JJ's Diary of Dating

[notalady]

Work girl sounds promising! 25 is not that big an age difference? Are you not 30 or something?

[John John]

Work girl sounds promising! 25 is not that big an age difference? Are you not 30 or something?

 

I'm 32. 25 nowadays to me is pretty "young" in the LTR thing, but this is me being open and just going with it! We will see!

[WithLove]

The last guy I dated was also 32. I was worried because at 26, 32 was my age limit. I worried that he wanted to get married and start a family right away and that he'd have settled in with anyone. I chose not to believe that and trust that he liked me for me. I should have listened to my intuition, though. He originally told me he was okay with not having kids and that marriage wasn't on the table for him at that time. 4 months later, he told me he lied, that dying alone with no spouse or family was his worst fear, and that he lied because he really liked me and didn't want to ruin it so soon. I'm like... "But on your profile you said you didn't want these things!!" Is that a norm? Should I perhaps lower my age limit? I have this feeling that by the time men hit 30, they are starting to want kids and stuff. And that they want it to happen sooner than later and will say anything to be able to land a date.

[notalady]

I think a larger proportion of men will think seriously of marriage and children after 30, but I don't know many who are in a big hurry to do so. Certainly the men I know anyway. I think late 30s approaching 40 is when the "panic" sets in for a lot of men.

 

But the "will say anything to land a date" to me is a character issue, ie willing to lie or say/do whatever to get what you want. I think if someone lied about something that big, I wouldn't trust them on anything else and would likely not keep dating them, I don't think that has anything to do with their age and their relationship goals.

[notalady]

I'm 32. 25 nowadays to me is pretty "young" in the LTR thing, but this is me being open and just going with it! We will see!

 

It is a bit "young" but not that young. I know a number of couples with that type of age difference and have no issue in terms of maturity etc. it's kinda of down to the individuals of course. In fact it's probably perfect age difference, like if you want to get married and start a family in a few years, she'd be late 20s.

 

Anyway good on you for going with the flow.

[WithLove]

 

But the "will say anything to land a date" to me is a character issue, ie willing to lie or say/do whatever to get what you want. I think if someone lied about something that big, I wouldn't trust them on anything else and would likely not keep dating them, I don't think that has anything to do with their age and their relationship goals.

 

That's a big reason why were no longer together.

[notalady]

That's a big reason why were no longer together.

 

Indeed

[faraday]

The last guy I dated was also 32. I was worried because at 26, 32 was my age limit. I worried that he wanted to get married and start a family right away and that he'd have settled in with anyone. I chose not to believe that and trust that he liked me for me. I should have listened to my intuition, though. He originally told me he was okay with not having kids and that marriage wasn't on the table for him at that time. 4 months later, he told me he lied, that dying alone with no spouse or family was his worst fear, and that he lied because he really liked me and didn't want to ruin it so soon. I'm like... "But on your profile you said you didn't want these things!!" Is that a norm? Should I perhaps lower my age limit? I have this feeling that by the time men hit 30, they are starting to want kids and stuff. And that they want it to happen sooner than later and will say anything to be able to land a date.

 

Lol, you make people over 30 sound like these desperate love starved fools that can't land dates.

 

Women tend to be more in a hurry from 30-40 to settle down because of the whole egg thing...but guys don't tend to have that fear.

 

Jay should have probably dated someone 25 (and he did date a few right before he met me) because he wanted to date longer, have a real (year or two) engagement, and be married a few years longer before trying for kids. But my eggs are getting wonky He sped things up more than he would have liked because he wanted me, and he wants babies with me.

 

Some guys (at any age, not just over 30) really really want to get married and have kids...but don't try to lock women down after a few months. That's not the sign of a healthy man (or woman for that matter).

[WithLove]

I didn't mean for it to sound that way. I just meant that for me, I would likely not be ready for marriage to someone until we had been dating for years, and for men that have hit 30 or so, they may not want to wait that log.

[IAmFCA]

Yeah, I think that's why. Well, it's out of my control. It's mostly based on luck. Nothing I can do about luck.

 

There is a lot we do to make our own luck.

[notalady]

I didn't mean for it to sound that way. I just meant that for me, I would likely not be ready for marriage to someone until we had been dating for years, and for men that have hit 30 or so, they may not want to wait that log.

 

I think your current age limit of 32 is still pretty reasonable. Many are happy to date for 3-5 years even at 32, unless they are really eager to get married and have kids. The 30, 31 year old guys I know are in no hurry to find someone let alone get married.

 

Anyway it's something that can be discussed if you meet them right? Usually goals can be clarified in the first few dates.

[IAmFCA]

Agreed on all fronts. That's why when an attractive woman is friendly but doesn't quite give off vibes that lead me to believe she's single, I won't bother.

 

And my schedule is similar. Just need to fix that. Or eventually go back to online dating...

 

Hmm.

 

I wonder how attractive women get their boyfriends.

[notalady]

Hmm.

 

I wonder how attractive women get their boyfriends.

 

Maybe they gave off the vibe? Haha

[mylolita]

Hey John John,

 

We've never spoken before but I've just stumbled across your journal and scan read the whole thing.

 

Basically, you have my sympathy. I'm not victimising you, but I do feel for you.

 

I will add one thing which may be controversial and perceived as negative (please, its not, just an observation), but I think people who online date, 90% of them anyway, seem a little... strange. You might think, how can I say this? Firstly, I have the most limited experience ever because I've NEVER online dated. BUT! Alllllll my friends have, and I have been through the crazy stories, heard about the mad first dates and the general weirdo's. I feel like I've lived it through their frustration!

 

As Faraday said - her's ended in marriage, which is surely the outcome most people dream of when they sign up to these things, but this is rare in my opinion.

 

For starters, we're humans and we're animals at the end of the day, and we aren't evolved to meet people over a screen. Everything we use to make a judgement, form attraction and opinions is naturally done face to face. We subconsciously read the most minor body language without even picking up on it ourselves. This is all compromised and inhibited online. Not to mention actual chemical, pheromone attraction - there is an underground science behind attraction we don't even pick up on that you can't get online.

 

Okay, so you meet them and all this happens and it goes well, that's fine, but my second impression is you have to sieve through a hell of a lot of nothing which is not good for you. It's not good for you mentally and physically, it must be exhausting, let alone time consuming. At least if you're in a club, a bar, a coffee shop, the library - where ever - you can almost instantly know if you're:

 

a) attracted to that person

b) wanting to go ahead with a date and

c) if they do - instantly! No time wasted!

 

I know it's far more nerve wracking but in my opinion, sometimes old fashioned is better. Dating needs to go back to basics.

 

You may also ask, what qualifies me to make this assumption if I have never dipped my toe in online dating? Well, I am an example of doing it without going online (ha - in all aspects!) and things working out. I am 26 years old, I have been with my partner D for nearly 9 years and out of that we have been happily married for 2. No online dating, not ever!

 

That's just my ten penny into this discussion. If I were to give you advice, I'd say get back into it au natural! Ditch the online profiles and give it a few months going out with friends to clubs, reading by yourself in libraries, getting coffee, going shopping - all those regular activities are girl pick up potentials - and just try it out. If it fails, you can always fall back into online.

 

You speak of luck, but sometimes you have to make your own.

 

I really wish you all the best!

 

Lo x

[notalady]

Hey John John,

 

We've never spoken before but I've just stumbled across your journal and scan read the whole thing.

 

Basically, you have my sympathy. I'm not victimising you, but I do feel for you.

 

I will add one thing which may be controversial and perceived as negative (please, its not, just an observation), but I think people who online date, 90% of them anyway, seem a little... strange. You might think, how can I say this? Firstly, I have the most limited experience ever because I've NEVER online dated. BUT! Alllllll my friends have, and I have been through the crazy stories, heard about the mad first dates and the general weirdo's. I feel like I've lived it through their frustration!

 

As Faraday said - her's ended in marriage, which is surely the outcome most people dream of when they sign up to these things, but this is rare in my opinion.

 

For starters, we're humans and we're animals at the end of the day, and we aren't evolved to meet people over a screen. Everything we use to make a judgement, form attraction and opinions is naturally done face to face. We subconsciously read the most minor body language without even picking up on it ourselves. This is all compromised and inhibited online. Not to mention actual chemical, pheromone attraction - there is an underground science behind attraction we don't even pick up on that you can't get online.

 

Okay, so you meet them and all this happens and it goes well, that's fine, but my second impression is you have to sieve through a hell of a lot of nothing which is not good for you. It's not good for you mentally and physically, it must be exhausting, let alone time consuming. At least if you're in a club, a bar, a coffee shop, the library - where ever - you can almost instantly know if you're:

 

a) attracted to that person

b) wanting to go ahead with a date and

c) if they do - instantly! No time wasted!

 

I know it's far more nerve wracking but in my opinion, sometimes old fashioned is better. Dating needs to go back to basics.

 

You may also ask, what qualifies me to make this assumption if I have never dipped my toe in online dating? Well, I am an example of doing it without going online (ha - in all aspects!) and things working out. I am 26 years old, I have been with my partner D for nearly 9 years and out of that we have been happily married for 2. No online dating, not ever!

 

That's just my ten penny into this discussion. If I were to give you advice, I'd say get back into it au natural! Ditch the online profiles and give it a few months going out with friends to clubs, reading by yourself in libraries, getting coffee, going shopping - all those regular activities are girl pick up potentials - and just try it out. If it fails, you can always fall back into online.

 

You speak of luck, but sometimes you have to make your own.

 

I really wish you all the best!

 

Lo x

 

Just some thoughts on this, meeting people in real life sounds easy enough but it's not that easy once you finished school, and settled into your usual social circle. It'd be very lucky to meet someone in those regular places you mention like library and coffee shops etc. Meeting people in clubs (where it's all dark and under the influence of alcohol) is also not the best place of all. Social events like meetup groups where you get to interact with others are good places to meet people in real life. Friends gatherings and parties also a good place. One of my guy friends host a social group (not for dating purposes) and we have bi-monthly gatherings where lots of new people attend. He met his ex and current girlfriend there. So events like that is a great idea.

 

I always thought it's a good idea to not cut off any opportunities to meet people, so that includes both online and offline.

 

Definitely online dating take a lot of sieving through messages (or for guys, doing the messaging), and there are weird people out there. But honestly, guys I've dated that I met in real life were just as weird (and/or dysfunctional) as the ones I dated from online. On the other hand I know at least 4 couples in real life who met online and now happily married, I met my boyfriend and one of my LTR ex online. Definitely you need to take breaks if you feel like it's wearing on you, but I think that's the same with any kind of dating, it's just the channel where you first meet is different is all.

[LightWave93]

I must say, the dating culture in the US is fascinating. I have never heard nor seen anyone just get a number like John John has. Is there just a general openness to this sort of thing in the US?

 

I cannot even fathom getting a girl's number whilst volunteering.

[John John]

Lol, you make people over 30 sound like these desperate love starved fools that can't land dates.

 

Women tend to be more in a hurry from 30-40 to settle down because of the whole egg thing...but guys don't tend to have that fear.

 

Jay should have probably dated someone 25 (and he did date a few right before he met me) because he wanted to date longer, have a real (year or two) engagement, and be married a few years longer before trying for kids. But my eggs are getting wonky He sped things up more than he would have liked because he wanted me, and he wants babies with me.

 

Some guys (at any age, not just over 30) really really want to get married and have kids...but don't try to lock women down after a few months. That's not the sign of a healthy man (or woman for that matter).

 

Totally agree. Yeah, I want marriage and to (eventually) start a family...but I think that you need to date someone for at least a year, depending on peoples' maturity levels, personalities, age, etc. My uncle always says "You should go through one annual cycle, holidays, families, etc. before deciding to marry someone." Obviously, if you meet the right person and it all just really clicks, you can get engaged sooner than that. But I feel like about a year is a good general ballpark estimate.

 

 

I must say, the dating culture in the US is fascinating. I have never heard nor seen anyone just get a number like John John has. Is there just a general openness to this sort of thing in the US?

 

I cannot even fathom getting a girl's number whilst volunteering.

 

lol really man? When I was in the UK for 6 weeks last year, it seemed almost exactly like the US to me. You just have to know how to read a woman and go with the flow. This girl just struck up a conversation with me, and she seemed to keep looking at me, sorta following me around...the clincher was when she sat down next to me and put on lip gloss lol (in my experience, towards the end of a date, if she's putting on lip gloss/chapstick/lipstick, that's a green light to kiss her).

 

If only you were closer. I'd take you under my wing and show you the ways lol. I may have internal drama, but I still do what I do well 8)

[John John]

Hey John John,

 

We've never spoken before but I've just stumbled across your journal and scan read the whole thing.

 

Basically, you have my sympathy. I'm not victimising you, but I do feel for you.

 

I will add one thing which may be controversial and perceived as negative (please, its not, just an observation), but I think people who online date, 90% of them anyway, seem a little... strange. You might think, how can I say this? Firstly, I have the most limited experience ever because I've NEVER online dated. BUT! Alllllll my friends have, and I have been through the crazy stories, heard about the mad first dates and the general weirdo's. I feel like I've lived it through their frustration!

 

As Faraday said - her's ended in marriage, which is surely the outcome most people dream of when they sign up to these things, but this is rare in my opinion.

 

For starters, we're humans and we're animals at the end of the day, and we aren't evolved to meet people over a screen. Everything we use to make a judgement, form attraction and opinions is naturally done face to face. We subconsciously read the most minor body language without even picking up on it ourselves. This is all compromised and inhibited online. Not to mention actual chemical, pheromone attraction - there is an underground science behind attraction we don't even pick up on that you can't get online.

 

Okay, so you meet them and all this happens and it goes well, that's fine, but my second impression is you have to sieve through a hell of a lot of nothing which is not good for you. It's not good for you mentally and physically, it must be exhausting, let alone time consuming. At least if you're in a club, a bar, a coffee shop, the library - where ever - you can almost instantly know if you're:

 

a) attracted to that person

b) wanting to go ahead with a date and

c) if they do - instantly! No time wasted!

 

I know it's far more nerve wracking but in my opinion, sometimes old fashioned is better. Dating needs to go back to basics.

 

You may also ask, what qualifies me to make this assumption if I have never dipped my toe in online dating? Well, I am an example of doing it without going online (ha - in all aspects!) and things working out. I am 26 years old, I have been with my partner D for nearly 9 years and out of that we have been happily married for 2. No online dating, not ever!

 

That's just my ten penny into this discussion. If I were to give you advice, I'd say get back into it au natural! Ditch the online profiles and give it a few months going out with friends to clubs, reading by yourself in libraries, getting coffee, going shopping - all those regular activities are girl pick up potentials - and just try it out. If it fails, you can always fall back into online.

 

You speak of luck, but sometimes you have to make your own.

 

I really wish you all the best!

 

Lo x

 

 

Hey there, thanks very much for all that you said Yes - I am trying to get back into dating in the real world! And it's funny, I have picked up girls in the past doing all of those activities. But lately it had seemed like all the ones I was hitting on in real life had boyfriends. So I got a bit discouraged, but yesterday's success (at least in getting a number and setting up a date) was cool. I will keep my eHarmony profile (it's only $10 a month - why not I suppose), but will be putting it on the back burner.

[WithLove]

Really? The lipgloss rule lol. If I want to get kissed, I leave it off... I can't imagine a man wanting all that crap on his lips.

[John John]

Really? The lipgloss rule lol. If I want to get kissed, I leave it off... I can't imagine a man wanting all that crap on his lips.

 

To me, in my experience, when a woman does that towards the end of the date, she's "priming" her lips to be kissed. I was only ever wrong about this once...but we didn't have great chemistry and I was very newly out of the 5 year breakup and was still relearning all of this hehe

[LightWave93]

lol really man? When I was in the UK for 6 weeks last year, it seemed almost exactly like the US to me. You just have to know how to read a woman and go with the flow. This girl just struck up a conversation with me, and she seemed to keep looking at me, sorta following me around...the clincher was when she sat down next to me and put on lip gloss lol (in my experience, towards the end of a date, if she's putting on lip gloss/chapstick/lipstick, that's a green light to kiss her).

 

If only you were closer. I'd take you under my wing and show you the ways lol. I may have internal drama, but I still do what I do well 8)

 

Maybe I'm not seeing the opportunities, but when people talk about meeting girls in coffee shops, supermarket, events etc it quite literally blows my mind how it is even possible. As I said, I've never witnessed it happening.

Well, if I were in the scenario you were in (approached for conversation, looking at you, following etc), it'd be pretty damn obvious. Never happened though. Must be your smile.

 

I'm only a few...thousand...miles away!

[WithLove]

John John, I do the lip thing at the beginning of a date. That way, if I want to get kissed at the end, it's pretty much worn off by then and I don't have to worry about him getting a ton of it in his lips. I can only imagine it's probably gross or weird for him.

 

I think more practical than most, I guess.

[faraday]

Hey John John,

 

We've never spoken before but I've just stumbled across your journal and scan read the whole thing.

 

Basically, you have my sympathy. I'm not victimising you, but I do feel for you.

 

I will add one thing which may be controversial and perceived as negative (please, its not, just an observation), but I think people who online date, 90% of them anyway, seem a little... strange. You might think, how can I say this? Firstly, I have the most limited experience ever because I've NEVER online dated. BUT! Alllllll my friends have, and I have been through the crazy stories, heard about the mad first dates and the general weirdo's. I feel like I've lived it through their frustration!

 

As Faraday said - her's ended in marriage, which is surely the outcome most people dream of when they sign up to these things, but this is rare in my opinion.

 

For starters, we're humans and we're animals at the end of the day, and we aren't evolved to meet people over a screen. Everything we use to make a judgement, form attraction and opinions is naturally done face to face. We subconsciously read the most minor body language without even picking up on it ourselves. This is all compromised and inhibited online. Not to mention actual chemical, pheromone attraction - there is an underground science behind attraction we don't even pick up on that you can't get online.

 

Okay, so you meet them and all this happens and it goes well, that's fine, but my second impression is you have to sieve through a hell of a lot of nothing which is not good for you. It's not good for you mentally and physically, it must be exhausting, let alone time consuming. At least if you're in a club, a bar, a coffee shop, the library - where ever - you can almost instantly know if you're:

 

a) attracted to that person

b) wanting to go ahead with a date and

c) if they do - instantly! No time wasted!

 

I know it's far more nerve wracking but in my opinion, sometimes old fashioned is better. Dating needs to go back to basics.

 

You may also ask, what qualifies me to make this assumption if I have never dipped my toe in online dating? Well, I am an example of doing it without going online (ha - in all aspects!) and things working out. I am 26 years old, I have been with my partner D for nearly 9 years and out of that we have been happily married for 2. No online dating, not ever!

 

That's just my ten penny into this discussion. If I were to give you advice, I'd say get back into it au natural! Ditch the online profiles and give it a few months going out with friends to clubs, reading by yourself in libraries, getting coffee, going shopping - all those regular activities are girl pick up potentials - and just try it out. If it fails, you can always fall back into online.

 

You speak of luck, but sometimes you have to make your own.

 

I really wish you all the best!

 

Lo x

 

You're lucky you met your hubby so young and that you both knew yourselves well enough to be able to pick a suitable life partner.

 

When I was in my early 20's I had no problems meeting men in real life...I was never single! I had a plethora of men that followed me around like puppies...only back then I was an idiot and didn't think they liked me lol. I thought they were friends. Truly, I was oblivious. And honestly, I was not ready to meet my soul mate that young. I was an idiot. If I had married one of the men I was interested in at 20, I would be divorced right now.

 

After school ended and crappy student jobs...I stopped meeting people in real life. I would I go to meet up groups for men and women, and find the one or two men (in a group of 15) were out of my age range or unsuitable in some way. I would go clubbing and meet men looking for a ONS. I would go to friends bbqs and housewarming parties to find the men there were with their spouses (although there was always that one weirdo single guy...someone's brother that tagged along...no one dates that guy though).

 

Having met many men online and in real life...I can say that there are an equal number of weirdos in both. Online dating is so mainstream now that there's no stigma- so now it's anyone looking to meet new people (instead of the stereotype from the early years where they were too weird to meet someone in real life and HAD to go online).

 

I've totally met some weirdos online...but I've met just as many in rl. I found after some practise, I was able to filter out all of the online weirdos before meeting. Eventually you learn to pick up on subtle language and the way questions are asked...and you can determine the "I live in my mothers basement and she still changes my sheets every week" guys pretty quickly...even if they've learned to hide it well.

 

I looked at online dating...not as a matchmaker that would find me dates, but as an avenue of meeting men I wouldn't normally meet in my everyday life. They were the men that I would meet if my friends had single male friends coming to their parties, they were the men I would meet if we had similar hobbies and met doing one of those (I have very girly hobbies, so meeting men through mutual interests is rather difficult). They were the men I would meet if I didn't always have my daughter in tow everywhere I went. I dreamed of meeting a cute man on a hiking trail...but despite hiking weekly, I never met any (even though almost all men here have "hiking" listed as a hobby in their online profiles...maybe they all meant they liked the theory, who knows? I always found many groups of women hiking).

 

Online dating is just like...going anywhere where you think you might meet someone...except everyone is in your age range, you know if they want kids or not, if they smoke, do drugs, if they have a job...and they're all single (well, unless they're slime balls). It takes a lot of the guesswork out of a random stranger. It's just meeting to see if there's any spark...which is rare in real life...so of course it will be just as elusive with online dating...it's just a hella lot more efficient at adding people to the funnel.

[browneyedgirl36]

Appreciate you at least acknowledging my feelings are my feelings. Maybe you're one of those rare people who fundamentally just doesn't need anyone. I am not one of those people, and never will be.

 

And yes, finding her later in life is bad, very bad, to me. Because it means more years of pain and loneliness while everyone else gets to be happy...and then I have less time with her. But it is what it is, right?

 

 

 

It's not that I'm not doing anything. I've done a ton to "work on myself," and all that stuff. But it's all based on luck. So no point in doing much more.

 

I'm sorry you're feeling this way. I have to say, I applaud you for doing online dating as long as you have. I've never done it, and I don't think I'd even have the stomach to try it, let alone do it for years on end!

 

Your feelings ARE what they are, and they are valid. I totally hear what you're saying, and I remember feeling the exact same way. Add in the fact that women, at least in American culture, are pretty much given an "expiration date" on our attractiveness/desirability, and I thought I was sunk in terms of ever finding a decent, age-appropriate guy. I'll tell you, though, that I have learned that the best things are worth waiting for. I'd rather have ten years with a great guy (if, God forbid, one of us dies in the next ten years) than 40 years with a guy I don't really love and have settled for OR to die having never even had any time with a great guy.

 

Suggestion: Give up the online dating for now. Take a break. Try, for awhile, to not actively search. Give yourself a rest from it for now. After awhile, your feelings of frustration may subside a bit, and you'll be ready to go back to it. Maybe you just need some time away to allow yourself to get some perspective.

 

Hang in there, my friend. Everything you're feeling is totally valid, and very normal.

[John John]

I'm sorry you're feeling this way. I have to say, I applaud you for doing online dating as long as you have. I've never done it, and I don't think I'd even have the stomach to try it, let alone do it for years on end!

 

Your feelings ARE what they are, and they are valid. I totally hear what you're saying, and I remember feeling the exact same way. Add in the fact that women, at least in American culture, are pretty much given an "expiration date" on our attractiveness/desirability, and I thought I was sunk in terms of ever finding a decent, age-appropriate guy. I'll tell you, though, that I have learned that the best things are worth waiting for. I'd rather have ten years with a great guy (if, God forbid, one of us dies in the next ten years) than 40 years with a guy I don't really love and have settled for OR to die having never even had any time with a great guy.

 

Suggestion: Give up the online dating for now. Take a break. Try, for awhile, to not actively search. Give yourself a rest from it for now. After awhile, your feelings of frustration may subside a bit, and you'll be ready to go back to it. Maybe you just need some time away to allow yourself to get some perspective.

 

Hang in there, my friend. Everything you're feeling is totally valid, and very normal.

 

Love ya, B.E.G. Thanks so much. I know you at one point had VERY similar feelings to what I was going through. Your input means a lot to me. And I know what you said is true about waiting as long as it takes. I have to fully embrace that...and know that if and when I find her...it will be awesome