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Out with the old, in with the now


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Asking to meet friends and be this much a part of someone's personal life after just one month of dating is a bit over the top I think. These are things that I would start thinking about about 2-3 months in. The fact that he is getting this type of request this early on speaks to his choices in women not being that great....except for you of course. These women were needy...he knows that's not his thing but he hasn't figured out how to consistently pick less needy women, like yourself.

 

Agree completely.

 

I sense he has been studying this about himself.

 

Example of recent text:

That's good because I am trying to be more open and warm - sometimes I really f that up

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And that's the main issue - he "tries" rather than "doing" and on your end you settle for "try".

 

 

Apologies for prior repost. Traveling, not clear what my phone is doing.

 

Yes, that is my pattern. Agree. So that post was last week; previously, he talked about how little infomation he shares, and then he began sharing more. His words aren't empty. Last night he requested I text once I got in, something he's never done before.

 

Was it October or November that I forced myself to break up with him, emotionally? You were right then, that I was too involved relative to his level of involvement. I don't feel that way now. Also, my words and actions are consistent. I limit my behavior with him physically, practically, emotionally.

 

It is clear to me that I am open to alternatives. I haven't found anyone even for a second date - the one who ended up in the hospital included - as he has revealed more about himself since then. I'm not comparing these guys to slushie, they fail on their own relative to my needs/wants. Lack of attraction, lack of ambition, lack of book smarts, lack of boundaries, lack of ethics, lack of boundaries.

 

I have a first meet next week with someone... former diplomat, now an entrepreneur, chose a neighborhood I like, worldly but dry conversationalist. I'll have to see what happens face to face.

 

For context: I've got brains, ethics, similar taste, and attraction in one package - (and yes, he gets the same with me, but I'm not stating his values for him). That doesn't happen that often. I am motivated to protect that option while I source other options. If I cut him free, then so be it.

 

That's not settling. That's maximizing my options.

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Completely agree.

 

Yes. This is absolutely true.

 

I do think it's appropriate that I keep looking for a proper partner, in as much as I haven't found one.

 

Another point for context: this month, I am available for a weekend date twice. Next month, possibly once only. I don't need a lot. In another sense, I need extra: a connection that is based on an appreciation of each other deepest qualities, so that it will last while life happens.

 

This pace is fine with me, so long as I continue to sense his sincerity. Slow is the only way I get a sense for character.

 

I noticed recently a few weeks ago - that my attraction to Slushie had shifted from lustful to a more quiet attraction. I think that's the feeling I am going for - a growing excitement about what someone is made of.

 

Learning to date me is easy. I can overcome that if need be. Character is hard. I screwed that up with MWFN, and with my exH. I didn't appreciate the importance of some things. With slushie, his character seems firm.

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I haven't slept in two days guys, I'm a little cockeyed and extra verbose.

 

All I know about anyone is what I have now, and slushie isn't available. I get it. So does he.

 

That's why he doesn't treat me in bf/gf fashion and that's why I don't offer him gf treatment, and he doesn't request it.

 

If he limited my options, I'd be in a different position. But he doesn't. At some point I may choose to limit them but nobody has inspired me to do that by a long shot.

 

Thank you for caring and for protecting me.

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What is it that you want, ITIC?

 

Long term relationship? Cohabiting? Marriage?

 

That is a great question. Here is why: my answer has become both more clear and less facile.

 

I would like to find a man about whom I feel marriage is possible.

 

I am unsure whether the actual "marriage" part is important. I am not even sure if cohabiting is important; I suspect it isn't. However, I won't have us depend on one residence without us making a marriage commitment. And I would enjoy living with my best friend. So marriage seems like the goal, but its secondary.

 

Does that make sense?

 

I have no timeline. Kids aren't an impediment. They would welcome the right man into the fold.

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And that's the main issue - he "tries" rather than "doing" and on your end you settle for "try".

 

This^

 

 

And ITIC, while he's running his mouth off, you're meeting men...but you're not open to them. How can you be? You're head is all over Ice.

 

Some men are "slow daters". But most of the men I've met that are "slow daters" are actually just not that into the person they're dating...and they're stringing them along until someone better comes along.

 

He *might* change is mind about you, and make you an actual prospect...but it seems very unlikely at this point. If you really like someone...you don't want them going out and meeting other people. You won't tell them to go out and date others. That's not the actions of someone that's into you. That's the actions of someone apathetic.

 

And I know you see the patterns of sticking around hoping to change a mans mind by being friends....but when are you going to see it and change it? It's painful to watch

 

we like you ITIC...why are you settling for scraps when you deserve so much more?? (and that's rhetorical- I don't want to hear three paragraphs of you justifying how he's trying)

 

This is not rhetorical. How would you feel about your daughter dating someone for 6 months and he told her "he liked her, but needed to go slow because he's still healing from a past relationship" and that he's "trying to be a better partner for her...but she should still date others while he works on himself." ? It's bull***t! It makes me mad that he says this drivel to you...and it breaks my heart that you accept it.

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Do you feel that Slushie is someone that you could build on that with? Can he melt enough to allow that to happen? More importantly: how long are you willing to wait to see if that'll happen?

 

Yes - based on what we've shared so far.

Yes - I've seen him soften remarkably, in moments / on phone / with kids / in adversity.

No clue - until staying involved presents a net negative.

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This^

 

 

And ITIC, while he's running his mouth off, you're meeting men...but you're not open to them. How can you be? You're head is all over Ice.

 

Some men are "slow daters". But most of the men I've met that are "slow daters" are actually just not that into the person they're dating...and they're stringing them along until someone better comes along.

 

He *might* change is mind about you, and make you an actual prospect...but it seems very unlikely at this point. If you really like someone...you don't want them going out and meeting other people. You won't tell them to go out and date others. That's not the actions of someone that's into you. That's the actions of someone apathetic.

 

And I know you see the patterns of sticking around hoping to change a mans mind by being friends....but when are you going to see it and change it? It's painful to watch

 

we like you ITIC...why are you settling for scraps when you deserve so much more?? (and that's rhetorical- I don't want to hear three paragraphs of you justifying how he's trying)

 

This is not rhetorical. How would you feel about your daughter dating someone for 6 months and he told her "he liked her, but needed to go slow because he's still healing from a past relationship" and that he's "trying to be a better partner for her...but she should still date others while he works on himself." ? It's bull***t! It makes me mad that he says this drivel to you...and it breaks my heart that you accept it.

 

Thank you Faraday. I appreciate your strong words. I do.

 

I don't agree with all of it. I am not ready to be in a gf/bf situation with him, not unless and until he demonstrates a desire to take on more responsibility. All a man has to do is (1) capture my initial interest, and (2) ask me out. So far, I've had one or the other, but not both. I have been watching myself to make sure I am interested... I am! Two Class A clingers and 1 narrowly-missed-indictment... NEXT.

 

That said, the overwhelming theme from all is to make sure I am not misunderstanding what's going on here. To resolve that, I will check in with him. I am pretty sure he wouldn't bother getting to know me if he didn't think there were potential for something long term to grow out of it. That is how he positioned it in the first place. I will confirm.

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Talking is great, but it's not the solution. Talk is cheap. Action expresses priority. All you have to do is look at his actions.

 

It's your life. It's your journal. You are free to do what you want.

 

But I'm telling you...it's going to be the same story in 6 months from now unless you change things. Not by talking to him. By showing him with your actions that you aren't interested in a hot/cold relationship, where you pretty much have to beg for attention. By talking to him, again, you are showing him with your actions that as long as he says nice things, you'll stick around indefinitely to be an ego boost. Because that's what role you're playing to him

 

But it's your call.

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Talking is great, but it's not the solution. Talk is cheap. Action expresses priority. All you have to do is look at his actions.

 

It's your life. It's your journal. You are free to do what you want.

 

But I'm telling you...it's going to be the same story in 6 months from now unless you change things. Not by talking to him. By showing him with your actions that you aren't interested in a hot/cold relationship, where you pretty much have to beg for attention. By talking to him, again, you are showing him with your actions that as long as he says nice things, you'll stick around indefinitely to be an ego boost. Because that's what role you're playing to him

 

But it's your call.

 

I don't see what you see.

 

I don't see me begging for attention. I don't initiate, as I've said before. After seeing him on sunday, I said nothing until he started up a conversation on tuesday. He started it up again tonight. Not empty sunshine stuff, but the stuff of life - long day, kids home, news about the EPA, how he and I are having a similar work experience. That's regular keeping in touch stuff. Not begging on my part (or his), not blue sky or future talk on his part (or mine).

 

Also, it's not the same now as it was three months ago, much less 6 months ago. When we met we dismissed each other as casual. Then i dumped him twice for being too cavalier with me. Then he backed off and so i had to do the same. I doubt very much it will be the same 6 months from now. It could be anything including NC, but it won't be the same.

 

Priority - ha, nope. My kids, my friends, my work - they all come before him as well. As do dates with others, because they are on my calendar before he plans.

 

I am a priority enough that when my calendar was full, he shifted his to make a lunch date with me, rather than let a week pass without seeing each other. When he had two hours between work and kids this week, he took me to dinner. I didn't ask for that. When his kids left sunday, he put me back on his calendar. His actions indicate some level of priority.

 

I don't think everyone gets serious the same way. Or even, the same way each time. If he is taking his time to decide what he wants and with whom, well, I'd rather have someone who takes that decision seriously than someone who commits early and often.

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I see unavailable then, and I see unavailable now. You "block" him in frustration on a regular basis because He isn't able to give you what you need. It was like that when you met him.

 

I hope it is different in 6 months.

 

I'll butt out. It's your journal. I really do wish you luck ITIC- I want you to be happy. Just...do yourself the favour of reading through the last 6 months of journal. It's up and down daily....sometimes multiple times a day. So either you're really unhappy with him....or you're really unhappy with yourself. Either way...it's something to think about.

 

Xoxo

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And that's the main issue - he "tries" rather than "doing" and on your end you settle for "try".

 

I think this kind of sums up you ITIC, for better or worse, in all the stuff I've read in your journal whether it's about MWFN, or ice or whoever. I get that you can appreciate the good/strength in people, but at the same time, you don't walk away from people who don't give you what you want or need. But I'm sure you're getting something out of it, I don't understand it but I get that we all want different things, so I hope whatever you get from these guys make you happy, because to me that's all it's about, being happy

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Thank you everyone for your comments.

 

I would agree with all if I were making myself Slushie's gf, in thought or in deed. I'm not. I am ready for him to want that and work for it, but he isn't. So yes, there is a difference in emotiomal availability. I am using that difference as an opportunity to fill my time with my life, which was one of my goals.

 

A larger point has been raised, that of bouncing up and down in terms of being satisfied/happy etc.

 

I use this as a space to pull thoughts out and explore them. Recently, I have been thinking (not in here) whether I think this stuff up as a form of entertainment. I think there is a strong argument for that. I read magazines etc less, and hang out in here more.

 

As I have been choosing relationships that are less dramatic, perhaps I am replacing drama with others with drama in my own head. Maybe the next thing for me to do is to NOT journal in here, counterintuitvely. Train myself to spend more time in other ways.

 

I am fundamentally happy. I think, on the main, this Slushie thing works for me precisely because it is not very intense. I have lots of room to grow and strengthen the foundations in my life, while having a man to think about. And that's a nice thing. I have grown a lot since meeting him, I can tell. I no longer want his validation (or anyones, so far as I can tell). I am taking ever more responsibility for my health. I have accepted a leadership position in my industry. I have learned to screen guys in one date.

 

Haha how long can I go NC with myself? Likely... not long at all. I have learned so much here!

 

Said another way

 

This has been a dumping ground for my anxiety. Maybe now I am perpetuating anxiety by filling my time with this journal, rather than using the journal to keep anxiety from filling my time. Tail may be wagging dog.

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You're allowed to use your journal however you'd like- it's your journal...and I wasn't meaning to make you feel judged in it. I was just attempting to show you a pattern.

 

I love going back through my journal- I can see how much things in my life have changed. I can see how the beginning with J was riddled with doubt and anxiety (due to him traveling, and not being dependant on me for external validation- which was the opposite of every guy I had dated)..and how through his actions, he taught me to trust him. He taught me not to make drama. I was used to it in my prior relationships too...and now...there's never any drama...so sometimes I get bored and need to make it too...but I've learned to do it in different ways now. It's been neat seeing things change.

 

And I can look at my old journal on a different forum, and I can see how far I've really come. And my old patterns. And the advice I took...and how some of it was said to me for years before I finally took it.

 

Self reflection is a good thing.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is...if you want things like this with slushie, I'll shut up and support you. I like you. But keep journaling..,.because one day, you'll look back and realize how far you've come, and you'll be proud. And it's also good to have a written account- our memories are tinted by our present emotions, but writing things down as they happen doesn't allow for that. When I read my journal, I can feel how sad/annoyed/happy I was...regardless of how I feel in that moment. It's good clarity.

 

Anyway. If you're happy ITIC, I'm happy for you. I'll seriously shut up.

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Thank You Faraday, and With Love too. I value the input that comes from each of you and enjoy your virtual company.

 

I see HUGE strides in how I interact with men. HUGE. And the skills spill over to work, women, kids, myself. Everywhere. That makes me hugely grateful.

 

With Slushie, there's nothing to be unhappy about. He is clear who he is, where he is at, and his respect for me is clear too. It's my own old habit of looking to hitch my rhythm to someone else's. It's like, I think he's about to start pedaling, and I think I am going to hop on the bike, and then I have to correct myself.

 

I guess what I'm saying is - the real issue is me. I want to keep building my independence, my satisfaction focusing on me. The pace he is using works in my favor. I keep getting better, and he doesn't have to see all the bumps along the way.

 

Sometimes, I just want to be done with this dating crap. If I'm going to end up with someone whom I already know, can't we just start now? But that thinking has not worked well for me in the past - it's a way of wanting a shortcut. There are no shortcuts.

 

Faraday, you made a good point, though, about my posts. What I feed my mind is important. My new goal is to strive for a bigger picture focus. If I pull the focus back a bit, the curves flatten out. From that perspective, I see an upward trend. More self esteem, more stability, more achievement, more positive attitude, better quality friends.

 

Please ladies (men welcome too) - no need to cut me slack. I won't ever execute your advice till my own instincts feel what you're saying, so that can be frustrating. I will listen, though. And use it to fuel new questions, explore new ideas. I value that process highly.

 

This morning I was asked to take on a second committee... And in other ironies, someone talked to me about my industry in another city. What city you ask? The one Slushie and I talked about as a possible destination 6 years from now. This city has never once come up in work talks before, not once.

 

He and I may go our separate ways and bump into each other at the grocery store thousands of miles from here. Hahaha... there's my next novel.

 

Life's funny.

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I will say, while I enjoy the ITIC channel ---- it is sometimes difficult to follow the story line and plot twists.

 

Regardless, your journey is yours and it is clearly a challenging one that you attack with determination and spice!

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I will say, while I enjoy the ITIC channel ---- it is sometimes difficult to follow the story line and plot twists.

 

Regardless, your journey is yours and it is clearly a challenging one that you attack with determination and spice!

 

I like determination and spice!

 

I am SO abstract. One of my college (and atill) besties used to act as my translator when we were out together. People say You're so smart! Haha, no, that's not smart, that's just so random you can't follow it. ,)

 

I sometimes write in the middle of the night, or in order to figure out what I want to say, or get through an idea. Holding a moment up to a microscope. Sometimes, I am obtuse on purpose.

 

Mostly, once I write, I'm over the moment. My words tend to be a lagging indicator of my experience.

 

On my mind this moment: I have two tickets to an event where I'd rather bring a man rather than a woman. I am part of a group of 4; Slushie won't want to present himself in that context because he is so damn sensitive to the symbol of being my date socially. And, I have a policy of not asking him to do anything.

 

So... I need a date. The guy I am meeting for coffee suggested next week. I'm going to bump him to this weekend, that way I can decide if I want to invite him. If not, I'll invite a woman. Which will be funny. Many women will be there as couples. We'll be presumed to be a couple too. That will give us a giggle.

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I am a logical thinker. Analysis, linear --- you get the picture.

 

My sister is like you --- she thinks like a scatter plot diagram. Everything relates, but sometimes it takes me a few minutes to see the connection.

 

I have also asked her, when we speak in person, to raise her hand when she changes topics in mid sentence/conversation.

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I am a logical thinker. Analysis, linear --- you get the picture.

 

My sister is like you --- she thinks like a scatter plot diagram. Everything relates, but sometimes it takes me a few minutes to see the connection.

 

I have also asked her, when we speak in person, to raise her hand when she changes topics in mid sentence/conversation.

 

Laughed out loud.

 

Kudos to you for seeing it as two ways, not better/worse.

 

It's on me to figure out how to be easily understood. Sleep helps A LOT. That's my 2016 goal. Sleep.

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There isn't a better or worse --- the world needs both.

 

She appreciates my logic and clear cut concise.

 

I appreciate her ability to think in the abstract, to envision this world as a better place and to put her efforts into it happening.

(She belongs to a think tank on the West Coast)

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