Blue Spiral's Adventures in Solitude

[itsallgrand]

Blue...even holy men flirt. No obligation in it. Just enjoying that mutual validation.

 

No pressure...just a friendly suggestion... as you may enjoy it.

[annie24]

There's a chapter in "The Rules" (yes I read it), which I found particularly soul-crushing. it's about instances where men are flirting without romantic intentions on moving things forward. the authors gave a few examples:

 

1) Your tax accountant is flirtatious with you but never asks you out: He looks at tax documents all day and flirts to break up the monotony.

2) Your waiter always remembers exactly how you like your coffee and knows your usual order: He wants a tip and is offering great customer service.

3) Your doctor remembers all sorts of details about you and puts his arm around your shoulders to say hi: He is exhibiting good bedside manner.

 

sigh. Now whenever a guy flirts, I just assume he's bored or whatnot and I came by and chatting with me is a break in his day. sigh.

 

PS - Catcalling on the street is not flirting at all. blah.

[Blue Spiral]

Blue...even holy men flirt. No obligation in it. Just enjoying that mutual validation.

 

No pressure...just a friendly suggestion... as you may enjoy it.

 

I'm sure I'd enjoy it, but I don't really know how to do it, and I think that I'm too old (and apathetic) to figure it out. (I did figure out how to do it online, though, and I can do it in-person if I meet the woman online first.)

 

There's a chapter in "The Rules" (yes I read it), which I found particularly soul-crushing. it's about instances where men are flirting without romantic intentions on moving things forward. the authors gave a few examples:

 

1) Your tax accountant is flirtatious with you but never asks you out: He looks at tax documents all day and flirts to break up the monotony.

2) Your waiter always remembers exactly how you like your coffee and knows your usual order: He wants a tip and is offering great customer service.

3) Your doctor remembers all sorts of details about you and puts his arm around your shoulders to say hi: He is exhibiting good bedside manner.

 

sigh. Now whenever a guy flirts, I just assume he's bored or whatnot and I came by and chatting with me is a break in his day. sigh.

 

PS - Catcalling on the street is not flirting at all. blah.

 

Flirting because of...boredom?? Wow, that's the first I've ever heard of that. Flirting takes a lot of effort, on my end, and I'm leery of the risk/possible rejection, as well. So I only do it if I'm deadly-serious.

 

PS - I've never catcalled, because I have a sort of inner mute button that I use most of the time, but if I were to publicly remark on a female stranger's body, it would be the most detailed, meticulous catcalling you've ever heard. Do I exhaustively examine and judge the body of every attractive woman I see? Yes, yes I do.

[Blue Spiral]

Well, let's get this over with. Earlier in this thread, I jokingly referred to a post that would split ENA in half. I doubt that many people will respond to this, but...

 

I've almost never spent money on women. If we're already sleeping together, I'm fine with taking them out to eat or whatever, but that's about it. (I subscribe to the female strategy of "I get what I want before you get what you want", which, for my money, is the greatest idea since sliced bread. Thanks for inventing it, ladies! Women tend to demand social interaction/attention/free meals first and sex later/maybe never; I just do it in reverse-order. But I digress.) Presents that are genuinely for them, i.e. not lingerie or the like? Nope. Jewelry? Nope. I once wandered into a jewelry store in the mall; it was like being on an alien planet. Wait, I've taken a few women on trips, too. But I think that's about it. There's one notable exception, but it isn't relevant to what I'm discussing here.

 

It probably won't shock you to learn that I don't spend much money in general. I don't like traveling, I don't like being social, and I'm not a very materialistic person...I don't have the latest phone, clothes, car, etc. Entertainment-wise, I buy maybe one or two DVDs a year, I go to two or three movies a year, and the only thing I buy regularly is books. So, while I don't make that much, I have quite a bit saved up. No dating or marriage or kids = money in the bank!

 

I know how robotic this sounds, but, I don't get much human-related joy, anymore. Not that I ever did in the first place. But with sex now out of my life, my main human-related joy comes from several cam models. I've been fortunate enough to get to watch them for years--and for free, I might add. In recent times, they've been the only bright spot in the usually-miserable "dealing with people" section of my life. Now, I've never said a word to them; they're extremely hot, and I'm way too intimidated. But I feel like I should thank them for helping me get through a lot of bad times. Given that I have a decent amount of money saved up, I've been thinking about giving a one-time gift of a thousand dollars to one or two of my favorites. Please note, I have no intention of ever meeting these women, this is strictly a "thank you for helping my life suck a little less" gesture. Nor would I ever use that money for anything else female-related. God knows they deserve it (okay, they deserve way more than that, but I don't have that much money!), and, frankly, I'm just curious to see what it'd be like to make a woman that happy.

 

I doubt I'll actually do it, because I'm way too chicken. I can't imagine actually starting a conversation with them, even if it's just online. But I do believe that hotness should be rewarded, and I'm genuinely grateful for what they've done for me. So I've been going back and forth on this for a few months.

[annie24]

Don't do it. It's kind of wacky, don't you think? You don't want to spend money on a real woman in front of you but would give thousands to a women you've never met??

[Batya33]

I would not do it because for all you know she'll barely (no real pun intended) thank you or she'll immediately ask you for more or do her best to find out where you live so her pimp or buddies can visit you and see what other goods you have. Give that extra money to someone who really needs it or splurge on yourself if you like - you deserve it too!

[Blue Spiral]

Don't do it. It's kind of wacky, don't you think? You don't want to spend money on a real woman in front of you but would give thousands to a women you've never met??

 

I admit that it's unusual, but I think that it makes perfect sense. I'm not basing it on who's physically in front of me, I'm basing it on how happy they've made me. Why would I spend money on dating (which I've never liked the concept of) or something like that?

 

I would not do it because for all you know she'll barely (no real pun intended) thank you or she'll immediately ask you for more or do her best to find out where you live so her pimp or buddies can visit you and see what other goods you have. Give that extra money to someone who really needs it or splurge on yourself if you like - you deserve it too!

 

I wouldn't be doing it to be thanked, I'd be doing it because they deserve it. I've gotten to see them for years, and I've never had to give them anything in return. That said, you know how risk-averse I am...I wouldn't do it if I thought it wasn't safe. This is a mainstream, well-established site with thousands of models, and they're getting "tipped" by tons of guys every day. A female friend of mine used to be a cam model, and she told me how it worked. These women have their own Twitter accounts and Amazon wishlists; it isn't anything shady.

 

I still don't think I'll do it, though. Ironically, my lack of confidence is keeping me from it.

[annie24]

Do these can girls get paid for private chats or something? Maybe buy time with them. They're working for it after all, right?

[itsallgrand]

Waste of money, that's all.

That's the con. Give some for free, eventually some will start throwing money at them hoping for a bit more.

 

These hot cons are bones, guts, poop, pee, just like you. lol. If you want to say something, say it. Don't bother wasting the several grand to do it. "thank you" - there, done, and it's free.

[Blue Spiral]

Do these can girls get paid for private chats or something? Maybe buy time with them. They're working for it after all, right?

 

Yeah, but you can just tip them, too. The private chats are, um...well, I think they tend to be a bit too hardcore for me.

 

Waste of money, that's all.

That's the con. Give some for free, eventually some will start throwing money at them hoping for a bit more.

 

These hot cons are bones, guts, poop, pee, just like you. lol. If you want to say something, say it. Don't bother wasting the several grand to do it. "thank you" - there, done, and it's free.

 

Strangely enough, you just summed up how I feel about marriage. "I love you, why do we need to bring finances and paperwork into it?"

 

In my experience, women react to money much more strongly than they react to words. If I want my message to be understood, I think that I need to speak in their language.

[Batya33]

 

In my experience, women react to money much more strongly than they react to words. If I want my message to be understood, I think that I need to speak in their language.

 

Then you're not doing it because you think they deserve compensation but because you want something in return. I think your assumption about women and money is wrong and offensive. Perhaps women who choose to behave in the way these women do react more strongly to money because that is a motivating factor in why they are in this line of work but that assumption about all women makes no sense IMO.

 

And anyway you are assuming they are actually women.

[annie24]

Yeah, but you can just tip them, too. The private chats are, um...well, I think they tend to be a bit too hardcore for me.

 

 

 

Strangely enough, you just summed up how I feel about marriage. "I love you, why do we need to bring finances and paperwork into it?"

 

In my experience, women react to money much more strongly than they react to words. If I want my message to be understood, I think that I need to speak in their language.

 

If it's a private chat, can't you just do or say whatever you want to? I mean, it doesn't have to be hardcore. It can just be you and her chatting. anyway, it's your money so you should spend it in a way that will make you happy.

[Blue Spiral]

Then you're not doing it because you think they deserve compensation but because you want something in return.

 

Now, that's just patently untrue.

 

I think your assumption about women and money is wrong and offensive. Perhaps women who choose to behave in the way these women do react more strongly to money because that is a motivating factor in why they are in this line of work but that assumption about all women makes no sense IMO.

 

I said that because I believe it. On the rare occasions that I've spent money on women (trips, dinner, whatever), the reaction I've gotten has been...extremely strong. Aside from being cam models, these women seem perfectly normal to me.

 

 

And anyway you are assuming they are actually women.

 

They're running around naked all the time, and there are some pretty extreme close-ups, so, yeah, I feel confident in saying that they're women.

 

If it's a private chat, can't you just do or say whatever you want to? I mean, it doesn't have to be hardcore. It can just be you and her chatting. anyway, it's your money so you should spend it in a way that will make you happy.

 

I admit, I've thought about that. But my chicken nature prevents me from doing it. Also, I keep imagining saying something like "No, you don't have to use the sex toys, I just want to look at you for a while" and the woman thinking I'm a stalker.

[annie24]

granted, i'm not a cam girl, but i'm sure that they've heard waaaaaaaaay weirder requests. I'm sure that being asked to just sit and talk would be pretty refreshing for them. easy even.

[annie24]

(I subscribe to the female strategy of "I get what I want before you get what you want", which, for my money, is the greatest idea since sliced bread. Thanks for inventing it, ladies! Women tend to demand social interaction/attention/free meals first and sex later/maybe never; I just do it in reverse-order. But I digress.)

 

Really, it's not all women, or even most women who are like this. I do know some women who treat dating as a way to try out every restaurant in town and get a nice meal out of it. However, for some of us, it's not like that at all. I can feed myself, thank you very much. I'm more than happy to pay (as evidenced by my dating an unemployed guy for the last 7 months, ugh, who broke up with me as soon as he found a job. ). I'm looking for a partner and a good match, so I am happy to split dates, or take turns, it's not about getting what i want in a material way, but getting to know each other.

[Blue Spiral]

granted, i'm not a cam girl, but i'm sure that they've heard waaaaaaaaay weirder requests. I'm sure that being asked to just sit and talk would be pretty refreshing for them. easy even.

 

Yeah, I thought the same thing. That's part of what makes it so tempting. I'm resisting that temptation, though...

 

Really, it's not all women, or even most women who are like this. I do know some women who treat dating as a way to try out every restaurant in town and get a nice meal out of it. However, for some of us, it's not like that at all. I can feed myself, thank you very much. I'm more than happy to pay (as evidenced by my dating an unemployed guy for the last 7 months, ugh, who broke up with me as soon as he found a job. ). I'm looking for a partner and a good match, so I am happy to split dates, or take turns, it's not about getting what i want in a material way, but getting to know each other.

 

I believe you. To be clear, I'm not just talking about material stuff. I have a hard time imagining that a woman would be okay with me saying, "Hey, let's have sex first, and then if you play your cards right, maybe we can get to know each other at some point."

[LikeWater]

^^I think posts like that are why you have so many people replying to you in your journal. Offensive to some; hilarious to others. Like a comedian. And it seems to me that everyone is trying to figure you out. You're an enigma. Every attempt to understand you is either met with failure or disgust, so people either leave thinking you're the epitome of male trash or that you're just... an extremely unique person. Which I believe you are, and why I read your journal.

 

I mean... you don't find such brash honesty growing on trees. Of course, I'm simply making a bunch of assumptions here, but that's kinda how I see it. My point is that it's a shame that you try so hard to close yourself off when this journal is clear evidence of how many people would enjoy getting to know you. Food for thought, I suppose.

[Batya33]

I don't find much enigmatic or complicated about the OP but I do think at times he would like to appear that way. Obviously he is bright and and a great writer. It's pretty simple to me that he does not like to socialize in real life and he does not want a serious relationship. No big deal.

[LikeWater]

You're right, it's not a big deal. To you. And to me. And to him. But for a lot of people, not wanting to socialize and not wanting a serious relationship is far beyond their realm of understanding. I'm just of the opinion that Blue Sprial's mindset of not having anything in common with others is just in his head, and not actuality.

[Batya33]

You're right, it's not a big deal. To you. And to me. And to him. But for a lot of people, not wanting to socialize and not wanting a serious relationship is far beyond their realm of understanding. I'm just of the opinion that Blue Sprial's mindset of not having anything in common with others is just in his head, and not actuality.

 

But does it really matter? For example, in reality, people who choose to marry or commit to one person of course could meet someone who is an even better match or who is superior in some way (looks, money, etc). But most people who marry will say either "I know for sure he is the one/best match for me" or at least "obviously in reality I did not date everyone on the planet so what you are saying is conceivably true but all that matters is how I feel about this person". Likewise here, he has chosen the mindset he's discussed here several times over (I am not saying he is repetitive, just that he has responded to various people who ask about his mindset) and for him that mindset is true whatever the "actuality" is.

 

The only thing that gives me pause are the times I see him expressing ambivalence (often in the form of defensiveness or going to extremes to prove what he feels is reality - but sometimes just - ambivalence) about relationships. But in general that degree of ambivalence is minor in comparison to his steadfast resolve to isolate himself.

[LikeWater]

Of course it matters. If the most gorgeous person on the planet was convinced that they were ugly, wouldn't it be a crime to sit back and not express how wrong they are? What you are in your head compared to what you are to other people can, in some cases, be a downright tragedy. I don't think your comparison to marriage really applies. You're talking more of a risk vs reward kind of thing. You might find a better match or someone better looking or whatever. Or you might end up alone and bitter, thinking of what could have been.

 

Regardless, I'm not here for a debate or to discuss about a person in that person's journal and not with that person. Mostly I'm just here to try and plant seeds, knowing that most or all of them will never grow. Which is fine, because BS is who he is and will likely remain so. And I like who he is. But the man is obviously open to discussion or he'd never have created a public journal in the first place.

[Batya33]

No it would not be a crime. I do think that giving unsolicited input is wrong though. So if someone tells me repeatedly that she thinks she is ugly I might say out of habit "I don't think so at all" but no I am not going to try to convince her that she is wrong. I might suggest that since she seems so unhappy that counseling might be a good option but since I am not a therapist (and wouldn't want to counsel my friends even if I were) I don't think it would be my place -or productive -to try to convince the person that she is wrong. Obviously if it's to the extreme of being suicidal or actually depressed then I would do what I could to get her help or call her family to try to get her help but I would not take on the task myself.

[Batya33]

No it would not be a crime. I do think that giving unsolicited input is wrong though. So if someone tells me repeatedly that she thinks she is ugly I might say out of habit "I don't think so at all" but no I am not going to try to convince her that she is wrong. I might suggest that since she seems so unhappy that counseling might be a good option but since I am not a therapist (and wouldn't want to counsel my friends even if I were) I don't think it would be my place -or productive -to try to convince the person that she is wrong. Obviously if it's to the extreme of being suicidal or actually depressed then I would do what I could to get her help or call her family to try to get her help but I would not take on the task myself.

 

Look, people typically move towards pleasure and away from pain. The OP apparently gets more pleasure through his mindset and actions reflecting that mindset and views social interaction/relationships as painful. That I don't feel that way is irrelevant.

[Blue Spiral]

^^I think posts like that are why you have so many people replying to you in your journal. Offensive to some; hilarious to others. Like a comedian. And it seems to me that everyone is trying to figure you out. You're an enigma.

 

I don't know...I've always felt like I'm pretty transparent. And enigmas should be more exciting; watching my life would be like watching paint dry. Now, watching my thoughts would be another matter entirely...

 

Every attempt to understand you is either met with failure or disgust, so people either leave thinking you're the epitome of male trash or that you're just... an extremely unique person. Which I believe you are, and why I read your journal.

 

Thank you, I appreciate that. That said, I'm a big believer in quantum theory: something can be more than one thing at the same time. I'm male trash and an extremely unique person!

 

I mean... you don't find such brash honesty growing on trees. Of course, I'm simply making a bunch of assumptions here, but that's kinda how I see it. My point is that it's a shame that you try so hard to close yourself off when this journal is clear evidence of how many people would enjoy getting to know you. Food for thought, I suppose.

 

Yeah, on the few occasions that I've opened myself up, the women have fallen in love almost immediately. It was actually sort of scary. Both of my girlfriends wanted me to propose after less than six months, and when I've shared even a teensy bit with my FWBs, they're sort of gone crazy and hyper-connected. That's actually how I got into FWBs; I gave them a little emotional support and dropped my usual sex-only approach, and they acted like it was the greatest thing on earth.

[Blue Spiral]

The only thing that gives me pause are the times I see him expressing ambivalence (often in the form of defensiveness or going to extremes to prove what he feels is reality - but sometimes just - ambivalence) about relationships. But in general that degree of ambivalence is minor in comparison to his steadfast resolve to isolate himself.

 

I'm all for certain types of relationships! Unfortunately, my preferred type of relationship just isn't realistic or practical, given our current social conditions. Nonetheless, let's make a checklist for my Ideal Relationship:

 

1. Polyamorous! No monogamy involved. I'm OK with it if some of the women are married and swinging, though.

 

2. No breeding! Self-explanatory.

 

3. Not very emotional or involved! I'll show up to have sex, and I might talk a bit before or after, but, other than that, I'm going to be off living my life.

 

4. Not very time-intensive! See above. Women are hot and all, but, I've got things to do. If I made a list of my priorities in life, women wouldn't crack the top five.

 

5. Minimal effort required! Again, see above. I need my effort for other things.

 

6. No money involved! That just complicates things.

 

7. Stay out of each other's lives! This is the one that always got me into trouble. They'd want to introduce me to whoever, and expect me to do the same...but I don't have much of a "whoever" to introduce them to. They thought I was hiding something, but, really, I just don't have much to do with other people. If I were forced into marriage at gunpoint, my half of the chapel would be a ghost town.

 

So, when I say that I'm against relationships, I mean conventional relationships. I'm fine with unconventional ones, but most women aren't interested, it seems.