It's About The Journey...

[notalady]

My birthday was very nice, thanks for asking reinvent

 

I got into work that morning and a few girls at work decorated my desk with a banner and balloon, also got me some nice chocolate fudge (I don't eat much sweet but it's the thought that counts).

 

J took me to a fancy Mediterranean (fusion?) restaurant near his place for dinner, I've always wanted to try it, they have some inventive dishes and flavours were awesome!

 

He also bought us a day trip to a nearby island (a famous holidaying and snorkelling location) to see dolphins and snorkel, I always wanted to go there as well just never did. It'll be a nice day! I'm excited to go! I have to say I much prefer an experience than getting jewellery.

 

By the way both were planned on his own without any hints from me, so I am definitely impressed

 

He also got me a couple of little things like, some fairy lights (only 5 metres) to put up at his place because he knows I like fairy lights (I wouldn't bother decorating my place because it's a rental, so I'll put it up at his), also a couple of quirky fridge magnets, one says in big letters "You are weird." Then small letters "I like it." Another one says "show me your kitties" with some kittens on it. It's funny, I got a good laugh out of them. I told him I actually have a magnet from this place, it says in big letters "I want you to know that someone cares" then small letters "not me but someone".

 

Overall, a very good day

[itsallgrand]

Very thoughtful, lovely gifts from your guy. I am so happy for you to have that person who lights up your life. You totally deserve it.

 

And I agree, that experience together is much better than jewelry. And I like jewelry

[WithLove]

Sounds like J did a great job on your gifts! It makes me happy that you're happy.

[notalady]

Thanks IAG and WL! love seeing you guys popping by

[notalady]

We got some professional photos taken at work last week, now we get to choose a few that we like, which will get touched up (colour, tone, lighting etc). I saw the samples of the final photo the guy did on a few people, including one of me, which looks nice but just something about it didn't look quite right. My boss commented my smile looked frozen, I just thought it's probably just one where I've been smiling for a while, so it didn't look very natural anymore.

 

Anyway then when I was going through the originals to pick out ones that I liked, I did a side by side of the original of that touched up photo, and that's when I realised, he had shaved or stretched down my chin to make it narrower, which is why my smile looked unnatural, and made my eyes bigger. He did the same for a few other of the women (I didn't look at the men but I don't think he did).

 

Of course, I pointed mine out to the marketing people and they said they will request mine not be touched up. I said I'm fine with colour, tone, complexion etc touch ups to make it look professional, but just not changing facial features.

 

It wasn't super obvious or anything, they did it subtly, even I didn't notice until I did a side by side. But still, the original looked way better, way more natural. My face is already pointy, just a bit more fleshy when I smile, but that's what makes the smile look natural and warm! I don't understand why he thought my face needed to look pointier or eyes bigger.

 

Ladies, it is a sad display of our society's beauty standards for women.

 

Even sadder, one of the ladies, who has more of a square face, absolutely loved her slimmed down chin and bigger eyes (hers was more obvious when we did a side by side).

 

Why can't we just be happy with what we've got? I would feel like a fraud using a photo where my facial features or body shape has been altered.

[Batya33]

Wow -that's something! It's a slippery slope, right -if you wear makeup, then by definition you're not happy with what you've got (which isn't bad or good ,it just is). I typically hate how I look in photos. The last time I had to do work photos they didn't have that capability!

[Fudgie]

How times have changed. When I used to have school photos, I remember it was $5 or $10 for "acne touch ups" where they would eliminate your acne completely and do some other work to your face. I used to have really bad acne in my younger years and HATED getting my photo taken but it seemed really fake to me to have that done. So I didn't. My friends and I used to flip through the yearbook and guess which dorky boys had the service done on their photos. It was actually pretty obvious because it would change the whole look of your face/photo.

 

I am not happy with my face sometimes but I will not have photo touch ups or filters done. I also don't wear make-up but that's only cause I don't like how it feels. I can get why some women wear make-up but to actually modify photos like that strikes me as disingenuous. It's not like you're putting color or shade paint on your face. It's actually modifying the look of your bone structure.

[Batya33]

How times have changed. When I used to have school photos, I remember it was $5 or $10 for "acne touch ups" where they would eliminate your acne completely and do some other work to your face. I used to have really bad acne in my younger years and HATED getting my photo taken but it seemed really fake to me to have that done. So I didn't. My friends and I used to flip through the yearbook and guess which dorky boys had the service done on their photos. It was actually pretty obvious because it would change the whole look of your face/photo.

 

I am not happy with my face sometimes but I will not have photo touch ups or filters done. I also don't wear make-up but that's only cause I don't like how it feels. I can get why some women wear make-up but to actually modify photos like that strikes me as disingenuous. It's not like you're putting color or shade paint on your face. It's actually modifying the look of your bone structure.

I was responding to the more general "be happy with what we've got" - totally agree it's on a spectrum

[notalady]

Wow -that's something! It's a slippery slope, right -if you wear makeup, then by definition you're not happy with what you've got (which isn't bad or good ,it just is). I typically hate how I look in photos. The last time I had to do work photos they didn't have that capability!

 

I'm not sure I get the slippery slope comment, as in making changes to people's facial features in photos or the thought that we should be happy with what we got? Lol

[notalady]

How times have changed. When I used to have school photos, I remember it was $5 or $10 for "acne touch ups" where they would eliminate your acne completely and do some other work to your face. I used to have really bad acne in my younger years and HATED getting my photo taken but it seemed really fake to me to have that done. So I didn't. My friends and I used to flip through the yearbook and guess which dorky boys had the service done on their photos. It was actually pretty obvious because it would change the whole look of your face/photo.

 

I am not happy with my face sometimes but I will not have photo touch ups or filters done. I also don't wear make-up but that's only cause I don't like how it feels. I can get why some women wear make-up but to actually modify photos like that strikes me as disingenuous. It's not like you're putting color or shade paint on your face. It's actually modifying the look of your bone structure.

 

Yes one of the marketing ladies, when I was requesting not to have my photos changed that way, said she didn't like how the guy smoothed out her complexion so much (her facial features didn't get changed), it looked fake to her, so she's requesting him not to do that on her photo.

 

I think it's always very obvious when people use filters and those snap chat features that makes your complexion look better and add digital make up and stuff (not the animal or funny ones). A few women on my Facebook had shared photos like that on Facebook before, and I was like..yea that doesn't look like you at all.

 

I remember a friend of my mum's showing me a photo of her niece, who is online dating, in the photos she had very slim and pointy face, very pretty features, plus filter, and the lady said she's actually quite a bit overweight, and didn't look like that at all. Then said that she had flew to another country to meet with a guy before, only to be turned back at the airport! Because the guy immediately said she looked nothing like her photos and was not interested in pursuing things further. I just thought...why would you lie about something like that? You'll get found out anyway and would've wasted your time and energy (and in this case money)!

[Fudgie]

Yeah the filtered photo thing makes no sense to me. If someone passes on you in online dating cause they don't like your photo, that's fine. If you take accurate photos, it means that they wouldn't want you in real life either. Shaving off pounds or years in photos just wastes the other person's time and your own, too!

 

At the end of the day, I think most people are exceedingly average. Some are hot, some are most definitely not, most are average. And that's totally okay. No need to try to make yourself look like a different person.

[itsallgrand]

Yikes. It's kind of creepy, isn't it?! That 'professional' now means photoshopped. Lol

 

I'm glad you went with a more natural warm photo that isn't heavily augmented. What came to my mind immediately were real estate business cards and financial service cards - where a lot of the photos look so unnatural it's unnerving to me. Gives me a bad impression, rightly or wrongly, when they choose plastic faces. It conveys a certain comfort with dishonesty which doesn't sit right with me - especially if I am considering trusting them with my money.

[notalady]

Yikes. It's kind of creepy, isn't it?! That 'professional' now means photoshopped. Lol

 

Yes my thought exactly!

[reinventmyself]

I guess if they wanted to put filter on it or soften the edges. . I don't know.

But to shave off your facial features to the point it doesn't look like you is not ok!

[notalady]

I guess if they wanted to put filter on it or soften the edges. . I don't know.

But to shave off your facial features to the point it doesn't look like you is not ok!

 

Well it still looked like me just...unnatural looking lol... and when you do a side by side with the original, you can tell what's been changed. And once you see it, it looks even more unnatural lol...

[Batya33]

I'm not sure I get the slippery slope comment, as in making changes to people's facial features in photos or the thought that we should be happy with what we got? Lol

 

It's a slippery slope -meaning you said we should be happy with what we've got and that's kinda broad and suggests we shouldn't wear makeup either because that changes our natural appearance. And of course it's a slippery slope meaning if the point is be happy with what you've got, but makeup is ok, and if makeup is ok ,what about [fill in the blanks, going towards the more extreme situation of filtering photos]. I think people who want their photos filtered or do that in order to attract people probably aren't satisfied with what they got but I think it's fine within reason to want to change or enhance one's appearance - within limits. what those limits are vary. To me the filtering situation isn't "why isn't she happy with what she's got" but rather "why is she going to such great lengths to change her appearance?"

[notalady]

Had a debate with a friend on the good ol' topic of whether one should cohabit with their partner before marriage. He (and his friend who was present) insisted that you NEED to live together before marriage, because you find out stuff you didn't know, and you get to know what they're like at home and what it's like spending so much time together, while I was saying I think just spending enough time together (sometimes extended periods of time, like days to a week), especially in a home setting, is sufficient, people get more relaxed after a while and show more or less who they really are (and their habits and quirks). So it makes no difference to me whether we live together first, I'm not denying there might be things I'll find out that I don't already know, but I have very little doubt that it's going to be more than some small quirks and habits that I can work with, because all the important things like values, personality and character (which I already know quite well) are largely aligned, I don't think there's anything we can't work together to overcome.

 

I also said that we have still not had a fight, and they both said it's because we don't live together, as if that's the be all and end all, I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that statement. I just said, that's not true, I argued with all my ex's within the first 3 months and onwards, and they said living together will only make it worse, and I said yes I already know that, that's why I said, living together doesn't make a difference to me, because I already KNOW things will only get worse when it's already not very good to start with, so why do I need to see it materialise?

 

Anyway, but it did make me wonder, does anyone here who hadn't lived with a partner before marriage find out things they didn't know about them, after marriage? If so, what kinds of things? I'm talking about things you didn't have a clue about or didn't see coming before living together (so not like, you kinda knew but just didn't pay attention to). Care to share?

[Batya33]

I've written before, living together would have made no difference in our case IMHO. We became parents less than 3 months after the wedding. Whatever I would have learned would have had no relevance to living with a newborn and all his stuff in 500 square feet which we did for the first 3 months of his life. I never believed generally in living together either - for convenience right before the wedding ,sure (silly to pay for and maintain two apartments, etc).

 

I also think it depends when the wedding is and why you are living together as to whether you learn what is relevant. I don't judge anyone for living together. I do think it's silly -those who call it a next step when it's really just sharing physical space - unless the couple agrees on an emotional/commitment purpose to living together I don't see it as relevant to progression in the relationship. (And I mean couples who want a long term commitment but not marriage may live together for the purpose of being long term romantic partners -not saying there has to be a wedding but I know you are marriage minded).

 

 

I found out some new things I guess- living day to day with a pack rat can be frustrating (but I knew that) - but for example I wouldn't have known that living with a night owl can have a huge effect -good and bad -on parenting and parenting schedules, I couldn't have known that his snoring would get really bad -because from all I can remember it wasn't when we spent time together (and yes we were together a lot overnight when we dated). I guess one big thing is that since we got married in our 40s and were each established financially and in our careers, the finance part wasn't a stress - I could see where budgeting as a couple could be new/stressful. But I completely changed my job from intense crazy hour professional to intense crazy hour mommying. I also relocated (after he did!) 8 months after marriage. So it really depends whether your life situation living together will be exactly the same after the wedding as far as the "learning".

 

I do think it's important to resolve actual conflict together.

[notalady]

Thanks for sharing Batya, interesting what you found out about him snoring more that you didn't notice before. The finance/budgeting thing is also what I can think of that might be a challenging aspect / source of disagreement after marriage, because I can already see we have some different views on that, although not hugely different (eg big saver vs big spender). But living together before marriage would've made no difference in that aspect, I wouldn't mix finances before marriage anyway.

 

It's also interesting to know the difference in sleeping hours made a difference when it comes to parenting, it's all the little things you don't tend to think of isn't it.

 

I did say to my friend that I figured out a lot of things that I can or can't stand domestically just by living with my dad (eg messiness, cleanliness, leaving the toilet seat up or down etc), cos you know, sometimes you don't know if something bothers you until you've experienced it. He was like "it's your dad so it's different", I was like, well no, something either bothers me or it doesn't, it doesn't matter if it's my dad or a partner or a room mate. So I have looked out for those aspects when I spend time with J, and I feel fairly confident that there's nothing in those aspects that will bother me and like, the more I learn the less there is to surprise me (if anything) when we're married.

[itsallgrand]

Hmm I'm not sure why exactly your friends have such strong feelings about it. I do think there are things you learn and an intimacy/ familiarity that happens when living with a partner in a serious committed relationship that you just can't know until you live together. I don't think it's necessary to live together before marriage or the equivalent though. I am not as marriage minded as you, but I am commitment minded. For me, the commitment always came before the decision to move in together, not before and not to test it out. Like you said, it's more about taking the time to really know your partner first. What's REALLY important to them, to see their values personality and character over time. There's always the risk you'll find out unpleasant little surprises along the way.

 

I could see their stance in cases where people don't really know each other. And I do think having lived on your own, both parties, can play a part too in adjustment period and expectations. Two young twenty somethings who both always lived at home and just dating and get married and move in together - might be some big surprises there! But even that, it can work... I don't have super strong feelings of what is best for all in this because to a degree it's so individual

[Batya33]

I agree with your friend that it depends who is leaving the seat up or doing the irritating whatever. Dad is different from partner is different from child, etc (I get that we have different expectations of children!).

 

On the parenting part - night owl v. morning person makes a HUGE difference but it works kind of ok if the two parents are one of each AND even better if only one works full time. Scenario - young children often are early risers. Mine is. I am a morning person. So on a Saturday morning our LO might be up by 6 most likely. If he doesn't have a Saturday morning activity (which wouldn't start till 9, the earliest) and it's dark outside/cold, whatever - we are stuck inside - well meaning I can't leave the house to go work out, shop, etc (unless you have child care or your child is an angel who loves to trek to the market at that hour). Husband usually gets up by 10am. So that's 4 hours of not much going on. Some parents take turns - night owl has to get up early one of the weekend mornings. But when I was a SAHM, part of my job was to parent full time so, no, we did not take turns on weekends. Now that I work part time we still don't take turns but my son is 8 so I get at least 1-2 hours of work done in those early mornings when my husband is sleeping.

 

This also means if you share a bed (and not all couples do because of all of the above) then your partner is coming to be much later than you and you know you probably need to be up by 6 even on a weekend (and often on school mornings). If you are a light sleeper, well.....

 

But I know for you parenting is a ways off after marriage so I don't mean to do the cart before the horse, just responding that it can be a big deal to work out and can be worked out somewhat in advance.

[Fudgie]

I think it's really dependent on the couple. Yes, I think there are some things that you won't find out about someone until you move in with them but I don't believe that it's IMPERATIVE that you must move in together prior to marriage. I think it depends on the couple and how long they've been together/quality time spend together/things they've discussed. I'd argue that a couple who hasn't lived together but has spent a lot of time discussing life topics and goals may be more ready to get married than a couple who lives together but hasn't had the tough conversations.

[notalady]

I agree with your friend that it depends who is leaving the seat up or doing the irritating whatever. Dad is different from partner is different from child, etc (I get that we have different expectations of children!).

 

I think I would react / communicate somewhat differently to irritating behaviour depending on whether it's parent or partner or child or friend/roommate etc. But the actual things that irritate me doesn't change, like having to clean after another adult, that irritate me to the Nth degree no matter who it is (it's kind of a deal breaker actually). That's what I was getting at, I know what bothers me (not with children but with adults at least) when it comes to sharing a household, so I look out for those things to determine if there are things / habit / behaviour that will be a problem (or even deal breaker) for me.

[Batya33]

What if your partner worked longer hours than you - would you still not clean up things that were his? Does that mean you'd only do your own laundry and your own dishes in the sink?

[IAmFCA]

So much of what annoys us is about how we process the experience. I dated a loud snorer. It took an intentional and private effort on my part to learn how to sleep next to him. What I thought of is, snoring means he is here. Appreciate that, make the snoring a symbol of his presence. It worked. He is long gone from this planet now; if I had been his spouse, those memories would be especially poignant.

 

At a recent business lunch, my lunch partner admitted that he wondered why his (wish there a better term) stay at home wife weren't more attentive to keeping a clean house. Eventually he decided, if he requires a degree of cleaning that is important only to him and not to the 4 other members of his household, then he ought to take responsibility for making it happen. He rises an hour before everyone else and details the kitchen, so that when the house comes to life, all is as he prefers. This is someone with plenty of excess capital and ability to provide cleaning help etc., someone who also is an entrepreneur in an industry that has endured at least two recession cycles since he founded his business. He doesn't use those stressors as an excuse and blame others. He simply takes care of what makes him happy.

 

Taking care of what we require is a form of being responsible.

 

In my marriage, we each failed at this. Now, I am more equipped to succeed and to understand someone else's failure as well as my own. I am not sure it would be a point of conflict the second time around.