When to fight and when to move on...

[Hugwolf]

I've been pondering this a lot regarding my most relationship failure as I've received a lot of advice from friends, family, and people here in my thread "Went south after moving in together" in the Breaking up section. Most advice and comments go something like "you deserve better," "she has serious unresolved issues and you need to run," "you saw the red flags and ignored them," or "why on earth do you want to fight for this one?"

 

I think in relationships it's valid to apply the idiom "it takes two to tango." Sometimes a partner may do something extremely hurtful such as be abusive or be unfaithful and it is much clearer where the blame lies. But, generally, I think it is reasonable to say that that there are always two sides of the story and both sides are 100% valid and important. We all so very complicated and things are rarely black and white. Unless someone has genuinely given up on self growth or obviously given up on committing to the relationship, both parties have equally participated in the rise or fall of the relationship.

 

In light of the fact that people are different, will not always agree or get along, and, most of all, that long term relationships take a lot of work in ways that some people don't comprehend, why is it that when relationships look their darkest that most advice encourages leaving it behind to look for something new?

 

I guess what I'm getting at, is when we share our experiences in places like this or to friends, so often it is the bad parts of our relationships that are hurting us. We are sharing our one side of the story in a very complicated interaction happening between two people. We explain and complain about all the things that our partner has done to harm the relationship with perhaps much less comprehension of that we ourselves have done to contribute to the demise. Both stories from both partners are true. Maybe the solution isn't so often to let go and repeat our own unidentified patterns that may have exposed our partner's weaknesses too, but to stay and identify how we have contributed to the problem.

 

Of course, if our partners do not have a commitment to self growth, are unable to call out us on our bs, or have already given up and decided to leave, then the advice to move on is good. It takes two to tango, like I said.

 

This thought comes from the fact that I have noticed most advice to let go and move on to come from singles, or those who have not been able to hold down a life-long relationship (I don't know if that's the case with the individuals who have replied to my posts here), and i wonder if they themselves understand what it would take to make such a relationship work. Those I have spoken to who have been married for decades more rarely suggest that I give up on something I love and clearly still want to fight for despite the pain. These people all have endless stories of how difficult their journey has been but how rewarding the process has been.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Hermes]

Yes. and I am not single.

 

If something is harming and hurtful, give it up.

 

"Difficult" and "challenging" are two different things.

 

"If it hurts it isn't love". A relationship is not supposed to be painful. Challenging at times, for sure.

 

Yes, long-term relationships do take work, of course they do.

[Matt3939]

I'm single now but have been in LTRs. Sometimes myself included. Fight way to long. Sometimes it's better to move on sometimes it's not. I think this is an on basis thing.

[Hermes]

"....still want to fight for despite the pain."

 

If there is pain something is not right.

 

Speaking of basis, the time to think is BEFORE one acts. An awful lot of people don't look at (or worse, don't want to look at) the "other" and the red flags which are always there.

[ThatwasThen]

Those I have spoken to who have been married for decades more rarely suggest that I give up on something I love and clearly still want to fight for despite the pain. These people all have endless stories of how difficult their journey has been but how rewarding the process has been.

What are the circumstances of your pain though? If you've been trying to change someone and they are not making an effort then the only recourse is to stay and be miserable or get the hell out while you're still young enough to get someone worth having.

 

I've been married for over three decades and believe me, there have been some trying times but we've weathered the (infrequent) storms because neither of us are abusive, narcissistic, sociopathic, have overcome things that bother the other by changing what we can and learning acceptance of the things that can't be changed but are not so horrific that we need to flee one another. If one is making the other feel pain, is whittling away at the other's self-worth and is causing a downfall in self-esteem then to counsel to stay in that dysfunctional codependency is not helpful to anybody.

 

People mostly tell others to leave a relationship when they can see that it's hurting the one who is here opening a thread because they've tried everything else to get their partner to change and it ain't happening. To tell someone to stay and fight in a situation that isn't healthy is just codependent dialogue and telling an op what they want to hear.

 

I will offer advice on how to get an Opening Posters partner to see the problem if Its made clear that he/she has never actually sat down with their other half and communicated the problem and that it's so severe that a break up is on the mind of the OP. If he/she has talked and tried to remedy and tried to get the other to see and change and no change is happening then it's time to exit the union because it will only get worse as the Op's resentment and unhappiness increases.

[Sportster2005]

In just about every circumstance, we really only have a few options.

1. Change the situation.

2. Leave the situation.

3. Hate the situation.

4. Learn to love the situation.

 

Taking something complex and trying to distill into trite expressions like "It takes two to tango", should be avoided. There's a difference between trying to explain something succinctly, and oversimplification.

[notalady]

In just about every circumstance, we really only have a few options.

1. Change the situation.

2. Leave the situation.

3. Hate the situation.

4. Learn to love the situation.

 

Taking something complex and trying to distill into trite expressions like "It takes two to tango", should be avoided. There's a difference between trying to explain something succinctly, and oversimplification.

 

Indeed, if you can't change the situation or change how you feel about the situation, then the only option left is to leave.

 

For me, in past relationships I've always tried to work it out before giving up, as most people would. But in hindsight, spent way too long being in a relationship that doesn't work due to fundamental reasons, ie personality conflicts, value differences and character issues. These are things that are deeply ingrained in a person and can't be changed unless they themselves are willing to put in the effort to change, even then, it's extremely hard. You're talking about asking someone to change who they are.

 

On the other hand, if everything has been good over a long period of time and your partner is having a difficult time temporarily due to external factors, and the relationship become affected, the first option is always to communicate and work it out. As long as the partner is self aware, open to communication and pay due attention to the need to the relationship, I believe nothing can't be worked out (where it's a temporary situation).

[ThatwasThen]

On the other hand, if everything has been good over a long period of time and your partner is having a difficult time temporarily due to external factors, and the relationship become affected, the first option is always to communicate and work it out. As long as the partner is self aware, open to communication and pay due attention to the need to the relationship, I believe nothing can't be worked out (where it's a temporary situation).

Indeed! ...

[catfeeder]

When to fight and when to move on...

 

What does 'fight' mean in this instance, and who would you be fighting?

 

Are you speaking about a partner or an adversary?

 

IMO, a partner is on the same side even when we disagree, while an adversary 'fights' against the partnership. A partner is willing to work with me, while an adversary works against me.

 

I'm not interested in fighting an adversary, so that would answer this question for me. If my partner and I are on the same side, we're both invested in working together even when it's difficult. However, if my partner becomes my adversary, then we're no longer partners, we're something else. I can walk away from that.

[Hugwolf]

"....still want to fight for despite the pain."Speaking of basis, the time to think is BEFORE one acts. An awful lot of people don't look at (or worse, don't want to look at) the "other" and the red flags which are always there.

 

Sometimes those red flags aren't visible early on, but rather after emotional bonding has started. I don't know how to let go of someone at that point just because they've shared or acted out on something from their past that looks like bad news. However, in my situation I definitely should be left four months ago when she said our relationship was not a priority anymore. That is certainly not something you say to someone you do not want to lose.

 

Sometimes I wonder how much of my past to share with a partner. I've worked hard to learn from my mistakes and become more aware, but where do you draw the line at what you share? Could these things not be seen as red flags by my partner, even if there's some explanation of the lesson that was learned from them? I've pondered this a lot and figured that certain things should just be left in the past.

 

What are the circumstances of your pain though? If you've been trying to change someone and they are not making an effort then the only recourse is to stay and be miserable or get the hell out while you're still young enough to get someone worth having.

 

I don't want to rehash my story, but that last sentence pretty much sums up where I've been for the past three-to-four months; waiting for her to make a clear effort to work things out. We still acted like a couple when it was convenient for her but she clearly didn't want to put in the same level of effort as I to work through it. I began to accept that yesterday, and today her and I had a long talk and she told me that she realized for the past four months she had been grieving the loss of the relationship rather than trying to make it work.... She just didn't tell me and didn't seem entirely aware of it herself.

 

Indeed, if you can't change the situation or change how you feel about the situation, then the only option left is to leave.

 

For me, in past relationships I've always tried to work it out before giving up, as most people would. But in hindsight, spent way too long being in a relationship that doesn't work due to fundamental reasons, ie personality conflicts, value differences and character issues. These are things that are deeply ingrained in a person and can't be changed unless they themselves are willing to put in the effort to change, even then, it's extremely hard. You're talking about asking someone to change who they are.

 

On the other hand, if everything has been good over a long period of time and your partner is having a difficult time temporarily due to external factors, and the relationship become affected, the first option is always to communicate and work it out. As long as the partner is self aware, open to communication and pay due attention to the need to the relationship, I believe nothing can't be worked out (where it's a temporary situation).

 

A lot of what you said here did happen in this relationship. I worked hard to make changes in our home and in myself to improve conditions. Before we moved in, things we pretty good except that we did need better skills communicating without one or both of us becoming defensive. She made some changes too, but communicated very little with me what was going on in her head. Some of the issues that started the downward spiral were in fact mostly temporary health issues which is one of the reasons I gave her so much time and space. After this I think I will be weary of anyone who tells me that our relationship is not a priority until other issues are sorted out, however.

 

What does 'fight' mean in this instance, and who would you be fighting?

 

Are you speaking about a partner or an adversary?

 

IMO, a partner is on the same side even when we disagree, while an adversary 'fights' against the partnership. A partner is willing to work with me, while an adversary works against me.

 

I'm not interested in fighting an adversary, so that would answer this question for me. If my partner and I are on the same side, we're both invested in working together even when it's difficult. However, if my partner becomes my adversary, then we're no longer partners, we're something else. I can walk away from that.

 

By fight, I meant to push through emotional experiences while giving her space to deal with her personal issues. It was so hard because during those months I felt like she was wallowing in her problems and neglecting to invest energy into our relationship. But it is clear to me now that she had already checked out and was just hanging around for the company.

 

That's really the end of the story. I've done an enormous amount of processing in the past few days with friends, family, and this forum. I'm sad to let her go but I have to accept it because it's happening. I see the value in what I've experienced with her and all that I learned about myself by being with her, but I will also enjoy being free of some of the difficulties that were (I hope) unique to her. No more "fighting" for someone who is not fighting for me too.

[notalady]

 

Sometimes I wonder how much of my past to share with a partner. I've worked hard to learn from my mistakes and become more aware, but where do you draw the line at what you share? Could these things not be seen as red flags by my partner, even if there's some explanation of the lesson that was learned from them? I've pondered this a lot and figured that certain things should just be left in the past.

 

 

I'm of the belief that share as little about your past relationships as possible. Your learnings are yours alone to keep, there is no need to share that with someone you are dating. If you've become wiser and better through your learnings, show that in your actions, not words.

[Hugwolf]

I'm of the belief that share as little about your past relationships as possible. Your learnings are yours alone to keep, there is no need to share that with someone you are dating. If you've become wiser and better through your learnings, show that in your actions, not words.

 

This is my feeling as well, although over the course of my previous relationship I feel like my partner heard just about every story from my past that contained some sort of struggle to overcome. I came to a realization these past few months that made me kind of sad. As much as I would like to be completely open with my partner regarding any unhealed pain from my past in a desire to feel heard and comforted by her, there are some things I need to heal on my own, or with friends or a therapist. With my partner so deeply emotionally involved with me there are some things they simply cannot truly hold a healing space for without sacrificing something from themselves and/or the relationship.