Kissing Scenes in Theatre

[Liefde]

Maybe you should take him to a rehearsal or shoot and let him see how it is filmed, if it was you just going at it, it would really not look good on camera maybe if he see it he will understand it is so different from what you two have.

[j.man]

You can't equate those situations with kissing scenes in a movie or play. They are definitely worlds apart.

Stripper and lap dances this entails a woman making money by getting other men sexually aroused. Her income is based on creating sexual fantasies for men that for her are just a way to get paid, but stripping is about becoming a sex object.

 

Kissing one's boss to get ahead that's simply blackmail, bribery, or harassment, if the boss has indicated this action will work; and if it's on the initiative of the employee, it's a form of prostitution -- it's trading a sexual favor for money.

 

These two examples (both of which involve directly making yourself a sex object and commodifying sex) involve personal choices to use one's body as a form of titillation or financial gain. Acting with a scene that has a kiss in it has to do with a craft that involves many different settings, moods, emotions, portraying a story, learning how to become a character, entertaining audiences with drama -- the focus is NOT sex, and a kissing scene is only part of building a story around a set of characters. Nothing to do with objectifying sex. I mean, no one would call a legitimate actress a "sex worker", but a stripper is one.

 

Kissing your boss or shaking your ass for money aren't art forms -- acting is one of the performing arts.

 

So completely different things. The OP's boyfriend asking if she'd be fine if he kissed his manager for a raise would be utterly preposterous, as an analogy. She's not kissing the director for a larger role, she's kissing a colleague as part of a script. If my bf tried to make this equation, I'd break up with him simply because it's so out there, he's clearly not getting what drama is about, and how it's different from interpersonal sexual power dynamics.

 

I think the medical analogy is much more appropriate -- you are seeing someone's body or interacting with it as part of a job that is not sexual, but may involve contact with sexual body parts at one point or another.

 

I would never consider asking my bf who my gynecologist should be. It's my body, my medical choices -- it's medicine, not sex. He sees 100 vaginas a day, like a dermatologist seeing skin all day, and that's not even including all the ones he saw in medical school when they were dissected. If I even thought my bf had a preference, let alone a problem, one way or the other with it, that would be a colossal dealbreaker. That would indicate to me an unbridgeable and unacceptable level of insecurity in my partner. Different strokes for different folks.

This is all your perspective of art.

 

How is telling someone they need to kiss someone if they want a chance at a larger production any different than being told you need to kiss someone to move up a position? Because the actor isn't kissing the director himself? OK, What if the boss says they want to watch while kiss another coworker? Is that kosher? What you yourself call blackmail, bribery, and harassment are totally cool so long as it's for "art?" Personally, I abhor both situations. Again, I don't find anything intrinsically wrong with smooching on stage, but being told you have to in order to progress is not at all on any higher moral ground than it would be in a corporate environment.

 

While we're on the subject, audances can be art, too. Stripping most definitely can be an art, and one that can take substantially more talent and effort than many actors out there have. What's inherently worse between the sexual entertainment of a lap dance than the entertainment provided by a play?

 

Again, I take absolutely no issue with the OP keeping up her acting and kissing people on stage. I don't even take issue with your double standards. They are what they are and everyone has them. I simply don't know where some of you get your moral authority from.

[saluk]

The onstage kiss makes the product being sold better. The purpose of a particular performance is to illicit a particular emotional response from an audience, and a kiss may enhance that effect. It can be staged in other ways, but it's a tool to be used and a very powerful one.

 

The kissing your boss so that he gives you a promotion has NOTHING to do with the function of the work itself. The actor generally has a pretty good idea of what a particular job is going to entail. They have a script and often a contract. It's not like "if you don't kiss you are going to lose this job" - you know before you accept that this is going to be a part of the job. Are you seriously saying you can't see the huge difference in these two situations?

 

I do see more grey area in the stripper situation, where the stripping is a part of the product. But the type of response expected is different. It gets fuzzy if we are comparing a very sexy play with a peepshow; but even then, you are more in the realm of learning about sexual relationships rather than intentionally being aroused. If I were her BF my comfort level would likely vary with how close to that line she gets. If it were a very sexy play that is hard to distinguish from a strip show or a burlesque, it would be more like the issues people have when they date a stripper. I mean, can't she find a more fulfilling less problematic play to be a part of? You don't have to say yes to every job.

 

But then, I guess you don't have to say yes to the jobs that require an onstage kiss either. It would just be a fairly shallow pool, especially cutting down on lead role opportunities.

 

Ultimately everyone has to figure out where their lines are.

[annie24]

I'm not an actress, but I had a friend who was Juliet in high school (lol) and she told me the way they were taught to kiss on stage was open mouth, but no tongue action because it kind of looks sloppy. I don't know if there are any actors here who can say if their stage kisses are "normal" kisses or not.

 

The bond is not formed over the fake elements in the script, or the rehearsed and blocked physical movements and touch that are for the stage; but over the unscripted moments that occur amidst all of the rehearsing; conversations over the cup of coffee in the morning; and walking down to the 7-11 together to pick up snacks when you get a quick break in the afternoon and need some fresh air before the next exhausting rehearsal set.

 

yes, and that is possible in any line of work - coworkers getting coffee, going to a conference together, etc... OP can give up her acting career, take up a new job, and then be sent on work trips with male team-mates, across the country, staying in the same hotel... at some point you just have to trust.

 

and I'm also surprised by the number of men who have complained about their gfs having male gynecologists. I think it's ridiculous, they are medical professionals. I usually only care about who has a close-by office and who takes my insurance and who has time to see me.

[sleepingdonut]

I definitely don't get the gynecologist thing. Personally, I'd have no trouble dating an actress or even a porn actress. And I would hope she enjoys her scenes. I can't imagine wanting anything differently for someone I cared about. From the way I understand it, some kissing between actors/actresses is clinical in the mind, while other times there's actually attraction and passion. I forget which recent movie it was where there was a steamy love scene, and the director essentially said, "Just go at it." I think that's a great way to do it--it probably gets the most realistic scene. But of course, individual actors and actresses will make their own choices on how to approach these things.

 

As far as jealousy goes, the only rational way for me to perceive it is if your partner pulls away from you emotionally and physically. Then there's a one-sided sadness, an emptiness, which gives that stark contrast that one might be able to call jealously. But if your partner loves you, and they have to do a love scene with someone else, why shouldn't you want them to enjoy it? Loving means wanting the other person's happiness, and I don't really believe love is selfish.

[tiredofvampires]

How is telling someone they need to kiss someone if they want a chance at a larger production any different than being told you need to kiss someone to move up a position? Because the actor isn't kissing the director himself? OK, What if the boss says they want to watch while kiss another coworker? Is that kosher? What you yourself call blackmail, bribery, and harassment are totally cool so long as it's for "art?" Personally, I abhor both situations. Again, I don't find anything intrinsically wrong with smooching on stage, but being told you have to in order to progress is not at all on any higher moral ground than it would be in a corporate environment.

 

I think saluk has explained it, but I'll give it another shot.

 

Let's take Juliet. There is going to be a scene where she kisses Romeo -- at least one. That's the way the script has been written, and it's pretty much stayed unchanged since Shakespeare wrote it a few hundred years ago.

 

I'm an actress aspiring to play Juliet, and try out for the role. After auditions, I get the great news: "You've got the role!"

 

I'm overjoyed but I have one issue to clear up with the director: I don't want to do the kissing. I won't kiss Romeo. Why? Because my boyfriend doesn't like the idea.

 

The director says to me, "But that's part of the script. It's integral to your part! You can't play Juliet and not kiss Romeo -- it's PART OF THE PLAY!"

 

So according to you, my response should be, "That's manipulative -- how dare you ask me to kiss my co-star in order to get this part? I HAVE to kiss Romeo? Go screw yourself!"

 

And according to you, if I don't say that, my boyfriend should threaten to go to his female boss (who has been somewhat flirty) and ask her if she'll promote him if he kisses her. Even steven!

 

Those are the same, to you?

 

I agree with saluk that what we call "entertainment" is definitely a matter of grey zones. A porn film is entertainment also, and I think more people would have an issue with their SO participating in porn, even if they were professionally in porn, than if they were a Broadway musical star, movie star, or small town theatrical actor/actress. So it's definitely a matter of degrees. But as long as you're accepting the reality that a director casts an actor in a specific role, with that role already established, surely you see that the part is really not up for negotiation and that's not a matter of coercion or inappropriate power dynamics on the part of the director. If you don't want the role as is, don't audition for it.

 

Which would mean that people like the OP might have to give up challenging and interesting roles that she might want just to appease her boyfriend. He'd be the one deciding which parts she gets. And that's super controlling.

 

I never said though that there's something "wrong" with strippers. You've read that into my post incorrectly. I have absolutely zero moral objections to stripping. And some of them might be fantastic actors, because they're good at creating the image they want. I don't think it takes as much talent to be seductive enough to convincingly convey doe-eyed love to a gullible customer, as it takes talent to recite a monologue full of tears and deep emotion in a movie or onstage, and I'm guessing most people tend to agree. Though it's not a contest. It takes a lot of grit to be a stripper, and it can require creativity, but whether you want to call it an "art" or not, the bottom line is that the entire job is about sexually arousing people, and I don't take it that the OP's line of work involves that. So I'm speaking to that.

 

This is not about high or low moral ground, it's about not making a parallel between an accepted work requirement and manipulative work dynamics.

[abitbroken]

I was in the performing arts so I can speak to this.

 

I think the "don't worry, I am demisexual" is a bit insulting to say to your boyfriend, in his eyes, in regards to this situation or a bit dismissive. Sure, those kisses may mean nothing because you only have eyes for those you have an emotional bond with, but what if you form an emotional bond with your costar? It can happen. Lots of "on stage" pairs end up dating OR there have been actors that have developed strong friendships with cast mates that they don't kiss on stage and therefore an emotional bond. More dating relationships or hook ups have happened due to backstage friendships that develop. You do end up with those people long and odd hours. And even if it doesn't happen on that show, as you tend to see some of the same people from production to production, it may happen later. Guys that didn't seem all that appealing got all that appealing after a working friendship happened, the long hours that inspired deep sharing, etc, and pretty soon the guy that wasn't that dashing in his appearance or might have had a gross habit - but heck he is straight - ends up a woman that is considered a hot commodity as far as looks, popularity, starring roles, etc., because he developed a connection with her over time.

 

I am not saying that this will happen to you, but don't be dismissive of him. If you tell him its all about emotional bond for you - well, there you go. Maybe there is a way that you can have boundaries in the relationship to put him at ease - for example, he gets to meet the costar, he comes to a cast party once in awhile. Sometimes it breaks the ice when he sees the guy is just as embarrassed or not into it as you are, has a girlfriend, is gay, or doesn't seem to treat you in any way that would imply he fancies you. He might wonder why he was so upset about it. On the other hand, you are not going to accept roles that have gratuitous nudity, intense sexual scenes (oh, yes, there are shows that have that). There are plenty of roles where there isn't any kissing or the kissing is not hot and heavy.

 

It may be that the relationship ultimately doesn't work - but I would keep in mind that a LOT of people are only attracted to someone after they know them and form a bond and they don't call it any special sexuality, but rather, sensible and meaningful dating. So keep that in mind, too.

[tiredofvampires]

I think the "don't worry, I am demisexual" is a bit insulting to say to your boyfriend, in his eyes, in regards to this situation or a bit dismissive. Sure, those kisses may mean nothing because you only have eyes for those you have an emotional bond with, but what if you form an emotional bond with your costar? It can happen. Lots of "on stage" pairs end up dating OR there have been actors that have developed strong friendships with cast mates that they don't kiss on stage and therefore an emotional bond. More dating relationships or hook ups have happened due to backstage friendships that develop. You do end up with those people long and odd hours. And even if it doesn't happen on that show, as you tend to see some of the same people from production to production, it may happen later. Guys that didn't seem all that appealing got all that appealing after a working friendship happened, the long hours that inspired deep sharing, etc, and pretty soon the guy that wasn't that dashing in his appearance or might have had a gross habit - but heck he is straight - ends up a woman that is considered a hot commodity as far as looks, popularity, starring roles, etc., because he developed a connection with her over time.

 

As someone else mentioned though, this is possible in any line of work. It's not unique to the performing arts or acting.

 

The boyfriend is jealous about the kiss itself, and that much the OP and you are saying is not what's going to create the emotional bond.

 

So if you're saying, "he has reason to worry -- he's just worried about the wrong thing", well, not trusting your partner in a work environment is not a good prognosis for a healthy or lasting relationship.

[itsallgrand]

Would you be fine with him kissing other women so long as there was not a strong attraction or feeling behind it?

 

You are basically telling him you wish to be able to kiss other men because having kissing as an intimate act that only the two of you do in this committed relationship is not of high importance to you. What matters to you is the emotional commitment, the physical is more of a grey area.

 

That's fine but instead of pushing this I would listen more to what he has to say about why this is a problem for him and not dismiss it as jealousy. Does he see commitment the same way? For some people, physical commitment is as important if not more than the emotional. The reasons why you kiss someone, or otherwise engage in physically intimate acts, matters not so much as whether you do it or don't.

 

Is this going to cause him to feel less emotionally committed to you? It could be a consequence of you 'winning' on this issue.

 

Bottom line is are you compatible or not. Being in love is awesome but it does take time to really find about compatibility.

[ParisPaulette]

Well, I lived in L.A., I had friends who were actresses and actors, I did a stint in the biz myself. Here's the bottom line. You as an actress can get asked everything from pretend you have the IQ of a ten-year-old to being a serial killer and yes you can and will usually get asked to pretend to be someone's wife/lover/a hooker/etc. fill in the blank. And the fact of the matter is you and I know it is all make believe. Your pretend kiss onscreen does not mean you find your coworker attractive any more than you knifing someone in a scene means you really are a serial killer. Or a burglar. Or a crack addict or.or.or. whatever part it is you've chosen or been chosen to play. You are simply stepping into the footsteps of the fictional character whose story you are telling. Bryan Cranston played one of the most stone-cold crazy meth kingpins ever found anywhere and people are not running around saying, "Oh man, do not get on Bryan's bad side or he's going to come after you. And by the way he's a meth dealer." And that's because everyone knows it is make believe, not true, it is simply Bryan Cranston telling a story about a fictional character. He's a story teller. You're a story teller.

 

While I have known women and men who put conditions on what they would or would not do those were usually bigger things like "no nudity" clauses in their contracts or other stipulations they worked out with their agents/directors etc. And yeah sure you can tell your agent, "Don't give me any roles where kissing or romance of any sort is involved," but then where does it all stop? Does your boyfriend next say, "And I don't like it that you wear sexy clothes on film, stop that." And so you tell your agent, "Nothing that makes me look sexy." And then next it's "And no pretending to be anyone else's wife/girlfriend/lover etc." And you say to your agent, "I have to be single with not a single love interest or partner in sight" and on it goes until your agent just stops offering you roles altogether, because how many scripts do you know are about a single woman wearing a shapeless frock in the middle of nowhere with no human contact?

 

Yes, acting is a craft and an art true, but lets face it--you need to get paid somewhere along the line and if you are a paid actress and that's how you make your living then it's kind of important to take roles that the public will pay for. And yeah, that includes kissing, maybe even pretend offing a person or three. It's your particular job and its' what puts food on your table presumably. And if you're good at it you can keep working for some time and it can pay your bills. Hopefully that's you, and if so you need to look at this all for a moment from a business sense. Does it make sense to stop doing something if it makes you money and it's what you've been doing for years and you know how the whole thing works? No. No, it doesn't at all.

 

So the real issue here isn't that you have to kiss onscreen or pretend to do all sorts of things everyone in the real world (hopefully) knows is just make believe, it's that your boyfriend kind of went into this with his eyes wide open. He knew I presume that you are an actress. He knew, I presume, that you've been doing it for a whole lot of years. And he knew, I presume, that it puts food on your table and you enjoy it and it's what you do. So for him to suddenly pop up and say, "I don't like that one thing, you need to stop that" is frankly a bit of a joke. Or controlling as hella, I haven't quite decided which, but since I presume he enjoys everything about you being an actress otherwise this one thing is really not okay for him to be asking you.

 

So the way you explain it to him is this, you tell him it's your job. He went into this with his eyes wide open knowing what you do. That you have no plans to quit unless you want to do so and if he doesn't want to see you kissing onscreen then he doesn't have to watch those movies. And by the way, you didn't really off that girl three films back or bury that treasure or do anything else you've ever pretended to do for a role.

 

And for those people who blithely say, "Well, simply tell a director you don't kiss AFTER you've been given a role," sure you can maybe do that if you're Julia Roberts or Charlize Theron and they want you badly enough for that particular role. Or they can also say, "You know what, I have other actresses who will tell the story the way I want it told, there's the door." And you find yourself off the set like more than one big name actor or actress has yes found themselves being fired.

 

At the end of the day you are an actress, this is your art, this is what you do. The people in your lives have to either be okay with it or they can walk away, but never try to appease them or suddenly stop doing what you do for them. Or you may as well hang up your acting roles right now and walk away from it all together at which point he's controlling you and cutting you off from what you do to make a living and enjoy. And that's always a very bad premise for any relationship. In short, he needs to get over himself or he needs to go. He knew what you did when you two started dating, it should have occurred to him then this was the case, he really has no right to now ask you to stop or change it.

[notalady]

Paris has hit the nail on the head.

 

Also I don't get why he has to know you had or is having a kissing scene at all at any given time? It's not like you need to give him a blow by blow of what's happening at work, which I'm sure most of us don't.

 

Really, it's not like a gyno will go home and tell his wife, you know what honey, I looked at and touched a whole lot of vaginas today!

 

And if he doesn't know if and when it is happening, why and how does he even get jealous? And if without hearing or seeing it, he can't simply exercise some self control and not be thinking about it, and feels jealous just at the THOUGHT of you potentially at any given time while at work, could be kissing someone as part of a scene, then he's got issues.

[blackgnat]

How much kissing are you actually going to be doing? A little bit of making out? A full on sex scene?

 

I don't think that kissing someone because of an acting role should lead your bf to think you are going to fall in love with your fellow thespian. Then again, I'm not him...

 

I've read that in certain movies, the actors who were required to be physical, sexual or even cordial with each other, actually couldn't stand each other in real life. You wouldn't have known this, though, because it's ACTING, and they were THAT good at it, haha.

 

I hope he can get past this-if acting is your passion, you deserve to get good roles and there's a chance that there'll be some kissing of other cast members in your future. You can't be holding his hand every time you have to play a ROLE!

 

Break a leg!