Can't Figure This Girl Out

[Ms Darcy]

I read that hot and cold article and I was afraid to admit to most of those. I don't know what to attribute it to other than my skepticism towards relationships after my 4.5 year relationship ended inexplicably in summer of 2011.

 

So, the BEST thing you can do in the future is deal with your feelings about the end of your previous relationship, as well as your skepticism, so that you are emotionally available and not back and forth with the next woman.

 

That's the self-improvement you can do.

[Capricorn3]

I just HAD TO log in, just to rep this post! Seriously OP, this is almost bordering on obsession (at least, that's how it's coming accross to me). Is your ego really that big and that weak that you simply cannot accept that she's not interested? Just let it go already. Leave to poor girl alone and show a little dignity and self respect. Not only self respect, but respect for others. Leave it be and move on.

[Goodfellas]

Is your ego really that big and that weak that you simply cannot accept that she's not interested? Just let it go already. Leave to poor girl alone and show a little dignity and self respect. Not only self respect, but respect for others. Leave it be and move on.

 

The irony is, since a supportive text Saturday afternoon, I have left her alone. She has NO CLUE about this dialogue in my head or that I'm planning anything. Coming to ENA was pre-emptive to see what's what and to get all angles of the situation (and man have I ever received that!) In fact, I've had more contact with you strangers regarding her than I have had with her since I've retuned!

 

She just initiated contact within the last two hours and I've kept it light and sterile; no hinting of going for a drink or wigging out because she's been too busy. I'm really, very, extremely contemplative right now. At the risk of coming off more arrogant than most of you already (erroneously) think I am, part of me feels I should be applauded for seeking out opinions of others before rushing into this situation blindly and causing more damage. Bear in mind, I have yet to do ANYTHING I've discussed in this thread to or with her. So, please, ease off Goodfellas, would ya?

 

NorthDallas40 - Good job! You aggregated all the female opinions, added a one liner of your own, and now you're a champ.

 

Ms Darcy - Spot on, this is sound advice and one of the byproducts of this topic.

[NorthDallas40]

NorthDallas40 - Good job! You aggregated all the female opinions, added a one liner of your own, and now you're a champ.

 

Sarcasm aside, I would have given the same advice regardless of what anyone else posted previously.

 

But it's good you're trying to figure things out before contacting her. I'd just try to do it sooner than later; you don't want to leave her hanging when all you're really going to say is goodbye. (I assume)

[happpybear]

I have nothing really to contribute here, I agree with what everyone else has written, but I must say that this has been one of the most interesting, griping and also alarming threads I have read in a long time. I am sort of sitting on the edge of my seat wondering what will happen next, will OP take this advice and just leave the girl alone? Or will he actually keep in contact? What will the poor girl say if they do meet up for "closure"? This is like a bad soap-opera.

[Goodfellas]

Haha well I'm glad my current situation is entertaining for someone because for me it's anxiety-inducing.

 

We texted for a few hours tonight, pretty sterile convo about my jetlag and her new gig. I broached the idea of "even the most dedicated nurse needs a break" and she mentioned having to study when not at hospital and feeling like a zombie (not good company) after every 12 hour shift. In other words, she's too "busy"

[mhowe]

And this concludes our story line.

[tiredofvampires]

The reason I suggested closure is this: when there is a bonding that occurs, and I believe it has for both the OP and this woman (i.e., they have both felt something for eachother, even if illl-defined), that leaves UNFINISHED BUSINESS. Maybe we can't always finish unfinished business. Someone leaves and you have no way of contacting them. They block your number. They die. There's all kinds of ways that business can remain unfinished, and sometimes, I do believe that silence IS an answer.

 

But I don't consider it an optimal approach, and for this very reason: I had half a suspicion that this was NOT over. This is not by any means concluded. Contact has been re-established, and by her. And so the story line continues. Because there are dangling questions left.

 

When you have unfinished business and things left up in the air, and assumptions and zero communication and guesswork, it gets messier and messier and messier.

 

I also don't know why she has to be seen with such pity, as "a poor girl". I think we are all sympathetic to her as the character here who is probably more loving than loved. But a mature, responsible woman OWES IT TO HERSELF to put on her big girl pants and meet the challenge of having a complete conversation if that is possible, either if she wants it, or he does, or both. It's not like she's being tortured. She had to wait for his safari to come to an end, with things up in the air and a job that probably has had the lion's share of her attention.

 

There's a scene in "As Good as it Gets" with Jack Nicholson [semi spoiler alert] -- an older ladies' man who's played the field most of his life -- near the end, when he realizes he may be lonely and ready to deal with the fact that he's never really committed to anyone, and having lost someone he was starting to fall for because of his flakiness (Diane Keaton), where he goes on a "mission" to get in touch with all the women he's ever had flings with in his past, to get feedback. So there's a string of rapid-turnover scenes of him going from door to door to door, narrating this mission. As he relates it, it shows some women angrily slamming the door in his face or hanging up on him, as soon as he appears; but some women, he says, took the time and told them what was what about him and gave him a proper critique, which he was looking for. So in the line-up of quick scenes, some of these women are animatedly chatting to him with endeared expressions. The viewer is left to guess that these women are long over him and so non-attached, they're cool about giving him feedback, while the others probably have a permanent black mark in their books with him. His point was that it was an eye-opener and reality-check all around.

 

I'm reminded of that part of that movie with this OP. (I recall there's a similar sequence in High Fidelity as well.) I think these scenes are reflecting something real about life: that sometimes we can get important wake-up calls or information about ourselves if we're really interested in what someone's perception of us and our behaviors is. I don't think that's entirely selfish in just an egotistical way, and I do sense that the OP is trying to figure himself out. He's taken a good beating on this thread and manned up to it, so I give credit to OP's who do that unflinchingly.

 

The question is, how will you apply that OP, in the best way possible here? And are these your only motives? You have to figure out what your motives really are, and what this woman could say, what you're looking for her to say, to give you actual constructive feedback. Are you truly looking for some reality check, and if so, what kinds of answers/questions will you be looking for/bringing to this conversation? Because if it's really just more a matter of easing your sense of someone wanting to erase you from their life and continuing to engage her in an open-ended way to placate that unpleasant feeling (and hoping for a few more romps), that would be unkind and stringing her along.

 

So at this point, I think a conversation is a must, since you're talking and this could go on and on. I think you need to have a conversation that picks up where you left off - -but with a clear intent that for you, the point is to tell her that you don't see a future (in a way that doesn't blame her) even though you like her, and to say that since you know her goals right now probably don't match up with yours at your life stages, it's best that you go your separate ways. A sit-down at a diner for dessert (not drinks), where you give her the gifts, and then have the frank talk would be appropriate in my opinion.

 

I don't think people "owe" others closure, but I think that in a better world, people would be kind enough as well as strong enough to be able to share a moment of truth together before moving on.

 

I've experienced it with and without this, and find the clean approach where you both know exactly what this was and wasn't, feels so much better, and is so much more conducive to mutual emotional peace, ultimately. Even if it's not pleasant to go through.

 

I would not want anyone thinking of me as some oppressed creature who can't bear to conclude what we started with an open-hearted, direct, clear and clean convo.

 

I'll do my crying after that...but then, I'm back to what it would have been, which is picking myself up again. Only now I'll never wonder what the hell ever happened, what might have happened, or if we were ships passing in the night. I should be able to handle that. And even for the sake of someone else, because we actually had *something* and they apparently care enough to need some resolution -- so this means I meant something to them.

 

As I said though, to continue this just open-ended would be a grave mistake.

[itsallgrand]

Like I said....a month. Then that's what I would give. Of this 'chitty chat" business.

 

If she hasn't met you by then, or made a real effort in some way, just disappear.

 

You've made your intent to stay connected clear. Now it's in her hands .

 

I think a month is fair considering how long you were away for, plus her settling into a routine, plus her processing her feelings etc. away from you right there.

 

Only my opinion.

 

I guess you are pushing for something direct. For her to either tell you "hey, not interested anymore. Doesn't work for me. Not with you being on the fence about things."

 

You might or might not get it.

 

Just don't get addicted to the rush of all this. This is how people can get hooked in crap situations! They get all kooky cause someone brings out parts of themselves they aren't quite sure about.

 

One thing that really struck me reading this thread and your responses was you said "I can't see myself loving her." I wanted to write to that OUCH. Ouch for her. If you said that to her face, what do you think she would do?? If I knew a man thought that about me, it would sting and then...I'd end it dead right there.

 

So it's kinda interesting how things go down cause we all keep stuff close to the vest a lot. If you both said what you are thinking/feeling deadpan, it would be resolved virtually overnight!

[fifregister]

When I've given or received "closure," both parties are either lying or being polite, or both. This is a fact and a perfectly acceptable part of life. You will NEVER get the whole truth about the real motivation. The reasons for rejection are often legitimate big-picture stuff, coupled with hurtful stuff, with downright stupid stuff.

 

Examples: One of us wants to play the field and the other wants something serious, we live too far apart, one of us has Peter-Pan syndrome, we differ in life goals and values, we have different ideas about family, we have different religious convictions, we don't get along.

Couple with hurtful: One of us is not smart enough, or too fat, or doesn't make enough money, or is ghetto, or annoying.

Coupled with stupidity: I don't like his hair style, he looks like my ex, he looks like my brother, Geez he's TWO years younger, his ears are too big, he doesn't trim his chest hair, what's up with his teeth?

 

Your primary trouble is that you are using "closure" as an excuse to tug at the cord for more flattery or some sort of unclear emotional satisfaction. Life is never neat. Create your own closure. Cut the cord already.

 

But on the other hand I wanna see the bloody drama unfold with you and this chick, LOLZ.

[Goodfellas]

This gets into her psyche, bravo tiredofvampires! What gets me - and is something I've yet to share - is she "doesn't do well with unresolved issues" (her words.) Now, this is hanging over us like a dark cloud. She mentioned in the past when we had a minor hiccup she needs resolution and in-person discussion to do so, not via phone or text. Also, she is a straightforward gal who doesn't shy away from speaking up so this near-silence we've been subjected to is perplexing from her end. This is what leads me to believe she's truly overwhelmed with the new job and not necessarily completely done with Goodfellas.

 

P. S. Nice touch with mentioning "safari" followed by "lion's share" haha

 

 

 

This gets into my psyche, kudos to you again, tiredofvampires! It has baffled me that few in this topic have empathized with this stance of mine. I want answers and insight about myself! Sure, as fifregister mentioned I may not ever get the 100% truth, but as of now I have 0%. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Let us talk, we can bounce reasons back and forth, then I can determine if it seems flimsy or legitimate and I'll have semi-closure. I may even be provided with an answer to the inevitable "what happened between you and that nurse?" question that's better than a shoulder shrug and "I dunno! I got back from Africa and..."

 

 

 

To this quote and itsallgrand's point timing is an issue here and we live about 90 minutes apart. I'd love to wait a month to give her space but I don't know when I'll be out her way again as I need to return to school tomorrow and she's at work (another 12 hour-er). So I've decided to drop off the gifts with a still to-be-written card tomorrow when I drive through her city en route to school. This diner meet up is arguably the best option but the logistics are off. The reality is, at some point I was thinking of her on trip and shortly after returning. These gifts are FOR HER and I want her to have them because I truly do care for her, so, I will give them to her despite what most are saying here.

 

The note, which I will write this afternoon and possibly run by all y'all, will be carefully worded and thoroughly thought out. No haste, or else it would already be completed.

 

 

 

I'm certain some of your "closure reasons" have been true and heartfelt. Maybe not the whole truth, but more info for the ex-man than leaving it dangling in silence. Also, I'm not seeking flattery. I doubt she'll tell me "I'm disengaging because I'm just sooooo into you!" I just want to know where the wheels came off and it went south... why is this so difficult to grasp (for most here, not just you)? While I respect and value your opinion, I will not cut the chord just yet and by the looks of your last statement, I have an audience that's relying on me pursuing this further haha.

[figur]

IMO she realized she didn't miss you while you were gone. Doesn't matter AT ALL if she came to this conclusion because of talks with her friends or being busy with work. You left without demonstrating that you were actually invested (and you have admitted you are not and do not envision a lifetime commitment with her, which is what she has said she wants with a man), so that gave her something to mull over for two weeks.

 

New, hectic job or not, if she were particularly interested she'd carve out time for you now that you're back. Even if it's for coffee, even if you're 90 minutes away. I doubt she's playing "hard to get," she just has realized there's no point in chasing a man who isn't even that interested in the first place.

 

So if you are wondering if her disengaging is something "you did" it is only because you AREN'T INTERESTED IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH HER. That's totally fine, and I doubt she's even mad about it if that's what she has actually come to realize. As for what to do differently in the future, just go into dating realizing that 1) women in their early 20s vs late 20s-30s are often vastly different in their desires and understandings of what they want, 2) some women will expect a more firm commitment within 2-3 months, 3) you need to know what you want out of dating in the first place. If it's to just date around and not plan for marriage yet, many women who you may even click very well with will bail once they realize you aren't on their page.

 

And as far as your wanting "closure" or an explanation, I get that. We all want that. But like so many have said, no only do we not always get that, she may literally refuse to give it to you. Even if you two meet up for some "final discussion" she may evade your questions or give totally unclear answers.

[fifregister]

I wholeheartedly agree.

[tiredofvampires]

In my opinion, for something that's bothered you this much, and apparently bothers her, too, driving 90 minutes and making a point of doing that within the next couple of weeks is worth it. Nine pages of thread with you saying you had wanted that "serious dialogue", and you were deadset on it, notwithstanding all the opposition on this thread -- and now logistics are a problem? Too much of a pain in the behind to make it happen? She has 12-hour shifts, and you start school. So what? There are times you are not in class/school and she is off work, and it's just a matter of making a point to align these.

 

I find it odd and disturbing that you've been going on and on about needing to have a talk with her...and now that she's made contact with you, you're finding reasons to not have the talk you wanted to have, that you've been going on about this entire thread.

 

A note with the gifts was appropriate before you had this several-hours conversation, when you had nothing but silence. Now, it's a cop-out. However "sterile" the conversations, you've had them, and that means the connection is still alive -- and now, what is leaving a note and the gifts going to "teach you" about yourself, which was your objective, wasn't it? Or was it? Did you mean that? And how will that put finality on things, rather than more confusion, awkward continued calls, no direction, no clarity, no conclusion? Now that you have the chance to set records straight, you want to leave her with a note that she will then find strangely impersonal after having been talking. AGAIN: it's neither here nor there, which is exactly what you've done before.

 

And "giving her space" for a month? I thought you didn't want to project onto her what she needed, but just wanted to find out where her head is at?

 

You're really all over the place.

 

It's time to grab the bull by the horns and say, "Look, I think we need to get together to talk about some things that I feel were left unresolved and unfinished. I don't do well with unresolution, and you've said neither do you, so I'd like us to coordinate our schedules to get together." And drive the freakin' 1.5 hours there and back. It's not cross-country, and you and she were finding time for it when it involved sex. You can do it for a conversation that it's taken you 9 pages to convince us might be worth it to you, for this resolution you clearly so badly want.

 

So man up and get with the program -- YOUR OWN program.

 

I'm going to ask you what you said here: "what's so hard to understand about this?" How it is so hard for people (and that includes you, OP) to GO FOR WHAT THEY WANT DIRECTLY?

 

If you don't deal with this directly, and leave a note (saying what you can now say in person, which was your original desire and I believe, the best given she's broken "NC"), I'd say you've learned absolutely nothing from the time you didn't answer her question before your trip, until now. It's just more of the same: roundaboutness where clear discussion should have been. And you'll have missed that opportunity once again.

 

Same MO that got you to this point to begin with.

 

Goodfellas: you seriously need to stop being a flake. I advise continued introspection on your defaulting to flakiness, and finding excuses where reasons should be.

 

And btw, no one here knows what's going through her mind, her reasons or anything. If you don't know, how can anyone here know. It's all speculation unless or until you get it from the horse's mouth.

 

Why is this so hard for people. It's like some kind of communication phobia. We can't possibly hope to make life unmessy or get all that we're seeking, with so much out of our control. But what is within our control and power to do -- why would we want to abdicate on the effort?

[Goodfellas]

A note with the gifts was appropriate before you had this several-hours conversation, when you had nothing but silence. Now, it's a cop-out. However "sterile" the conversations, you've had them, and that means the connection is still alive -- and now, what is leaving a note and the gifts going to "teach you" about yourself, which was your objective, wasn't it? Or was it? Did you mean that? And how will that put finality on things, rather than more confusion, awkward continued calls, no direction, no clarity, no conclusion? Now that you have the chance to set records straight, you want to leave her with a note that she will then find strangely impersonal after having been talking.

 

I suggested a get-together (on two ocasions) last night and got the slip! What am I to do, force a hangout on a ridiculously busy girl then come off as selfish for taking her away from work and studies? Here is the verbatim text history from last night:

 

Me: I'm happy for you that you're enjoying it there. If you ever need a break let me know eh. But for tonight, I'm out. Ciao for now

Her: Thanks and have a good sleep!

Me: To clarify, I'll have wheels [i don't always] and you're a human who needs breaks haha. I appreciate you're busy adjusting to a new workplace so I'll leave you be now, but just know that even if you're in zombie mode I wouldn't mind a hangout. Especially if it takes your mind off [hospital name] temporarily.

Her: Zombie mode is no good for anyone believe me lol. Night.

 

I'm ridiculously close to just calling her and forcing a chat, which I don't want to do. It would undo all the advice, introspection and whatnot from the past few days. I'm so, so torn.

[NorthDallas40]

Admittedly I haven't read every post in this thread, but forcing a chat or meetup seems utterly pointless to me. And I bet she feels the same way.

 

Just send her an email expressing your concerns for closure (if you must), but also make it clear that you don't wish to continue the relationship, that you respect that she doesn't either, and wish her the best. Simple, done, get over it and move on.

 

Anything more is just flogging a dead horse IMO.

[mhowe]

The horse may be dead....but the jockey is bound and determined to walk the rest of the way if need be. Sadly...he was disqualified as soon as the horse died.

[tiredofvampires]

I haven't read every single post either, so if I missed the part where you recounted the offer to meet her, my apologies. I didn't see that posted anywhere.

 

But having done so now, do you see any difference in tone, intention, mood, import, and content between this:

 

"Look, I think we need to get together to talk about some things that I feel were left unresolved and unfinished. I don't do well with unresolution, and you've said neither do you, so I'd like us to coordinate our schedules to get together."

 

and this:

 

Me: I'm happy for you that you're enjoying it there. If you ever need a break let me know eh. But for tonight, I'm out. Ciao for now

Her: Thanks and have a good sleep!

Me: To clarify, I'll have wheels [i don't always] and you're a human who needs breaks haha. I appreciate you're busy adjusting to a new workplace so I'll leave you be now, but just know that even if you're in zombie mode I wouldn't mind a hangout. Especially if it takes your mind off [hospital name] temporarily.

Her: Zombie mode is no good for anyone believe me lol. Night.

 

??

 

Frankly, all I get out of your "offer" is a booty call and business as usual. Why would she make any special effort for this? lol haha k thx ttyl

[tiredofvampires]

It would undo all the advice, introspection and whatnot from the past few days. I'm so, so torn.

 

Your conversation with her, as relayed above, has done this.

 

And what are you torn about? YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE WITH THIS GIRL. Are you just loathe to give up the sex and attention? It's starting to look like that more than learning anything about yourself. You're just on autopilot, changing nothing.

 

It's hard to watch an entire threadful of epiphanies go up in smoke...but it's not new.

[Goodfellas]

I just went for an extraordinarily long walk with my boys (dogs) and I know what I should do. What is stumping me now is why I have such a strong compulsion to give the gifts and note (possibly due to my frugal nature and hating to buy unused gifts haha) when I know she isn't the one.

[happpybear]

I just went for an extraordinarily long walk with my boys (dogs) and I know what I should do. What is stumping me now is why I have such a strong compulsion to give the gifts and note (possibly due to my frugal nature and hating to buy unused gifts haha) when I know she isn't the one.

 

Gifts don't have to be unused, regift them for the next family b-day. Don't make this about the gifts, I don't believe the compulsion has anything to do with making sure she (who you don't even want) gets your gifts.

[NorthDallas40]

I just went for an extraordinarily long walk with my boys (dogs) and I know what I should do. What is stumping me now is why I have such a strong compulsion to give the gifts and note (possibly due to my frugal nature and hating to buy unused gifts haha) when I know she isn't the one.

 

It's called being human. You have feelings for her (even if they're not LTR feelings), and also want her to know that you're a good person. That's perfectly understandable.

 

Unfortunately, giving her the gifts and a note will send the completely opposite message. Just exercise some self-control now, and a month later you'll realize you did the right thing by letting it go.

[Goodfellas]

Well, another day of no contact between us. Tomorrow will be decisive as I still haven't written the card - may not at this point - and still am undecided about gift giving. Until tomorrow aka D-Day, eNAers.

[fifregister]

So what was the outcome?

[happpybear]

Ya, what happened? I need closure..lol j/k