Approaching on the street (or probably not)

[DancingFool]

Who cares about her manager or micromanaging or whatever. The point of you going into the shop often is so she becomes familiar with you. You are not a stranger anymore but a regular in the shop. So next step is easy because when you see each other on the street, now you have to acknowledge, say hello to each other because you kind of know each other. Once you've got that, striking up a conversation beyond just hello is pretty normal and there you have a natural opening to ask for a date and now you are not the creepy stranger accosting her on the street anymore. So if she likes you, you'll get a date.

[itsallgrand]

Yeah, I don't think you need to worry about her manager. You are a customer in their store. This way you can build up a familiarity, like others have said. It's your window.

 

Are you just nervous?

[Zaphod]

Are you just nervous?

 

Well I could be all cocky here and pretend I'm not, but tbh I get nervous whenever I ask women out, always have done, and I think most men (or women) do to a certain extent.

 

However, no, I don't really feel any more nervous with this one than with any others, it's more a case of feeling frustrated due to, as I say, lack of opportunity.

 

Having said that, I'm really going to take on board the advice received here. No, it's not as awkward as I thought talking to her in the shop etc. according to you lot, I guess that's why we write these threads on here, to get confirmation, or a little shove in the right direction or second opinion. So I'm grateful for that. Perhaps I've swung the pendulum too far the other way as far as being sensitive goes that I've paralysed myself with this one, I reckon that's probably the case.

 

So here we go. I'll get some cake and give a little hello, I'll give a little hello on the street, and report back, soon hopefully. Ratchet it up a bit and see what kind of reaction I get.

 

Thanks for informing me that the situation may not be as awkward as I thought, and I'm sure that advice will come in useful to me in the future as well. I am quite good at chatting to women etc. but I've never been a cocky jack the lad with it, like some guys are.

[Jibralta]

However, we still have the problem of the micromanaging boss

 

I doubt the boss will trouble a good customer.

[Zaphod]

I doubt the boss will trouble a good customer.

 

It's not that I think he'll trouble me, it's the woman I like I was worried about, didn't want to get her into trouble in front of her boss (and probably skupper my chances in the process). You know some shops you go in have a really stiff atmosphere? It's one of those.

 

I mean, last year, a nice lady starting working at the off-license near me. Had her number second time I went in, stopped for a ten minute chat each time. Easy really. She was running the shop on her own, sitting there looking bored. This is a completely different story though, almost opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

The off-license girl didn't work out, btw. She flaked on text a week later claiming she was seeing her ex again, but you know, got the number, which is the point.

[Jibralta]

What I meant is, the boss would probably be more permissive towards both of you.

[shiner501]

I think there is nothing wrong with approaching people cold and telling them politely and sincerely that you find them attractive. I've had women do that to me before and it made my day! However, 9/10 will just say thanks and walk on by and will not talk. But some will interact with you. I did that with an attractive lady in Starbucks last week. I was angling to get her number but then noticed her wedding ring! Nothing ventured nothing gained!

[Zaphod]

Little update, although nothing earth-shattering :

 

Last night me and a friend went to the pub. Got chatting randomly to a couple of women, just off the cuff. No problem. Not really hitting on them, but they were attractive.

 

Then today, I went in for cake - I'd been for a run so I figured, you know it being Saturday and all... and they do flapjacks it turns out. That's useful.

 

"Hello" - to the woman. "Hello" back, and I asked her how she was , she responded "Fine", and then I was about to engage her in just a little more conversation, just a little bit, and this other customer started complaining about her bloody order, the manager started cooing over this and the woman (that I like) started apologising, obviously thinking maybe she'd done the customer's order wrong and her attention was taken off me. Damn. But anyway, there ya go. I did get a goodbye from her when I left the shop.

 

Funnily enough, the manager winked at me when I went in which was weird. Knowing my luck, it'll turn out that he's gay and he likes me but the woman doesn't.

 

Anyway, waffle aside, the point is, I found this a lot easier after having chatted to some women down the pub last night.

 

I realise today that the problem is I'm rusty. I'm older now, so it's harder to keep in practise. Thanks for the positive comments folks, maybe it is helping a bit. I do feel that I've successfully ratcheted up the familiarity a little bit.

[Wiseman2]

Told you going in to buy cakes would work..but hey, whatever..lol.

Funnily enough, the manager winked at me when I went in which was weird. Knowing my luck, it'll turn out that he's gay and he likes me

[Zaphod]

I think there is nothing wrong with approaching people cold and telling them politely and sincerely that you find them attractive. I've had women do that to me before and it made my day! However, 9/10 will just say thanks and walk on by and will not talk. But some will interact with you. I did that with an attractive lady in Starbucks last week. I was angling to get her number but then noticed her wedding ring! Nothing ventured nothing gained!

 

Good man! That's what I like to hear!

[itsallgrand]

Good for you, man. Keep it up! No shame in being rusty... You'll get back in the swing faster than you think

[Zaphod]

Told you going in to buy cakes would work..but hey, whatever..lol.

 

Looks like it's working, but not quite in the way we'd planned haha. But either way - I've still got it.

[shiner501]

Zaphod, good game man - well done! You have to keep at it and practice. I never fail to make the most of an opportunity to practice day-game on women, old or young. Most love the attention from a man, seriously they do, 9/10 love it and you see their pupils expand in excitement. TRUST ME THEY DO!!!!!!!!! I'd emphasize that in my case this does not mean that I am searching for a plethora of women in my life or wanting to get laid 24x7. Hell, I don't even have a GF at the moment. However, I'd love to find the woman of my dreams so I need to open up all possibilities to meet her. On-line is one, sometimes frustrating, avenue. But day-game, talking to ladies in everyday situations is also crucial. It is much easier to do than people think; you just have to be CHATTY! Look for EVERY opportunity to talk to women. Even if its just chatting the the check-out girl at the supermarket. There is nearly ALWAYS something to talk about.

 

Day-game and trying to eliminate approach anxiety is one of the most important skills a man can master. English speaking society is so f*****d- up because of this problem, where men are just scared to approach women in a natural in way the absence of being inebriated with alcohol.

 

Ladies, this works the other way round too. See a guy at the bookshop? Talk to him! "Hi there, what do you recommend?" He will be flattered!

[shiner501]

...also man, meant to say. You should have struck earlier with this woman if you were keen on her. After two or three meetings. Other wise you lose momentum.

[Zaphod]

...also man, meant to say. You should have struck earlier with this woman if you were keen on her. After two or three meetings. Other wise you lose momentum.

 

Yeah I know exactly what you mean. I may be lucky here though, as I've not really had any meetings with her as such, yet. Only looks, really, and a "hello". Let's hope this one can stretch out a bit on the old momentum front.

 

I do feel more now like I could say hi to her on the street now, so it's a definite improvement. If I do, I'll take it from there. Might be a short delay here while chance wields its web. Otherwise it's flapjack time again.

 

I think the appropriate phrase is "The ice is broken" although it's only imperceptible hairline cracks but you know - the structural integrity has definitely been compromised.

[ParisPaulette]

Stand back, 'cause Paris is riding in to the rescue. Or at least I'll give you a few pointers on what worked on me the one time someone fancied me in passing and actually got a few dates out of me, before he discovered he didn't really like me. (But that's a tale for another time.)

 

You start by smiling and a simple hello as you walk by. Go into the bakery, be pleased to see her and smile and nod hello then order something. You see her again, smile and say, "Oh, you work at the bakery, that was a good cake," smile and walk on by. And yes, you be patient and you just do these little acknowledgements until you are no longer a stranger, you're that nice fellow who is always smiling and saying hello. Scope out what else the shop sells, it won't just be cakes no? If they sell coffee and you like coffee then make that your coffee go to. It's cheaper than cake and it helps one focus anyways.

 

And from there you can get more and more relaxed with each other and then maybe one day you can ask her out. And at that point you aren't really cold approaching her, she knows you well enough to maybe accept an ask out if she's free and single and interested.

 

So yeah, just do that. And if you get yourself involved in some sort of international intrigue with a beautiful woman who works undercover at a cake shop don't say I didn't warn you.

 

But just smile, be friendly, say hello, go buy a damn cake or some coffee already. Keep that up until you aren't just a stranger approaching her on the street.

[Zaphod]

Stand back, 'cause Paris is riding in to the rescue. Or at least I'll give you a few pointers on what worked on me the one time someone fancied me in passing and actually got a few dates out of me, before he discovered he didn't really like me. (But that's a tale for another time.)

 

You start by smiling and a simple hello as you walk by. Go into the bakery, be pleased to see her and smile and nod hello then order something. You see her again, smile and say, "Oh, you work at the bakery, that was a good cake," smile and walk on by. And yes, you be patient and you just do these little acknowledgements until you are no longer a stranger, you're that nice fellow who is always smiling and saying hello. Scope out what else the shop sells, it won't just be cakes no? If they sell coffee and you like coffee then make that your coffee go to. It's cheaper than cake and it helps one focus anyways.

 

And from there you can get more and more relaxed with each other and then maybe one day you can ask her out. And at that point you aren't really cold approaching her, she knows you well enough to maybe accept an ask out if she's free and single and interested.

 

So yeah, just do that. And if you get yourself involved in some sort of international intrigue with a beautiful woman who works undercover at a cake shop don't say I didn't warn you.

 

But just smile, be friendly, say hello, go buy a damn cake or some coffee already. Keep that up until you aren't just a stranger approaching her on the street.

 

I appreciate this, thank you for taking the time to write it.

 

You'll be pleased to hear - this is exactly my plan. I don't even know her name yet. It's only got to "hello" (smile) so far. That is the next one, with perhaps a "where do you come from" chucked in. I''m not being particularly slow, it's just that the "meetings" are a bit sparce, kind of 3 seconds each. It is a really tricky one. But the last one I descirbed a few posts ago did raise a genuine smile from her, so at least she's halfway friendly. I reckon she recognises my face now.

 

I guess it's a similar situation to when people see each other on the train to work occasionally. I like to use the term "ratchet" effect, I think that describes it very well.

 

Funny, because in the past I've procured dates a couple of times on my first meeting with a woman. But it was a different woman. Different vibes, so I'm no stranger to moving fast if I have to. But this one feels like a slow one.

 

Also, knowing me, what'll happen here is I warm this one up really slowly, get on the verge of asking her out........then suddenly get together with another woman. That's what happens though, that's life.

 

Your thing about the guy asking you out then deciding he didn't like you made me chuckle actually, you can write that here if you want and tell me about it. His loss, though, I'm sure.

[Wiseman2]

Adagios can be as interesting as allegros. Yes when it rains, it pours.

Also, knowing me, what'll happen here is I warm this one up really slowly, get on the verge of asking her out........then suddenly get together with another woman.

[Zaphod]

Adagios can be as interesting as allegros.

 

It is certainly a very important skill to learn what kind of pace you should be setting with each individual.

[youareworthy]

Dear Zaphod,

 

Though I have been whistled at and even groped on the street (don't get me started on my disastrous trip to Tunisia), it wasn't until I was 51 that I was seriously asked out by a stranger on the street. He was a police officer, and I had approached him to ask a parking meter question (not as a ruse). We talked a bit, he found out I had just been singing in a concert, we spoke of free concerts in our city, and he said he'd like to go with me some time to one of the free concerts offered daily at a well-known venue. I felt comfortable enough with him that when he asked me for it, I gave him my first name and number.

 

We did end up going to a jazz concert at the concert hall, (each providing our own transport and meeting up there), and had a number of good phone conversations as well. In the end we mutually realized that we did not have enough in common to keep pursuing the situation, but it was a good example of a cold approach (or barely lukewarm) that turned out fine.

 

I think your plan is a good one. Wiseacre2 (oops, I meant) Wiseguy2 (what, I got it wrong again?), Wiseman2 nailed it from the get-go. Buy lots of cake. Give it away to homeless folks if you don't want to eat it and become obese while you are racheting.

 

I hugely enjoy reading threads like this where, under the protection of anonymity, the men of ENA discuss the Zen of asking women out. It provides a fascinating glimpse into the other half of the world.

 

Youareworthy

[musicman777]

OP, I briefly read over your post and situation with this "cake girl" we'll call her. I have a few words for you if you don't mind... You are overthinking this and letting it drag on for too long.

 

I was recently interested in this girl that worked at a grocery store, simply because she talked to me once out of the blue. I started going there every day for several weeks in hopes of getting a chance to talk to her. Literally yesterday I found a receipt from when I was down her aisle once and found her name on the receipt. Little to behold, I found her on Facebook, and not only was she not single, but she was also underage and still in high school! So the point I am making; I wasted my time and money making these daily grocery store visits. I'm not sure how serious she was with this guy on her FB, but she was underage, that's a big "NONO". I'm 26, I can't be dating someone still in high school, not to mention that it's ILLEGAL!

 

My advice to you on this situation; just freaking talk to her and quit fooling around! I have two objectives for you, plain and simple, in this order. 1) find out if she is single and 2) find out her name. You see her on the streets, correct? Beings you went into her shop once, if you run into her on the street say "hey you're the cake girl!". Anything to get her attention/start talking to her. It's not weird or creepy if you are decent and respectful to her. Just talk to her and be friendly. Say "do you have a name I can call you besides cake girl?". It's a funny line and you can get her name. Lastly, I would throw in something like this... "do you eat a lot of cake with your boyfriend?". It's an indirect but amusing way to ask a girl if she's single without being too direct or anything. She'll probably take a hint and/or answer honestly about it. Anything along those lines "do you _____ with your boyfriend?", filling in something about their job/career. Or "what kind of cake does your boyfriend like?" or "do you bring cake home to your boyfriend?" Anything along those lines.

 

If you can't seem to run into her on the street, go to her cake shop and ask it there; "do you eat a lot of cake with your boyfriend?" or one of those other lines. Find some stupid way to shove that into a sentence. Because if she's taken, NONE of this is worth your time. Chances are, she's taken, not interested, or has some other crap going on. It doesn't hurt to try, but you shouldn't get your hopes up or over-complicated this. Besides that, get her name. You bought cake there once, was her name on the receipt like the girl I liked? Look her up on Facebook that way. Whatever you do, just try to get a straight answer, and figure it out ASAP. Don't waste your time/energy, and don't make a 1,000 trips to the cake shop over this girl. Because you will have wasted your time if she's taken or not interested. Good luck.

[Zaphod]

I hugely enjoy reading threads like this where, under the protection of anonymity, the men of ENA discuss the Zen of asking women out. It provides a fascinating glimpse into the other half of the world.

 

I'm interested to know what you make of it?

 

OP, I briefly read over your post and situation with this "cake girl" we'll call her. I have a few words for you if you don't mind... You are overthinking this and letting it drag on for too long.

 

I was recently interested in this girl that worked at a grocery store, simply because she talked to me once out of the blue. I started going there every day for several weeks in hopes of getting a chance to talk to her. Literally yesterday I found a receipt from when I was down her aisle once and found her name on the receipt. Little to behold, I found her on Facebook, and not only was she not single, but she was also underage and still in high school! So the point I am making; I wasted my time and money making these daily grocery store visits. I'm not sure how serious she was with this guy on her FB, but she was underage, that's a big "NONO". I'm 26, I can't be dating someone still in high school, not to mention that it's ILLEGAL!

 

My advice to you on this situation; just freaking talk to her and quit fooling around! I have two objectives for you, plain and simple, in this order. 1) find out if she is single and 2) find out her name. You see her on the streets, correct? Beings you went into her shop once, if you run into her on the street say "hey you're the cake girl!". Anything to get her attention/start talking to her. It's not weird or creepy if you are decent and respectful to her. Just talk to her and be friendly. Say "do you have a name I can call you besides cake girl?". It's a funny line and you can get her name. Lastly, I would throw in something like this... "do you eat a lot of cake with your boyfriend?". It's an indirect but amusing way to ask a girl if she's single without being too direct or anything. She'll probably take a hint and/or answer honestly about it. Anything along those lines "do you _____ with your boyfriend?", filling in something about their job/career. Or "what kind of cake does your boyfriend like?" or "do you bring cake home to your boyfriend?" Anything along those lines.

 

If you can't seem to run into her on the street, go to her cake shop and ask it there; "do you eat a lot of cake with your boyfriend?" or one of those other lines. Find some stupid way to shove that into a sentence. Because if she's taken, NONE of this is worth your time. Chances are, she's taken, not interested, or has some other crap going on. It doesn't hurt to try, but you shouldn't get your hopes up or over-complicated this. Besides that, get her name. You bought cake there once, was her name on the receipt like the girl I liked? Look her up on Facebook that way. Whatever you do, just try to get a straight answer, and figure it out ASAP. Don't waste your time/energy, and don't make a 1,000 trips to the cake shop over this girl. Because you will have wasted your time if she's taken or not interested. Good luck.

 

Musicman, this is pure gold, and I agree 100%.

 

I was down her aisle once

 

Oooh you saucy devil.

 

Ok, two main points - I haven't seen her again since last mention, but if I don't soon then yes, it's cake shop time again, and secondly, I never thought of the receipt thing. I don't think the last receipt had the name on it, but I'll certainly check the next one. I did actually try Facebook by looking up "find friends by employer" but no, although all the other employees are on there but she isn't, which I found quite nice actually. I really hope she's one of those rare non-Facebook people. That was three points, but never mind.

 

Chances are, she's taken, not interested, or has some other crap going on

 

I know, man. Sadly, this is reality, they're all blimmin' taken - or she's going back home soon, or she prefers women, or she likes the saccharine whinings of Adele, which would be the worst one of all. I understand exactly what you're saying.

 

Cheers man, your post made me chuckle. And is very accurate and realistic.

[WithLove]

Don't mind me, just gonna sit here with my popcorn and wait for an update.

[youareworthy]

Don't mind me, just gonna sit here with my popcorn and wait for an update.

Dear WithLove,

 

Me too! The first thing I did tonight was look for the next episode of "Zaphod: The Adventure of the Cake Girl."

 

Dear Zaphod,

 

I hugely enjoy reading threads like this where, under the protection of anonymity, the men of ENA discuss the Zen of asking women out. It provides a fascinating glimpse into the other half of the world.

 

I'm interested to know what you make of it?

 

Just my observations. My comments are in a hetero context, but I assume some are true for folks of other orientations.

 

The self-revelation: The public mask, and the bravado one may adopt with prospects, both disappear with anonymity, revealing the "inner selves" of the men.

 

--The inner selves often display a touching earnestness.

--There is a vulnerability that teaches me that a woman's "no" has more emotional power than many women understand.

--I am surprised at the level of disappointment when a woman is not available/not interested.

--The longing for another human being is palpable.

--Clearly some men (and women) are interested in sexual encounters ONLY. There appears to be a notion of notches in the belt with some men. (Not in this thread!!!)

--And (not new news, but striking nonetheless) it's amazing how easily men are attracted by the physical appearance of a woman, before ever speaking to her.

 

The advice: The advice men on ENA give one another concerning asking women out shows me a lot about men.

 

--Some men advise a "gangbusters" attitude, while others suggest much more diffidence--there is a wide range of counsel.

--There is a strong notion of "skills," and being "rusty" or "in practice." This set of skills seems to be called "game."

--There are sometimes huge differences between what male and female posters tell men to do when asking women out; sometimes the bits of advice are polar opposites! How confusing for the poor OP bloke in a quandary!

--Some men put a lot of stock in the teachings of relationship gurus. Some women would disagree with what some of those gurus teach. I was appalled by some of their representations of what women want and how we feel...

 

The universality of humanity: Even in this era of casual sex, there are certain universal experiences spanning gender and age.

 

--The longing for a meaningful connection.

--The tremendous importance of having someone special in our lives.

--The tendency to pin a lot of hope on one prospect (I had thought that was mainly a habit of women).

--The real disappointment and pain when something doesn't work out (which means there were expectations of some kind).

--The tendency for some to overthink the dating process. Our dear Sportster2005 freely admits to doing this. Mea culpa as well!

--Though the notions of numbers of conquests and/or bedding a woman quickly do exist, often on ENA those are not what men are talking about. The men of ENA frequently express interest in an actual relationship.

 

It's fun to peek behind the curtain!

 

Youareworthy

[Zaphod]

Dear WithLove,

 

Me too! The first thing I did tonight was look for the next episode of "Zaphod: The Adventure of the Cake Girl."

 

Listen, I'd better clear this up, sorry to be boring but this is going to be a real non-eventful slow burner. I can feel it in my water. I know that I tell my stories with an unparalleled mystique and wit, but listen - I'll bet you 100 US dollars that what'll happen here is I get talking properly eventually and she has a boyfriend. Always always alwyas the way, at least it has been with me last few times. They always say that, and rightfully so. It's what I would say by default if I was a girl and didn't know the man properly. Just - don't want to raise your hopes that it's going to be "Breaking Bad" where in actual fact it turns out to be an advert for house insurance.

 

That's why I want to open the thread up to just general banter on the subject, othwerwise all you'll be getting an eyeful of is tumbleweed.

 

 

 

 

Just my observations. My comments are in a hetero context, but I assume some are true for folks of other orientations.

 

The self-revelation: The public mask, and the bravado one may adopt with prospects, both disappear with anonymity, revealing the "inner selves" of the men.

 

--The inner selves often display a touching earnestness.

--There is a vulnerability that teaches me that a woman's "no" has more emotional power than many women understand.

 

It's a killer.

 

 

--I am surprised at the level of disappointment when a woman is not available/not interested.

 

I think this is soemthing a man has to harden himself up to. Takes time, this one.

 

 

--And (not new news, but striking nonetheless) it's amazing how easily men are attracted by the physical appearance of a woman, before ever speaking to her.

 

I am an absolute unashamed sucker for a pretty face. But it runs deeper than that, it's "something" about the appearance, the way they walk, their voice, their language, their attitude. I think maybe our programmed instinct is to assume that because someone looks nice, they are nice. Which as we all know very often turns out to be the opposite.

 

But yeah I am a total visual person, but it's not only about looks, but actions, I guess too. Trying to "judge" the personality of a woman when you don't know her at all, with the extremely limited info you have about her. To me, voice is very important, as well as the way they walk.

 

I can see a room full of beautiful women, but there's always one that'll get me on another level, for a reason I can't explain. And probably she turns out to be the prat of the bunch haha.

 

 

The advice: The advice men on ENA give one another concerning asking women out shows me a lot about men.

 

--Some men advise a "gangbusters" attitude, while others suggest much more diffidence--there is a wide range of counsel.

--There is a strong notion of "skills," and being "rusty" or "in practice." This set of skills seems to be called "game."

 

Yeah I hate the term "game" but I have always referred to being "rusty" or "in practise". Actually it only really takes five minutes for the rust to wear off.

 

 

--There are sometimes huge differences between what male and female posters tell men to do when asking women out; sometimes the bits of advice are polar opposites! How confusing for the poor OP bloke in a quandary!

--Some men put a lot of stock in the teachings of relationship gurus. Some women would disagree with what some of those gurus teach. I was appalled by some of their representations of what women want and how we feel...

 

I've seen a few of those. I don't subscribe to their methods. Always been a bit of a maverick like that, never understood it so made my own methods and beliefs. But I guess it's good when they help really shy guys who don't otherwise stand a chance. Other than that, I tend to come away thinking they're a bit of a prat.

 

 

The universality of humanity: Even in this era of casual sex, there are certain universal experiences spanning gender and age.

 

--The longing for a meaningful connection.

 

That's what it's about. leads to better sex, you see. Only joking (or am I?).

 

--The tremendous importance of having someone special in our lives.

--The tendency to pin a lot of hope on one prospect (I had thought that was mainly a habit of women).

 

Ah "Oneitis" - I should have updated here actually, I can recognise oneitis in myself nowadays, and I'm currently trying to get a butchers girl and a candlestick maker girl to rotate with the cake girl (near enough to "baker" for the joke to work, right?) - this is not "playing" I must stress, it's self preservation. I don't mean dating them all, I mean to rotate the thoughts to avoid oneitis.

 

--The real disappointment and pain when something doesn't work out (which means there were expectations of some kind).

--The tendency for some to overthink the dating process. Our dear Sportster2005 freely admits to doing this. Mea culpa as well!

 

Comes with intelligence, I think. We can overthink many things in life. Sucks.

 

--Though the notions of numbers of conquests and/or bedding a woman quickly do exist, often on ENA those are not what men are talking about. The men of ENA frequently express interest in an actual relationship.

 

It's fun to peek behind the curtain!

 

Youareworthy

 

Not going to use quotes, because that could have got messy, my replies in red... they refer to the comment of yours directly preceding them.

 

Ah you sound like a fine woman. Very sagacious. I enjoyed reading that because you've got it sussed, but you're not taking the mickey out of it, it sounds like you sympathise with us a bit.

 

Also, sorry about the red italics. Not the kindest choice for the eyes but I can't be bothered to change it.

 

Thank you for taking the time to put that together, I found it genuinely entertaining and heart-warming.