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Destined to fail?


cbjjensen

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I've never posted on one of these sites, but this one seems to be filled with honest, and straight-forward people. Anyway, I really hope you guys can help.

 

First, I need to start off with a few things. This is going to be REALLY long, and you're actually going to get a small history lesson. Me and my girlfriend have been dating for a little over a year now. Also, it should be said that I love my girlfriend, and I think that I will marry her one day. That said, there are obviously problems at times - otherwise I wouldn't be writing this down. I just want to know what are the likely outcomes, and how we can possibly fix our issues.

 

I need to admit a few things, and mainly because I admittedly screwed up at the beginning of our relationship. I take full responsibility, and I completely acknowledged that I should not have done what I did. The story starts off as good, but you will see that where things became shaky, and why they still have an effect on us today. I was sitting in my dorm room, and I left my door open. I was alone, and my roommate was gone. Then, suddenly a girl from the other side of the hall walked in with her roommate. I wanted to show off, so I played a song for the pretty one (my now girlfriend), and asked her if she liked it. She said yes, and you can pretty much guess where things go from there. It was only a few weeks later that we started dating, and quickly fell for each other. However, as I foreshadowed above, things went badly very shortly after. The cause of so much of our distress started as a night of her and I alone in her room. I had told her that I wanted to go out with some friends that night to a party, and she had not said it bothered her. We were still in the EXTREME lovey-dovey stage, and telling each other no, wasn't really an option. I could see that she was hesitant, but for some reason, I badly wanted to go out. When my friends called to tell me they were ready, I could tell she didn't want me to go, and I even told her that I would not go - I told her that I would feel bad. But then, I commenced to begging her to go. As I look back on this, I see it as extremely Pathetic. However... It only gets worse from here. As I began to leave, I told her that I would come back later that night, and that I loved her for the first time. Like a kid that tells their mom they love her because she let the child have something. And yes, you read that right, you don't need to do a double take and read it twice more. It still gets worse, though. That night I went out and I never came back to see her. It also turned out later that she is against the use of alcohol.

 

From here, you would predict that she would have broken up with me. But, something that I did not mention earlier, this was her first relationship. She did not want her first relationship to be a relationship that was a failure, because she is/was a Hopeless Romantic. She did not want to believe/consider that she had fallen for an like me. Luckily for me, she didn't end it there. However, that night is one that she hasn't forgotten, and probably one that she hasn't forgiven me for. From there, all trust was lost, and I've had to earn it back slowly. We've talked about it a lot, and I've definitely changed since - I Don't party anymore, and I'm not as immature as I was then. I promise you. I realize now that the stupid stuff I did then was completely out of bounds, and that I shouldn't have done it to her, because NOBODY deserves that. However, it has become an issue in our relationship. As you all know, trust is an important part of a relationship. But, because of her inability to have COMPLETE trust in me, I've had to sacrifice a lot - This includes my friends. Since then, I have not 'hung out' with my friends. Part of me understands that in order for this relationship to work, it is necessary. The other part of me still wants to hang out with my friends. I love my girlfriend, but most people need 'guy-time,' or at least I do. I mean, all I want to do now is play Xbox or something. The dilemma, though, is that she cannot trust my guy friends. By now, a year later, she tells me that I have gained her full trust again, but I dispute it. I feel that if full trust was gained, she would be able to trust me, and not have to worry about my friends. Again, though, I am the one that messed up.

 

Keeping all of this in mind, there is more at which I am trying to get at. I love my girlfriend, I do think that this stuff can be solved, and in general our relationship is awesome, but there are still problems that I am about to address that I believe have arisen because of the previously described incident. I think that me being the way I was in the beginning of the relationship, I basically forfeited all of the power over to her - especially when we argue. She is the type of girl that can never be wrong. For example, today (this is a stupid dumb argument and really holds no value, but I'm making a point!), we had an argument about when the assembly line was created/(discovered?). We are probably both wrong about the ACTUAL person who created it, but she had said that Henry Ford was the creator/inventor/discoverer, and that it must have been discovered in the 1800's. I didn't really have an idea who created it, or whatever, but I corrected her on that Ford didn't start using the assembly line until the 1910's (or at least notoriously - to which she was referring to), so it couldn't be possible for it to be in the 1800's. Soooooo we looked it up on Wiki, and it said that it was in 1903 that Ford started manufacturing vehicles. From there, she scrolled up, and saw that Ford was born on 1863, and that he was an Engineering entrepreneur and around 1896 he began building his first vehicle. She then told me that she was right, and that I was wrong. However, I pointed out that Assembly lines wouldn't have been used to make one car. She then said "I wasn't arguing about the assembly lines, I was saying that Ford was making cars in the 1800's." It escalated from there with me confronting her about never admitting she is wrong. I think that that really set her off. and at one point, she threatened me with saying "if you continue to make me mad, I'm going to say something really hurtful." I told her to, because I don't want her to hold anything back from me - I want her to be honest, even if it is out of emotion ( I just wish she would control it better. What she said WAS extremely hurtful, but she said it in a non-attacking way - almost like a robot responding to a command because I told her to do so. She said that "I can't blame your mom for leaving you when you were 10." And if you're wondering where that came from: The reason she said that is because we were talking about my mother prior to the argument.

 

At this point, I'm just going to source an article(I am not allowed to post links, sorry! ) I found online and say:

"For women like this, to admit a defect is an impossibility in their view and they will do whatever is necessary, including insulting and even hurting people around them, to keep from seeing their own flaws or limitations. It is very sad for them and for the people around them. Women like this have psychological problems and unless they're in complete control, they will never be happy." For her, most of this matches up. She does insult me, and she does have a psychological problem - she has General Anxiety Disorder - That said, I don't hold it all against her, because I have read plenty on it, and I know that it's not completely her fault. However, it all still hurts, and I just wish there was a way for us to better our relationship. At times she threatens me with breaking up when we argue, and I just feel completely crushed. I feel threatened by this. Sometimes it feels like a mind game and she is trying to be manipulative. It's one thing to say "I don't appreciate when you do X, and if you continue to do it, I will have to break up with you because it's unacceptable to me" It feels like I have no choice but to just give in. Its emotional terrorism. It's the ultimate threat in a relationship, and when she threatens to do it and doesn't, it's just toying with my emotions. I have gotten to the point where I have told her if she does it again, I will have to let her go. It does a lot of damage to me, and I find myself crying every time she says it. Also, I have also confronted her about how she never 'acknowledges' being wrong and she agrees that at times she does do it, she also says that she will try and improve. However, I get a feeling that this is more of a way for her to SAY she is going to, but when the moment hits, it isn't really going to transfer down, because when she is angry, she is unable to control herself.

 

What Can I/We do?

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Ah, another "I am a saint and my gf is an emotional terrorist" thread.

 

Listen, if you are going to buy into the idea that your gf has "psychological problems" and "emotional terrorism" then you shouldn't be in this relationship.

 

Now I don't minimize the negative impact her behavior has on you. You don't like it and it makes you feel bad. If you feel like you have told her how it makes you feel and it continues, there is nothing more you can do. You frankly have two options: accept it as the dynamic of your relationship or walk away.

 

You cannot say something is unacceptable and then continue to accept it. It just creates the unsaid expectation that this is simply the dynamic of your relationship.

 

I find, sometimes, that when one person seems to have the power and the other one seems/feels powerless, there is a reason. The one with the power feels like the "powerless" one is weak. I don't get the sense she really respects you. And if she is treating you in a way that you express is hurtful and she still does it, it may confirm that she simply doesn't respect you.

 

I don't say this to say: "OK, here's how to change her." I am saying, I think this is how she sees you. You can try to have a "final" conversation with her where YOU are willing to walk away unless you can get some therapy and change your dynamic. But short of that, I don't see her having any motivation to shift her attitude towards you.

 

Similarly, you really need to shift your attitude towards her. Casting yourself as a victim will keep you from taking any real action. Casting her as all of those negative things may ignore some very real feelings she has towards you that you need to surface and talk about.

 

As much as you might not like to hear it, I think part of the reason she may interact with you as she does is because she has a different value system as you. She doesn't believe in drinking or hanging out with the guys. If you are doing things outside of her value system, this may impact the things she wants from you. And you clearly do not want to live your life according to all of her values - which is unerstandable. That suggests incompatibility.

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Not to be rude, but I never said I was the victim. I definitely messed up at the beginning of the relationship, and have told her that it is my fault. Also, she has General Anxiety Disorder, and does in fact have a 'psychological' problem. She's on medication, and visits a therapist. Additionally, that is not how I worded it, that is how the article worded it. Also, what I mean by 'terrorism' is that I feel that I am being manipulated. Too strong, perhaps.

 

In no way my intent to push the blame on her. I know that a large part of this has to do with my doings at the beginning. And as far as drinking goes, I really don't NEED alcohol in my life. I don't mind giving up something like that. I'm compromising that, and I really have no complains as long as I can be with her. And, as far as friends go, she only has issues with my friends because she is afraid that I will betray her and drink with them - had the incident never occurred, she has told me herself that she wouldn't have a problem with them (or at least until something did happen).

 

What I'm hoping for, is not a solution to my friends or the alcohol - that was more of a story, so that people on the thread could understand why I think she constantly threatens me with breaking up.

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I think that you do have a choice, but you are trying to turn her into someone she has no interest in being, just as she's hell bent on turning you into someone you're not.

 

Your relationship was doomed when she was manipulating you into not going out with your friends that first night. You were still just getting to know one another--she had absolutely no business trying to coerce you into dumping your friends, who you've known way longer, to spend with her. Now, look where that has gotten you. You have no friends. Like a child, you are not allowed to choose your friends and hang with them; I'm going to assume you're old enough to drink, so even there, you're not allowed to go do that.

 

It's fine that she doesn't want to drink and it's fine that she only wants to date guys who don't drink---but you do. You like going out. She rejected you on the first day and keeps rejecting you for who you are.

 

Also, it is beyond reprehensible for her to say what she said about your mother. On that tip alone, I would have told her that it was over between us. You have to understand where saying something like that to another person comes from, and it doesn't come from a place of love and understanding. It comes from a place of darkness in her soul. She knows nothing about your dynamics with your mother except what little you've told her, yet she took the time to fashion that information into a weapon to drop onto you when she was losing her end of a losing argument. That was a personal attack and it had no place in any discourse you would have had with her.

 

I think that you need to take a gigantic step back from her and go find your self, which you set adrift in order to have her in your life. I think that once you've retrieved your self, you will find that this chick isn't everything that that part of you that is desperate to keep her seems to think that she is.

 

She does not accept you for who you are and she never will. That is "what is" here. Her need to be right is evident of that. Her need to fling painful things in your past in your teeth is evident of that.

 

She is a master manipulator and she probably gets away with it because of her looks, but you know what, hon? That mess gets really old, really fast. You will get sick of the manipulation eventually. There are other women out there who do not need to exert control on this scale on you and are not threatened by your friends, have no problem trusting you.

 

What went down in the beginning should not have been turned into her being able to evict your friends from your life. You are a grown man. YOu are allowed to choose your friends and hang with them whenever. Trust me, if you call her bluff, she will be the one who backs down. And you need to start calling her bluff.

 

Call your boys and go hang with them tonight. If she doesn't like it, then you can tell her "obviously, your issue is that you dont' trust me or my judgment and I can no longer be with someone who cannot trust me or my judgment. I'm going to take some time to rethink the wisdom of being in a relationship with you over the course of the next couple of weeks. I'll let you know what conclusions I reach after the first of the year". And let her squirm and twist on the line with that in mind. I dare say, you will find out that all the things she doesn't trust you for will be things she herself will act out on.

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To me, your whole last paragraph is pretty clearly about blame. Having GAD and being on medication means to me that she has taken steps to deal with whatever challenges she has and is entirely responsible for her behavior/she is able to control herself. Call feeling manipulated being the "victim" or not, I basically said you should "put up or shut up" and make it clear that you will indeed let her go if certain behaviors continue. I would not make this about trying to change her. I would make this about determining where your boundaries are, enforcing them, and walking away when needed.

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Thank you both, for your responses. Darcy, I appreciate what you're saying about 'put up or shut up,' and I think that once she does cross the line again, I will do what Kendahke recommended (except for maybe the calling the boys thing - they all left to visit family for the holidays (as did I)).

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NO matter what, you have every right to go out with your friends and have friends. That should NOT change for you.

It is very highly suggested to have a social life! You do BOTH need to have your separate lives continue.

 

You cannot change her, change is her choice. You also should not give up your friends for your gf.

If she's got 'problems' that's for her to deal with. Maybe she should get something for her 'anxiety' to help deal with it?

 

Obviously you two have a few issues. Do YOU want to keep up a life like this with someone? Is it worth your sanity & friendships with your buddies?

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Maybe she should get something for her 'anxiety' to help deal with it?

 

Obviously you two have a few issues. Do YOU want to keep up a life like this with someone? Is it worth your sanity & friendships with your buddies?

 

She's taking medicine for the anxiety. And, as far as wanting to stay with her, yes. Something in me tells me that over time I will eventually gain enough trust to hang out with them. I feel pathetic type that.

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CBJ, is her only fear that you will end up drinking with the guys or, rather, is she also fearful that you will "betray her" by spending time with other girls? That is, do you see any strong signs she is a very jealous person who is afraid you may abandon her?

 

I'm not so sure which it is more - the Alcohol thing, or the Girl thing. She is a very jealous person. She even admits to being one, herself. She doesn't like it when I talk to other girls, and me talking to girls has caused arguments in the past.

 

For example:

 

One time we were both at a small store (about gas station sized) buying snacks, and as we were checking out, I noticed these chocolate balls sitting on the counter. I asked the cashier, who happened to be female, if they were any good. She said that she liked them, and that the white chocolate ones were her favorite. After we left, girlfriend was upset at me, and said that I was flirting with her. I'm not an extremely flirtatious guy, and I don't try to come off as one. I definitely don't believe that I was flirty with the cashier, but maybe it was something in my voice - I guess only a spectator of the event would really know, or maybe I shouldn't have asked in the first place??? Things like that happen quite often, though. It has gotten to the point where I try to avoid even making eye contact with girls, to avoid any conflict.

 

Edit: Another thing to add - She hates other women - EXCEPT for elderly ones (to her, they are cute). My guess is that she sees most women as a threat.

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This chick has got too many issues that OP is not equipped to handle by virtue of the fact that he's not a pscyhotherapist. She needs that more than she needs an enabling, co-dependent boyfriend, which is what OP is suggesting that he himself turn into in order to keep her in his life.

 

OP, you're never going to earn her trust--that's the whole thing. It was never on the table from the get go. YOu can't even have a conversation with a cashier without your girlfriend losing her dash darn mind. Just how many years of your youth are you willing to waste behind this mess?

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Poppa,

 

Thanks for putting in so much time to create such a lengthy post. The more and more I read into what you've said, the more and more I am beginning to think that she does have BPD. Of course, I am not able to diagnose her myself, as I am not a professional, but the 'red-flags' are definitely there. The splitting is definitely apparent,. She definitely categorizes people as 'good' or 'bad,' and honestly, every single one of the things you've said rings a bell. Thank you SO MUCH for posting this. I will look more into BPD before scheduling anything with a psychologist, as I do not want to go based off of false accusations/presumptions and sound unintelligent.

 

I know most of everyone has suggested that I just end it, but I love her so much. Even though she does cause me/us/our relationship distress, I feel like there is a way that we can make it through this and figure out a way to solve it.

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After reading some of your other posts on other threads, I feel that it is important that I add a few things:

 

Her Infatuation period probably ended after 2-3 months, as that was when the 'guys night out' was really brought up, and we discussed it a lot.

She was Abandoned - Her father completely left her family.

 

She was at, one time, Suicidal in her life - 7th or 8th grade. She told me that she would cut her wrists. She says that she was depressed.

 

Trama - If I were an expert, which I am not, a lot of her pain has come from when she moved away from Florida when she was a young girl. She has told me that the experience of losing all of her friends at her Christian school really impacted her life. She left Florida in the middle of her 6th grade year. She told me that she had even felt replaced when a friend of hers from the Christian School told her that there was a girl 'just like her,' and that they would have been great friends if she never left. Additionally, it seems that she has ever really let go of it. I feel like even her computer passwords constantly remind her of the event (She has the title of her school's acronym as part of her Passwords for most websites she visits uses - including facebook).

 

She has Difficult time controlling her emotions - Even happy ones. I don't really know how to explain the happiness, but she punches pillows, throws tantrums, screams, she would hurt herself - either by squeezing her wrists and digging her fingernails into her arms, or punching her legs. There doesn't seem to be a medium unhappy. Unhappiness usually leads to tears.

 

When we are happy together, she is extremely 'adoring' of me.

 

 

Also... This scares me

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you can't solve what a psychotherapist hasn't been able to solve yet. Love doesn't do that.

 

Relationships work only when both halves come to it whole within themselves. She's fragmented in the extreme. She needs way more psychotherapy in order to reach a workable plateau in order to be in a relationship. There is no "making it through this". This is a medication thing, a brain disfunction thing, not a "love that needs to be worked on" thing. Know the difference.

 

You can love her all day long and still not be equipped to handle her psychological issues.

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CBJ, I'm glad to hear you found the BPD information to be helpful.Cutting is STRONGLY associated with BPD. Indeed, self harming (such as cutting and punching oneself) is one of the nine defining traits of BPD and thus is used in diagnosing it. BPDers usually do not do the arm cutting to kill themselves but, rather, to get relief from their terrible emotional pain (by externalizing it to the surface of their bodies). A 2004 study of hospital admissions (for cutters and other self mutilaters) concluded that,

The majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma.
See
link removed
.

 

I should have been more precise by what I meant. She did not use cutting as a means to kill herself. It was something that she did. What I meant is that she had thoughts of killing herself, and often formulated plans on how to execute the act. The thing that stopped her was her faith. She has, however, told me that since then, she believes that even if she did kill herself, God would forgive the act. She says that she's been a good person, and that that shouldn't stop Him from allowing her into heaven.

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First of all I think you need to get out of the mindset that you wronged her. What you did is in the grand scheme of your relationship pretty minor and it's debatable whether you messed up at all. Kissing another girl or full blown cheating would be a huge mistake. All you did was go out drinking and lost track of time - pretty normal. It's really unreasonable of her to hold this against you for so long and you are only making things worse by playing into it. Stop torturing yourself and start asserting yourself or you are only going to feel more unhappy and resentful towards her. Is it really worth sacrificing your friends to appease her insecurities? She clearly has some very serious trust issues.

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Poppa,

 

you said:

It therefore is important that the BPDer not be given a free pass to behave like a spoiled child and get away with it. Instead, she should be held fully responsible for her actions and should be allowed to suffer the logical consequences of those actions. To do otherwise means you are destroying her only opportunities -- her only incentives -- to confront her issues and learn how to better manage her own emotions.

 

What do you mean logical consequences? I understand that I shouldn't 'let her get away' with things, but I don't know what exactly is the right thing to do. Do you just mean - if she does things that I ask her not to do, i.e threatening to break up with me me, that I should follow through with the breakup? If so, what about personal attacks, and irrational outbursts?

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I see a few things here.

1. You should be able to go visit your friends and she should be able to go visit hers.

You should introduce her to your friends and you to hers.

You should develop a relationship with her friends and she with yours.

Once you've met each other's friends and have gotten to know them, you should both be comfortable letting the other go with their friends.

Notice the way I've stated this, it goes both ways. I'm not saying you do these things; I'm just saying everything goes both ways.

 

She should not prohibit you from seeing your friends.

You should not prohibit her from seeing hers.

The fact that she was trying to control so much of your life this early in the relationship is kind of disconcerting.

 

You were wrong to not come back when you said you would; she was wrong to pout because you wanted to go be with your friends. She needs to take the time and get to know your friends. They are a part of who you are. You need to do the same with hers.

 

If you enjoy drinking on occasion, that's something she needs to accept. If you're someone who drinks all the time, or gets drunk more than a few times a month, then maybe you should seek help. There is nothing wrong with her wanting to be a tea-totaler, but there is also nothing wrong with you going out on occasion and having a couple of beers (2-3) with friends.

 

2. Making threats to leave if you continue to do X-behavior. Well, I guess it depends on the behavior.

For example: If she threatens to leave because you want to see your friends once or twice a month, let her go. She is being unreasonable, psychological disorder or not.

If she threatens to leave because you are chatting with other women on line in sex-chat rooms, well, you are disrespecting her she has every right to ask you to cease and desist. You didn't elaborate so I'm just giving examples.

 

You both have to make adjustments. Not just you, and not just her. If she is unwilling to compromise then you are better off without her. If she expects you to make all the compromises, same deal. If you are unwilling to be a little flexible with her because of her psychological condition, then she should leave you.

 

You should not make all the sacrifices, and neither should she.

 

3. It sounds like she can't trust anyone. Honestly, what you did in the beginning was hurtful, but if I read your story correctly, it was also in the very early stages of your relationship where you were still in the getting to know each other phase. You were wrong to not come back when you said you would, but it's not like you lied about what you'd be doing, where you'd be or with whom. Or did you? (I don't know... just putting that out there). And the jealousy thing with the cashier? Again, you didn't do anything wrong. She was out of line, BPD or not.

 

The biggest questions here are: 1. Are you willing to deal with her extreme psychological issues for the rest of your life and, 2) can she ever learn to handle the fact that she won't get things her way every time without throwing a temper tantrum?

 

If the answer is "No" to EITHER of these questions, then cut your losses.

 

Of course, it's easy to sit here and arm-chair quarterback....

 

Good luck...

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Thank you for the materials. I haven't clicked on them yet, as I figure they will be a lengthy read, but I will get on it. Again though, thank you so much for the amount of time that you are putting into writing all of this.

 

Just an FYI- this particular poster suggests BPD to almost every person on ENA. There is a personal agenda there.

 

I think you would be wasting your time reading about what you speculate could be wrong with your girlfriend. Diagnosing people we're having troubles with rarely leads to anything good.

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I see a few things here.

Once you've met each other's friends and have gotten to know them, you should both be comfortable letting the other go with their friends.

Notice the way I've stated this, it goes both ways. I'm not saying you do these things; I'm just saying everything goes both ways.

 

She should not prohibit you from seeing your friends.

You should not prohibit her from seeing hers.

The fact that she was trying to control so much of your life this early in the relationship is kind of disconcerting.

 

 

I know you say that we 'should' be comfortable letting each other, but she isn't. She doesn't like my friends because they are, in her mind, the ones that could potentially cause damage to our relationship. To her, that night was a big deal, and even mentioning hanging out with them causes an argument. It always goes back to that night.

 

2. Making threats to leave if you continue to do X-behavior. Well, I guess it depends on the behavior.

 

I think that you may have misread that part. I was saying that she DOESN'T say things like that. For example, what she does is more along the lines of: I can't handle this, and threatens me with breaking up if I continue to stand up for myself. That is, because I am not being a doormat to her at that moment, she wants to break up with me. This means to me that she has very little respect for what I want vs what she wants.

 

Just an FYI- this particular poster suggests BPD to almost every person on ENA. There is a personal agenda there.

 

I noticed this. But, a thing that I had not mentioned, is that my GF had previously mentioned that she thought that she might have BPD a few months ago. I told her that she should tell her therapist about it, and that they should discuss it. I found it interesting that someone else here thought that, and wanted to get more information on it - although, I do realize I could have Google/wiki searched it.

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