Reconciliation

[Tanzi]

In the end it’s your decision to try or not. But all these hard and fast rules of, never, never, never take someone back are starting to grate on my nerves a little.

 

Good post Clinton but I think you are confusing the general opinion on NC with that of reconciliation. No-one is against reconciliation .... but actually reconciling and hanging around in the hope of reconciling are two entirely different things. Most people on this site are doing the latter and that is what the advice is generally based upon.

 

Most situations on eNA aren't about reconciliation at all ... they are mostly about WANTING reconciliation and, unfortunately in most cases, the exes involved haven't indicated that is what they want. More often than not the advice then given is that until your ex says they want you back stick with NC and keep on moving forwards .... and that remains the best advice IMHO.

 

Now, as for never, never, never breaking NC .... well that's a whole different kettle of fish!

[catfeeder]

Whenever I see someone's grief stir a hornet's nest of admonition against hope of any kind, I cringe. There's no value in a bunch of unhealed people force feeding bitter pills to another. A fiery wall of heads in hell saying, "join us..." comes to mind.

 

I view hope as the percentage play in healing regardless of outcomes. It can buy you the time to let go and avoid the regrets of acting like an idiot--which only compounds the problem. It can buy you the peace of trusting that if you and ex are really a meant-to-be deal, the ex will recognize this at some point. It buys you the space, the privacy and the motivation to grow, and if it turns out that you're not given an opportunity to reconcile, you'll still have all of that work under your belt to aid further healing.

 

I see no point to browbeating anyone to get over anything. If a fantasy of reconciling can prompt a person to adopt their best dignity to move themselves toward higher ground, then regardless of whether an ex will meet them there, they've gained that ground. And they aren't likely to turn hostile on the next person who is grieving.

 

Thanks, Clinton.

[BlarneyStone]

Whenever I see someone's grief stir a hornet's nest of admonition against hope of any kind, I cringe. There's no value in a bunch of unhealed people force feeding bitter pills to another. A fiery wall of heads in hell saying, "join us..." comes to mind.

 

I view hope as the percentage play in healing regardless of outcomes. It can buy you the time to let go and avoid the regrets of acting like an idiot--which only compounds the problem. It can buy you the peace of trusting that if you and ex are really a meant-to-be deal, the ex will recognize this at some point. It buys you the space, the privacy and the motivation to grow, and if it turns out that you're not given an opportunity to reconcile, you'll still have all of that work under your belt to aid further healing.

 

I see no point to browbeating anyone to get over anything. If a fantasy of reconciling can prompt a person to adopt their best dignity to move themselves toward higher ground, then regardless of whether an ex will meet them there, they've gained that ground. And they aren't likely to turn hostile on the next person who is grieving.

 

Thanks, Clinton.

 

I truly, sincerely wish I could agree with this, but this just isn't reality. What you're implying is to let someone have hope for reconciliation and use that as fuel to become a better person and grow from the experience. But when reconciliation doesn't happen, that person is just supposed to say, "Welp, oh well, at least I learned from this" and drop the whole thing on a whim? The clinging to false hope could set someone back, and the improvements could show only as a ruse when they are targeted for getting an ex back who isn't available.

 

Nice idea on paper, but just not worth the risk. As far as those who give advice against hope (me), some people need to hear it that way. I had a friend go after an ex for months and months after getting passive advice of staying away. Then he got a restraining order slapped on him and spent a night in jail. Some people need to face the bitter truth.

 

I know it sucks, but truly growing from being dumped comes from reaching indifference and losing that hope (hell, you could apply the LAHWF mentality here). And on the off chance the dumper reaches out to try again, you're a new person and will actually be capable of trying again, if you so choose.

[Tanzi]

Duplicate post, sorry! :stupid:

[Tanzi]

I truly, sincerely wish I could agree with this, but this just isn't reality. What you're implying is to let someone have hope for reconciliation and use that as fuel to become a better person and grow from the experience. But when reconciliation doesn't happen, that person is just supposed to say, "Welp, oh well, at least I learned from this" and drop the whole thing on a whim? The clinging to false hope could set someone back, and the improvements could show only as a ruse when they are targeted for getting an ex back who isn't available. .

 

I don't think that was what Catfeeder was implying, certainly not expecting someone to drop the whole thing on a whim.

 

Not that I disagree with you entirely BlarneyStone but there's a difference between hope and false hope. For the record (as per catfeeder's post) I don't think the vast majority of those giving advice are necessarily "a bunch of unhealed people". There is a wealth of invaluable experience on this site that has been gained through experience. It isn't just coming from a place bitterness.

 

With that being said, (and I think this is the point that catfeeder was also making) I believe that we need that little bit of hope in the beginning. It is something we naturally cling to. That little fantasy of reconciliation lights up our dark world and sees us through the darkest days. As time goes on and we slowly start to heal we naturally start letting go of that hope. As we move forwards with our lives we are able to face up to the reality of the situation and we no longer need to cling to that hope. In other words it IS part of the very early healing process .... our own natural defenses trying to protect our broken heart. Someone once said to me (years and years ago now, when I first joined eNA) that there was nothing wrong with having that little bit of hope whilst moving on also .... that struck a chord with me and I believe it to be true.

 

However, feeding someone false hope is an entirely different matter. When the odds look set against an ex coming back (perhaps they've made it very clear that they don't want to come back or they have a new partner) and someone is still having a tough time accepting that then there is nothing wrong with giving them a nudge in the right direction.

 

Like I said before no-one is against reconciliation .... and if someone came to eNA asking for advice on their own reconciliation, I doubt they will hear "noooooo, don't do it" (unless the relationship has a toxic/unhealthy background of course) but that is a completely different issue from feeding people false hope where there is no evidence that reconciliation can occur.

 

Most of the time, when people are being steered away from the idea of reconciliation it is because the evidence before us suggests that reconciliation isn't on the cards. If it were, then the advice would be completely different. However, that is rarely the case on eNA.

[catfeeder]

I truly, sincerely wish I could agree with this, but this just isn't reality. What you're implying is to let someone have hope for reconciliation and use that as fuel to become a better person and grow from the experience. But when reconciliation doesn't happen, that person is just supposed to say, "Welp, oh well, at least I learned from this" and drop the whole thing on a whim? The clinging to false hope could set someone back, and the improvements could show only as a ruse when they are targeted for getting an ex back who isn't available.

 

Nice idea on paper, but just not worth the risk. As far as those who give advice against hope (me), some people need to hear it that way. I had a friend go after an ex for months and months after getting passive advice of staying away. Then he got a restraining order slapped on him and spent a night in jail. Some people need to face the bitter truth.

 

I know it sucks, but truly growing from being dumped comes from reaching indifference and losing that hope (hell, you could apply the LAHWF mentality here). And on the off chance the dumper reaches out to try again, you're a new person and will actually be capable of trying again, if you so choose.

 

I agree that there's a difference between operating on hope to heal in privacy versus stalking an ex. I'm a believer in No Contact and skipping the friends-with-ex route. But I've always used private hope as a gentler means of weaning myself away from broken relationships than beating myself up for my lack of desire to let go of it.

 

At what point does all hope drop away? It varies for everyone--so it makes no sense to bully someone to try to force it. All that does is alienate them from the idea that anyone else can possibly understand, even while we all understand all too well--it's a universal pain. That's exactly why it's the opposite of helpful to forget how freakish it feels to be dumped.

 

There are plenty of ways to encourage healing while discouraging the contact that, I agree, is only likely to prevent healing. Saying, "Here, let me clobber you with my dose of reality for you..." is just an excuse to clobber, and that's obvious to those of us who don't view punishment as an effective means of encouraging anything.

[catfeeder]

For the record (as per catfeeder's post) I don't think the vast majority of those giving advice are necessarily "a bunch of unhealed people". There is a wealth of invaluable experience on this site that has been gained through experience. It isn't just coming from a place bitterness.

 

I agree, Blue. I was referring to the pile-ons to bludgeon rather than the general population.

 

With that being said, (and I think this is the point that catfeeder was also making) I believe that we need that little bit of hope in the beginning. It is something we naturally cling to.

 

While I wouldn't venture to prescribe what anyone else 'needs,' I like your choice of the word 'naturally,' because 'denial' is one of the 5 'natural' stages of grief identified by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, along with anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. This model was originally applied to death and dying, but contemporary therapists employ it for any form of grief.

 

So I just see no need to be alarmed by anyone's expressions of hope as some urgent fire that needs to be put out.

 

Watching someone struggle with hope can be uncomfortable, but it's not a requirement to make them put on a sweater if I'm the one who's cold.

 

I don't force-feed hope, just as I don't force-feed shutting it down. Everyone is entitled to work through their own stuff at their own pace. I just see the value in using what exists already to one's advantage rather than trying to expel it or exorcise it through grief-shaming.

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts about my post. I appreciate it very much.

[Man with Dog]

I have no doubt about that. I usually hope the advice people get here will at the very least get stored somewhere at the backs of their minds and will marginally influence their decisions, but do I really believe anyone has ever followed the advice received to a T? No, not at all. Deep down I think it's natural to want to experience everything on your own skin and deal with the downfalls, because trusting others is not as easy as it sounds and it can give way to those nasty "what ifs".

 

Good points. At the end of the day, it is up to posters how much they want to take on board. Hopefully by giving them a variety of opinions and anecdotes, we can at least help.

[Hermes]

That exactly it, Blue:

 

".......there's a difference between hope and false hope"

 

False hope aka Malignant Optimism.

 

Good post, Blue.

[Man with Dog]

I've been guilty in the past of hoping for a reconciliation when there was little or no chance of it happening. I've learned (the hard way) that moving on and finding someone else, when the time is right, has worked better for me.

 

I also reconciled with one ex simply because the sex was great. Rather cynical of me, I must confess and I feel guilty for how I treated her. However, the reasons for the original split had not been resolved, so it happened again.

 

I think, also, that whether or not to reconcile is dependent on the status of a relationship. It is also dependent on the reason for the split. I would (out of personal choice) never reconcile with someone who cheated on me. That doesn't mean that there aren't some success stories out there but could you really be with someone when every time they are late or not where you thought they were makes you feel suspicious?

 

Also, I know that in at least one case, my ex had emotionally left a long time before they physically left.

 

I can't remember who wrote it but, yes, there is a point of no return. For example, once an ex has declared on Facebook that they are in a relationship, it's a pretty clear sign that it is not to be.

[BlarneyStone]

I agree that there's a difference between operating on hope to heal in privacy versus stalking an ex. I'm a believer in No Contact and skipping the friends-with-ex route. But I've always used private hope as a gentler means of weaning myself away from broken relationships than beating myself up for my lack of desire to let go of it.

 

At what point does all hope drop away? It varies for everyone--so it makes no sense to bully someone to try to force it. All that does is alienate them from the idea that anyone else can possibly understand, even while we all understand all too well--it's a universal pain. That's exactly why it's the opposite of helpful to forget how freakish it feels to be dumped.

 

There are plenty of ways to encourage healing while discouraging the contact that, I agree, is only likely to prevent healing. Saying, "Here, let me clobber you with my dose of reality for you..." is just an excuse to clobber, and that's obvious to those of us who don't view punishment as an effective means of encouraging anything.

 

I guess it depends on the person and what he/she is capable of. I view it as a waste of energy. Refer back to Shane's post. He mentioned that both parties must admit to fault for the break-up in some fashion, therefore both parties must evolve in some way to get past those faults. This is very true. If you give it enough thought, you'll notice the flaws in the dumper and, in my opinion, that should be fuel for you to heal. If the dumper reaches out to try again, the potential for success falls on both parties based upon how each party has evolved in the time apart. Using hope or false hope publicly or privately eliminates those variables because, as the dumpee, you're not focusing on what the dumper could improve on as well. Instead, you're likely focusing on how great they were (when they probably weren't) and there's a good chance the recon will end the same way the first relationship did. Having self worth is very attractive and very healthy. And with self worth comes to ability to pinpoint the shortcomings of the dumper. If both parties don't understand the dynamics of the break-up or evolve past them, what's the point in trying again? There's even a good chance the dumpee could be taken advantage of.

 

It should become a matter of acceptance rather than hope. I don't view this as punishing someone. I view this as giving someone a realistic idea of how life works, because life is tough. And it should be tough, it builds character. It builds experience. We're all adults. We can handle a little criticism. Some lessons in life are just going to be difficult to swallow, and that's just the way it is. Now I will say that a bunch of internet strangers will never, ever know exactly how to diagnose any given circumstance on this forum. We can only go by what is posted and share our thoughts. That's why I view the law of relativism as the way to go. And that's an extremely generalized viewpoint. There are simply too many unknown variables we will never be able to dissect.

 

EDIT: totally put law of relativity instead of relativism.

[Hermes]

Yes, Blarney.

 

"Having self worth is very attractive and very healthy. And with self worth comes to ability to pinpoint the shortcomings of the dumper. "

[catfeeder]

I guess it depends on the person and what he/she is capable of. I view it as a waste of energy. Refer back to Shane's post. He mentioned that both parties must admit to fault for the break-up in some fashion, therefore both parties must evolve in some way to get past those faults. This is very true. If you give it enough thought, you'll notice the flaws in the dumper and, in my opinion, that should be fuel for you to heal. If the dumper reaches out to try again, the potential for success falls on both parties based upon how each party has evolved in the time apart. Using hope or false hope publicly or privately eliminates those variables because, as the dumpee, you're not focusing on what the dumper could improve on as well. Instead, you're likely focusing on how great they were (when they probably weren't) and there's a good chance the recon will end the same way the first relationship did. Having self worth is very attractive and very healthy. And with self worth comes to ability to pinpoint the shortcomings of the dumper. If both parties don't understand the dynamics of the break-up or evolve past them, what's the point in trying again? There's even a good chance the dumpee could be taken advantage of.

 

It should become a matter of acceptance rather than hope. I don't view this as punishing someone. I view this as giving someone a realistic idea of how life works, because life is tough. And it should be tough, it builds character. It builds experience. We're all adults. We can handle a little criticism. Some lessons in life are just going to be difficult to swallow, and that's just the way it is. Now I will say that a bunch of internet strangers will never, ever know exactly how to diagnose any given circumstance on this forum. We can only go by what is posted and share our thoughts. That's why I view the law of relativism as the way to go. And that's an extremely generalized viewpoint. There are simply too many unknown variables we will never be able to dissect.

 

EDIT: totally put law of relativity instead of relativism.

 

I appreciate your views, Blarney. You can't talk someone out of hope, even if they wish you could. I just see value in using what exists already to one's advantage. It's not necessary to assess anyone's capacity to do that. It's a suggestion, which can be used or not just like any other.

[Tanzi]

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts about my post. I appreciate it very much.

 

Thanks catfeeder. I'm glad you didn't mind!

[youareworthy]

Dear Clinton,

 

Thank you for this original post. I agree that the responses to OPs can sometimes come across as browbeating. I also agree that there are a few instances when reconciliation is possible and produces a good outcome, and those instances happen when the parties take a healthy approach, such as Lost and others describe here.

 

I also really appreciate Catfeeder's point of view because in the times when I was the dumpee, the initial pain was often so great that the hope I was feeling for a reconciliation was the one element that kept me grounded. It sounds a bit contradictory, but what I mean is that if there is even a modicum of hope, and that hope keeps one from suicidal thoughts, or severe depression, or acting out in a "crazy-ex" fashion, that hope is a very good thing.

 

I also agree with Catfeeder that the hope occurs organically, as a part of the natural grieving process. I have a profound respect for all healthy naturally occurring processes. As examples, I believe a pregnancy and labor tend to go much better when we understand and allow the natural processes to occur as they are designed to. I think that parenting has a far better outcome when parents understand normal human development, and don't try to eliminate, hasten or slow those developmental processes in their children. I feel that a person heals more completely from grief and loss when the griever and those around him or her give time and space to recover in the way and timing that the griever instinctively needs.

 

I have seen firsthand the benefits to myself of permitting natural hope to reside in my heart along with all the other natural emotions of a break-up.

 

This is a fascinating thread!

 

Youareworthy