Salty Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Not sure if this should go here or the family section but here goes... I’ve been with my fiancé for many years, we had a long friendship prior and in all that time I have known him he did not have a good relationship with his mother in fact he doesn't speak to her at all. His mom had an affair and left his father for another woman. His younger sister still has a relationship with her but he does not, maybe because he was 20 when the storm erupted and his sister was 14. I know for a fact that he isn’t homophobic, what bothers him was his mother’s attitude when she came out, she did not take the father's feelings into consideration. My future father in law is very bitter towards his ex-wife (Naturally he has earned that right) and is petty enough to still be strict about visitation with his daughter. For example if she visits her mother during his week for say Dinner it becomes a big thing even though the daughter is not in her 20's. He doesn’t speak to his wife at all and will just take it out on the daughter. My fiancé says nothing about this and won’t stand up for his sister and tell his dad to get over it; the affair happened a decade ago- forgive and move on. The reason this bothers me is I am uncomfortable marrying a man and having children with him when he won’t even forgive his own mother it just seems cold. It scares me, god forbid what if I mess up one day, will my children not forgive me, and will he shut me out? My mother is very old I have no father I never had grandparents I want my children to have bother their grandparents but he made it clear I nor his children are to have a relationship with his mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abitbroken Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 If he wants no relationship with his mother, then you need to respect his wishes. He may or may not have a relationship with her in his own time - but it MUST be in his own time. You should not circumvent him to reach out to mom. Things may change when you have a child but it MUST be on his own terms and when he wants to. Also, has SHE every reached out and tried to make amends with her son? You can't appreciate the pain that his father went through and he went through. It's not as simple as "he needs to get over it, its a long time ago". Unlike a wife cheating with another man - when your spouse leaves you for their own gender, you feel the ENTIRE marriage was a lie from the beginning. When someone cheats with the opposite sex, sometimes you could say that the couple fell out of love, stopped trying, made a lapse in judgement - but there is a the chance to try again if both want to and even if they don't - you know that the fact that your spouse desired you emotionally, physically, and sexually, even if it was before you guys fell out of love. The spouses can see what their error was and either salvage it or not. Whereas in this type of marriage, he could have put all his heart and soul into the marriage every single day and did not neglect or fall out of love, and yet the carpet was ripped out form under him. Your boyfriend picked sides and chose to side with his dad who was very much hurt. It doesn't sound like she had feelings for women and talked about it and they amicably divorced. It sounds like she just ran around with a woman and didn't bother to think about transitioning her family through a divorce so that it was a little easier for everyone. If you don't want to marry someone who doesn't have a relationship with his mother, then you should break up. You knew going into it that he doesn't. There could be a time when he tries to forge one, but he is not ready to do that at this time and you need to respect that. You may think he is cold, but she did rip apart his family and that takes a long time for some people to forgive someone for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abitbroken Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 My future father in law is very bitter towards his ex-wife (Naturally he has earned that right) and is petty enough to still be strict about visitation with his daughter. This has had to have not happened "years ago" if the sister was 14 when it happened and dad still has visitation weeks versus the daughter being an adult and deciding for herself. it seems that she is only 15-17 if that is the case. If it was really only 1-3 years ago that this happened, your bf needs a lot more time to get "over this" as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottieflanogon Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I know this is a tough situation, it would be nice if everyone could get along however since they don't I say : You're marrying him so that is where your support should go. I know you just want the best for him but there isn't much you can do. Also some people can just get past something like that. I'd suggest you just accept the situation as it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
journeynow Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 While it doesn't determine everything, I have found it is worth at least looking at a partner's relationship with each parent, and especially the opposite sex parent, as well as how that parent is treated by the other. (I don't know if I made sense there.) I wouldn't have said so when I was younger, we each blaze our own path and are capable of differing from our parents. Now I'm in my 50's, I've seen that patterns *can* get repeated into next generations. I think you are right to consider his relationship with his mother and how his father treats his mother, but also look for ways he might mirror it elsewhere. It may be he needs more time to get over his mother leaving and he sympathizes with his dad. (What was your bf going through at the time leading up to their split and at the time of it? Was he struggling with relationships, did he have a difficult break up around that time perhaps?) From the outside 10 years seems like plenty of time, but from the inside, it's a process, and time isn't so precise. However, maybe he doesn't see it as his role to stand up for his sister or to tell his father to get over it. How does he handle conflicts with you? Are there other red flags happening that make you wonder how important this is, and if it is a red flag or deal breaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostandhurt Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Is this the guy that cheated on you with 6 different girls? (I read all your old threads) Since you were cheated on 7 years ago and went through so much pain you have to know how much it can devastate people. It is his choice to cut his mother out of his life if he chooses to do so. If you can't work this out I think you will find marriage to anyone very difficult. If he is the guy that cheated on you I would be way more worried about that than his relationship with his mother. Lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 Is this the guy that cheated on you with 6 different girls? (I read all your old threads) Since you were cheated on 7 years ago and went through so much pain you have to know how much it can devastate people. It is his choice to cut his mother out of his life if he chooses to do so. If you can't work this out I think you will find marriage to anyone very difficult. If he is the guy that cheated on you I would be way more worried about that than his relationship with his mother. Lost Ew no, I was very young when I dated that other guy and I have long since forgiven him and moved on for my sense of well being. I have cheated and been cheated on, fact is that most of us who get cheated on don't want to admit that people don't cheat when they are satisfied, the cheater is automatically scum, I don't buy it. I was devastated for years when I was cheated on, it wasn't until I forgave and even messed up myself that I have truly understood we are all human capable of messing up hard (lust is powerful) and people like to pass judgement when they are afraid of something happening to them or if it happened to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 This I will have to think deeply about because I do see similarities when it comes to stubborn self righteousness but he treats me very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 No it happened a decade ago, I got the ages wrong, she came out when he was 17 he is 6 years older than his sister she was 11, I thought she was a teenager but wasn't so maybe that's why she is more forgiving. If i divorce a man I won't keep track of visitation once they are over 16. I would like it to be as equal as possible but I wouldn't loos my mind over it, it's petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 Yes, she tried many times. For me it would be easier if my partner left me for the same sex, at least that way it isn't because we fell out of love it is them finding themselves, and it's damaging and a waste of time to hope for a cheating ex to come back, I feel it's better to move on and it would be easier if they were just gay. I imagine things were a bit harder when his mom was growing up to come out as a lesbian, I think she was brave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alli Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 If it's been over a decade it looks like the odds aren't good that he will ever decide to have a relationship with his mother, so if you decide to marry him & have children with him you can be fairly certain that they won't have a relationship with one of their grandmothers. I understand your concerns about his reaction and your fear that if you mess up sometime in the future that he will decide to shut you out completely and maybe do what his father does and punish your children if they were to choose to visit you. However, while this seems like something he should have just gotten over by now you weren't there to see how it all happened. Also, he was a teenager and I'm sure his father's opinion had a lot of weight in developing his outlook on his mother. Does he generally have a chip on his shoulder? Gets offended easily? Cuts other people out of his life permanently? If this is the only time since you have known him that he has done this, I think you can be fairly certain that he did it because he was deeply hurt and angry. Not because he is a person who will write someone off permanently at the drop of a hat. I think abitbroken has a good point about it being especially hurtful when one parent leaves for someone of their own gender. I know a girl who's mother did something similar. She has virtually no contact with her mother now. Granted, this is only one anecdotal case and I don't know any of the other details about how the breakdown of her relationship with her mom occurred. Honestly the thing that I don't like the most in this story is how his father punishes his sister for visiting the mom. She is an adult now and has a right to have a relationship with her mom if she wants. I think it's selfish of the dad to put his own hurt above his daughter's desire to see her mom. But that's besides the point and I wouldn't put myself in the middle of it if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostandhurt Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 It would seem that you view cheating differently than he does and perhaps that is what is troubling you. You cheated in the past and his mother cheated and he has not forgiven her. In the end it is hurt, his family and his to carry or forgive. Either you accept him as he is or not just like he has to accept you. I don't see this as something that will translate into your marriage or children unless you cheat on him. If you believe he is to rigid and not forgiving enough then there is no reason to continue the relationship is there. His feelings on this are valid even if you don't agree with them. Lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButterflyWrists Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 This happened when he was 17 (by the sounds of it?) she cheated on his dad, seeing that heartbreak is difficult and I do not blame him for cutting his mother out of his life. She devestated her family and didn't have the decency to try and explain herself at the time. Yeah to not stick up for his sister is sucky, but maybe he doesn't understand why she chose to have a relationship with their mother. You cannot judge how his dad reacted to his ex wifes affair and continuing hurt over it. You cannot judge your fiance for not wanting a relationship. If you ever feel the need to cheat on your partner you know the risks involved and thus should leave him or work on things. That is what seems to me, to be your biggest worry. If you don't cheat he won't react in the same way towards you. If he doesn't want her involved in his life and his childrens lives that is HIS choice! Respect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abitbroken Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Yes, she tried many times. For me it would be easier if my partner left me for the same sex, at least that way it isn't because we fell out of love it is them finding themselves, and it's damaging and a waste of time to hope for a cheating ex to come back, I feel it's better to move on and it would be easier if they were just gay. I imagine things were a bit harder when his mom was growing up to come out as a lesbian, I think she was brave. Its not so much about the possible of an ex coming back and that dream being shattered - its if they are straight and cheated, you at least know that there is a possibility back at the beginning of the relationship that they WERE in love with you and sexually desired you even if they no longer. Your courtship and nuptials were went into because they were smitten with you and loved you. If you marry someone and they come out as gay, you feel like that you were very much in love, while they faked it or were not and that feeling is harder to recover from for some people versus the feeling someone loved you intensely, then stopped. At least they had at one time. Cheaters are not brave. She would have been brave if she realized that she couldn't hold back any longer - that she had never been attracted to her husband, desired women but didn't act on it and it was time to come clean to her husband and the most fair thing to do for both was to separate and divorce. Handle the aftermath and help her kids through it and then start to pursue women. Instead, she chose to have an affair with a woman and then leave her husband for a woman. If she were a woman cheating with a man, I would feel the same way. My ex had a cheating mother and one of the problems is that some of the kids knew about the affair while it was happening to the capacity they could understand and were accomplices in keeping it a secret. some of the kids knew fully and some didn't - but two hated their mom afterwards because dad busted his rear at three jobs to be able to have a place to live and hear she was running around. She even brought him to a family event and lied about who he was and why he was there. One was in an emotionally incestuous relationship with mom. 30-40 years later, the family did NOT recover from that. Actually, there was a little recovery but it is minimal. It was the biggest public secret, though they conspired to keep it from dad. So don't underestimate the effect that cheating has on a family. I usually agree with watching how someone treats his family. But I also say look at how he treats neutral women, like wait staff, etc, the postal clerk, etc. Does he listen to them and give his attention to them politely? or is he rude or dismissive? Also, if he treats his cousins, grandma, and sister just fine, and its just mom, he may have set a boundary with her. If someone is toxic to you or has hurt you, sometimes it is better to not see them then have a confrontation. I mean, she ruined his senior year of high school and college years by ripping apart his family and he has not recovered from it. It is not forgivable to him yet. it is up to you how you deal with it. Either you accept this man for who he is and the relationships he has, or don't. Decide if its better that he doesn't talk to mom or talks to her and fights. He might be loving himself more by not letting her in yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abitbroken Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 It sounds like this guy takes cheating seriously and it doesn't sound like you have to worry about him because he treats it very harshly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfeeder Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 How many years have you been with your BF, and what do you believe might be the catalyst for you in finding this more disturbing now than say, the first year of your relationship? Has there been a change in your relationship toward marriage, or possibly a change in your own life that makes you question this now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 It's not your place to meddle or expect him to have a relationship with his mother. You aren't him, you weren't there, you have no idea how it affected him. I would support him regardless and leave it alone. If he doesn't want a relationship with his mother, then you need to respect that and not allow yourself or your future children to know her either. His family, his rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgrand Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Ew no, I was very young when I dated that other guy and I have long since forgiven him and moved on for my sense of well being. I have cheated and been cheated on, fact is that most of us who get cheated on don't want to admit that people don't cheat when they are satisfied, the cheater is automatically scum, I don't buy it. I was devastated for years when I was cheated on, it wasn't until I forgave and even messed up myself that I have truly understood we are all human capable of messing up hard (lust is powerful) and people like to pass judgement when they are afraid of something happening to them or if it happened to them. I can see why you are worried. Maybe different values between your bf and yourself?! Can you not talk openly with him about these kinds of things? Is he aware that you have cheated in the past and your views on that? I don't think it's your place to comment on his family nor what he is choosing as far as relating to his mom or not. As a gf, your role is support. Of course, if he does somethign that goes against your values, you need to address that. But does this go against your values? Do you know the full story of why your bf is choosing what he is choosing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abitbroken Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 When mom is not the topic, the sister didn't just see mom, etc., and its a normal day, how does he get along with dad and sis when they are all relaxed and doing something fun, or mom doesn't come up? If he is "there" for his dad - helps him with a project around the house or talks politely to both dad and sis (save for the usual "sibling teasing" etc.), how is the dynamic? And could it be that its less about him, but more about you (since you cheated before, not on him, but on someone else, there is sort of a recognition deep down within you and that is why you are not comfortable.) Families come in all sizes. If he was with mom and it was dad who was a deadbeat and abandoned the family years ago, would you have a problem with him not seeking out his father and just being happy with mom and siblings as his family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 Sexuality is fluid for a lot people, some people are bisexuals and happen to feel a great pull to someone of the same gender later on in life, I don;t think something like this is as simple as I married you for laughs but was really a lesbian the whole time, she loved her husband at one point and maybe still does. The mom is still with the woman after-all, who knows she may only be a lesbian for her. Some cheaters are brave, the act of cheating doesn't make you a coward but it is weakness same as any other weakness. Alcoholics can still be brave even though they drink their families into ruin. I do not think it healthy to repress sexual emotions as strong as Bi-curiosity, I think that's where communication is key. I think in a good marriage you should be able to tell you partner I am questioning my sexuality, when you can't be open of your desires cheating happens. I don't underestimate it, I know the pain, it once shattered me, but i embraced the pain and it made me more open minded and understanding of both sides instead of purely judgmental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostandhurt Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I can see why you are worried. Maybe different values between your bf and yourself?! Can you not talk openly with him about these kinds of things? Is he aware that you have cheated in the past and your views on that?I don't think it's your place to comment on his family nor what he is choosing as far as relating to his mom or not. As a gf, your role is support. Of course, if he does somethign that goes against your values, you need to address that. But does this go against your values? Do you know the full story of why your bf is choosing what he is choosing? Can you answer the questions asked in bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMifune Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Alcoholics are brave when they get treatment and face their demons. Cheaters are "brave" when they end their relationships on the merits of their relationship and not on their desire to screw someone else.....oh wait...cheaters don't do that, they don't have the courage to face the person they're with so they just do what they want without considering how much they're going to hurt someone else. And then they rationalize why it was okay because "sexual emotions are powerful". So what? Your ability to be open with your desires is entirely self-contained. You just effectively said "It's my partner's fault I cheated because of how I felt". LOL. You're too much! Do your boyfriend a favor and dump him now before you cheat on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudgie Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Cheaters are not "brave" just because they are bi or gay. That's stupid. It doesn't matter if you cheat with a man, woman, trans person, or a goat... Cheating is cheating. Yeah, it sucks for this lady that she turned out later to be bisexual. Who cares, she still cheated. Discovering new faucets of your sexuality is not an excuse to cheat. Call me old fashioned, but I think when you marry and commit to someone, that means you don't go around banging others, of either sex. I'm getting pretty freaking sick of this subset of the LGBT community that applauds gay/bi Cheaters, like it's an honorable thing to split up a family and start being a sl__t. It's nasty. This is why I think it's better to marry later rather when young. Young people's sexuality is often fluid and they don't really know what they are into. But when you're older, provided you have explored your feelings and weren't repressed, you have a good idea of what you like and don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Can you answer the questions asked in bold. Yes, he knows of my cheating past and is tolerant of it. I am open about these things and assure him that if he ever has the urge to cheat he can talk to me about it and we will work through it. I believe some people are better suited for monogamy than others and those who aren't shouldn't have to feel ashamed because of it. If say my hormones affect my sexual desire and I just don't want to make love ever I wouldn't expect my husband to just tolerate that, but I do want him to stick by me and support my emotional needs. If my needs aren't being met he is well aware if it isn't something we can talk through I shouldn't have to repress my sexuality. Life is short, an affair to me is when you lie about your needs and use someone else to fulfill them I also think there is something weird about being too jealous and insecure to share if the need ever arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Alcoholics are brave when they get treatment and face their demons. Cheaters are "brave" when they end their relationships on the merits of their relationship and not on their desire to screw someone else.....oh wait...cheaters don't do that, they don't have the courage to face the person they're with so they just do what they want without considering how much they're going to hurt someone else. And then they rationalize why it was okay because "sexual emotions are powerful". So what? Your ability to be open with your desires is entirely self-contained. You just effectively said "It's my partner's fault I cheated because of how I felt". LOL. You're too much! Do your boyfriend a favor and dump him now before you cheat on him. You speak of all cheaters as if they are the same. Who knows maybe one day he will cheat on me, if that is the case I have it in me to understand he is human and makes mistakes. No need to dump him, he isn't damaged goods with a load of baggage and paranoia, if I have urges I can talk to him about it without it becoming a huge problem. We are open that way, but thanks for the catty advice. My deal here is to try and reunite a mother and son so that my children will have a grandmother and my husband won't regret not speaking to his mom when she dies. The best advice I have received so far was to back off and let him forgive her on his own which I think he has the character to do... eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.