and it occurs a over time like an IV drip of poison entering your veins. It starts with an off-hand comment here, or an insult there, but often victims brush these moments off. This is because abusive people are great at pretending to be everything you're looking for in a partner, and they love bomb you with affection. Victims tend to believe this is the abuser's real self, and when the mask starts to slip more and more, they believe its "out of character" and it must be their own fault for making their partner angry. People stay in these relationships partly because they are trying to win back the abuser's affection. However, Thomas told Business Insider that victims also become biologically attached to their abusers through something called "trauma bonding." It's like an addictive drug. It's a bit like becoming addicted to a drug. A psychologically abusive relationship is a rollercoaster, with punishment and then intermittent reinforcement of kindness when you "behave." This means the body is going through its own turmoil, with high levels of the stress hormone cortisol, paired with dopamine when given affection as a reward. "You have this back and forth, and the body becomes addicted," Thomas said. "When we’re looking for something that we want, that we once had, which is a connection with somebody, and they are playing cat and mouse where they are pulling it back and forth, then the body really does become dependent on having that approval." This hormonal rollercoaster really takes its toll on someone's body. Victims might find they break out in acne, even though they've always had good skin. They might have chest pains. Thomas has said that in her practise she has even seen her clients develop autoimmune disorders. "Their bodies start to shut down, and they start really struggling with chronic pain, migraines, and some arthritic type pains and conditions, and they just can’t fight infections as well," she said. "The body really can only take so much stress." Victims stay in these relationships despite of the stress on their bodies, because often it isn't clear to them what the problems really are. Through gaslighting, control, and intermittent love, the abuser has their partner backed into a corner of self-blame and desperation of trying to win back the affection of the person they love. Unfortunately, for many people, when they try to leave these relationships they are so bonded to their abuser that they return. Others don't try to leave at all, and are only freed from the clutches of the abuse when they are discarded. An abusive relationship with a narcissist or psychopath tends to follow the same pattern: idealisation, devaluation, and discarding. At some point, the victim will be so broken, the abuser will no longer get any benefit from using them. They may have totally bankrupted them, or destroyed their confidence, or worse, and they move on to their next target. However, once they are gone, the victim — or survivor as Thomas calls them at this point — can finally start coming round to the idea they were abused. They can grieve, and finally see the damage that was being done, and realise it wasn't their fault. That's when the healing can really begin, Thomas says, and the survivor can realise that they were targeted not because they were weak, but because they had so much to give. These are the signs you might be in a trauma bond with someone, according to Psych Central: A constant pattern of nonperformance — your partner promises you things, but keeps behaving to the contrary. Others are disturbed by something that is said or done to you in your relationship, but you brush it off. You feel stuck in the relationship because you see no way out. You keep having the same fights with your partner that go round in circles with no real winner. You're punished or given the silent treatment by your partner when you say or do something "wrong." You feel unable to detach from your relationship even though you don't truly trust or even like the person you're in it with. When you try and leave, you are plagued by such longing to get back with your partner you feel it might destroy you. Link to comment
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