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Is "The Pick Up Artist" good thing?


peter

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Hi,

 

1) what do you think about so called Pickupers and all this popular stuff on internet around dating, openers, kinoescalation, routines, literature, videos, alpha-beta theory and stuff? How do you see people that practice it and how do/would you see your partner when you find out that he has been trying some routines and stuff on you?

 

 

2) Also how would you feel if you date someone and he/she won`t stop dating other people but still wants to be with you? His/her explanation would be : "Look, I like you but I don`t know if you are the best for me so meanwhile as we date I`ll be also looking for someone else and if I find him/her better, I`ll swap your positions?"

 

Thanks!

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I like the pua community, it does work. I never read pua stuff and used it because naturally, i adapted and used pua material based on trial and error before i ever heard of pua. They focus on confidence and body language that self-help books and other material focus on, conversation openers and flow of communication that books on conversation and social- help books instruct, reading peoples body-language and what they say/mean. Only thing i dont agree with is people who try to be too general in their approach, negging, and some other ridiculous 'tactics' that some people promote (i once read get the email, lol).

 

Believe it or not, most men and women use a pua tactic on a date- even if they never read a pua book. And like me, i know men who do very well in dating, and when we discuss dating, what they do is almost always something i read from a pua book. Note, there are pua books that arent really pua books... they are more like books on building confidence and attraction, they arent the seedy and dark material that people on this forum think they are.

 

But, some pua books are bad... they focus on taking your money and come up with bs to stand out, so it varies. Also, they never focus on the chase and charm when the women is read different.

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-snip-

 

PUAs use some effective social tactics. Those existed long before PUA and PUA has no claim to them.

 

I've gotta echo what you've said about there being good and bad parts of the "community", but something I will say is that I've seen parts who don't seem to understand the distinction between convincing a girl to have sex and nurturing a seed of attraction until she wants to have sex. I know that a lot of material revolves around the latter but in practice (I've read plenty of reports, out of curiosity) I've noticed that there's often a level of coercion involved in the approach (whether successful or not), perhaps because the guys are new and aren't content to walk before they can run.

 

I think that normalising and encouraging that kind of behaviour is very harmful.

 

If I were to date someone with a view to a relationship (rather than just sexual fun), then I'd drop them in a heartbeat. Not because I think it's wrong, but because they're not looking to cultivate a connection with me (someone who they presumably found worth the effort) but rather, feel that I'm just "the best they can do at the moment". I don't think it's possible to cultivate a relationship under such circumstances.

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Hi,

 

1) what do you think about so called Pickupers and all this popular stuff on internet around dating, openers, kinoescalation, routines, literature, videos, alpha-beta theory and stuff? How do you see people that practice it and how do/would you see your partner when you find out that he has been trying some routines and stuff on you?

 

 

2) Also how would you feel if you date someone and he/she won`t stop dating other people but still wants to be with you? His/her explanation would be : "Look, I like you but I don`t know if you are the best for me so meanwhile as we date I`ll be also looking for someone else and if I find him/her better, I`ll swap your positions?"

 

Thanks!

 

I feel it's pretty cut and dry. And while I agree with Thor and his mentality on it, I can also see it being more harmful than beneficial as well. It does feel weird telling someone to become all they can, which would involve going through everything if even as a lesson or for knowledge, but steer them away from at least the entire philosophy of a pus.. Errrr pua (phone autocorrect, but fitting name IMHO). But even with that:

 

1) Horrible path. You'll be learning good things, sure, but with horrible tactics and strategies. A 'fake it till you make it' gameplay. Problem is most guys stay there. Fake.

 

2) no. I'd smile, thank her for her honesty, and go seeking someone who can make up their mind, preferably without me involved. I don't need to know you're dating other men and the decision is so hard for you right now. Whoa is me. If you mention that to me, I'm taking it as a subtle hint that I didn't stand out enough to make the decision easier, annnd you even had to tell me; no reason to stay behind and convince, fight for, or challenge that unless I'm just bored and have nothing else to do, including walking away with any respect.

 

There's a difference between a pickup artist and a dating coach. Make sure you're learning from the right guy. Good dating coach and system: The Girlfriend Activation System. Good ideas, but horrible execution: David Deangelo trainings, as well as any system that claims to 'get any girl you want!'

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I echo those who state that PUA material can be a good source for acquiring self confidence. At the very least, it can help with gaining the confidence needed to approach girls.

 

A lot of people can give vague advice like "be yourself", but for the uninitiated, some kind of method or technique can be useful. At the end of the day, we are all using some kind of a method to initiate a dialogue, be it with friends, colleague or potential partners.

 

Personally, i've looked into it and find some of the social dynamics fascinating. I take what I think is in line with my own personal belief system and discard the rest that is pure crap.

 

A lot of this material is malleable, and should be tailored to suit your own personality.

 

I wouldn't just straight out copy someone else's approach, because imitation to me is simply not the best form of flattery.

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Totally agree with everything you say here. There are good and bad parts of the pick up community. I read a good blog on picking up girls when I was younger and it greatly helped improve my confidence when talking to girls I meet or on dates. I still to this day do not feel comfortable approaching a girl on the street and always knew better than to try to use tactics or routines when talking to girls but the improvements to my body language and confidence were noticeable. I genuinely doubt I would have got either of my last two girlfriends had I not read that as I would have just let the opportunities pass me by.

 

Simple things like learning what it is that makes a man sexy and demonstrating that you don't need to have model good looks and be oozing with arrogance for that cute girl to be interested in you can do wonders for some men.

 

I do however feel sad for the men that try to turn meeting women into a cold science just to get sex. I fear a lot of these so called "Pick up Artists" are actually high-functioning sociopaths.

 

As with anything in life, you should approach it with a little common sense and not take it too far.

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Thank you all for responses.

 

I wonder what women think about issue.

 

Also I would like to focus on moral issue of topic: Men(women) Imagine YOU have a partner that purposely study dating and you don`t know if she is with you because she genuinely likes you or you are simple her best "catch". Watcha thinkin` aboot?

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A guy I know runs one of these coaching services. He's generally seen as a joke in our social circles because he takes himself way too seriously and has a chip on his shoulder. Look up link removed

 

Anyhoo. I am curious about these "PUA" communities? There's an entire community of guys working on their techniques to pick up women for sex? It's something females almost never think about.

 

I think I've been target of some of these techniques before. The backhanded compliment, the dismissive push-pull dynamic, the approach-then-walk-off stuff (I saw one episode of Pick Up Artist. I liked his hat; it made me laugh.) It generally makes the guy seem like a complete douchebag r-tard

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Isn't being considered her "best catch" related to liking you, I mean she holds you in high enough regard to consider you so.

 

I think you mean settling? What is the morality of a relationship based on settling rather than mutual love? Simple answer, there is nothing morally wrong about it if it is between two consenting adults. You should know if a woman loves you or is settling for you, if you continue to perpetuate a non-healthy relationship, that is on you.

 

As for PUA, I've used it's basic principles throughout my dating life, it is effective. However I am not putting on a facade, I am a confident guy. PUA techniques are on the same level of choosing what clothes to wear. It conveys your "style" and attracts women, some like that style some do not. However, more often than not women are attracted to it, in my experience. But like the clothes you wear, PUA doesn't really contribute much to fostering a relationship, it only gets their attention. The rest is on you and her.

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2) Also how would you feel if you date someone and he/she won`t stop dating other people but still wants to be with you? His/her explanation would be : "Look, I like you but I don`t know if you are the best for me so meanwhile as we date I`ll be also looking for someone else and if I find him/her better, I`ll swap your positions?"
I would feel crushed. And somewhat offended. If you're not sleeping with someone (or you haven't had the discussion about being exclusive), then what you do is your own business. Most relationships don't last past 6 months and how many people go on one or two dates and it fizzles? It's one thing to keep your options open, it's another entirely to tell the other person that. What your example says is "I think you're OK. You don't knock my socks off and I like spending time with you, so I'll keep you around for when I'm bored or lonely and want to go out. But as soon as that person comes along that I do think is all that, I'm dropping you Mr./Ms. Plan B like a hot rock and never looking back."

 

Do you want to be someone's consolation prize? Their Plan B? The filler in their life? The one they settle for until someone better comes along? Then don't, walk away.

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Thank you Loren for your reaction.

 

I think it sums it up all. At least my commons sense tells the same and I was asking because one guy told this attitude is actually ok. He was persuading me that his attitude is meant for the females to feel as good with him as possible. What doesn`t make much sense, does it? (like being hones is ok, but caring only for yourself is not.

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Thank you all for responses.

 

I wonder what women think about issue.

 

Also I would like to focus on moral issue of topic: Men(women) Imagine YOU have a partner that purposely study dating and you don`t know if she is with you because she genuinely likes you or you are simple her best "catch". Watcha thinkin` aboot?[/quote

 

I have been some women's best catch, they dated me because I would tell them to be with me, and they knew I would leave them if I even smelled a man around her. This lead to women dating me for a few months. They liked my look, sex or whatever... But we didn't click. I was hurt, but we had sex and I had a hot girl for a while... Sounds shallow but its honest.

 

Also, pua is very broad, its not only about sex either. And if you have been on many dates, you yourself have probably molded yourself into using pua techniques without knowing it, this goes for women too.

 

Just like women have to learn to apply makeup and do their hair to look appealing even though that might be a rare occurrence, or they cover up how they really look like, is imo the same as men who are coached by their friends on what to say, not to say, how not to act and how to act... That's part of pua.

 

My pua is different from most. I already look like someone a girl might not trust... So I can't use certain things, and I like making people feel good, so I do lean more into a deeper and loving and sensitive personality, I just bring the me inside of me... Out, without fear of being judged or hurt, I actually don't recommend this approach for most men, because it can turn into a turnoff quickly if you meet the wrong girl. In a way this is pua, because even tho I believe that this is the way I naturally am, I am aware that some women who I read correctly will like me more with this approach. Plus I honestly don't care when I'm on a date, so I have no filter... So I would literally tell the girl I can see me falling for her if I for whatever reason felt it at the time.

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A guy I know runs one of these coaching services. He's generally seen as a joke in our social circles because he takes himself way too seriously and has a chip on his shoulder. Look up link removed

 

Anyhoo. I am curious about these "PUA" communities? There's an entire community of guys working on their techniques to pick up women for sex? It's something females almost never think about.

 

I think I've been target of some of these techniques before. The backhanded compliment, the dismissive push-pull dynamic, the approach-then-walk-off stuff (I saw one episode of Pick Up Artist. I liked his hat; it made me laugh.) It generally makes the guy seem like a complete douchebag r-tard

 

I LOVE his quote and bio -- link removed it was like reading a page of my own life ha..

 

@peter - I've found it to be different between men and women reading on dating advice.. Women who I've found to study it were doing so to enhance their own qualities and date-ability... attractive. I'd stay. But if I knew she was playing games or using lines or whatever, and I wasn't sure if she was into "me" or not?? I'd more than likely play the games right back. It sort of becomes a game of intelligence then, which is always fun.

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As a woman I have to say I think it's crap, but then I've been told I think more like a guy when it comes to relationships. I want straight-up honesty and no BS, not games. And that includes approaching me for just a one-night stand too. Either say it and be upfront or best to move along. Yes, you may well get shot down, especially like right now when I'm in a relationship, but I actually do like it that you're just honest and you'll get a polite response back. I cannot stand anything that reeks of a pickup line or tactic to "try to get you interested in me" and that gets a head shake and a walk away from me every time. Ditto the whole weird insult you, compliment you thing. Admittedly that worked sometimes in my early 20s, because a guy who wasn't immediately chasing me or trying to get next to me was sort of intriguing back when I was young, stupid and more than a tad wee arrogant since I was used to a good share of male attention. Trouble is I never thought much of the guy after I got to know them and things never worked out.

 

If it's just sex you want and the woman is fairly young and inexperienced or older, lonely and inexperienced I guess it could work. Ditto if she's just looking for a good time since I will admit it does jump the BS track and just get you both to Point B from A, so to speak.

 

If you want a relationship or even a friendship with someone who will have your back and you'll have hers don't do it. In those cases nothing is better than just approaching her over something shared in common. Even just a "I like your hat/that book you're reading, your boots" said with a friendly smile works. Just don't say it while your eyes are staring hard at her chest or legs though or you're going to get that sarcastic, "Hey, I'm up here." LOL

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As a woman I have to say I think it's crap, but then I've been told I think more like a guy when it comes to relationships. I want straight-up honesty and no BS, not games. And that includes approaching me for just a one-night stand too.

 

Very few guys have the guts to do this, and very few women would be ammenable to this. I guess that's why some men rely on these techniques of manipulation.

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You're talking about the slightly more sinister techniques that some of these pick up artists will use to try to seduce women. I think most people would agree that they aren't a good thing to be doing, especially if you're looking for a relationship since in they are essentially various ways of manipulating women and it's all a bit creepy imo. However, there's some really good stuff out there on some of these pick up sites which is just about increasing your confidence, knowing how to read women's body language etc. Women have been sharing these kinds of tips with each other since the dawn of time. You only need to browse through a cosmo magazine to see that and there's really nothing wrong with it. The more confident sexy men and women out there, the better for everyone!

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However, there's some really good stuff out there on some of these pick up sites which is just about increasing your confidence, knowing how to read women's body language etc. Women have been sharing these kinds of tips with each other since the dawn of time. You only need to browse through a cosmo magazine to see that and there's really nothing wrong with it. The more confident sexy men and women out there, the better for everyone!

 

Agreed, a confident man is indeed a sexy man. And yes, you're right, the sites that are just telling men or women how to be more confident and talk to the opposite sex are a good thing indeed. I did emphasize that qualities like that were actually a far better thing and if someone is teaching a guy or a girl how to be more like that I think it's a good thing. Fellows, confidence and friendliness are always a plus.

 

I wouldn't hold Cosmo up as the standard for anything though. (Laughs)

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As a woman I have to say I think it's crap, but then I've been told I think more like a guy when it comes to relationships. I want straight-up honesty and no BS, not games. And that includes approaching me for just a one-night stand too.

 

Very few guys have the guts to do this, and very few women would be ammenable to this. I guess that's why some men rely on these techniques of manipulation.

 

Idk, for me it`s very easy to say "Hey, let`s make out!" or whatever I have in mind. but once I do this all the magic of flirting is gone.

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I think it sums it up all. At least my commons sense tells the same and I was asking because one guy told this attitude is actually ok. He was persuading me that his attitude is meant for the females to feel as good with him as possible. What doesn`t make much sense, does it? (like being hones is ok, but caring only for yourself is not.
In certain circles, there is this idea that if you appear to a woman that you're in demand/have lots of options, she'll try harder (be more desperate) to get you away from these other women. That's the only reason I can come up with for saying something like in your original post. There are some women, too, who would hear something like that and not believe he was serious in what he said, that he'll change his mind if she spends more time with him or has sex with him.

 

If I went out on a date with someone new tomorrow, I wouldn't expect that I was the only one he was dating/pursuing. But if after a few dates, he's just not feeling it (or I'm not), to say something like what you suggest is just not cool. Far better to be honest, admit you don't feel a spark and let the other person go off so you can both find someone you do feel it with. Unless you both just want a new friend?

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I don't know why people think pua is dishonest or only about sex... Is putting on makeup and a push up bra dishonest too? And even then, never have I read a book on pua that embraced the liar.

 

The best books on pua was magic bullets, they broke things down to the breaking the ice, setting up the convo, adding things that might be attractive "oh you draw... So do I? Check my phone out, I have pics of some sketches i have done", while not making it forced or desperate, then how to close. This can do wonders for men who lack social skills. The way they broke down the conversation was amazing, I wouldnt be surprised if this originally came from other material such as how to have better conversations or how to become more social.

 

Everyone wants to focus on the neggin or the fake attempts at validation (telling friends to pretend they like you, or pretending to have all these women wanting you). Thats not all pua.

 

Also.. the worse players and cheaters tend to be very nice, pretend to be honest, charming and slightly needy when needed, but still have a foundation of confidence. That's the untold story of men and women who use this to far greater success then pua.

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I never said I didn't like flirting though, flirting is good too. I just don't want the whole smarmy, "Hey baby..." followed by an obvious line or the insult/compliment routine that many of these sites do offer. Not all though apparently as I've been told and that's cool too. I think it may be a regional thing as well since where I live in the Southwest men tend to be more open and confident. I've had a number of men approach me openly over the years, but I'm also not exactly the kind of woman who looks threatening--raving cutie more than raving beauty or so I've been told. In other words, I look approachable and friendly, so maybe that has something to do with why guys are willing to walk up to me and just talk to me.

 

Back in L.A. when I lived there I couldn't walk down the street some days without getting the worst pickup lines in the world or just really obvious flirting from men who fancied themselves smooth pickup artists. And yes, even the guys who knew what they were doing were obvious about it. Of course, we're talking a town where everyone's weird anyways. These are just my experiences in the whole world of dating. I still like open communication best. Compliment me on my boots then talk to me like I'm a real person and flirt a bit and you'll get a far friendlier response back. Even if you are just trying to pick me up.

 

That said though this girl has a ring on her finger and is off the market now. These are just my thoughts and experiences from when I was on the market so to speak, but that's all water under the bridge.

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