Are people just naive to the idea of emotional affairs? Or do most people know?

[Chon]

Hearing about these recent emotional affairs, I can't help but wonder if people are just really unaware/naive about these new budding friendships or whether most people realise what they are doing deep down.

 

If they knew more about the concept of emotional affairs, would this prevent them from engaging in it? Either by cutting off contact with the new person or at least choosing to break up the existing relationship.

 

So I wonder, has anyone had their ex's explain what happened eventually? Or can provide examples themselves of whether they honestly believed it was just a friendship?

[changeiscoming]

psychological things are at play... I don't think you'll get a valid response but instead an emotional one on a forum board. It would vary don't you think dependent on those physiological factors; environments, feelings and more.

 

You could say the same thing about physical affairs. At that stage people are aware they are crossing the line but still do it or even with an emotional one at some stage someone knows in there being that they've just crossed a line before it even becomes physical. I don't think it would change someone's intentions. Some cases people are ready to go all in and others people say they got caught up when they were really naïve in the sense they didn't do anything about there current situation so they were caught up in something else.

[ParisPaulette]

I think people know exactly what they're doing deep down. If you didn't mean to cheat on your significant other then it's really simple, you don't cheat. That means you don't start doing date-like things or hanging around someone you start to develop feelings for while you're in a relationship with someone else.

 

You do the sane healthy thing of "This looks like it could be trouble, let's ratchet the contact with this person back, wayyyyy back." If you've been toying with the idea of leaving and/or justifying why an affair might be okay, even if it's just deep down to yourself, then yeah you go looking and you create. Or at the very least you do nothing to remove temptation if temptation crosses your path.

 

I know people who will say, "But it just happened," to which my only response will be a sarcastic response calling them out on their hypocrisy and self-deception.

 

People always know when they're doing something bad. Even the most emotionless psychopath does or they wouldn't hide their murders and try to gaslight people into how what they did was okay. So nope, people know.

 

P.S. I have male friends and I'm married. I toe the line, they toe the line, there are boundaries, we don't do date-like things. And they and I include my husband in our activities and vice versa on his female friends. It can be done, it's called having boundaries and enforcing them. Neither of us is willing to lose the other to someone else, so we just don't open that door to begin with. The few who tried ended up with very sore toes from having doors slammed on them so to speak, figuratively.

[SherrySher]

I agree with Paris..at some point whether they admit intention or not, people know exactly what they're doing and the situations they put themselves into what possibilities might arise.

[bluebell05]

If I may ask what are the signs of someone having an emotional affair?

[feministdude]

Well, I'm one of those recent emotional affairs. I can tell you positively that my wife does not consciously realize what she's doing, but that she also knows its wrong. I can tell, because she keeps asking "is this ok?" I mean, she joked that this guy would be her "back up husband" if something happened to me, so she knows there's something more than friendship. She's hiding things, not telling me the whole story, and when she does, such as going back to his place late at night for a few hours to "sober up," she makes excuses.

 

She keeps telling me that getting to know this person is making her even more glad to have me, that she has nothing in common with him and sees he's kind of a douche, that I'm special because I'm smart and sexy and "alpha" but not a douche, and that we have this intense emotional bond, great communication, same worldview and interests, great sex, etc. I'm "the most important thing in her life." She said that she can text and go out with him and flirt and he makes her feel like a "10" and it's harmelss, and then I supposedly get the benefits when she comes home to me. Sorry, but no thanks - that's a huge turn-off.

 

My wife is the best person I've ever known. She's a genius. She's normally very ethical and holds herself and her friends to high standards. I have always trusted her unquestionably. She's had guy friends that she's slept over at their places and I would never even think to question it. My hot wife chose ME.

 

But smart people can rationalize anything. And though it's obvious her subconscious knows it's wrong, her conscious will not accept that there's a problem. I'm being unreasonable. I don't know how, barring them having intercourse, I'm going to be able to convince her conscious mind that there's a problem with him disregarding her boundaries, taking her back to his place late at night, buying her drinks after she says "no." Seems unambiguous to me now.

 

It's clear to me now that she must be unhappy. She's recently changed her sense of style, she's consciously changing her work/life balance (more work) her work goals (more ambitious.) Life can too easily fall into a rut. This guy makes her feel like I used to when we were 20.

 

But until the physical contact escalates to genital contact, there's no clear line in an "emotional affair."

[greta96]

People know what emotional affairs are, and know they are not right. They, however, will come up with all sorts of excuses to justify staying in them as long as possible, under the guise of "friendship".

 

At the beginning, one of the parties involved in an emotional affair may not realize what's happening, and they may be genuinely hoping to strike a friendship with the other. When they realize that the other party is not exactly looking for just a platonic friendship, they either back off (if they have solid moral values) or they will let themselves linger in the emotional affair, because it feels good and relatively safe, and will start justifying it in any way they can.

 

I have been on both sides of an emotional affair. In one instance, I was taken, he was taken, but I genuinely wanted to be friends with him because I liked him as a person. I let a lot of stuff go just because I hoped he'd see things my way eventually, but when it became painfully obvious he wanted to cheat on his girlfriend with me, I gave up on the notion of making him a friend and put some serious distance between us until he no longer spoke with me.

 

Back when I was younger, the same thing happened, but I chose to ignore the fact that he was looking to cheat on his girlfriend (I was single). I persisted with the "friendship" and it did turn into an emotional affair, and it could have ended in a physical one as well, had I not felt bad about things. Eventually I ended that too, but much later than I should have, and only because there was no way to keep it going without sex happening. Yes, I do know I was in the wrong.

 

Some people will just have a full blown emotional affair, some emotional affairs will become full blown affairs...anything can happen. But nobody is " naïve" enough not to know what's going on.

[Unreasonable]

Well, back in the day, these were called "affairs of the heart." They're nothing new. However, they're far more insidious and easy now. Before you might be writing letters and making phone calls, both of which were pretty easy to catch (you used to get phone logs mailed to you) so they were not as prevalent. Today, pshh. Texts can delete themselves.

 

I don't think many people are ignorant that they exist. Even if they've never heard the term "emotional affair," the behavior behind it is pretty self-evidently wrong. If it wasn't, why hide it?

 

What I DON'T think many people realize is how hurtful they are. The idea that they're "not as bad" as physical affairs. They are very, very painful, and what is so insidious about them, is there's no way to tell if they're over, even if you're fairly vigilant.

[1a1a]

I have to disagree. I didn't have a term for mine until long after it had ended. Technically I wasn't cheating (I would have never crossed the line into physical even though it was offered). I didn't think until after that the very fact of my shifting interest from my main partner to someone else is effective betrayal. (Crushing on people isn't, that's kind of involuntary, but acting on those and seeking that person out, instead of looking at what's gone wrong with the established relationship is a bad idea if you want the relationship to survive).

[Unreasonable]

Well, I'm one of those recent emotional affairs. I can tell you positively that my wife does not consciously realize what she's doing, but that she also knows its wrong. I can tell, because she keeps asking "is this ok?" I mean, she joked that this guy would be her "back up husband" if something happened to me, so she knows there's something more than friendship. She's hiding things, not telling me the whole story, and when she does, such as going back to his place late at night for a few hours to "sober up," she makes excuses.

 

She keeps telling me that getting to know this person is making her even more glad to have me, that she has nothing in common with him and sees he's kind of a douche, that I'm special because I'm smart and sexy and "alpha" but not a douche, and that we have this intense emotional bond, great communication, same worldview and interests, great sex, etc. I'm "the most important thing in her life." She said that she can text and go out with him and flirt and he makes her feel like a "10" and it's harmelss, and then I supposedly get the benefits when she comes home to me. Sorry, but no thanks - that's a huge turn-off.

 

My wife is the best person I've ever known. She's a genius. She's normally very ethical and holds herself and her friends to high standards. I have always trusted her unquestionably. She's had guy friends that she's slept over at their places and I would never even think to question it. My hot wife chose ME.

 

But smart people can rationalize anything. And though it's obvious her subconscious knows it's wrong, her conscious will not accept that there's a problem. I'm being unreasonable. I don't know how, barring them having intercourse, I'm going to be able to convince her conscious mind that there's a problem with him disregarding her boundaries, taking her back to his place late at night, buying her drinks after she says "no." Seems unambiguous to me now.

 

It's clear to me now that she must be unhappy. She's recently changed her sense of style, she's consciously changing her work/life balance (more work) her work goals (more ambitious.) Life can too easily fall into a rut. This guy makes her feel like I used to when we were 20.

 

But until the physical contact escalates to genital contact, there's no clear line in an "emotional affair."

No clear line? What. The. Hell. There are clear lines and she's crossed every single one of them. Google emotional affairs. While they might not agree down to the letter, there are very common threads. Most importantly, if you are hiding romantic interaction (doesn't have to be physical) is an emotional affair. Does she tell you everything they talk about? Would she show you every thing she texts?

 

Back up husband? That's not a joke man, she's telling the truth, while laughing at you. They are both waiting in the wings for eachother, and all this dress up stuff/style change is just setting things up for the "real thing," if it's not happening already. He's taking her to his place late at night? Dude. Lines crossed. CLEAR LINES CROSSED.

 

You're job right now is not to convince her she's wrong. She already knows that. Your job is to put your foot down and be ready to walk away.

[Wiseman2]

Agree. It's a slippery slope and particularly when the confiding about "relationship problems" begins. They are in denial and the usual excuse to the partner is "just friends, just coworkers, etc."

..at some point whether they admit intention or not, people know exactly what they're doing and the situations they put themselves into what possibilities might arise.

[feministdude]

No clear line? What. The. Hell. There are clear lines and she's crossed every single one of them. Google emotional affairs. While they might not agree down to the letter, there are very common threads. Most importantly, if you are hiding romantic interaction (doesn't have to be physical) is an emotional affair. Does she tell you everything they talk about? Would she show you every thing she texts?

 

Back up husband? That's not a joke man, she's telling the truth, while laughing at you. They are both waiting in the wings for eachother, and all this dress up stuff/style change is just setting things up for the "real thing," if it's not happening already. He's taking her to his place late at night? Dude. Lines crossed. CLEAR LINES CROSSED.

 

You're job right now is not to convince her she's wrong. She already knows that. Your job is to put your foot down and be ready to walk away.

 

When I type this stuff out and read it, it hits me like a brick: it's totally inappropriate. Then I talk to her and she says it's nothing and I'm blowing it out of proportion. Why do I need to keep hearing this? I just can't believe she would do anything inappropriate like this.

 

I always considered myself strong for completely trusting her, not seeing other guys as competition. "Putting my foot down" seemed like weak, insecure behavior. Frankly, won't that weak stand play into his narrative?

 

When I got her to admit that she went back to his place late at night to "sober up" AFTER I made it explicitly clear that was unacceptable to me, it lit me on fire. I haven't really slept in two nights. I don't think she did anything sexual, but how would I know if she's lying about what DID happen? If she's overstepping these bounds, how can I trust her?

 

That's what's so damaging about this "innocent" kind of situation.

[DancingFool]

When I type this stuff out and read it, it hits me like a brick: it's totally inappropriate. Then I talk to her and she says it's nothing and I'm blowing it out of proportion. Why do I need to keep hearing this? I just can't believe she would do anything inappropriate like this.

 

I always considered myself strong for completely trusting her, not seeing other guys as competition. "Putting my foot down" seemed like weak, insecure behavior. Frankly, won't that weak stand play into his narrative?

 

When I got her to admit that she went back to his place late at night to "sober up" AFTER I made it explicitly clear that was unacceptable to me, it lit me on fire. I haven't really slept in two nights. I don't think she did anything sexual, but how would I know if she's lying about what DID happen? If she's overstepping these bounds, how can I trust her?

 

That's what's so damaging about this "innocent" kind of situation.

 

Strong people have strong clear boundaries between right and wrong and will enforce them. Weak people don't have boundaries or have weak boundaries that they allow others to push and shift. Think on that.

 

Your wife is acting like she is single and her behavior is completely inappropriate and disrespectful to you and her marriage.

 

Getting drunk with a guy friend and crashing at his place when you are single, perfectly fine. When you are in a relationship, you just don't do that. Sure, you can go out and socialize with your guy friend but you keep boundaries and respect your relationship. Which means you don't get wasted and crash at the guy friend's place. I mean let's say that she drank more than she realized by accident, she should be calling you to pick her up because she is MARRIED and not going home with the guy.

 

The other sad fact is that she knows it. However, she chooses to do what she does because she wants to. The fact that she is changing her style/life/habits is a huge red flag that your marriage is on the rocks and her mind is exiting actively. The fact that she is trying to tell you that you are somehow in the wrong to be angry about her behavior means that she thinks you are a pushover. She is blowing smoke in your face and you are turning the other cheek.

 

Sorry, but I think it's long past due for you to sit her down and have a very serious conversation about boundaries and her behavior and you do need to tell her straight up that you've had enough of her bs. Either she shapes up or you are going ship her out and file for divorce and actually be ready to carry it out.

[gebaird]

I had never heard the term "emotional affair" until I read about it in a book and realized, several years ago, that I was in the middle of one and ended it. I justified it because we were never going to meet, it was just "words." But affairs don't start in bedrooms, and even if they never escalate to that point, imagine how your significant other would feel about those seemingly harmless words that are being shared with someone else! Not so harmless when the secret gets out ...

 

I knew what I was doing was wrong, but there was almost a pathological compulsion. Thank God I woke up before it was too late.

[feministdude]

The fact that she is changing her style/life/habits is a huge red flag that your marriage is on the rocks and her mind is exiting actively. The fact that she is trying to tell you that you are somehow in the wrong to be angry about her behavior means that she thinks you are a pushover. She is blowing smoke in your face and you are turning the other cheek.

 

 

I'm going to stop making this thread about me, but help me one more time:

 

I agree these are huge red flags. But if she's unahappy, why doesn't she just tell me so we can work on making her happier. I want for her to be happy. Instead, she's being MORE affectionate, we're having more sex, and she's telling me how awesome I am and how great our relationship is. Meanwhile, this wall has gone up where she's hiding things from me, she's asking for more space, and we're not talking about emotional/inimate things like we used to. And then she's going out and having blatantly romantic needs met through this other man who doesn't respect her boundaries.

 

Why not just be honest with me? I can't get this....

[DancingFool]

I'm going to stop making this thread about me, but help me one more time:

 

I agree these are huge red flags. But if she's unahappy, why doesn't she just tell me so we can work on making her happier. I want for her to be happy. Instead, she's being MORE affectionate, we're having more sex, and she's telling me how awesome I am and how great our relationship is. Meanwhile, this wall has gone up where she's hiding things from me, she's asking for more space, and we're not talking about emotional/inimate things like we used to. And then she's going out and having blatantly romantic needs met through this other man who doesn't respect her boundaries.

 

Why not just be honest with me? I can't get this....

 

Going to copy and respond in your thread so we don't hijack this one.

[gebaird]

Why not just be honest with me? I can't get this....

 

It's probably not a black & white thing in her mind. Right now she can have her cake and eat it too, so what's motivating her to make a choice? She gets the emotional connection she wants from the other guy, and the physical from you. Perfect solution, right? For her, anyway ... clearly you aren't okay with the situation, and I'd be concerned if you were. The question is, what to do about it. Seems like talking to her isn't working, so you've got to get her attention somehow. Make her choose between him and you. Go to counseling if she'll go, walk away if she won't.

[Chon]

Sometimes I think back on my brother's foolish mistake of cheating under the influence of alcohol. That incident alone made him give up alcohol for at least 18 months after he confessed to his ex.

 

I asked him whether he was aware of what he was doing. He replied that he was aware, but at the same time, did not seem to care about the repercussions. It doesn't excuse his behaviour, but it made me realise how simple it is for people to put themselves in these bad situations.

 

It makes me think that perhaps, in a similar sense, people get so caught up in the whirlwind of emotions, that they switch off some part of themselves that understands that these decisions would completely destroy the other person if they knew.

 

At least this is my own theory. I don't know whether it holds any water, or whether I'm just justifying people's sudden lack of compassion for the other person. What do people think?

[Hermes]

Chon. People can be very unpredictable. WE never, ever know all of what goes on in someone else's mind, even if that person is a spouse/partner.

 

 

 

Excerpt:

 

Another is looking forward to the specialness of contact with this other person more than the daily-ness of being with your partner. It turns out that feeling understood on the level of the soul is far more sexy than sex itself. Restoring such excitement to the marriage is the best recourse for those who want to go on enjoying the privilege of having a partner throughout life.

 

[Wiseman2]

Agree. People get "caught up in the moment". The trick is to not create circumstances for those "moments".

It makes me think that perhaps, in a similar sense, people get so caught up in the whirlwind of emotions, that they switch off some part of themselves that understands that these decisions would completely destroy the other person if they knew.

[Hermes]

Difficulty is, Wiseman, that often the circumstances create themselves. Workplaces, for example. What starts as a perfectly ordinary conversation about the chaotic state of the company/the world/the country/society moves into an upper sphere, where without even thinking of it, they start talking about how the recession (for example) has affected the household, bla bla bla, and so on and so forth. "And when I get home in the evenings the house is chaotic, and the kids are running wild, and such and such an appliance has broken down and....." The other party: "Oh you poor thing. How stressful for you".....

 

Anyhow:

 

"Vaughan believes that secrecy is primarily what distinguishes a close friendship from an emotional affair.

 

 

For example, you’ve crossed the line if you are:

 

Keeping the details of the relationship secret from your husband or wife

Saying and doing things with your “friend” that you wouldn’t do if your partner were present

Sharing things with the other person that you don’t share with your partner

Making an effort to spend lots of time with your “friend”"

 

From:

 

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