Just a journal, by justagirl.

[justagirl2]

I did think about T a bit - but remember that was after I was rejected by Z and was just having a hard time with bschool ending. It was just a feeling of "OMG, I let this amazing guy go, am I crazy?". But it was never a strong enough feeling that I actually reached out to him to get back. Quite the contrary, I let him move on and live my life because I knew if I contacted him to get back, it was for selfish reasons. I did that with G and I regret it deeply. It ruined our relationship forever whereas with T, I still have a pretty friendly relationship since we just basically let each other move on and be happy.

[Batya33]

I think you have a bit of revisionist history about your choices and behavior but it's all in the past. I'm glad you're over pursuing unavailable men.

[justagirl2]

Just got this out of a private journal I now have on private:

 

 

 

This was 02/24/2014, about 2 months post T break-up.

 

I know that I did some stupid things for the 8ish months that I was single (dated unavailable guys, chased man that just weren't compatible, had some hook-ups (Ew) etc...) but I think that is what prepared me to be ready when I did meet M in July (break-up was in November).

 

I also know that when I was very low back then, because breaking-up is hard and moving to a new city IS hard, I did long for T and wondered if I had been stupid to let go of him because he was such a great guy. But, in the end, like in this post, I knew in my heart that he wasn't the one for me. I'm not saying I didn't think about getting back with him, because I did as it seemed like an easy way out, but it was never to a point where I contacted him to make amends.

[Batya33]

I was referring to your general pattern of pursuing unavailable men for long periods of time (i.e .J and Z and in general you would be most interested in the men who weren't that into you). Obviously you are making different choice now -M is available and you are enthusiastic about him!

[Fudgie]

I'm glad you have broken the habit of going after unavailable men. I actually think it's surprisingly common. People want what they can't have, or what they feel is unattainable. Looking back, I have a history of being a bit more detached in relationships, more distant if you will. Most of my exes had periods where they felt insecure and would try to "pull" me back and their actions would change too, they'd be super duper beyond attentive, in contact, etc. Which of course, would repel me more. I used to say to my ex N "back up because you are in my as___le again."

 

I think it's a natural urge to seek the unattainable but it's not healthy to actually act on it. Glad to see that you've come a long way.

[justagirl2]

I think I did have a pattern of having a serious relationship with a super available guy, then going through a phase of chasing some unavailable men. OMG J took 2 years out of my life. But I was 22, I could afford that. Then I got involved with T, another available guy. Then I went through another phase of unavailable men with Z. I was 26 with Z though and I was smarter than with J - at least it did NOT drag over a period of 2 years but rather a period of about 4-5 months. I remember in January I asked for a clear answer from him and he said he wanted to be friends. That was that. I moved on. I stopped idealizing, chasing him. Then I casually dated a few men in my last quarter of bschool, which was pretty normal behavior after a break-up, IMO. Then I moved back to NYC in June, Z was here and actually chased me a bit but I didn't want any of it. I met M in July and have been with him since. Z tried to get me to go on dates with him in the beginning of that but then again, I was older so I was more mature. Now Z is dating a girl who seems pretty amazing and we go out for drinks occasionally as friends. We always had a pretty good friendship and I like him a lot. But, I would never in a million years think Z is better suited for me than M. For me it's so clear that M is the one for me. At least I think I resolved things with Z quickly (5 months is not thaaaat bad).

 

I think my BIGGEST "dumb" moment was J. OMG. Those were 2 lost years over someone who was clearly NEVER that into me. But, I was in my early 20's, it served its purpose. I'm not going to revise that history though. That was a pathetic moment. J is not even a bad person at all. He was just never that into me and was completely unavailable at the time. He is getting married in a few months. Shotgun wedding. He got an older women pregnant (40), he's about 37 now. They seem pretty happy but with J, it had to be something a little shot gunny because he was just the picture of unavailability. He had very high morals though and would never abandon a kid. He seems very happy as a father and decided to stay with the mom and seems like they are all pretty happy. He's not a bad person at all. But yeah, that history CANNOT be revisioned. It was a waste of time. But then again, at 22? I kind of had that time to waste. I still can't believe Soph and Annie met J with me when they visited my home country. Haha. That was a hilarious night. AND just a few weeks ago Annie saw T at a grocery store in Philly. She works at the school as a PhD while T is getting his masters. Just such a SMALL world.

 

I do have to admit the only feeling I have towards Z is a little bit of recalque. It's hard to translate in english but it's kind of a lighthearted feeling of envy. It doesn't mean envy but like in an ego sort of way. We use it as: "I really don't like the guy, but I have 'recalque' that he didn't want me". I kind of feel that way with Z and the way he's dating this new girl. Not that I would want to date him at all nowadays. But I've learned it's about people being a match, it's about timing, it's about luck. Z met this girl as his roommate, who he barely knew. They live together so something just happened there. I'm happy for him 100% and don't think for A MINUTE he's better suited for me than M is. M is older, more mature, much more looking for the same things as I am. We are a really good match. But, I do feel like it's normal to still feel a little bit of "recalque".

 

In sum, I think I've had a mostly positive dating life. I've made mistakes, I've had great boyfriends, I've cried, I've suffered, I've lived. I feel like all of my past is what makes me feel ready to commit to M now. I guess I didn't need to have had sex with the boys I did on my last quarter of bschool (2 guys that were just not worth it). I've always wanted to have a really low number. But oh well, I've slept with more than 3 guys now, which was my limit when I was younger. That is the only thing I regret because I am a little traditional about sex. But even then, that was an important phase for me too and I don't think in the course of a lifetime, my "number" will matter much at all.

[Fudgie]

The "recalque" as you call it, it's very common for people. Even for people who have long since moved on, it can feel like a bit of an ego sting to see an ex happy with someone else, even though you'd never ever ever want them back and you know that they aren't right for you. I think when I first found out that an ex from years ago (the one I lost my virginity to) had since gotten married and such, I felt a small ego sting, for all of a moment. Then it passed. I don't really want him in my life and we weren't right for each other. He wanted children and I didn't. He was stupid enough to think he would be "happy" to give them up for me, but I could see through that BS and I knew better. I made the right choice in leaving him even though he cried and begged, I told him he'd find better for him and he did! But yeah, I felt that momentary sting. I think it's only natural and human and I'm glad it passed for me. I no longer feel it now.

 

My "number" is 4, all relationships, no casual sex. I think I would have scoffed years ago at the idea of me sleeping with more than 2 people in my life, but hey, it happens. My personal limit is no casual sex/hook-ups but that is not for appearance purposes, more just because I know myself and I know it would be terrible for me and my emotional health. Luckily I like porn so it's not a problem for me because I can always look at porn/erotica. Your past is your past. Chin up, keep moving forward. It doesn't sound like M cares at all about your past so it's really a moot point.

[justagirl2]

Fudgie - Thank you for being SO supportive. You make me feel normal.

 

As for the sex thing, it's more me judging myself. I've always been a perfectionist and lost my virginity with my 2.5 year boyfriends in college. It's always kind of meant a lot to me. But honestly, I really think the hooking up I did in the past is not really going to be a big deal. Hey, it happened. It wasn't 10 guys. I regret it and know better now and hope not to do that again because it's also not who I am.

 

As for M, OMG, he could care LESS. He's just so chill about these things. So was T. Actually so was G. I remember right when he started dating his new gf (G) and I've only ever slept with him (at 21) he told me she had slept with 7 guys. It baffled me. I judged her. He didn't. They are married now. I mean, who are we to judge? My boyfriends have all been pretty chill about this. T would literally not even want to know. He was just not judgmental at all and just didn't even want to know (as he was with a lot of things, more closed). He just would never even ask or care about my past sex life. M is just... so chill about it. I could probably tell him and he would not mind at all. What matters to him is who I am, how I treat him, how I treat his family, my family, my friends. My good friend just broke-up with her totally PSYCHO ex. Can you believe he would ask her everything about her past sex life and judge her like crazy for it? He was insane. He thought she was a s word for it. He was psycho. Not just because of this. But, I think when a guy is so crazy jealous like that and is asking details about your past sex life and being crazy mad about it... it's a red flag. He would get LIVID and make her feel like such a s word when really she isn't one at all.

[Fudgie]

I think *most* people go through a phase of hooking up/casual sex. At least, that's what I've seen in others. My lack thereof has made some guys nervous in the past when I was dating because I was younger and they worried that "maybe I'd want to go through that phase". Now that I am older and still haven't gone through it, well, I don't think it would be an issue.

 

It's only an issue if your partner has an issue with it. And M clearly doesn't, so it's fine. My ex hated my past not the fact that I had slept with others but other things, like age differences. He took his anger out on me. It was very unhealthy. Now I know, never to be with someone who is ashamed of your past or hates it. As long as your partner is cool with it, that's the key thing.

[notalady]

I don't think *most* people go through that phase, some do.

 

Both my serious relationships (after the first one where I lost my virginity) couldn't care less about my sexual history. Z never asked how many guys I've slept with and vice versa (although I'd be concerned if he had slept with any guys at all Though I have a feeling his is much less than mine lol

 

Not proud of my sexual history and wished some of them never happened, but not ashamed either, it is what it is. Hint, it is upwards of 10 (I blame sex and the city haha)

 

The only person that can get to you is your own judgement.

[Fudgie]

*shrugs* when I went to college and even now in the city, people talk about having their period of "fun" and sleeping around when they were younger. Even my PARENTS did it before they met each other and they are still married and together. It's quite common, I thought. I haven't partaken but whatever.

 

I think everyone has their own regrets. I may not have had casual sex but I regret that I lost my virginity to someone who felt that "Pascal's Wager" was the sole reason he was religious. Ick. I still cringe when I think about that. What a dope. I'm so glad I kept our LTR a secret because frankly, I started to lose respect for him the longer I knew him and the more he talked about those things.

 

See, we all have regrets. Live and learn. It's part of life.

 

There will always be someone, SOMEONE, somewhere will judge you and it's best just to ignore these people. Even if you had just slept with one person, some douche somewhere will judge you for that too. If you sleep with NO ONE, people will judge that. I had an ex friend think I was a s__t simply because I was not a virgin. Well, I guess she thought her mom was a s__t too. *eyeroll* I've had guys look at my past and look down on me because I've been with much older. Oh well, their loss, you know?

[notalady]

Totally agree with you Fudgie, people will always judge you for whatever you do or don't do. Oh well. Got better things to spend our time on than worrying about that

 

I think your experience might be reflective of where you are and your social circle as well. Most people I know haven't done the casual thing (but then again, a big proportion of them are Asian so that kinda explains haha)

[Batya33]

I didn't go through that phase because I wanted to get married young, was terrified of HIV and basically knew that casual sex was not for me but many of my friends did. I did kiss a lot more guys in my 20s than I would have casually in my 30s.

[Fudgie]

Yeah it's probably my social circle. 99% of the people I've hung around were white, some monogamous, some not. I can think of a handful of friends who haven't slept around but that's about it. Like Batya, I was worried about disease and I know it would be bad for me emotionally.

[Batya33]

Surprisingly, I had to fill out a new form at my gynecologist's office a month ago. This form asks as part of a risk assessment, whether the woman has had more than 5 sexual partners. That evaluation was new to me but I guess it's based on science as far as risks increasing if you go above 5 partners.

[faraday]

This sex stuff has kind of struck a nerve with me

 

Most of the people I know that didn't sleep around, would have if they had the opportunity. *shrugs*. Idk, I've had a lot of fun...I don't regret it.

 

I know Jay "kind of" regrets not wh&$ing more when he was younger (he was a nerd, he lacked opportunity) because now he won't get to. Ha

 

I've heard that men regret the times they didn't have sex and women regret the times they do (like the ones that don't work out)...and while I look back and sometimes cringe a bit at some of the dumb things I did...I also look back, and remember at the time I was having fun and being authentic...and I don't regret sharing myself....because I learned so much about myself by experimenting and making mistakes...how can I look back and judge that girl that led me to where I am today? *shrugs*

[Batya33]

I had many opportunities. So did my husband. Neither of us chose to have casual sex. I think it's different when someone says "I would have sex if I had the opportunity" -that's a different set of values. I regretted the one time I was intimate with a man who wasn't in love with me (although we were exclusive). I didn't personally need to share my body with someone else in order to learn - but I did learn plenty from choosing not to have casual sex and from certain people's reactions. It can go both ways. Nothing wrong with experimentation as long as it doesn't hurt anyone and it's fun. I learned a lot from dating different types of people ,that's for sure.

[Fudgie]

I had a lot of opportunities too. Omg, when I was 18/19, doing online dating and looking for men? I had tons of guys wanting to get with me sexually. Not because I was hot (I'm not, and wasn't) but because of other factors. When I went to college, I had male friends who I'm sure would have jumped at the chance but hey, could have been anyone. But I chose not to party, not to go to the club. I liked concerts but never met anyone where. I liked drinking too but it never got inappropriate. I was at my most conservative during college and frankly, I'm glad I was.

Heck even now, I've dropped over 100 lb and I'm having all sorts of guys come out of the woodwork to bother me.

It's very easy for a woman to get easy sex.

 

I've never had casual sex and I'm glad I didn't, because now I can demand a man who hasn't had it either and that doesn't make me a hypocrite and that's something that's important to me. Batya is right, it is about a different set of values.

[justagirl2]

I think we might be specializing in witchcraft on this journal. Ha. I hadn't talked to Z since I think early March. I completely forgot about his bday on March 22. He's just not been in my mind at all, not even as friends. Brief history: we met about 7 years ago when we were Sophomores in college and he was interning in my country. His family is totally NYC but they have strong ties to my country (his grandfather invested there, his mom was born there, he has passport). I kind of had this love at first sight for him that was simply infatuation. He went back to school, we never talked again. 5 years later I'm in the elevator of my apartment and he just happens to walk in. It was so confusing. It just so happened that he had moved to my country after 2 years working in NYC and had moved next door to me. We lived in a city of 20 million people. We became close friends and I briefly dated him right after T - until he told me he was only interested in a friendship and I moved on. I was very infatuated after T because I just needed to be "in love" with someone after the break-up. It was never real love, just idealization and the "OMG destiny" played a role. He moved back to NYC, I moved back to NYC, and we've been strictly friends. We happen to catch up once every 3 months or so strictly as friends.

 

Today, this happens:

 

Via text message:

 

Z: Hey M, you around this evening? We gotta catch up

Me: Z - yes actually am! Let's do it. What are you thinking ? I get out of work at around 7pm tn

Z: Great! We cld get a bite to eat around 815 if that's of interest?

M: That sounds ideal! Should we do somewhere downtown?!

Z: Ok awesome - there's a place called back 40 west on prince & Crosby that I wanna try. That work?

M: It does. See you there at 8:15.

Z: Excited To catch up!

 

Are we being witches here? This was SO random. I do have to say I wonder what this was about. The first thing I told him as I sat down was that I was moving in with my boyfriend in July. I wanted to make it clear. He asked a few questions about my relationship and how serious it is and I answered that it was very serious and I could see myself marrying my bf. He was more wishy-washy saying his relationship is not that serious. Then, we talked about work/business/our families for the entire dinner and went our separate ways. He did not let me pay for dinner. He seemed genuinely happy for me and my boyfriend and even said that he thinks moving in is a good idea. At the same time, I could sense that he was testing the waters in the beginning.

 

I have NEGATIVE zero feelings for him, which is great. I like this kid, we've been friends for years and we've always had a very special connection. Would I ever date him today, even if M wasn't in the picture? Heck no. We are so different. Z just turned 27, wants to travel the world and work abroad and go to Asia (he lived in my home country for a bit). I'm ready to settle down in NYC and start making my roots here. It's so clear for me now. I also just am much more attracted to M as a man.

 

I honestly think we are specializing in witchcraft here because how the heck did Z appear out of the total blue like this when we mentioned him these past 2 days?

[Fudgie]

World works in mysterious ways, Justa!

[justagirl2]

Fudgie - I guess. I'm glad we caught up and it reinforced how in love I am with my boyfriend that this dinner had ZERO affect on me. We love talking about business in my country and it was nice as he works for a private equity firm that invests in my country. So we talked a lot about business and the outlooks in my home country which was nice. It's always nice to hangout with people where we actually talk about ideas and economics and not just gossip about tv shows and other people.

 

M doesn't gossip at all either, lol, but our relationship is romantic, so it's not daily economic debates either.

[justagirl2]

I guess it really makes me think of the question: can a man and a woman be JUST friends? Was his invite strictly platonic or was there second intentions?

 

I personally think men and women can be just friends. What are your thoughts?

 

I KNOW I have a best guy friend from my childhood that it's STRICTLY platonic. We've been friends since we were 3 years old and were in the same class for 15 years(we were both always in the advanced classes in our K-12th grade school). He just got a 720 on his GMAT and I was the first person he called. His fiancee is coming to NYC on Saturday and she already contacted me to hangout because she knows how close we are and she loves our friendship. That relationship is strong and 110% platonic. But, that's my only real strong guy friend and we grew up together, so it might be a little different?

[notalady]

I do believe in purely platonic friends from the other gender, but probably more so with guys who's never had a romantic interest in you and you him (like your childhood friend). If any one of you had ever had a romantic interest in the other, and it may have died / faded away with time and you can totally be 100% platonic with no hidden agenda, I always feel that there is a possibility for something to happen if given the opportunity and timing is right. I have both types of male friends and I've had a long term friend ask me out last year (went on three dates and it wasn't a fit), and contemplated asking out a long time friend last year (didn't do it because timing ended up totally wrong).

 

Out of curiosity what do you and M talk about mostly? I'm always interested to find out what other couples talk about.

 

I remember I ran out of things to talk about with my ex after six months or so as he doesn't like to talk about the day to day stuff, or gossip, and not really tv shows/movies, he just likes to talk about coffee, health/science stuff and politics, which is fine for me in small doses but not as every day conversation!

[Fudgie]

I think platonic friendships are possible as long as proper boundaries are adhered to by other parties. Oh, and the other person doesn't have feelings for you and vice versa, of course. I think platonic friendships are easier when both parties have partners.

 

notalady, I find it interesting to see what other couples talk about as well. I spend a lot of time talking about healthcare and the hospital and such. I do sometimes talk about day to day things but I also spend a lot of time talking about my job/career, current news, religious and political issues, weird things that I've read, some tv shows, music, etc to SOs. Sometimes I gossip but it's not the bulk of my conversation.

[notalady]

Fudgie, that's a good variety of topics, especially current events and just things you come accross in everyday life. I don't mind talking about health care in context to the partner's job, which was my ex's job, but he talks more about research he's read, scientific findings etc. it was interesting when I first met him, 6 months later, it became boring as s**t lol and he had no interest in talking about day to day stuff, like I can tell him stuff but he doesn't seem to get it and just respond in weird ways. So I gave up talking about it lol..