Emotional intelligence vs logic

[TimmyBoy]

Sure you can. You walk to another room and close the door. Or you go outside for a walk or you getting your car and go for a drive. There is always a way to walk away from emotionally charged situation.

What do married people do? I know when my husband and I get overemotional we go to another room or we go for a walk or somebody goes for a drive and we walk away from the emotional situation until we can come back and talk about it later in a calm reasonable way.

 

That way you're exercising your own personal responsibility not to carry on a bad situation.

 

I disagree. I have to live with that person in an environment which is now profoundly uncomfortable for me. I am aware that they dislike me for utterly irrational reasons and there is nothing I can do about it. That is not fair.

[Seraphim]

I disagree. I have to live with that person in an environment which is now profoundly uncomfortable for me. I am aware that they dislike me for utterly irrational reasons and there is nothing I can do about it. That is not fair.

Then the answer is somebody has to move.

[TimmyBoy]

Lol..... Dude but do people have to cow-toe to your expectations?

 

I expect to be able to reason with people, just as people are able to reason with me. No-one is perfect, but at least I ASPIRE to be rational.

 

You know insulting people will get you nowhere right?

 

I'm confused. Who did I insult?

[mhowe]

You are really not logical at all.

Slavery was not about emotions. It was about the basic equality of man.

 

If you want to live free from societal acceptance and norms, that is your right. But then you don't get to whine about the fact that people don't like you. Because liking you is their choice. And logically...they shouldn't like you.

[Seraphim]

You are sliding in your own personal and innocuous insults with your diatribe. You slung want one at mhowe just now about her logic equating to slavery.We do read.

[laninaperdida]

I can see how this is an example of what might be dubbed "poor emotional intelligence". I do not necessarily agree with your conclusion, however. Social customs are not always based in logic, and if they are not, then their enforcement is not justified. If a goth boy gets picked on at school for having long hair and make up, HE is not the one who should have to change his ways. It is not fair to expect him to kowtow to other people's small-mindedness and bigotry.

 

You're arguing.

Can't you just be like "Man, rules suck, but I better write them down?"

If you don't budge you'r egoing to be forevermiserable.

[TimmyBoy]

You are really not logical at all.

Slavery was not about emotions. It was about the basic equality of man.

 

Someone had to take on the task of persuading others, using logic, that men really were equal. If those advocates did not press the point because people are "entitled" to be irrational and bigoted, slavery would have persisted. That is how society progresses.

 

If you want to live free from societal acceptance and norms, that is your right. But then you don't get to whine about the fact that people don't like you. Because liking you is their choice. And logically...they shouldn't like you.

 

And what is that logical reason?

[TimmyBoy]

You are sliding in your own personal and innocuous insults with your diatribe. You slung want one at mhowe just now about her logic equating to slavery.We do read.

 

That was not an insult. It was an analogy. You seem to think that disagreeing with you is the same as insulting you. I differentiate between these things, which may be part of the problem.

[Seraphim]

I think you came to argue to be " right". Not actually learn anything. So I am going to exercise my right to an awesome day and let you be "right."

[TimmyBoy]

I think you came to argue to be " right". Not actually learn anything. So I am going to exercise my right to an awesome day and let you be "right."

 

But this is the point. You are doing what everyone else does: expecting me to just accept that you are right without a logical argument in support. This is not something I am comfortable doing. Despite my disagreement with mhowe, she has nailed it: I do not accept that people have a God-given right to be unreasonable, but others do.

[mhowe]

People don't have a "right" to be unreasonable. It is their choice to choose what YOU perceive to be an illogical choice

[TimmyBoy]

People don't have a "right" to be unreasonable. It is their choice to choose what YOU perceive to be an illogical choice

 

Postmodernism strikes again. If they are not being irrational then they should be able to support their position using logic, instead of telling me to just accept it because that's just how it is and it's their right to feel how they want.

[mhowe]

You do not know me in real life. I have an active social life with plenty of friends. I just have this issue with *some* people every now and then.

 

However, I note the hypocrisy of you resorting to childish personal insults whilst telling me that *I* am "unlikeable".

 

Again...you took what I said out of context. People who think like you will stay around you.

The general population as a whole will not. I never said you didn't have friends. I said that those that subscribe to feelings/emotions having a viable and important part of human discourse will find dilogues with you tiresome.

[TimmyBoy]

Again...you took what I said out of context. People who think like you will stay around you.

The general population as a whole will not. I never said you didn't have friends. I said that those that subscribe to feelings/emotions having a viable and important part of human discourse will find dilogues with you tiresome.

 

I did not take you out of context. You did it to me. You have judged my performance in more light-hearted social environments based merely on an internet forum debate. And in a debate, logic and accurate use of language are important things. My mates and I going to see Anchorman 2 and then hitting the pub afterwards is a very different environment.

 

I do care about people's emotions. I simply dislike being told what to do withtout a logical justification for that order. If you say "ah but Tim, just because YOU think it's illogical, that doesn't mean it is", then fine - it is incumbent upon the other person to present their compelling case.

[Lorem Ipsum]

Frankly, mhowe, I think you are right. That is the crux of the issue here. I fiercely resent kowtowing to irrational expectations

And yet, somehow you expect other people to kowtow to *your* irrational expectations that everyone should be Mr. Spock logical at all times in all situations. The only person you have control over is you. You can neither expect nor demand that other people live to your standards or your morality. The fact that you hold your version of truth and logic to be "better" than other people's judgements or opinions and try very hard to convince them they're wrong is the reason you get into arguments that you cannot win. Because just as you resent having to "give in" to someone else, they resent having someone like you tell them they're wrong and they should substitute their judgement or feelings for yours.

 

I suggest that the next time your logic and morality start tweaking your nose over something that someone else has said you say to yourself "well, that's their opinion. I don't agree with it, and I think they're wrong but they are entitled to their opinion." and then say absolutely nothing. If they press you for your opinion on the subject, you can say that you don't hold the same opinion, that you believe X rather than Y but different strokes for different folks, eh? and then change the subject. Because in the end, you can't change someone else's mind, only they can. To continue on the slavery issue: yes, it was legally abolished. But, racism still exists, that can't be legislated away. There are still people who believe that things were "better" back in the good ol' days of slavery -- and no matter what you say, you will never change their minds because their hearts and minds are too small and atrophied to be changed -- no matter if you believe that opinion is morally wrong or logically incorrect. Other people have just as much right to their feelings and opinions as you do to yours.

 

Have you been assessed for Asperger's Syndrome?

[TimmyBoy]

And yet, somehow you expect other people to kowtow to *your* irrational expectations that everyone should be Mr. Spock logical at all times in all situations. The only person you have control over is you. You can neither expect nor demand that other people live to your standards or your morality. The fact that you hold your version of truth and logic to be "better" than other people's judgements or opinions and try very hard to convince them they're wrong is the reason you get into arguments that you cannot win. Because just as you resent having to "give in" to someone else, they resent having someone like you tell them they're wrong and they should substitute their judgement or feelings for yours.

 

I have every right to tell them they are wrong if they have chosen to pick a fight with me. I have a right to stand up for myself. I would not hold "my truth" to be superior if my interlocutors actually presented a convincing counter argument. I am open to persuasion.

 

I suggest that the next time your logic and morality start tweaking your nose over something that someone else has said you say to yourself "well, that's their opinion. I don't agree with it, and I think they're wrong but they are entitled to their opinion." and then say absolutely nothing. If they press you for your opinion on the subject, you can say that you don't hold the same opinion, that you believe X rather than Y but different strokes for different folks, eh? and then change the subject. Because in the end, you can't change someone else's mind, only they can.[/Quote]

 

Would they extend me the same courtesy?

 

To continue on the slavery issue: yes, it was legally abolished. But, racism still exists, that can't be legislated away. There are still people who believe that things were "better" back in the good ol' days of slavery -- and no matter what you say, you will never change their minds because their hearts and minds are too small and atrophied to be changed -- no matter if you believe that opinion is morally wrong or logically incorrect. Other people have just as much right to their feelings and opinions as you do to yours.

 

That does not follow. The fact that some people are still stupidly bigoted despite the progress we have made hitherto does not mean that endeavouring to enlighten them is a futile enterprise. And I don't accept that the right to an opinion extends to a right to not have that opinion challenged.

 

Have you been assessed for Asperger's Syndrome?

 

Got Adhd. Seeing a psychiatrist about possible Asperger's and depression within a couple of weeks.

[Lorem Ipsum]

The fact that some people are still stupidly bigoted despite the progress we have made hitherto does not mean that endeavouring to enlighten them is a futile enterprise.

As you are proving spectacularly right here.

[TimmyBoy]

As you are proving spectacularly right here.

 

How so? Am I a bigot now?

[mhowe]

No Timmmy...it was the "endeavoring to enlighten them is a futile exercise" part.

[TimmyBoy]

No Timmmy...it was the "endeavoring to enlighten them is a futile exercise" part.

 

Then the analogy doesn't follow.

 

As you pointed out, the impasse we have reached is due to a fundamental difference in our world views. You think people have a right to judge others by whatever criteria they wish without having those judgements challenged, whereas I think that is profoundly unreasonable.

[mhowe]

No Timmy...I fundamentally do not believe that people have a right to judge others.

I choose to live my life my my morals and value system.

I don't give a rats butt whether you judge them to be logical or reasonable. I have no need to defend them.

Likewise, I don't care whether you wish to subscribere to Wicca or Goth or whatever other belief system. Your life...your choice. It has zero affect on my life.

 

What I don't have to do is listen to you lament that everybody judges you. Most people really don't care what others think about them. You apparently do.

 

You would be wise to seek validation internally instead of externally.

[TimmyBoy]

No Timmy...I fundamentally do not believe that people have a right to judge others.

 

Then why should I let these people get away with it?

 

I choose to live my life my my morals and value system.

I don't give a rats butt whether you judge them to be logical or reasonable. I have no need to defend them.

 

So you don't think people are accountable for how they treat others?

 

Likewise, I don't care whether you wish to subscribere to Wicca or Goth or whatever other belief system. Your life...your choice. It has zero affect on my life.

 

That's not the point. Also, goth is not a belief system, it has nothing to do with Wicca, and I am neither.

 

What I don't have to do is listen to you lament that everybody judges you. Most people really don't care what others think about them. You apparently do.

 

You would be wise to seek validation internally instead of externally.

 

Firstly, please read my earlier posts. Active social life. Generally get on well with people.

 

Secondly , I care about what people think to the extent that I have to find a way, for the sake of my own sanity, to get by in a world that is not as fair or reasonable as it should be. I am satisfied that I am a good person, pending any compelling argument to the contrary, but all this conflict is draining. I am not at university anymore, so I do not have the luxury of vetting everyone I spend time with. Leaving university was a big reminder to me that school playground social hierarchies and gossip-bullying still exist. And when it comes to dating, it is hard to dig my heels in on matters of principle if it means being single forever.

[mhowe]

The simple truth is that the world/society is not always fair or reasonable.

Bad things happen to good people.

However...it is the only world there is.

The solution is to adapt.

[TimmyBoy]

The simple truth is that the world/society is not always fair or reasonable.

Bad things happen to good people.

However...it is the only world there is.

The solution is to adapt.

 

So I have to cave?

 

I am glad we are finally on the same page.

[SapphireNoir10]

Thread has run it's course. Closed.