need help believing what is true and not true

[polise]

Hi, I have a dodgy situation which I can't seem to let go of, because I'm not sure who to trust.

 

This is what I know factually happened

Recently my girlfriend got very drunk at a university event, she was kicked out by one of the bartenders and taken home by two very nice friends and helped out by security. My girlfriend's flatmates verified this and I saw some of the drunk messages she sent to her friends. She deleted whatever she exchanged with this guy who I will later mention.

 

When she was back in her room, she sent most of her friends (and me) drunk incoherent stuff. I was asleep at the time, sadly. One particular person was being messaged and he came over and basically took advantage of her while she was drunk, including having sex. My girlfriend had to get the morning after pill and she was extremely upset, she told me the next day and was in tears when she told me because I was kind of silent at first and wasn't sure what to say. This was roughly 1 month ago and we've been together since early October and we are still together now. My girlfriend said she can't remember much of it but still believes it wasn't rape because she vaguely remembers saying "yes".

 

I've seen messages exchanged between these two prior to this incident, and this guy once said (about 2 weeks before) "If you were single do you think we would be shagging?" and my girlfriend shrugged it off as friendly banter, because they were close-ish friends beforehand. I've seen messages my girlfriend has exchanged with her close friends, and she confirms that she feels she was taken advantage of.

 

What I'm having problems with

So this guy and my girlfriend were pretty close beforehand. This guy had told my girlfriend that he had feelings for her and from the message I typed above, he wasn't afraid to talk sexual.

 

Right after this event, I asked her to consider reporting it - she doesn't want to because she wants to forget about it. I asked her to block this guy and stop talking to him, she didn't and he sometimes sends drunk messages and is often trying to make contact:

1. he tried to contact her because I basically went over to this guy's flat and told him to stay away from my girlfriend, and he told her what I did.

2. they met once since so that she could ask him why he did what he did, although that's just what she told me.

3. he asked recently if she took a pregnancy test.

 

I really wanted her to stop talking to this guy. I'm not sure why she continues, whether its because there's stuff she isn't telling me or whether its because she wants to stay friends. I really don't know.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope some of this makes sense. I really like her and I know she really likes me, based on her messages to her friends, which I've been a bit naughty and taken a look at her phone messages while she was asleep, because I wasn't sure if I could trust her.

 

I am just not sure if she's hiding something from me, and I don't get why she doesn't listen to me when I want her to stop being in contact with him. I asked her to delete / block him on everything and she has ignored it a few times.

 

Thanks

[j.man]

2. they met once since so that she could ask him why he did what he did, although that's just what she told me.

 

Nope, sorry. I'd be out.

 

There's a lot of gray here. Alcohol inhibits long-term memory, so she'll likely never know what happened or what her level of capacity was, and neither will you. I've been so drunk I've been kicked out of bars and remembered quite a bit leading up it and after. It's a toss-up.

 

That said, all you can and should do is take her at her word. Or at the very least, don't vocally doubt her. It's not your place. However, you are well within your rights to look out for your own emotional well-being, and if my girlfriend believed she was sexually assaulted by a man but still remained in contact with said man, even going as far as to meet with him, I'd cut the cord real quick. That's way more necessary drama and worry than I need in my life. Certainly not just two months into dating.

 

So stop snooping. None of this entitles you to invade her privacy. Stop making suggestions or demands on how to handle it. If you don't trust her, you don't trust her. And if you don't, do her and yourself a favor and leave her.

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately it sounds like she's coyly trying to admit to but not admit to a drunken hookup with this friend. She seems to want to keep talking to him and hanging out. Why isn't she using protection?

My girlfriend said she can't remember much of it but still believes it wasn't rape because she vaguely remembers saying "yes". I asked her to consider reporting it - she doesn't want to because she wants to forget about it. I asked her to block this guy and stop talking to him, she didn't and he sometimes sends drunk messages and is often trying to make contact: 2. they met once since so that she could ask him why he did what he did, although that's just what she told me.

[polise]

Unfortunately it sounds like she's coyly trying to admit to but not admit to a drunken hookup with this friend. She seems to want to keep talking to him and hanging out. Why isn't she using protection?

 

Perhaps, but I'm not sure.. I haven't got any physical confirmation of this other than her words, but she told me that her flatmates were taking care of her, her flatmates had her phone and explicitly told this guy not to come over after he asked if he should, and he came anyway. He brought a condom but apparently it broke, and the next day her flatmates said he was claiming that he was drunk or saying that she led him on, something my girlfriend has denied. I don't know what to believe, but she hasn't hanged out with this guy at all. They met up because she was upset and wanted to ask why she did it, as far as I know...

[Wiseman2]

She, not her flatmates decides whether he comes over or not. Your end runs of confronting him or consulting her flatmates is not only not working, it's backfiring.

 

He brought a condom, she said "yes", so it's clear they BOTH wanted sex. it sounds like you and she have horrible communication, partly because she's "fuzzy" (lying) and partly because you are running around playing cop and talking to this guy, her friends, roommates, etc.

 

When you admit to yourself that she knowingly and willingly had sex with this friend, hangs out with, chats with and met up with this guy, you'll be crystal clear on what to do.

her flatmates had her phone and explicitly told this guy not to come over after he asked if he should, and he came anyway.They met up because she was upset and wanted to ask why she did it, as far as I know...

[polise]

She, not her flatmates decides whether he comes over or not. Your end runs of confronting him or consulting her flatmates is not only not working, it's backfiring.

 

He brought a condom, she said "yes", so it's clear they BOTH wanted sex. it sounds like you and she have horrible communication, partly because she's "fuzzy" (lying) and partly because you are running around playing cop and talking to this guy, her friends, roommates, etc.

 

When you admit to yourself that she knowingly and willingly had sex with this friend, hangs out with, chats with and met up with this guy, you'll be crystal clear on what to do.

 

I understand that there is a very realistic chance that she cheated on me, so I get it, but things do not add up. I have considered, every day, that she's being dishonest and that she's lying to me and I'm not scared of realising that, but I don't think its the case.

 

I'll be a bit clearer about what has happened since:

 

As soon as I left her for the first time after hearing it, I went over to his flat and I told him to stay away from my girlfriend. He walked right past me and didn't even look at me.

Since then I was drunk at a pub with my flatmates, and one of his flatmates went to the same school as one of mine, and I told her a bit of what happened.

That's pretty much it, I've asked a few close friends what their take is on it, but I haven't been policing this as you say.

 

Her flatmates and best friend already knew about it. She messaged two of her flatmates and one of her best friends the next day, and she went over to one of their rooms and was basically crying about it. There's one friend who I knew knew what happened and had seen what she sent to him and what she received back, and she told me she believes it wasn't her fault, and this guy basically tried messaging her to tell her to forget about it and he tried to convince her that he was drunk.

 

I also saw messages between my girlfriend and this best friend, from their communications, it seems like she feels that she was definitely taken advantage of, but she doesn't want to follow it up because of the implications. She was messaging her best friend in the run up to telling me, and this best friend kept talking about how my girlfriend didn't want sex to happen any all of that stuff. I've seen virtually all of the communications she's made about it except between the guy, and all of it points to her being taken advantage of. She could, of course, be lying to all of them as well.

 

She does not hang out or chat with this guy.

 

What has happened since is:

1. they exchanged messages after, she basically asked him why he took advantage

2. they decided to talk about it in person one night, he basically said that she said that she "liked him" and he still thinks he didn't do anything wrong

3. he's sent a few random snapchats and drunk messages

4. he recently asked if she took a pregnancy test

 

And to be honest, I don't even know if he had a condom, apparently it "broke" but there's a chance he didn't have one and just did it anyway.

 

Unless she's lying to every single one of her close friends, she did not willingly do it. This guy obviously wanted to hook up with her, and whether or not my girlfriend hinted at it while drunk, he came over and did this, and she doesn't remember much of it.

[Wiseman2]

They never do when someone is lying. But you love her and want more than anything to believe this was a mistake or just happened or she played no role in it, so you can blame him and move on.

things do not add up.

[polise]

They never do when someone is lying. But you love her and want more than anything to believe this was a mistake or just happened or she played no role in it, so you can blame him and move on.

 

When I said "things to not add up", I'm referring to your perspective of the situation, if it is true. Things add up fine for my perspective right now, and trust me, I don't "want to believe" this was a mistake, I'm not afraid of knowing what happened.

[nutbrownhare]

2. they met once since so that she could ask him why he did what he did, although that's just what she told me.

 

Nope, sorry. I'd be out.

 

There's a lot of gray here. Alcohol inhibits long-term memory, so she'll likely never know what happened or what her level of capacity was, and neither will you. I've been so drunk I've been kicked out of bars and remembered quite a bit leading up it and after. It's a toss-up.

 

That said, all you can and should do is take her at her word. Or at the very least, don't vocally doubt her. It's not your place. However, you are well within your rights to look out for your own emotional well-being, and if my girlfriend believed she was sexually assaulted by a man but still remained in contact with said man, even going as far as to meet with him, I'd cut the cord real quick. That's way more necessary drama and worry than I need in my life. Certainly not just two months into dating.

 

So stop snooping. None of this entitles you to invade her privacy. Stop making suggestions or demands on how to handle it. If you don't trust her, you don't trust her. And if you don't, do her and yourself a favor and leave her.

 

This ^^^.

 

Many of us have done absolutely stupid, bonehead things when we were young and drunk which we wouldn't even contemplate sober.

 

What is a lot more worrying than the drunken incident is that she continues to stay in contact with a guy she claims raped her, and refuses to block him.

[zeino]

In some countries, if you can prove this, this is actually rape because consent given when drunk does not count as consent. But the proof aspect is very difficult especially because evidence needs to be collected as soon as possible. And the debate between two parties is always very messy.

 

I'm not saying these to start the age-old discussion about who becomes a victim of what with this, but please know that this situation is probably taxing for your girlfriend - despite lack of clarity. She is probably going through a lot of shame, things are messy in her head either way (drunk cheating is emotionally difficult, too.) At this stage, she may be incapable of exhibiting proper boundary behaviour you rightfully expect.

 

I believe this can best be handled by a trusted counselor with experience on rape. She would feel safer, perhaps she would have more clarity about what happened etc. It would be an empowering experience that helps her feel stronger so there is more of a chance that she stops gray area behaviour with everyone. If you choose to suggest this to her, saying "this experience" instead of rape will be less threatening - she may feel scared as she may think she will be obliged to prove this is rape. Keep it at the "experience" level, suggest that some help will be very empowering and soothing for her and then back off for a while, watching where this is going. At one point she will speak to you, or if you think it is taking too long, you can speak to her but she will have a better mindset which will be beneficial to both of you. I wouldn't put any boundaries at this stage and I wouldn't approach the other guy, either. Time for that may or may not come.