Red Flags for Toxic friends

[Vanishing Girl]

My past friendships and relationships were so toxic. It would be nice to compile a list of red flags (obvious and less so) to look for, so that as I move forward I am more aware and make better choices.

 

What do you lookout for early on?

[ParisPaulette]

The ones I look for include:

 

*Asking favors of me that are just too big to soon - the new "friend" who wants you to drive them to their doctor's appointment, and it's clear across the city or they want to borrow my car, ask if they can crash at my place, borrow money, otherwise give any indications that they see me as a commodity when they barely know me and vice versa.

 

*Someone who demands you give up something in your schedule or life in favor of their needs. It's fine if a friend asks if you could reschedule something you have, because they are going to go do X, Y or Z and can you come along. BUT to throw a tantrum about it, to make less of what you had to do, to demand you drop the other thing to cater to them, to get irrationally jealous or moody or tell you that you can't dress a certain way? Again, nope.

 

*Flaky people. Stand me up once, okay. Stand me up twice, we're done thank you.

 

*People who say or do things that make you uncomfortable and then tell you it's your imagination or they were "just kidding" or you are "too uptight." In fact, pretty much anyone who belittles you, because you aren't okay with something they've done or said is out.

*People who talk down about others, either just being mean in general - yes even if peppered with platitudes like, "All women/men are blank, but not you, you're different."

 

*Doubly so for the person who whines about how every ex out there has done them wrong. One or two or even a bad streak of choosing the wrong type of person sure, but if every single guy or gal was a liar and a cheater and oh gosh how can they possibly trust you because of it, then run don't walk to the door. Because they are either lying about that or they refuse to change their own issues that lead them to ignore serious red flag behaviors to the point they now see that in everyone. These people need therapy, not someone new to date. The common denominator of repeated bad errors in judgement is the person making the judgments.

 

*Anyone with any sort of criminality either attached to them currently OR who has weird justifications for past criminal behavior. I mean I know people who got their lives turned around and came out of bad situations. They won't tell you they did that, because of mommy or they were molested as a kid or that they were going through a bad period in their life or the cops got the wrong guy. Excuse, excuse, excuse, bs bs bs. They own it, they're somewhat ashamed of it, they can tell you how they made amends for what they did and how they got out of the lifestyle.

 

*Anyone with an addiction - can't go without a drink, can't function without that drug, have DWIs or even a canceled license. And if they are clean that's great, but they need to be in a permanent program and not hanging out with any of their old crowd or heck even at the same job they had when they were an addict. Addicts typically do not get clean and stay clean without major life changes of the pull up stakes, drop the old unhealthy crowd and behaviors, the job where they did cocaine or drank with coworkers etc. etc. etc.

 

*People who invade my personal space (no, a person I met does not have a right to throw their arms around me and hang on like I'm the last chopper out of an airstrike) or want too much personal information about me too soon. Where do you work/live/looking me up on Facebook and demanding I friend them, no boundaries, pushing too hard to insert themselves into my life.

 

I'm sure there are others, but those are the major ones I look for or that will make me now back off of someone. Where I used to say to myself, "Oh, let's insert this excuse here. I'm sure they aren't that bad, and I'm lonely and they seem to like me..." I was the original nice girl doormat, so the list I have has been developed from personal experience. And yes, I was the issue since I didn't have boundaries, didn't expect other people to have them, and didn't demand someone respect me and my time and my things or they could hit the road.

 

Since I've started doing those things I have had far, far fewer troubles with the wrong sort of people being in my life.

 

Lastly, and this is important, if you wouldn't do it to someone else then don't accept it when someone does it to you. I hope this helps.

[Matt3939]

I don't have many friends. Reason why usually I've found. People ask and ask for you to do something for them. It's fine once even twice. Eventually you realize it's all about them. I can pretty much accept anything else. My closest friend is horrable with time. It's extremely rare I ask anyone for anything. I also just ask how they are. Most people never do that.

[lostlove76]

People who seem to be surrounded by a bunch of drama. They will talk/whine about it all the time, and don't seem to care or realize that they're the ones who are bringing it into their lives. I have a few facebook friends (not close friends, just folks I went to high school with) who are constantly posting about all their drama. Everyone seems out to get them, their family hates them, their friend stabbed them in the back, etc etc etc. It's always something, and they're always airing it for all to read. Attention-seekers are what they are, and it's highly annoying. They will drag you into it.

 

People who always need favors or rides or money.

 

People who surround themselves with others who are toxic, because people tend to flock to their own kind.

 

People who latch on too quickly and seem needy for your friendship.

 

People who cheat on their significant others, because it suggests they have no morals or integrity.

 

People who have abandoned their kids so they can run off and party or do their own thing, suggests a high level of immaturity and selfishness.

 

People who make you feel uncomfortable around them, even if you can't quite put your finger on the reason things feel off.

[Hollyj]

People who lie

People who gossip

People who are flaky

People who cheat

People who have addiction issues

People who do not show interest in my life (All about them)

[catfeeder]

It would be most helpful for you to start with your own list based on what you've already learned from the toxic relationships you've mentioned. In what ways were they toxic, and how did you discover this? What red flags do you now see that you missed and wish that you heeded?

 

We all make mistakes in choosing some of our relationships, but the whole point of living through that grief of is to come out the other side stronger, armed with an understanding of where we went wrong in our choices.

 

So start there: list examples of what would you have done differently in each of the outcomes you're not happy with. From there, we can help you fill in what you may have missed. Otherwise, it makes no sense for a bunch of strangers to try to cover every conceivable instance of potentially bad friendships without any input from you about what you've already learned.

 

The goal of adopting discretion is to feel empowered by learning from past experiences, not to grow paranoid about every possible fault others might carry.

[Vanishing Girl]

It would be most helpful for you to start with your own list based on what you've already learned from the toxic relationships you've mentioned. In what ways were they toxic, and how did you discover this? What red flags do you now see that you missed and wish that you heeded?

 

We all make mistakes in choosing some of our relationships, but the whole point of living through that grief of is to come out the other side stronger, armed with an understanding of where we went wrong in our choices.

 

So start there: list examples of what would you have done differently in each of the outcomes you're not happy with. From there, we can help you fill in what you may have missed. Otherwise, it makes no sense for a bunch of strangers to try to cover every conceivable instance of potentially bad friendships without any input from you about what you've already learned.

 

The goal of adopting discretion is to feel empowered by learning from past experiences, not to grow paranoid about every possible fault others might carry.

 

I get what you're saying, and on one hand agree and the other respectfully disagree. I'm struggling to come up with many red flags that aren't obvious to me now....I think partly when I met these people I met their level of toxicity and partly...I'm realizing I've always had such a toxic view of friendship I don't know what's "normal" or healthy. I'm at a reset in my life where I've recently lost/shed many people/things and I learn, in part, by hearing others experiences and by talking it out, which is my prerogative.

 

The last likely non toxic friendships I had were from when I was s little girl (under age 10) and those don't feel "normal" either as there was sexual play involved (I've had therapists tell me all from "that's normal exploration" to blanket statements that we must've all been sexually abused). These friendships of course didn't involve me doing them favors all the time or seem to exude one sidedness, but I can't use them for considering adult friendships.

 

I have considered friends from the last 5-10 years on my own in deeper consideration. The obvious signs are easy: too close too soon, we seemed to drink a lot together and that's mostly what we did, asked for favors all the time, gossip, told me when we first met about their last room mate and how they left them screwed holding the lease because it was better for my "friend", not making any efforts in getting together, we didn't have fun or go out/hang out together, but mostly relied on each other just for emotional support.....

 

I'm meeting a lot of new people and am noticing without the toxic connections there are no connections if you know what I mean. I feel anxious around these new people and conversation doesn't really flow very smooth like it did with the toxic friends. It actually feels like I'm repelling people even though I'm coming in contact with lots of them. Maybe I need a new post for that lol and that's the thing I should focus on...

 

I only have 2 current friends. The one is mostly one of support and she's been a shut in for the last 10 years (known her for over 25 years), but very recently she's been making an effort with herself and was more than willing to go out (when I offered to share a movie gift card with her). We also did lunch out a while back. I'm noticing she's very concerned about spending money for our outings, so I'm not sure how much more we'd even see each other or how much we really have in common now compared to when we were younger.

 

The other friend lives where we just moved from, and seeing each other with our busy schedules and now distance is likely to diminish our friendship greatly. We've talked about doing phone conversations to catch up, but timing wise it's not been working out for either of us. I guess the motivation isn't there enough for either of us.

[Vanishing Girl]

I don't have many friends. Reason why usually I've found. People ask and ask for you to do something for them. It's fine once even twice. Eventually you realize it's all about them. I can pretty much accept anything else. My closest friend is horrable with time. It's extremely rare I ask anyone for anything. I also just ask how they are. Most people never do that.

 

When I really look at most of my friendships this has been a major theme as well. I was never asked by the older friends how I was....only a barrage of them talking about themselves the whole time. My last friend....I thought was healthy(the talking about myself thing)...I started to follow her lead thinking "ok maybe this is how it's supposed to be", but always felt alone in that friendship and of course no other person I meet gives a hoot about hearing anything about me. Lol

 

This week I was really wanting some support. The 3 people I spoke to (individually) literally dumped on me for almost an hour. I'm slowing WAY down. I know I need to get a better handle on my boundaries.

 

Thank you for sharing.

[reinventmyself]

There are many things to look for and most have been stated.

The two most important things I notice first when meeting someone is are they ego centric?

Meaning, do they just need a sounding board? They do all the talking and aren't remotely interested in

an equitable exchange because it's all about them? I have learned to avoid these types and have

eliminated some of them from my life. They take away and have nothing add to your life.

That one is number one for me because it seems to be one I come across the most.

 

Second to this is drama. If someone has a lot of drama in their life and associates with other dramatic people

and relationships is a huge indicator of someone who is toxic.

[Vanishing Girl]

There are many things to look for and most have been stated.

The two most important things I notice first when meeting someone is are they ego centric?

Meaning, do they just need a sounding board? They do all the talking and aren't remotely interested in

an equitable exchange because it's all about them? I have learned to avoid these types and have

eliminated some of them from my life. They take away and have nothing add to your life.

That one is number one for me because it seems to be one I come across the most.

 

Second to this is drama. If someone has a lot of drama in their life and associates with other dramatic people

and relationships is a huge indicator of someone who is toxic.

 

Thank you so much for sharing! That is extremely helpful. Very grateful!

[Hollyj]

Have you tried to meet new people? Get out and join groups, find new hobbies, or volunteer within your community.

[Vanishing Girl]

Have you tried to meet new people? Get out and join groups, find new hobbies, or volunteer within your community.

 

Oh yes! I have been and that's why I'm looking at this now. Lots of new people around me. I'm just in new territory I think.

[ParisPaulette]

Truthfully, most of my friendships revolve around shared activities like work, volunteer work, hobbies or activities I have to take part in long-term and always have. I am not good at just meeting people and having instant friends. I have a sibling who is and he fills me with so much envy sometimes, because he can walk into a store and walk out with half a dozen invites to dinner, parties, you name it.

 

But that isn't me.

 

I do hear you on toxic friendships being easier to fall into, because lots of times I think toxic people have to work harder to be charming, to pull someone in quickly, and it's very easy to respond to that. It's still something I have to watch for, because a really charming extrovert can pull me out of myself fast and I'll find myself just going along for the ride, happy that someone is paying attention to me. It's just the red flags do become easier to spot based on one's own experience and I have developed certain boundaries I make sure to put in place before proceeding. And I've had to get ruthless about that.

 

You will get there by the way, just by recognizing you have this issue you have started to address it and we all start somewhere. Some of it also learning to recognize your own vulnerabilities in a particular area then working out when it's okay, when it's not okay to respond or not respond etc.

 

But shared activities, yeah it can't be beat when it's something you do long-term and you become a part of that community. This also means doing more than just showing up for half an hour then going home, and again it's a learned skill. Case in point my local vet and his staff have become friends as well since I have an animal rescue operation and I started working in his vet clinic sometimes to help pay for the upkeep of my horses.

 

It's also got to do with growing up, I think. The friendships we have as kids or even young adults will be different than those we develop as we get older.

[catfeeder]

I get what you're saying, and on one hand agree and the other respectfully disagree. I'm struggling to come up with many red flags that aren't obvious to me now....I think partly when I met these people I met their level of toxicity and partly...I'm realizing I've always had such a toxic view of friendship I don't know what's "normal" or healthy. I'm at a reset in my life where I've recently lost/shed many people/things and I learn, in part, by hearing others experiences and by talking it out, which is my prerogative.

 

I understand. My goal in prompting you to discuss your experience was to see the degree of work you're doing on your own behalf. You've done a terrific job with this post, and you're doing excellent work with this issue.

 

I have considered friends from the last 5-10 years on my own in deeper consideration. The obvious signs are easy: too close too soon, we seemed to drink a lot together and that's mostly what we did, asked for favors all the time, gossip, told me when we first met about their last room mate and how they left them screwed holding the lease because it was better for my "friend", not making any efforts in getting together, we didn't have fun or go out/hang out together, but mostly relied on each other just for emotional support.....

 

Good observations. Insta-intimacy is not natural for sober people. Trust takes time. Most people engage with a trust meter set to a neutral 5 on a scale of 1 to 10, and they allow people to reveal over time whether more trust is earned or whether it's withdrawn. Healthy people aren't seeking pseudo-therapists, so they won't dump their problems on you--and they won't trust anyone who engages on that level prematurely.

 

meeting a lot of new people and am noticing without the toxic connections there are no connections if you know what I mean. I feel anxious around these new people and conversation doesn't really flow very smooth like it did with the toxic friends. It actually feels like I'm repelling people even though I'm coming in contact with lots of them.

 

You may be raising caution flags if you're engaging in the same way you did with toxic friends. Healthy people take time and repeated exposure before they'll consider bonding to any degree, because they already have friends. Healthy people aren't attracted to premature intimacy--it smacks of neediness, and they aren't interested in being needed any more than they already are.

 

I only have 2 current friends. The one is mostly one of support and she's been a shut in for the last 10 years (known her for over 25 years), but very recently she's been making an effort with herself and was more than willing to go out (when I offered to share a movie gift card with her). We also did lunch out a while back. I'm noticing she's very concerned about spending money for our outings, so I'm not sure how much more we'd even see each other or how much we really have in common now compared to when we were younger.

 

The other friend lives where we just moved from, and seeing each other with our busy schedules and now distance is likely to diminish our friendship greatly. We've talked about doing phone conversations to catch up, but timing wise it's not been working out for either of us. I guess the motivation isn't there enough for either of us.

 

Maturity forces us to seek different kinds and degrees of friendships to serve different purposes in our lives. Gone are the days of forming the kind of 'best' friends we had as kids, where one person could meet all of our needs. We were blank slates then, and we homogenized well with others. As adults, we've grown more stable in our personalities, and we won't be everyone's cup of tea. So your shut-in friend might be great for conversation but not travel or events, and a shopping friend might be a lousy conversationalist. A tennis friend might be your political or religious opposite, a movie friend might be great at dissecting films but not real life, a hobby friend might not have time to meet for anything else...

 

You get the point. The idea is to diversify and find commonality around which to base acquaintanceships. If any of those grow into a more intimate friendship over time, great. If not, appreciate and respect the limits of each friendship, and go make more friends over time.

 

Head high, this isn't an easy stage for anyone who's recognize a need to clear their address book of people who no longer serve them. It's a natural stage, and it signifies growth beyond the limits of partying. It will work out in time, it's just uncomfortable to make the shift.

[notalady]

I'm meeting a lot of new people and am noticing without the toxic connections there are no connections if you know what I mean. I feel anxious around these new people and conversation doesn't really flow very smooth like it did with the toxic friends. It actually feels like I'm repelling people even though I'm coming in contact with lots of them. Maybe I need a new post for that lol and that's the thing I should focus on...

 

This part stood out to me. I think that's the heart of the problem, aside from identifying toxic people, I think that you got so used to the toxic, unhealthy way of relating to people, such that you're having trouble connecting with people who are actually seeking healthy connections.

 

For instance, if you are used to connecting with toxic friends by complaining about others or gossiping or any kind of negativity, you may find you go straight for those kinds of topics when you meet with new people, and healthy people instantly identify you as negative, gossipy and stay away from you.

 

And if you are mindful about what you say so as to not project that image, you might feel like you're having troubling finding other things to say or connect over, because your life and past relationships/friendships are filled with that stuff, you don't have anything else to share or connect over.

 

I remember meeting a girl at a meet up that seemed nice, but she complained a lot, to everyone, about her work situation (red flag #1). These are all random people meeting for the first time ever. No one was actually keen to be friend her after that. I too was staying away from her due to the negativity, but she seemed to really like me, and wanted to add me on Facebook on the spot (red flag #2). I should've found an excuse and refused but I had a weak moment, so we became Facebook friends. She messaged me a number of times after, asking about my life and wanting to catch up. But I soon found that her asking about me was only a lead up to allow her to talk about herself (red flag #3). She sprung all kinds of family drama and friendship drama on me, over Facebook message, after meeting me once (red flag #4). The whole time I'm just thinking, why the hell are you telling me all this? We're not even friends! And well, never will be now that I'm so turned off, I'm staying the hell away. The sad thing was, I don't think she realise she's projecting this image and not only perpetuating, but initiating this kinds of dynamic. I no longer responded to her messages after that and she stopped.

 

I think you need to start with looking within yourself to see what you're doing to help perpetuate toxic dynamics and what you can do differently. Also, it will be helpful to start filling your life with positivity. So do things that you enjoy, take up new activities and hobbies, embrace hobbies you already have, take adventures. Ask people questions and be genuine about learning about them. Soon you'll find you have a whole lot to share and connect over when you meet new people, it will become easy and natural.

[notalady]

Just adding that, that girl I met was actually quite genuine, I could tell she really wanted to make new friends and she was kind of lonely. So I did feel bad for her. But I simply do not need nor want all that negativity and drama and neediness in my life.

[Vanishing Girl]

Truthfully, most of my friendships revolve around shared activities like work, volunteer work, hobbies or activities I have to take part in long-term and always have. I am not good at just meeting people and having instant friends. I have a sibling who is and he fills me with so much envy sometimes, because he can walk into a store and walk out with half a dozen invites to dinner, parties, you name it.

 

But that isn't me.

 

I do hear you on toxic friendships being easier to fall into, because lots of times I think toxic people have to work harder to be charming, to pull someone in quickly, and it's very easy to respond to that. It's still something I have to watch for, because a really charming extrovert can pull me out of myself fast and I'll find myself just going along for the ride, happy that someone is paying attention to me. It's just the red flags do become easier to spot based on one's own experience and I have developed certain boundaries I make sure to put in place before proceeding. And I've had to get ruthless about that.

 

You will get there by the way, just by recognizing you have this issue you have started to address it and we all start somewhere. Some of it also learning to recognize your own vulnerabilities in a particular area then working out when it's okay, when it's not okay to respond or not respond etc.

 

But shared activities, yeah it can't be beat when it's something you do long-term and you become a part of that community. This also means doing more than just showing up for half an hour then going home, and again it's a learned skill. Case in point my local vet and his staff have become friends as well since I have an animal rescue operation and I started working in his vet clinic sometimes to help pay for the upkeep of my horses.

 

It's also got to do with growing up, I think. The friendships we have as kids or even young adults will be different than those we develop as we get older.

 

You bring up excellent points for me to consider! Thank you.

 

Could you share what boundaries you put in place? I have found myself in situations like that in the past (where a social extrovert pulled me out of myself-so to speak) and I went along for the ride and then when things got crazy I was like "whoa, how did I let myself get this far?" That doesn't happen much these days, but still curious since I clearly need to work on my boundaries still.

 

Also, what is a learned skill?

 

I am involved in a kids/mothers coop that my son and I attend. So far, we have been just showing up every week and (I feel) not contributing much. So far, I've worked on getting myself calm and grounded there, so I'm not so anxious. Operation next step: learn how to ask others more open ended questions and put that into practice. And then (per my therapist) start asking for what I'd like to see happen in the group and offer to head up those activities.

[Vanishing Girl]

I understand. My goal in prompting you to discuss your experience was to see the degree of work you're doing on your own behalf. You've done a terrific job with this post, and you're doing excellent work with this issue.

 

 

 

Good observations. Insta-intimacy is not natural for sober people. Trust takes time. Most people engage with a trust meter set to a neutral 5 on a scale of 1 to 10, and they allow people to reveal over time whether more trust is earned or whether it's withdrawn. Healthy people aren't seeking pseudo-therapists, so they won't dump their problems on you--and they won't trust anyone who engages on that level prematurely.

 

 

 

You may be raising caution flags if you're engaging in the same way you did with toxic friends. Healthy people take time and repeated exposure before they'll consider bonding to any degree, because they already have friends. Healthy people aren't attracted to premature intimacy--it smacks of neediness, and they aren't interested in being needed any more than they already are.

 

 

 

Maturity forces us to seek different kinds and degrees of friendships to serve different purposes in our lives. Gone are the days of forming the kind of 'best' friends we had as kids, where one person could meet all of our needs. We were blank slates then, and we homogenized well with others. As adults, we've grown more stable in our personalities, and we won't be everyone's cup of tea. So your shut-in friend might be great for conversation but not travel or events, and a shopping friend might be a lousy conversationalist. A tennis friend might be your political or religious opposite, a movie friend might be great at dissecting films but not real life, a hobby friend might not have time to meet for anything else...

 

You get the point. The idea is to diversify and find commonality around which to base acquaintanceships. If any of those grow into a more intimate friendship over time, great. If not, appreciate and respect the limits of each friendship, and go make more friends over time.

 

Head high, this isn't an easy stage for anyone who's recognize a need to clear their address book of people who no longer serve them. It's a natural stage, and it signifies growth beyond the limits of partying. It will work out in time, it's just uncomfortable to make the shift.

 

This is extremely helpful feedback too! Thank you.

 

I'm pretty sure I still ooze of "stay away". I AM not used to communicating in a non toxic way. It takes awareness, effort, and as I'm finding a plan otherwise I barely engage at all. Lol my family all related by complaining and talking about death, problems, and disease. I'm used to being the one everyone dumped on (and apparently still am). Without being the listener or talking about problems, I don't know what to talk to others about (without talking about my own interests).So far at our coop moms group I've stuck mostly to talking about the kids and only talked about my own interests when other moms ask me directly about myself. My starting point from here is to learn how to be comfortable asking questions/engaging others I might admire or see positive qualities in and contributing more to the group activities as a whole.

 

Your whole last paragraph- yes there is this little girl inside who is looking for my bff. I have you remember what you mentioned here about diversity in friendships.

 

I'm at a very new leg of my journey, so for now I'm moving very slowly in the above and mainly just trying to be the best friend to myself I can possibly be.

 

Thank you for the awesome points and tips!

[Vanishing Girl]

This part stood out to me. I think that's the heart of the problem, aside from identifying toxic people, I think that you got so used to the toxic, unhealthy way of relating to people, such that you're having trouble connecting with people who are actually seeking healthy connections.

 

For instance, if you are used to connecting with toxic friends by complaining about others or gossiping or any kind of negativity, you may find you go straight for those kinds of topics when you meet with new people, and healthy people instantly identify you as negative, gossipy and stay away from you.

 

And if you are mindful about what you say so as to not project that image, you might feel like you're having troubling finding other things to say or connect over, because your life and past relationships/friendships are filled with that stuff, you don't have anything else to share or connect over.

 

I remember meeting a girl at a meet up that seemed nice, but she complained a lot, to everyone, about her work situation (red flag #1). These are all random people meeting for the first time ever. No one was actually keen to be friend her after that. I too was staying away from her due to the negativity, but she seemed to really like me, and wanted to add me on Facebook on the spot (red flag #2). I should've found an excuse and refused but I had a weak moment, so we became Facebook friends. She messaged me a number of times after, asking about my life and wanting to catch up. But I soon found that her asking about me was only a lead up to allow her to talk about herself (red flag #3). She sprung all kinds of family drama and friendship drama on me, over Facebook message, after meeting me once (red flag #4). The whole time I'm just thinking, why the hell are you telling me all this? We're not even friends! And well, never will be now that I'm so turned off, I'm staying the hell away. The sad thing was, I don't think she realise she's projecting this image and not only perpetuating, but initiating this kinds of dynamic. I no longer responded to her messages after that and she stopped.

 

I think you need to start with looking within yourself to see what you're doing to help perpetuate toxic dynamics and what you can do differently. Also, it will be helpful to start filling your life with positivity. So do things that you enjoy, take up new activities and hobbies, embrace hobbies you already have, take adventures. Ask people questions and be genuine about learning about them. Soon you'll find you have a whole lot to share and connect over when you meet new people, it will become easy and natural.

 

I think you're right.

I'm struggling to find exactly what I do and am thinking it's not what actually do anymore, but like you said it's how my past was so now I'm finding I'm more in an anxiety freeze and questioning every potential word that wants to come out of my mouth. It's not helping. Lol

 

I'm sure (without it being anything I say or do) I still am oozing neediness because I genuinely want a sounding board and to be heard and understood, etc. it's been missing from my life for all my life. BUT, I'm learning how to give it to myself first and between this board and my therapist I'm learning new ways.

 

Thank you so much for sharing. Your personal share was extremely helpful as I'm sure I possess/possessed many qualities as the girl you walked away from. That helps me to see I'm closer to where I want to be than I thought I was too!

 

Thanks again!

[Naomi99]

I'm often disconnected to people who are always asking how much things cost, or how much was your house, how much did you pay for your car, how much was XYZ?

That, to me, is a red flag.

[catfeeder]

I'm pretty sure I still ooze of "stay away".

 

In what way(s) do you believe that you send that message?

 

I AM not used to communicating in a non toxic way.

 

What are your current ways of communicating that you believe are toxic? I don't mean in the past, with toxic folks, but in the present with new people?

 

takes awareness, effort, and as I'm finding a plan otherwise I barely engage at all.

 

Yep, awareness and effort are the foundational ways we change any habit. They create the gap needed to insert new behaviors. So of course it feels laborious and unnatural at first, but a coach at work said it takes 21 days to anchor a new habit in the mind. Apparently, that's how long it takes for the brain to build new pathways that make a new action feel familiar.

 

However, you're working with more complexity than just inserting new behavior because you're dealing with new people. You're being smart, because this does require a period of observation. You're learning them. You're avoiding a barge-in, and you're taking the time to normalize in a new environment while allowing familiarity to creep in. This works in both directions: you're becoming familiar with them and their ways, and you're allowing them to become comfortable with you without oversharing or dominating their focus. That's good, because disruption isn't a friend maker. Attention seekers tend to rub people the wrong way. Best to adopt the power of invisibility and introduce more of your personality over time and gently as you sense more and more of a welcoming to do so.

 

my family all related by complaining and talking about death, problems, and disease.

 

Good observation. This taught you certain norms that are aversive to anyone who was not taught the same, and your ability to see this will break a cycle of bringing these old norms into new environments. Over time your new habits will also alert you to any environments and people who mimic this old pattern, and rather than feeling comfortable, they will feel creepy. Great job!

 

I'm used to being the one everyone dumped on (and apparently still am).

 

Not still. You're breaking from the old reciprocity in two ways: First, you're exposing yourself to new environments where complaints are not the focus of the bond, such as bars or parties where people regress into that 'stuff'. Second, you're not bringing that 'stuff' into the new environments.

 

There's your magic duo. From here it's just a matter of conditioning yourself to operate freely and comfortably outside of the old environments without bringing any of the old habits with you, AND, recognizing anyone else who operates the way you're leaving--and avoiding that person until you're on solid ground.

 

The more solid you become with your footing away from people who behave the way your family conditioned you, the more natural it will become, and the more keenly you will be focused on positive and productive behaviors and ways of thinking. Yes, this will irk your family when you visit, so be prepared for some backlash there (research: breaking from 'tribal' or 'provincial' behaviors), but otherwise, you're forming new synapses in your brain that will help you find positivity and interests beyond complainer-drama to be more familiar and natural over time.

 

A byproduct of this is that people who operate in ways you've left behind will stand out like a sore thumb. You'll identify them CLEARLY, and you'll understand why you left the toxicity of that 'stuff' behind.

 

Without being the listener or talking about problems, I don't know what to talk to others about (without talking about my own interests).

 

Your own interests are safe ground in small doses, as long as they're positive and you're good natured about them. For example, think of the difference between a toxic versus a healthy person describing dog walking. The healthy person focuses on good aspects of the day, the neighborhood, the personality of the dog, pleasant experiences with other dog walkers. The toxic person focuses on bad weather, problems cleaning up after the dog, lousy neighbors who don't control their pets.

 

Other conversation helpers are gentle questions about another's interests. A healthy person allows others to remain focused on the positive aspects with encouraging questions that keep the flow in that direction. A toxic person disrupts that flow by prying into costs, locations, reasons why such a thing wouldn't be good for her, one-upping with better 'advice' on how to do it, or otherwise switching the subject back to herself.

 

So far at our coop moms group I've stuck mostly to talking about the kids and only talked about my own interests when other moms ask me directly about myself. My starting point from here is to learn how to be comfortable asking questions/engaging others I might admire or see positive qualities in and contributing more to the group activities as a whole.

 

Good. You're laying a great foundation. Consider two descriptions

as the same thing: observation mode and invisibility. Adopting both of these as you explore new environments and people allows you to learn enough about both to fit in well over time.

 

Dominators tend to bomb out early. In their rush for attention, they plow over people and offend others--either one at a time as they focus on 'winning' those who appear to be 'fans,' or they turn off the whole group as they suck all the air from the room. You're being smart, instead. It may not feel like you're forming connections, but that's because you're not yet accustomed to subtlety.

 

Your whole last paragraph- yes there is this little girl inside who is looking for my bff. I have you remember what you mentioned here about diversity in friendships.

 

Yes, the BFF thing won't evolve with most people, and that's okay. Everything grows from casual acquaintances. Most people will remain in that category, and that's natural. Over time, more sincere and invested bonds will form with certain acquaintances after the seeds are planted and the conditions for growth are 1) present and reciprocal, and 2) a good fit for the particular timing and circumstances of both of your lives. Sounds rare? It is. That's why it makes no sense to shoot directly for that and to view anything less as a fail. Acquaintances are not failures, they each have value--and it's fine for that value to be limited.

 

I'm at a very new leg of my journey, so for now I'm moving very slowly in the above and mainly just trying to be the best friend to myself I can possibly be.

 

Perfect! You're doing great!

[trojan]

People who seem to be surrounded by a bunch of drama. They will talk/whine about it all the time, and don't seem to care or realize that they're the ones who are bringing it into their lives. I have a few facebook friends (not close friends, just folks I went to high school with) who are constantly posting about all their drama. Everyone seems out to get them, their family hates them, their friend stabbed them in the back, etc etc etc. It's always something, and they're always airing it for all to read. Attention-seekers are what they are, and it's highly annoying. They will drag you into it.

 

Hmmmm...I am wondering if I am guilty of this(?) I usually dont vent these sort of things too soon to friends, but after a while if I know them years, I do seem to find a lot of drama and vent it to friends. I am always in these odd situations, or see the problem where others see no problem. I find if I do not vent these problems to someone eventually, I spend a lot of time brooding. I have a couple that seem to enjoy sometimes hearing about the drama in my life, especially in that I can often make it into a humerous enjoyable story. On the other hand I can also sense that at times they get tired of me talking about it. I have asked them a few times if they think its odd that all these things happen to me or if I actually just make it up in my head. It just seems that I often have weird situations with employers/family/aquaintences/friends, and it happens to me way more often than anyone else. Or it is all in my head? but like I said if I dont vent it to someone I brood about it. And often if I vent it a friend may help me through it. But, I may also be quite annoying with this venting

[lostlove76]

People who seem to be surrounded by a bunch of drama. They will talk/whine about it all the time, and don't seem to care or realize that they're the ones who are bringing it into their lives. I have a few facebook friends (not close friends, just folks I went to high school with) who are constantly posting about all their drama. Everyone seems out to get them, their family hates them, their friend stabbed them in the back, etc etc etc. It's always something, and they're always airing it for all to read. Attention-seekers are what they are, and it's highly annoying. They will drag you into it.

 

Hmmmm...I am wondering if I am guilty of this(?) I usually dont vent these sort of things too soon to friends, but after a while if I know them years, I do seem to find a lot of drama and vent it to friends. I am always in these odd situations, or see the problem where others see no problem. I find if I do not vent these problems to someone eventually, I spend a lot of time brooding. I have a couple that seem to enjoy sometimes hearing about the drama in my life, especially in that I can often make it into a humerous enjoyable story. On the other hand I can also sense that at times they get tired of me talking about it. I have asked them a few times if they think its odd that all these things happen to me or if I actually just make it up in my head. It just seems that I often have weird situations with employers/family/aquaintences/friends, and it happens to me way more often than anyone else. Or it is all in my head? but like I said if I dont vent it to someone I brood about it. And often if I vent it a friend may help me through it. But, I may also be quite annoying with this venting

 

Hmm. Well, venting is different from what I'm talking about, I think. I vent as well. If I let it build up inside, it explodes outward at some point (usually in a vent-fest during which I'm all stressed out and highly annoyed, and then feel better once I get it all off my chest). What I'm talking about is more to do with people who have constant conflict and always play the victim. I don't know you, so I don't know if you do this or not But if you think you might, then maybe it's something worth exploring. The kind of people I'm talking about ALWAYS have something to whine or complain about, are ALWAYS being done wrong by someone, ALWAYS have someone talking about them behind their back, etc etc - these are just examples. It's just always, always something. And then they attention-seek by posting about it all over facebook. It just reads DRAMA, and when someone has that much drama, it's because they're inviting it into their life. They seem to enjoy it, because if they didn't, they wouldn't be surrounded by it all the time. The reason I find these types of people toxic is because it's tiresome and annoying and emotionally draining. If something isn't a big deal, they will be sure to make it one. It's all about attention. I'm not talking about people who have genuine problems here and there, or people who have anxiety issues or depression or anything like that. I'm talking about people who are overly theatrical about it. Making something into a humorous story, like you say you do, I see no problem with Asking advice from a friend, no problem. If you go to the extreme with airing your problems, and if you always have various conflicts with people, then you might want to ask yourself where all that is coming from and see if you can get a handle on it.

[Batya33]

"Hmmmm...I am wondering if I am guilty of this(?) I usually dont vent these sort of things too soon to friends, but after a while if I know them years, I do seem to find a lot of drama and vent it to friends. I am always in these odd situations, or see the problem where others see no problem. I find if I do not vent these problems to someone eventually, I spend a lot of time brooding. I have a couple that seem to enjoy sometimes hearing about the drama in my life, especially in that I can often make it into a humerous enjoyable story. On the other hand I can also sense that at times they get tired of me talking about it. I have asked them a few times if they think its odd that all these things happen to me or if I actually just make it up in my head. It just seems that I often have weird situations with employers/family/aquaintences/friends, and it happens to me way more often than anyone else. Or it is all in my head? but like I said if I dont vent it to someone I brood about it. And often if I vent it a friend may help me through it. But, I may also be quite annoying with this venting"

 

So the issue with this is -you vent to avoid brooding about it -but how is that being a good friend? Aren't you then using your friends to vent to to help yourself not brood? Why not find another outlet -exercise, dance, a therapist, etc?

[trojan]

"Hmmmm...I am wondering if I am guilty of this(?) I usually dont vent these sort of things too soon to friends, but after a while if I know them years, I do seem to find a lot of drama and vent it to friends. I am always in these odd situations, or see the problem where others see no problem. I find if I do not vent these problems to someone eventually, I spend a lot of time brooding. I have a couple that seem to enjoy sometimes hearing about the drama in my life, especially in that I can often make it into a humerous enjoyable story. On the other hand I can also sense that at times they get tired of me talking about it. I have asked them a few times if they think its odd that all these things happen to me or if I actually just make it up in my head. It just seems that I often have weird situations with employers/family/aquaintences/friends, and it happens to me way more often than anyone else. Or it is all in my head? but like I said if I dont vent it to someone I brood about it. And often if I vent it a friend may help me through it. But, I may also be quite annoying with this venting"

 

So the issue with this is -you vent to avoid brooding about it -but how is that being a good friend? Aren't you then using your friends to vent to to help yourself not brood? Why not find another outlet -exercise, dance, a therapist, etc?

 

Yes, I am using them to vent to. I have to vent to somebody, right? I mean if I vent to my dog it has little theraputic value.

This is all off topic from what the OP started, but 'toxic friends' caught my eye, and I am trying to be less of one. I dont do any of the other stuff in the list as far as I know. But here and there I do some complaining about the injustices of the world. I spend my vacation time helping someone replace the roof on their house and when I need some help moving apartments 2 years later, its like they dont remember me. People might slip out the back door and not pay me after I have done a job for them. A mutual acquaintence might stab you in the back, and so you vent to the person that knows them.

It seems to me almost everybody does this. Im well aware that people talk about me, sometimes in unsavory terms, and actually it doesnt bother me too much. Most people sort of do this to one degree or another, it seems to me. You should meet my family! They are forever tearing each other apart when the 'victim' is not present.

I only know one person that never does this. She is Happy, Happy, Happy! She forgives one and all for anything that they do to her. This can sometimes be a little weird.

The world is a chaotic place, sometimes harsh and cold, sometimes dog-eat-dog. You sort of have to fight to survive. And that sometimes means you get shafted by freinds and bosses and family members. Its not all a bed of roses.

Anyway, Im venting again arent I??