Is It Possible to Date if You Can't Meet Women Through Traditional Means?

[Throwaway999]

My point there was I'm looking for ways to improve my dating prospects

 

Any advice in this thread that's not aimed at that is basically worthless.

 

Yeah, you keep saying that. People keep trying to give you advice and you keep ignoring it because you think it is "general life advice" and not "dating advice." And I tried to tell you that there isn't such a firm division between one and the other.

 

Do you read Dan Savage? He writes this sex advice column called Savage Love. He wrote a piece, general advice for teenagers on how to interest members of the opposite sex. It reminds me of you, because you seem to have some sort of arrested adolescent attitude. I won't quote the whole thing (link removed), he talks about going to the gym and using deodorant and basic personal hygeine things that I assume you have handled already, as you are no longer a teenager. But the relevant part for you is this:

 

read—read books—so that you'll have something to say to girls (the best way to make girls think you're interesting is to actually be interesting), and get out of the house and do sh**—political sh**, sporty sh**, arty sh**—so that you'll meet different kinds of girls in different kinds of settings and become comfortable talking with them.

 

The best way to make girls think you're interesting is to actually be interesting! You say you are totally happy with your life, but apparently girls don't think that it is that interesting. So, you can actually get out of the house and do stuff (like everybody in this thread is suggesting) or you can NOT do stuff, and get the same results. Which so far have been zilch. This isn't "life advice" this IS dating advice.

[Blue Spiral]

: out geek cred

 

There are indeed many single women at comic cons and similar places.

 

puts geek cred back up

[Bigdave117]

The best way to make girls think you're interesting is to actually be interesting! You say you are totally happy with your life, but apparently girls don't think that it is that interesting. So, you can actually go do some different stuff (like everybody in this thread is suggesting) or you can NOT do stuff, and get the same results. Which so far have been zilch. This isn't "life advice" this IS dating advice.

 

 

I hate to say this cause it's going to make me sound sexist, but I don't really find a ton of women to be all that interesting. I prefer talking to men cause they tend to have more interests and hobbies that are unusual while so many young girls tend to be a little generic

 

 

When I do find women who are either artsy, nerdy or slightly tomboyish, that's pretty much perfect. I used to have a female friend of mine who was into sports, working out, videogames, action movies...she was awesome but she was always taken. Another girlfriend of a friend of mine is a big metalhead...she used to sing for a metal band, she was awesome to

[Rosti87]

I hate to say this cause it's going to make me sound sexist, but I don't really find a ton of women to be all that interesting. I prefer talking to men cause they tend to have more interests and hobbies that are unusual while so many young girls tend to be a little generic

 

 

When I do find women who are either artsy, nerdy or slightly tomboyish, that's pretty much perfect. I used to have a female friend of mine who was into sports, working out, videogames, action movies...she was awesome but she was always taken. Another girlfriend of a friend of mine is a big metalhead...she used to sing for a metal band, she was awesome to

 

I think you will find that there are a higher proportion of urban women who fit that criteria than in the suburbs. I think we are starting to go into an infinite loop...

[Bigdave117]

I think you will find that there are a higher proportion of urban women who fit that criteria than in the suburbs. I think we are starting to go into an infinite loop...

 

 

True. I love Chicago and I think it's fantastic city. If I was born in the area and I had friends and family who lived in Chicago, I wouldn't mind living there at all. It's just tough for me to abandon the things I have here and go live there kind of on a whim. Financially, it's such a big difference too...u can buy a nice house on the border of Naperville/Aurora for 250K. A decent condo in Chicago easily goes for 400K. Hell, I hate the parking aspect of it too. I like having nice cars and I don't want it to have 50 dents on it because of the way people park 3 inches from each other in the city. I love the craziness of going out to a club in the city or going to a sporting event alongside 50,000 passionate Chicagoans but I enjoy the quietness of the suburbs a lot too. When I get my house, I will enjoy the ability to have a bunch of people over and hanging out in my house and backyard.

 

 

I don't know. I guess I'm conflicted - I do like the idea of living alongside a bunch of young people about my age but I dunno how I am really going to do any better in dating when I've been to the city so many times in the past with absolutely zero dating success. If you take out dating aspect of it, I would most certainly prefer to continue to live where I am at

 

 

What it comes down to though is I can't blame my lack of success on location. That's the cowards' way out. I've had maybe a hundred friends and close acquaintances over the years. There are plenty of people here near my age range so I should be having SOME success in dating

[KORG]

BigDave, I'm going to echo NorthDallas40 and Hazlewood here.

 

I'm an OK-looking but not amazing-looking guy. I'm in OK shape and, unlike you, I am not super muscular nor do I "look like Mario Lopez", as you've described of yourself. I have a professionally fulfilling career which I'm passionate about, but I draw merely an OK salary compared to your much higher income. I live in a depressing midwestern town with 1/3 the population of Naperville, and I'd be overjoyed to be able to live within 30 minutes of Chicago like you. I dislike the town where I live, and I don't have a ton of friends here who host lots of parties like you have access to. You are younger and more energetic, fitter, probably better looking, wealthier, and have better social opportunities than I do. And yet somehow, inexplicably, I have managed to have had many girlfriends, long term relationships, and have had decent success with online dating while you're stuck repeatedly complaining how you never have any luck dating.

 

Why is this? I assure you, I am NOT a spectacularly charming pickup artist, I have no dating tricks, nor do I have some unusual access to lots of single women that you do not. Honestly, I find it amusing that I'm talking up my own dating successes because I'm not really all that great of a dater, it's just that I sabotage myself less in dating than you appear to.

 

As has been repeatedly pointed out, you give the impression of being inflexible and set in your ways, unwilling to take a chance or a risk, and you're more likely to complain about a lack of dating prospects than to invest a sincere effort into really putting yourself out there to meet people. While I agree that Chicago would offer more dating prospects, you should still be able to get a date without moving into the city. The cold approach with strangers is hard to pull off successfully even with women who might be receptive to this approach; it requires a measure of confidence or at least a willingness to take risks, face rejection, and then try again. These are things you really need to work on.

 

I'm not bold enough to really enjoy doing the cold approach and I've found online dating to be much more enjoyable and successful if I'm not meeting single women in my daily life. My much smaller midwestern town has very few single women, so I was willing to drive to neighboring cities to date women I met online. I drove 30-40 minutes to have access to a small city the size of Naperville, and drove an hour away to a city with less than twice Naperville's population. You have a 30 minute drive to have access to Chicago: one of the best, if not THE BEST, city in the midwest. You could live in Naperville and just drive into the city to go on dates with women you met online. Even with my less-than-ideal location, I went out with around 30 women I met on link removed over the course of about a year. Most of these dates required some driving, but it was totally worth it. Somewhat to my surprise, I ended up meeting a woman on Match who lived 15 minutes from my house and she and I dated exclusively for almost 3 years.

 

I know you said you've had little responses to online dating, but I suggest that either you've gone about it the wrong way or you didn't persevere long enough. You've displayed a defeatist and desperate attitude through this thread (and other threads) and I suspect this attitude may also be apparent in your online dating attempts thus far. I also agree with other posters that you may have set your sights too high, or are too focused on appearance and superficial qualities with women you've pursued online. You acknowledge that you have a real problem with self-confidence, and your repeated comments about your athletic appearance and salary come off as an unappealing overcompensation for your lack of authentic confidence in your self-worth. This will do you no favors in dating. You also commented about not really finding most women interesting. If women think you are shallow and perceive that you do not authentically find them interesting, then indeed they aren't going to show you much genuine interest in return. Although you said you're sorta interested in everything, this vague sense of interest doesn't give you much opportunity to strike up a conversation with women based on specific interests that they are likely to share. I don't think you are showing enough personality depth, nor making a real effort to forge an authentic and non-superficial connection with women.

 

Many posters have suggested lots of different ways that you might meet more women in various recreational activities, and you've also dismissed these many good suggestions the way you dismissed online dating. You are being too dismissive, too unwilling to really take a risk and stick with it, and too afraid of rejection. Dating can be hard, but you are giving up too easily. You are not going for it with enough confidence, and when you do initiate you do not seem to be willing to really persevere enough to really see things through. The only approach that you have really been really dedicated to pursuing is complaining and feeling sorry for yourself, so this is the one area where you need not invest more effort.

[superfan]

I look and dress like a combination of Meathead and GQ. I hope people there don't think I'm a poser...I've been gaming since I was 8 years old

 

It's not really that kind of scene. Men are far less likely to be judged as 'posers' than women when it comes to the nerd scene because there are SO many men out there who seem to believe that women don't or can't like sci fi, gaming and other geeky pursuits. We are CONSTANTLY having to "prove" our nerd cred to men.

 

Seriously though it doesn't matter what you wear to something like that, as long as you go in with an open mind and don't mock those in costume or call girls out on whether or not they are "real" nerds, you should have fun.

 

And like I said, it's all about building community. You might not hook up with anybody there your first year out. But you WILL meet new people in the community who will introduce you to other people and eventually you will be exposed to someone who you do have an interest in. I always find it funny to hear people say they like too many obscure things to go to a convention. Conventions are all about liking obscure things. And they are FUN.

[Bigdave117]

...

 

Very good post

 

I've struggled horrendously in dating over the years cause I've struggled so badly with low self esteem and shyness. It's strange to talk about cause I've never had that issue with making friends - I've always been very confident in making friends but had zero confidence in regards to women, even though both processes are about the same. I developed some very bad habits and bad mindset about women and dating at a very young age and struggled to get rid of them for a very long time

 

What ended up happening is that now that I have finally improved my confidence and mindset about women to no longer be so extremely shy and intimidated by them, I no longer have the opportunities that I used to have.

 

Am I scared of rejection? Yes I am, I hate rejection and I hate the feeling of being judged. I have learned to cope with it a little better but I'm not going to lie to you and admit that I enjoy being turned down left and right, but this is why I would like to have situations where I can talk to women and then hopefully some chemistry naturally happens and it just works out that way, instead of forcing it everywhere I go and getting turned down left and right

 

You know when it comes to cold approaches, all I imagine is getting a horrible response from the women in question. Why would they want to talk to me? I'm sure they're all taken or being courted by a 100 men in their social circle. That's the kind of stuff that crosses my mind. The cold approach is extremely difficult no matter what from what I've seen

 

For online dating, I really did try with a profile that people said was well written and pictures that people said I looked handsome in (not friends, but people on dating forums I asked to critique my OLD) and got atrocious results. I'm willing to try it again, but I've read such negative opinions about OLD to go along with my own terrible experience, that I don't know how much faith I have in it. I've seen so many guys who constantly talked about how the only way they had any dating success on OLD is by going out with women who were much MUCH less attractive than themselves. I'm not necessarily looking for a playmate, but I do want a girl who is close to myself in appearance. I can't date somebody who I am not attracted to. I've seen so many guys who talked about OLD being a 4-1 guy to girl ratio too

 

As far as discussion about my superficial traits goes. I talk about that stuff out of extreme frustration because I believed all the bullsh*t that people fed me that if I do take care of myself, make sure that I have my sh*t together and work hard to be the best version of myself, I will naturally have some dating success and it's not true. None of that stuff (job, style, looks, etc...) is remotely important at all. My frustration is that I believed people's advice in that regard

 

What it comes down to is that I have absolutely no luck in terms of meeting women in my day to day life, even though I socialize constantly, I had terrible success in OLD even though I did everything "by the book" and I am not in the 0.1% of men who can talk to random women successfully. So where do I go from here? I am willing to try some of the activities that people here talk about but I'm about 99% sure that I will not meet any women there at all.

 

I don't know, I guess I just gotta go back to the drawing board

[radiohead20]

I know a lot of men in your same situation, men that have a lot going for them but a lack of dating options due to environment. the platitude "improve your self and they will come" is actually very applicable for a MAJORITY of the population since they live around environments that are more conducive to meeting women. however some of us like you (and sometimes I think myself - I work around engineers, mostly male), we are not going to suddenly see an influx of women showing interest since there ARE no women around to interact with and see the improvement. I would highly suggest to STAY away from cold approaching and online dating unless you have a rock hard shell and only being able to land dates with women who are on a lesser level than you. Activities are the way to go. From then you'll social network will start to expand more rapidly as you meet more and more people through people (as long as the people you meet are looking to meet new people!). Example: go to a rock climbing gym/event if you like rock climbing, make friends with one of the instructers or other students, one of them invites you one of their happy hours where you meet more people.. etc etc.

[Bigdave117]

The problem with the activities method is that it's all based on luck - You're hoping that the people you meet will know some attractive women and that they will be single and it will workout. Hell, look at me, I CONSTANTLY meet new people and none of them are attractive single girls/nor do they really know any attractive single girls

 

The guys who are doing online dating and the cold approach are doing it right because they're not leaving anything to chance. They're seeing the girls they want and going after it

[sophie274]

But ... It's always based in luck, whichever "method" you choose. No one can ever guarantee that you're going to meet someone you like, even just physically. I think if you want to be in a relationship, you need a combination of persistence and determination to keep doing things that are going to throw you in the path of single women, and luck. I know plenty of great guys and women who are "out there" and single because even though they meet lots of potential partners, they haven't met someone they click with. But, in the longer run, they'll definitely meet someone.

 

I've read this whole thread, and, to me, in this thread you do come off as arrogant. I'm not saying that's how you are in real life ... but your attitude could be more humble. If you're having a real problem meeting women, it doesn't make sense to come on here and say "I have everything going for me, I'm gorgeous, well-off and fascinating and my approach is great!" and then shoot down suggestions of how you might meet more women. Something doesn't add up.

[Bigdave117]

But ... It's always based in luck, whichever "method" you choose.

 

 

But the activities/expanding social circle advice is luck on whether or not you'll even meet any cute single girls at all (much less ones who like you)

 

 

The cold approach method of just talking to women in gyms/clubs/stores/etc... you at least know you have a shot

[sophie274]

Sure, yes, you know there's a girl, but all you know is that you find her attractive. I think if you get involved in an activity that is fun and meaningful for you, you have a better chance of meeting someone you actually have something in common with. Plus, you can get to know the person over a period of time, and have a much better chance of landing a date with a woman that way. Approaching random women in public is very rarely successful - many women don't want to go out with a total stranger.

[Bigdave117]

Sure, yes, you know there's a girl, but all you know is that you find her attractive. I think if you get involved in an activity that is fun and meaningful for you, you have a better chance of meeting someone you actually have something in common with. Plus, you can get to know the person over a period of time, and have a much better chance of landing a date with a woman that way.

 

I don't disagree with you that meeting somebody in that more natural way is the best way to go but again, a lot of that is based on luck. That's what frustrates me you know. For example - I see guys here who meet women through their social circle when they have a tiny social circle. I've had dozens of friends over the years without any dating success

 

My point is that I just don't want to leave anything to luck anymore

 

 

Approaching random women in public is very rarely successful

 

 

Watch this video

 

 

 

 

 

It is very difficult but it is possible. That guy is obviously stunning but I'm not bad looking at all myself. If he can get with 140+ women, surely I can find just one right?

[sophie274]

I can't watch that video right now, but I assume when you say "get with", you're not talking about him having loving relationships with 140 women.

 

If you're just after sex, clean yourself up, go out to a bar and start buying drinks. If you hit on enough women, sure, some of them will have sex with you. I was under the impression you were looking for someone to date.

[Bigdave117]

I can't watch that video right now, but I assume when you say "get with", you're not talking about him having loving relationships with 140 women.

 

If you're just after sex, clean yourself up, go out to a bar and start buying drinks. If you hit on enough women, sure, some of them will have sex with you. I was under the impression you were looking for someone to date.

 

 

I am absolutely after a relationship, but attraction is attraction, no?

 

 

I'm sure Paul can date the majority of the women he's sleeping with if he wanted to. What he's doing is a 1,000 times harder than what I'm attempting to do. All I need is one girl to like me

[superfan]

But the activities/expanding social circle advice is luck on whether or not you'll even meet any cute single girls at all (much less ones who like you)

 

 

The cold approach method of just talking to women in gyms/clubs/stores/etc... you at least know you have a shot

 

In my opinion you have far less of a shot with the cold approach then you do with meeting women through activities.

 

Let me use myself as an example.

 

Guy comes up to me in a bar and hits on me. I say no thanks because I am married. Rejection.

 

Guy gets to know me in my social circle. Doesn't hit on me because he knows I am married and therefore knows I am not an option. However, I introduce him to my single friend because I have gotten to know him, know he isn't a total creeper and they have something already in common (whatever activity we know each other from).

 

There is a REASON that statistically most couples meet through friends or their social circle. You keep circling back and saying you don't like it based on luck but going up to a woman cold is STILL leaving it to luck. She might be involved already, or have no interest in being hit on, or dying of cancer, or a lesbian. You have NO way of knowing that when you approach a woman cold...but if you get to know a woman in your social circle you find out which ones are available and which ones aren't without the risk of rejection.

 

You say you don't like rejection, but you will encounter FAR more of it with the cold approach than any other method. It will ALWAYS be up to luck...ALWAYS. But getting to know a woman before you hit on her will ultimately decrease your chances.

 

And yes, I know how bad it feels to be rejected. In my late teens and mid twenties I was fat. Not a little overweight, but fat. And fat girls see the bulk of rejection. I have been rejected by men more times than I care to count and it sucks, but eventually I found a guy who was interested in me regardless of the fact that I was fat. And then I lost the weight as an added bonus.

[Bigdave117]

I don't disagree with what you're saying. What I'm saying is I'm not finding women through social circle/day to day activities at all so I need to stop leaving it to luck and just get after it directly so I at least have SOME chance. If I continue to wait to find a woman through my social circle, it might take me 3 years before I meet somebody else

 

 

And you don't have to approach women in an overbearing manner. Friendly and polite conversation is the key. Plus I would ask if she's single and at that point, if she is taken, I wouldn't pursue the matter any further. I also wouldn't pursue the manner any further if she gave me any resistance/did not warm up to me

[bulletproof]

Here's an idea: ask everyone you know in a serious relationship how they met their significant other, and then tell us how many of those were cold approaches.

[superfan]

Here's an idea: ask everyone you know in a serious relationship how they met their significant other, and then tell us how many of those were cold approaches.

 

Good plan. Mine - not a cold approach. Met through mutual friends while on vacation in Scotland.

 

Other exes met through similar means - one I worked with, and some I went to school with.

 

I have NEVER dated someone who approached me cold.

[NorthDallas40]

Here's an idea: ask everyone you know in a serious relationship how they met their significant other, and then tell us how many of those were cold approaches.

 

Wait lemme guess:

 

"I could do this, but it's too difficult. They're already in a relationship. I don't see how this can help me. Besides, I'm comfortable not knowing how they met. It wouldn't apply to me anyway because I have self-esteem issues from ten years ago. Any other ideas?"

[Batya33]

I dated someone who approached me cold, at a singles event and for many years after we stayed in touch as friends. A few other examples come to mind as well.

[Bigdave117]

Here's an idea: ask everyone you know in a serious relationship how they met their significant other, and then tell us how many of those were cold approaches.

 

I know how the majority of my friends met

 

I dont think any of them met via cold approach but I know my main older friend has been with quite a few women via cold approach

 

Look, Im not debating that meeting someone via social circle is best but it's not an option for me. I've tried and tried and tried to no avail

[Batya33]

I know how the majority of my friends met

 

I dont think any of them met via cold approach but I know my main older friend has been with quite a few women via cold approach

 

Look, Im not debating that meeting someone via social circle is best but it's not an option for me. I've tried and tried and tried to no avail

 

Your social circle shouldn't stay stagnant and therefore you can keep trying as you add new people.

[bulletproof]

Listen, it's clear you decided what you wanted to do before you started this thread. Our job (which we are failing at by offering you other ideas) was to confirm the following: 1. Dating for men is so hard, 2. A cold approach is a great idea, 3. You shouldn't change anything.

 

So I guess, go do it then. What do you need input for?