Recent trend about online dating

[cingularity83]

Okay so I am a guy so obviously don't browse through guys profiles online so I don't know the type of things they write in their profiles but this is something I noticed and was wondering about.

 

I see a lot of women say things like I would like to meet someone and start out as friends first and then see how things go from there. That got me to thinking. If I start talking to a girl that said something like that I would have it in my head to treat her as a friend, that is no going on dates, won't make any moves to try to kiss her or anything like that. For lack of a better word I would treat her just like I would any other female friend I have.

 

So if you start out as friends with a girl wouldn't that then make it harder and difficult to transition into something more romantic later on?

[CAPS4SAMMEH]

Depends on the people, the chemistry, etc, etc. I've got a couple of friends of mine that ALWAYS start romantic relationships by being friends first. I, on the other-hand am the complete opposite. If I view someone as a friend, that's pretty much it.

 

Though I do have experience being a girl on the internet and it can be really annoying to have guys hit on you constantly. By saying they just want to start off as friends it may be just to avoid the creeps online and get to know the genuinely good guys. If I were you I would treat them kindly, no major flirting until you two get to know each-other better. It could make a transition to relationship more difficult, but maybe you could suggest somewhere down the line that you are looking for a relationship.

[annie24]

I agree with you. Plus the fact that you are meeting from a dating site (and not a hobby site) definitely indicates that it's not all about friends! Otherwise, she wouldn't care if the guy was unattractive to her or if he was too short or whatever.... cause... friends!

 

I interpret that phrase to mean "I go slow." Don't expect to jump into bed with her on the 3rd date.

[Reflections11]

 

I interpret that phrase to mean "I go slow." Don't expect to jump into bed with her on the 3rd date.

 

This. She doesn't really want you to treat her just as a friend. It's more that she wants to judge if there is chemistry between you.

[IAmFCA]

It means, let's create a connection as daters before we create a connection as lovers. It means she wants to be courted.

[alli]

I generally prefer to date people that I already know. I'm really not crazy about the idea of going on a date with someone I've never met before. Generally I like to know them already from work or school as well as socially where a big group of people goes out to dinner or something. I just feel like you already have a better shot of it working out if it's with someone whom you have already seen each other when both of you are not on your "best behavior" as you are on a date and you still like each other.

 

Maybe these women have a different idea if they are on dating websites though. Socializing in a large group is harder when you have no mutual friends. To me it seems kind of silly to call it "friends" when you are both on a dating website and are obviously getting together with the intention to find someone to date, so my vote for these people is also that what they really mean is "go slow".

[cingularity83]

I understand the underlying implication for why most women say this is because they want to take things slow and avoid situations where things move too fast and too quickly but

 

Say you meet a nice girl that said this in her profile and you start talking and basically treating her as a friend and the friendship blossoms & then 1-2 months go by. Do you just go up to her one day and say "oh yea by the way..... I know we've been friends now but remember we met on a dating websites? Let's take it to another level!!"

 

And then if you've spent weeks or months building up a friendship and it blossoms into a great friendship wouldn't it then be risky to lose that friendship and time/ energy invested in trying to turn it into something romantic?

 

Also say during this time when you guys are building up a friendship & hang out and do things together like say go out and grab a bite to eat, you can't really call it a date can you because once again you're being friends first.

 

I don't know, I'm not in any situation like that but just find it interesting. I understand the reasoning behind it, but yet can't quite grasp the whole idea. If I want to be friends with someone first then that means that initial attraction just isn't there. If that initial attraction is there then we can date while simultaneously building up a friendship..... And can still take things slow. And of course taking things slow is really just code words for lets not have sex right away (which is the right way to do things anyway)

[cingularity83]

@ reflections11

 

See that's where things get confusing really quickly....... If you're saying one thing but then really meaning something else. If a girl writes something in her profile I try to take it at face value and if that's not what she really means then we are already starting off miscommunicating and well............ We know how that usually goes huh

[Jeffbobo]

Well, I'm a guy and have met a lot of women through online dating. Many of the women that I have dated moved quickly (very fast women). So... I updated my profile to say that I'd like to start as friends so we could build a relationship. The result? More fast women. Lol!

 

With dating in general, looks get you in the door and personality keeps you.

 

I put "Stsrt as friends" in my profile to mean:

 

"If I send you a message, I think your cute, I've read your profile and would like to slowly take the time to see if we have what it takes to make it for the long haul."

 

It's called "online dating", not "online friending" for a reason. My take is, if your looking for strictly friends, then join a special interest group.

[Realitynut]

In a book...i think it's Men are from Mars....Men need that physical element right off the bat. Then it goes to the deeper level. (Personality, intellect) With women....it's the 'mental' thing that gets womens attention (generally)....their personality get's the chemistry going. (generally speaking). We all have met the guy who is drop dead gorgeous (or woman) but once you get to know them...it's a snooze fest. So for a woman, after you've caught her eye through your dazzling personality (some call it 'friendship')....then eventually kiss her....then the romance can begin.

 

After all...you've heard it said....be lover's with your best friend.

 

The guy I'm seeing now...it started off as friends. Flirty friends. He liked me. I didn't like him. Long story...but didn't kiss him for 10 months. Wasn't attracted to him physically. The kiss...WOWSERS! Then we had a rocky...VERY ROCKY...next year. Broke up numerous times. Now we're inseparable. It took almost losing me, for him to decide to change.

 

He came to my house 3 weeks ago...and said: I miss my best friend. And I don't want to lose her.

[Realitynut]

@Jeffbobo....lol. The guy I've been seeing for over 2 years...asked me out on a dating site. I ignored him. Didn't like his 'looks'. We met through link removed. I was a member....and he joined and went zip-lining. Then Hiking. Now we're into kayaking. I told him i would never have 'dated' him from the online dating site! lol MUCH better luck meeting someone and getting to know them on a 'friend' level. His looks are still nothing to write home to mom about...but he made me laugh! And he loves me.

[IAmFCA]

Oh yay! I didn't know! That's great news.

[IAmFCA]

For folks who think friendship and sexless dating is murky: it isnt, not at all, if you mind your manners.

 

When you are dating someone, it is with a purpose.

 

When you are building a friendship, that is a different sort of purpose.

 

Keep your purpose in mind, and your actions change.

[Lucia Amman]

I honestly don't know what the trend is. I don't like dating for the purpose of finding a relationship. I've never really done it like that... I do know I saw some guys with wanting 'to be friends first' and honestly: I clicked them away. Block. I can't stand that phrase! You're on a dating site! Not a friendship site. So for me it was a total no-go. Even if I was to be seriously looking for a relationship I would let the 'friendship first' slide. To me it says they aren't serious enough and don't exactly know what they truly want either. Get your act together before you meet new people. I like to hang out with people that KNOW what they want, what the purpose behind our date is and follow through if we both like each other. No need for fuzziness

[Fudgie]

I take "friends first" to generally mean "take it slow". Most of the times, it doesn't mean that they are actually looking for friends, it means that they want to take it slow and get to know someone before jumping into physicality or whatever.

[Lucia Amman]

I wonder, if someone does want to take it slow, why don't they write down just that?! 'I want to take it slow'. It reads much better than 'friends first'.

[Fudgie]

I wonder, if someone does want to take it slow, why don't they write down just that?! 'I want to take it slow'. It reads much better than 'friends first'.

 

Agreed 100%. Unfortunately, not everyone is as careful with their words.

[lostandhurt]

I often do research looking at guys profiles to see what the competition is and to see what they are writing and if I see something good I steal the idea and make it my own. I don't copy it but I do take the idea and run with it.

 

I was once told to ignore half of what you read on most women's profiles. I don't know if that is true but I have found that what is written isn't always what they mean or do.

Basically what you are reading is what the ladies mentioned above. I will not sleep with you until we have made a connection. That doesn't mean there will be no flirting, hand holding or kissing sometime during the connection phase.

They are not looking for a buddy, they are looking for a relationship of some kind so treat it as such.

 

Besides who wants to be in a relationship with an enemy? We all want to be friends and lovers in a relationship don't we?

 

Being blunt on a profile can turn people off so they are subtle about it.

 

BTW If I had to wait 1 month to kiss a girl I was dating I would be rethinking the whole thing. I don't ever want to be with someone that I have to convince to like me or find me attractive.

 

Lost

[mfan]

I see a lot of women say things like I would like to meet someone and start out as friends first and then see how things go from there.

 

My thoughts are:

1. A "pre-excuse". . . so that when she rejects you later she can say "I told you in my profile I don't really want a relationship" (when she really means she wasn't attracted to you)

 

2. To keep out guys who are "only looking for one thing" - maybe the "friends first" dissuades those men from pursuing her

 

3. She's still in a relationship, or on the rebound, and just wants to see what possibilities are out there

 

4. (rare) she's a nice girl and wants to take things slow.

[cingularity83]

My thoughts are:

1. A "pre-excuse". . . so that when she rejects you later she can say "I told you in my profile I don't really want a relationship" (when she really means she wasn't attracted to you)

 

2. To keep out guys who are "only looking for one thing" - maybe the "friends first" dissuades those men from pursuing her

 

3. She's still in a relationship, or on the rebound, and just wants to see what possibilities are out there

 

4. (rare) she's a nice girl and wants to take things slow.

 

 

 

That's what makes the whole situation a sticky one because then you have to start guessing which type she is rather than using more of that energy focusing on getting to know her.

[cingularity83]

After all...you've heard it said....be lover's with your best friend.

 

yes its true that's whats been said but also..... that process is something that takes time. True friendship isn't built in days or weeks.

[Helpexpressme]

Because if she specifically states "I want to go slow" does not sound sexy or attractive. Saying "Friends First" throws a lot of ambiguity out there to hook you.

 

But it works less in her favour anyways, because some guys take it as she's keen to "hook up", she's easy, she's not looking for serious.

 

Say what you mean ladies.

[tiredofvampires]

This is kinda a mega-post because the OP touches on a theme that's been recurrent for me in my own journey with dating and relationship-forming...

 

I say "I want friendship first" and when I say "friendship", it's not "code" for anything. Maybe I'm the odd one out. I may not be speaking for all women who write, "want to be friends first", and I suspect it means different things for different women. There's no one interpretation of that, so I caution men out there not to try to impose one. Hence, I can only speak for myself and what I mean.

 

This is something I've taken directly from one of my profiles:

 

"LOVE IS A FRIENDSHIP THAT HAS CAUGHT FIRE. It is quiet understanding, mutual confidence, sharing and forgiving. It is loyalty through good and bad times. It settles for less than perfection and makes allowances for human weaknesses." -- Ann Landers

 

I love that quote, and especially the bolded. What does that mean?

 

It means that something came before -- and catalyzed -- the bursting into flame.

 

It also means that we have taken a chance on something that was not initially motivated by "sparks" but of its own accord and allowing, became a flame.

 

To me, it means that what we are building is FIRST a place of mutual safety and trust, support and deep care that allows us to share in a way that can operate independently from the thought, "Is this a turn-off? Am I not impressing this person with my sexy aura?" We can say things to eachother and feel accepted for who we are, even with the "blemishes" or less-than-impressive disclosures in the process of getting to know.

 

Let me say that again: we build a bond where we are accepting eachother for who we are and appreciating and respecting that. And with that, enjoying the way we enrich eachother's lives. Feeling invested in having eachother's backs.

 

That, to me, is the definition of a friend (a very close one anyway -- there are different levels of friendship, but if it becomes romantic, I'm striving for the closest kind). Your friend is your cheerleader, your confidente, your partner in crime (now a cliche in the dating site lingo).

 

That is what I, personally, need to build as a foundation with a man that I start exploring a connection with -- and it absolutely does NOT preclude my feeling physical attraction to him from the get-go, and flirtation (after all, I have gently flirted with men I will never see again). Sure, I can feel attracted to him, but it's not running the show (and when I find that happening, I actually become vigilant with myself, haha). In the formative stages, I prefer to just observe my feelings than act on them, whether that's strong immediate attraction, or disappointment that I'm not more attracted, or uncertainty. You might call this "going slow", as the friendship element I have described won't happen overnight -- it's a process of growing together to be more and more attuned. However, the tempo somewhat depends on the rate of how deep I can go with a given man, so descriptors like "slow" and "fast" are relative, too.

 

But in that meantime, and with those channels of communication feeling open and free to me (and why isn't communication itself more sexy to people, I wonder?), I'm developing a stronger and stronger affinity for him as a man and sexual being. If he doesn't appeal to me that way at first, if those other elements are ripening, I might become very attracted to him as a lover in due time. I don't need a "spark" at first sight for one to develop (which HAS happened).

 

So for me, I don't have to start out with a preconceived notion of "what my goal is." In fact, to me that feels one-track and stifling. It also creates a lot of performance anxiety, as all goal-driven paradigms tend to. I don't allow for any sort of transformation or surprises to occur with that mindset. That lessens my field of chances to see something blossom that I might not have expected, and they do say, love finds you when you're not looking. While I find that a bit corny and only partially true, it's meaningful to me in the sense that if I am viewing every man I meet as falling into one of two separate "categories" with labels -- "friend" vs. "lover", I am really drawing a hard line where there's a continuum, and a fluid one at that.

 

I'm largely uninterested in the whole, "what this is" until it takes its unique turn of fate. Be there initial sexual tension, or lack of. Either signal could prove deceptive.

 

And to be honest, I've found it kind of sad that there's a general mentality about investing in friendship that it's sort of a waste of one's time. I'm a busy person so there's only so many people you can have in your life before you're spreading yourself thin...but I'm always open to something of quality, and it's disheartening to me that so many people seem to be driven by the purpose of finding a mate, it's like there's no breathing room for anything else to arise that could add to one's life. I get it...but it's still very much like making love a "to-do list" item.

 

Consequently, I've found men who are game to JUST be friends with, platonically, from dating sites, even though neither of us was planning such. A couple of men turned out not to be okay with this in the end, but a couple have been (btw, I am also able to maintain a worthy friendship with a man if I find him attractive, but he doesn't feel the same). Interestingly enough, even though in most cases I was not attracted to those men and couldn't see myself becoming physically attracted to them, the fact that they were open and didn't have a hardcore agenda that needed to be fulfilled actually made them more desirable to me that way. That attitude for me is SEXY, and therefore, they became sexier to me. Paradox as that is.

All comes down to things that are sexy to ME -- a sexy man is one who isn't blinded by convention. He's a freethinker -- he's not chained by protocol. He can function in society with ease because he respects that certain "norms" lubricate our interactions, but in his own heart and mind, he is more interested in having a dynamic and authentic sense of communion with someone than trying to impress them. And also, a man who is in touch with his small head but not governed by it is a sexy man.

 

Typical dates ("wooing"), though, don't lend themselves to that; we are heavily moderating ourselves. And trying to impress (just an extension of the half-truths on profiles), and keeping a lot of many sides to us hidden. I'm not saying you should spill everything out at once with ANYONE. There's still a gradual phase-in of intimacy.

 

So OP, the questions you're asking about "dating" make sense in a hard and rigid format of expectations and standard operating procedures. But there are other approaches.

 

As an illustration of the conceptual pitfalls: If I'm talking with someone I find interesting and attractive at a coffee shop, is that not a "date"? No one would call it a "date", until it is pre-planned, right? So if I meet someone organically with no premeditation at a coffee shop and we talk for 3 hours non-stop, that's not a date. But if I contact someone on a dating site and we decide to meet at a coffee shop and we end up talking for 3 hours, that IS a date, right? It was the same exact thing, but in one case you're labeling it a "date" and in the other case, you're not. In one case, you're going with the EXPRESS INTENTION of cultivating a ROMANTIC SPARK, and in the other case you're not. But either situation could turn into a friendship and nothing else, a friendship with some benefits, or a love relationship with friendship. So how valuable is it to say, "this is a DATE","this is not a DATE", "this is (supposed to be) ROMANTIC", "this is NOT"?

 

So this is how the definitions fall apart for me and seem silly. And arbitrary. In the end, the only thing that matters is the quality of the interchange, not the where and why and how is it going, and is it going fast or slow on some meter reading.

 

The unfortunate thing about dating sites is that they've taken the element of spontaneousness and surprise out of the equation. Yes, they are called "dating sites" not "friendship sites" because they are targeting an audience looking for a specific kind of relationship (sexual/romantic). In doing so, it has stripped the process of the fluidity of real-life encounters and their infinite possibilities, by stamping them with a "desired outcome" at the get-go. That's why I consider them a bit like meat markets -- just a step up from meeting people at bars. So I have a love-hate relationship with them. I love that we can now meet so many people we wouldn't otherwise. But I hate the artificiality and the narrow focus. While I appreciate the intentions, it's unapologetic people-shopping. It makes me kind of want to revolt -- with a like-minded guy.

 

"You want to make 'friends' on a "dating" site?" Shame shame, you're looking in a hardware store for candy, tsk tsk! Go to the "friend" store for your "friends" and the "love" store for your "love". Nothing seems more laughable and alien to me, quite frankly.

 

That's why I have my profile on at least one site that is less mainstream and caters to people who leave the objective wide open, to see what evolves. So you can indicate on that site any number of these selections of what you're looking for: "friends, LTR, tantric partner, travel companion, marriage, open relationship, curious." They even have "celibate relationship" as an option. I have seen more than one profile -- MALE profile -- ONLY indicating "friends." And in one of those cases, the guy said that he was very happy with his life as it was, but if he should find a soul connection with someone that becomes more, he would also welcome that. That is not usual, that's for sure, and some women would actually be put off by that -- but it's not so rare that it's like a UFO sighting.

 

I've even seen "friends" only on the big OKCupid.

 

I will add though, that even as I try to make the very contrived (i.e., the dating site format) less contrived to suit me, usually if a man does not seem to share some very elemental, kindred things with me that I can see blossoming into a wonderful friendship (if romance is not in the cards), I won't bother trying to make a connection happen JUST in order to have another friend. So I'm pretty selective that way. I have to see some potential for a base friendship, if nothing else, to keep communicating.

 

It really all depends on how important these labels are to you, and how structured approaches matter to you in your dating style. And some people only open up emotionally after they've been sexual (often this is the case with men more than women, which is why I think there's this whole question/mismatch of objectives to begin with), so their physical intimacy needs unlock the door to greater friendship. If both people are operating in that vein, that can be okay, but it can also lead to a lot of drama and crash-and-burns. So it runs the risk we see a LOT of here. It's a risky and unrewarding angle for me, personally. Emotional intimacy comes before physical, not the other way around. Horse before the cart and all that.

 

OP, I think you're making this harder and thornier for yourself than it really is. If you want to escalate with a woman who has become your friend, and you feel her wanting it to escalate too, it will not be awkward and abrupt. It will just flow in that direction naturally. Great things announce themselves -- you don't have to force pegs into holes when it's right.

 

So your questions, OP, like, "how would I transition, if we were friends?" is all in the abstract. In real life, you'll know when and how that works by actually being in that situation to guide you. As for "ruining a good friendship" with sex, that's another one of those things that you can't really figure out until you move forward with a good balance of head and heart. If there is a high chance of long-range romantic compatibility, which you have discovered over the course of the friendship (emotional intimacy), and the attraction has grown enough, it might be worth the risk. There is no love without risking anyway. So that question is for the most part a non-concern.

 

There are just an infinite number of ways people can come to love eachother romantically. Again, I think it's sad that online dating has underscored a limited the mentality, overall. There is a good deal of categorizing and prescriptive-minded approaching that happens the old fashioned way, too, but I think that's more about personality types and how they see relationships than what falling in love means and all the ways it can happen.

 

I like to keep the adventure and mystery of life's twists and turns alive.

[tiredofvampires]

By the way, OP, you say you're a guy so "obviously" you don't check out other guys' profiles. I'm a woman and I check out other women's profiles, to see how other women have gone about it, what my competition is, etc.

 

So it's not such an "obvious" thing as you've indicated and I think it'd be interesting and eye-opening for you to check out men's profiles. I recommend it.

[saluk]

Excellent post ToV!

 

For me a relationship is a series of progressions:

 

friendship -> romance -> commitment -> sex

 

The items on the left are higher in value and lower in risk; with the items on the right being riskier and less valuable. In essence, if someone isn't worth my time as a friend, I don't have a desire for the others. So it's the "most valuable" in a sense. Romance entails a more passionate type of friendship, where two lives become more merged, and there is a lot of time spent together, and emotional closeness. It's riskier to lose that. Also, as you move to the right, it becomes much harder or impossible to move the other direction. If I skip steps, or my head is in a different step than we are actually in, it causes a lot more angst. We have a romance, but then I realize I don't even LIKE the person (we never fully established friendship) and we have to break up. Commitment without establishing that you can even work as a couple. Or sex without commitment - I think it's clear where this can go wrong (if you are looking for a relationship).

 

It flows naturally from one to the next. The few relationships I've had have worked this way. The other failed attempts seem to all end up with one or the other of us in a different phase or pushing for a phase we aren't actually ready for.

 

Friends first is pretty easy offline. You know that you get along with someone already from some other context, and then you ask them out (stating intentions to progress to romance) and see if that can work. With online it's hard because you are kind of trying to jump into romance AND friendship at the same time; and with someone you don't even know. During my dates from online, I feel like we are constantly shifting gears from one to the other. It's messier than I'd like.

 

But at the end of the day life is messy. So even though I have a plan that I think of as "ideal", I wouldn't say it's necessarily a plan I follow intentionally. Either way, you just kind of have to embrace the weirdness and go with it