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Women - just because you can dose not mean you should -


ricketyfence

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How can this go on?

I would like to introduce you to Phil & Sue they have been married for 14 years and in the time have 3 beautiful kids who are the world to both parents. Phil who runs his own business makes a sufficient money so that Sue, who has always want to be a mum can stay at home to raise the kids.

They are about half way through paying off their mortgage for a $500,000 home and Phil has around 300,000 in super.

Phill & Sue divorce

The lawyers get the greater share of any cash that was in savings, the house and most of the super goes to Sue.

Phil, rents a small apartment a continues to service both the home loan and the rental payments and even though he has 50/ 50 care pays additional money because Sue will not work and even if she does she can earn up to $40,000 before the amount of child support Phil has to pay is reduced. Additionally, Sue understanding her rights she reduces visitations by declaring the kids are sick or just doesn’t answer the phone. Sue then says that he is abusive towards her so she can raise an AVO to reduce visitation all together or at least restricts them to no overnight visits, or the transfer has to be made via a 3rd party making everything more difficult. The kids now only hear Sue’s side and become increasing hostile to Phil who starts to feel his whole world fall apart around him .

There is a plague on society and its middle age men who have lost all hope for the future. I feel for all my fellow man that has undergone this turmoil of divorce and the agony of loss of assets. In Australia it's too hard to start again once your down and out and get a few bad credit ratings your life is over as the bottom of the heap is a long way to crawl out from.

This disempowered man no longer given any control of his life and loosing and sense of belonging (Maslow’s hierarchy of needs) falls into depression and ultimely has no purpose commits suicide.

We need to wake up as a society and deal with this plague that has become an epidemic which no politician wants to touch. How can this go on any longer the only people who are winning from this are the lawyers (who are also the politicians making the laws which I liken to the Doctor who owns the chemist next door) and the mother of the kids who get a house a car and superannuation all for doing something they were placed on Earth to do. What was mans purpose was he placed here only to Man to provide? Dose he not deserve some piece of the pie we call life. Why is this inequality allowed to exist? Will we find future generations of Man too scared to enter relationships for fear of failure and subsequent loss of everything they have accumulated?

Please women because the government won’t touch this, make sure that your EX isn’t driven to the point of suicide, allow him the freedom to grow his wealth and in turn so shall you reap the rewards trough his Endeavour’s but stifle him through short term gain for yourself and you will cut the hand that feeds you.

 

Women - just because you can dose not mean you should -

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Well that's a gross generalisation. There are also plenty of men who hide their assets to deny their spouse a share, or minimise their earnings to ensure they avoid child support, or file for bankruptcy leaving their ex-wife with no choice but to file as well as she can no longer service the mortgage herself and the bank is chasing her.

 

Both men and women do dirty things in the course of divorce and child custody and support issues. You are kidding yourself if you think only one gender is getting the short end of the stick. I know both men and women who have been left with debt, or bankruptcy, or struggled to gain access to their children after a divorce.

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Hi Tinkie,

 

I was not out to offend but raise attention to the issue which is the high rates of suicide in divorced middle age men and the correlation between loss access to children and assets.

 

To me the tactic’s you expressed in evasion of child support payments would be used in desparation and sporned from necessity

 

I think what you wrote is incorrect, it is the man that gets shafted disproportionately emotionally and financially in this situation but just to give you the facts;

 

1. The suicide rate for middle-aged men was 27.3 deaths per 100,000, while for women it was 8.1 deaths per 100,000 (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

2. Men kill themselves at much higher rates than do women and are more likely to commit suicide when they get disconnected from society's core institutions e.g., marriage, religion (The Atlantic)

3. Divorce or marital separation more than doubled the risk of suicide in men, whereas in women, marital status was unrelated to suicide. (Emphasis mine)

 

Say what you will but this is an epidemic and you can push it all you want from the woman side as that seems to be to only thing that is noticed.

 

Tinkie, men are dying every day from this and yes everyone has responsibility over there own actions and thoughts.

 

But to me the person that has the best ability to have a direct impact on this is the ex... she needs to see past her own feelings and concentrate on what the individuals needs are(non violoent communication)

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oh hell yeah I have seen all this ...

 

when the uk brought in the CSA ...(child support agency) men where dropping like flies ...honestly it was horrific ..

 

on the one hand there are so many men who have chidren and never put their hand in their pocket ..so everyone at first thought this was going to sort the boys out from the men ...but ..there are the decent ones , who have moved on , maybe started another family but have constant contact with their children and support them . they got screwed over big time ..running two households ...not allowed to have a life because the CSA took such a huge percentage of any decent wage .

 

It has changed here now , it couldn't carry on that way , I kid you not , men , like you say where pushed to the point of no return .

 

and yes ...some women ...they make me so angry, they will blackmail , they will use their children , they say innapropriate things to their children about dad ..cut contact , make excuses , ruin you financially ...

 

but again ..the other side of the coin, there are men who don't see their children , who refuse to acknowledge them , who leave women with the baby and the bill .

 

I agree with all your points .... but it works both ways my friend ..some of us on here have lived the other side ...

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I'm not pushing it "from the woman's side", I'm saying that both genders do inexcusable things in the course of a relationship breakdown and that it should be "just because you can doesn't mean you should" not merely saying women should do that. The way people conduct themselves in the course of a marriage breakdown comes down to personal character more than gender. And yes a lot of things need changing in the Australia system including visitation and child support enforcement. But I don't think making it a gender issue solves the problem when ultimately what you need to be changing is the character of the people involved.

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Totally agree. Disgusting generalisation. Not all women are like this. I am certainly not.

 

My ex-sister-in-law was divorced by her husband. Being an accountant he knew ways to "hide" his money and assets and whilst he was living the "life of Riley" she was struggling to make ends meet for her and her 3 children. I also have a friend who has a friend who's husband had countless affairs. They were very well off and lived in a huge house. His children also went to private school. He eventually left her and somehow he has got away with barely having to give them anything. The children were taken out of private school and she had to move into a rented, council house that wasn't big enough for all of them and was damp and dirty. Meanwhile he still lives in his big house, drives flash cars and has numerous holidays a year. She is working all the hours she can to provide her children (who he seems to have forgotten about) with as good a quality of life as possible.

 

These are the only two absurd stories I have. I do NOT know of any women taking the husband "to the cleaners" - though I am sure it can happen.

 

Whatever, it can work both ways. It depends on the person not the gender.

 

It can also depend on the circumstances. A lot of these things are reactions to pain and emotion. If someone is hurt they make silly and irrational choices because they want the other person to hurt too. Not saying that is cool but it happens.

 

So, please, be careful before you make such generalisations because there are more than just your one experience out there.

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This is one of the biggest reasons why I don't want children and at this point, no marriage either. Too much can go terribly wrong and lots of people get screwed.

 

It makes me feel extremely lucky to be a woman though. Men definitely get the short end of the stick in these scenarios, generally. Still, I think it's in my better interests to avoid entangling myself with a partner with kids/marriage. Those things are forever and human relationships rarely are.

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To add:

 

My daughter's bf barely sees his dad. His dad is living a new life now, with a new wife and has had another child. He lives in a decent house, drives a decent car and takes his family away on holiday every year. His mother, however, has two jobs and still can't afford holidays. My daughter's boyfriend doesn't hear from his father and hasn't had a birthday or christmas present from him in years. Nothing really horrendous here but it certainly didn't pan out that "just because she was a woman she could".

 

My own ex-husband left me for another women. I, and our 3 children, had to move into a much smaller property whilst he moved his mistress (and her daughter) into what was meant to be our dream home. They were having 2 holidays a year (sometimes he took our children, sometimes not). It was 4 years before I could afford a holiday with my children and I haven't had another one since. I don't resent my ex-husband. He is no longer with that woman (who eventually tried to destroy his relationship with his children). He still supports us - but no more than he has too - and things are very amicable between us but it wasn't a great journey getting there. In the beginning he was so wrapped up with his new woman that he couldn't help but rub his new relationship in our faces. She was a nasty piece of work and would post pictures of them "redecorating" the house that we had been painstakingly renovating for the last two years. Her daughter also sent a video clip to my daughter showing her spitting in her make-up that my daughter had left there and another panning what used to be my daughter's bedroom saying how it was now HER bedroom and how my daughter's dad was now "her dad". As much as my ex supports and loves his children, for a while he would turn a blind eye on the hell this woman and her daughter put us through. I never really categorised my own situation as being another other than normal when marriages break down. It, as many situations do, eventually settled into something more amicable.

 

Also in relation to my first post. One of these women suffered severe depression. So much so that the children had to live with the grandparents for a while. With the help and support of friends and family and, of course, the unconditional love of her children who needed her more than ever, she managed to get through it.

 

Honestly the more I think about it, the more your post bothers me because I have no stories that back up your point of view (though I am not so silly as to think it doesn't happen). However, I know of plenty of women whose husband's chose to have affairs and eventually leave them and the children and whilst enjoying their new lives, their old one (including the children) are pretty much forgotten about (for a while anyway). However, again, I am not so bold as to make a sweeping generalisation that ALL men are like this.

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I think you are still missing the point it’s about men and suicide and how in some situations it can be adverted by increased child access & only taking what you (ex) need to live.

It's about, just because you can pull him to pieces it's actually not in everyone best interests and in most cases (never black and white in this)

emotional and Financially both parties can be better off it the father is not only around but financially stable as this will flow through and enrich all lives.

 

divided even here as who's "to blame" everyone known’s someone who has been shafted by the system and thread is for the guys who are trying to do the right thing.

 

But most Importantly,

 

What I really want to express is that there is right now, men out there who are middle age, divorced, disconnected and alone and contemplating suicide or indeed performing the act.

 

I do not blame women for this they are trying to provide as best they can in this expensive world, but you need to keep an eye on your ex.... handle with care ...... as the cash cow your squeezing, could choke and then the hole that was there gets that little bigger

kids if they will learn by you seeing empathy, (the people most loved in society where humanitarians) they will remmeber that you were kind even though you didnt "have to be" which is the most important thing.

 

You will ultimately choose how you deal or don't with your ex but empathy will empower you and your family and allow healing, hatered will stiffle you

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I will have to ask my mother exactly how many support payments she got. Oh yeah ! When he felt like it. If he didn't run out of money going out to eat every day or spending it on alcohol or girlfriends. I guess when my mother didn't eat so that she could feed us he didn't worry about that too much.

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As I said above one of these women suffered severe depression and was on the brink of suicide. A mum at my daughter's school told me that when her husband left her for a much younger woman (basically a girl still at 19) who was pregnant with his child she had "suicidal thoughts". Both of these woman got through these serious bouts of depression mainly because of their children.

 

I am not saying that what your friend is going through isn't awful or that it should ever be allowed to get to that stage but you made a rather sweeping generalisation and for me, and every other woman out there struggling to bring up their children alone, I am NOT missing the point you made there either. When my ex-husband left us I did NOT retaliate by trying to squeeze even more money out of my ex than what me and his children were entitled to and I don't know of anyone else who, as a single parent, has done that either. Most are struggling trying to make ends meet and are constantly trying to juggle both being a parent and working and that "piece of pie that is life" is actually non-existant outside of work and parenting. As I also said above I know it can happen but I have only seen it happen the "other way".

 

I only hope your friend has the support of friends and family to help see him through this difficult time. Hopefully, when emotions have settled, his ex-wife will be able to see what her actions are doing and that using her children against him is not cool. Even when parents are no longer together, they still need each other and the children benefit from having both sets of parents, especially when they can be civil with each other. Yesterday, in fact, both my ex-husband and I were together at my ex-mother-in-laws house and even though he is in another relationship we were able to talk, joke and laugh together. There was a time, however, when I hated him and when he couldn't see "the wood for the trees" and didn't want to communicate with me because it would upset his new gf (or rather mistress). She would do everything she could to manipulate the little time he DID spend with his children so they were left fending for themselves whilst they entertained her friends and family and he allowed it because he refused to see what she was doing (at first anyway). Our arguments got so bad that he said he would fight for custody of the children. He didn't want to do that and he never would or did do that. It was said out of anger ... as I also said a lot of things out of anger (mostly a character assassination - it was never about not letting him see the children or taking him for every penny he has though).

 

Things do have a way of settling down in time and as long as both sides can gain some civil ground on which they can start to communicate properly. That, however, can take time.

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It greatly concerns me as well, because all the signs right now are saying "DON'T GET MARRIED!"

 

On the upside, getting married general leads to a common estate, which means instead of renting you're building an asset. Further, this is a time when children are meant to happen, with two parents. Finally, there's the tax benefits, which are 4 and 5 figures a year on the tax return, the single payer medical plan that comes with my job, and all the benefits afforded by that network.

 

But let us suppose our spouse doesn't work - because she decides not to work. In the old days, this would be fine, and it is part of what allows such big tax returns. But now everything in her lifestyle is a luxury that I am obligated to provide to her on infinitum.

 

Now people may say this parent has to not work to take care of the kids, but there are now way too many single parents who are working and raising their kids without being stay at home - so that "necessity" is removed.

 

I personally believe the system Does need to be revamped, because right now if one party is honest, it encourages the other party to take as much of the pie as they can [and they do]. This then encourages the party to be dishonest, which then saves themselves skin - or in some cases, some people will happily give it to the lawyers and the bankruptcy courts before they ever give it to their ex.

 

I know my dad changed everything about his outlook when his attorney laid the payment plan out at his feet and showed him that if he did indeed roll over, he'd pretty much lose everything. Even if he kept 50% of the property, after a decade of child support my mom would have all of that doo. So what'd he do?

 

He doubled down and threw the checkbook at the divorce. It was expensive, and he incurred a fair amount of debt, but in the end, he was able to convince the kids to live with him [all five], which wasn't hard because mom kept with the drug side of life while he played the golden fiddle. He never quite got the conclusion he wanted, but in the end, we got what was best for both him AND my mom.

 

A couple years later my mom divorced her second, and in that case it was real easy. He rolled over, gave her everything, and went accross town. His child support obligation is nil because he doesn't make anything or he's in jail, and my mom is stuck with a lot of stuff she can't use but isn't worth selling.

 

Both parents ended up going to bankruptcy court, which isn't at all what most people think it is. It's a good way of absolving bad debt, which is why it is there, and why people do it. The stigma against it is what keeps most people from filing, which is a good thing, because if that stigma was removed, banks would be failing by the end of the week!

 

So I'm lost on where to go next. I want to get married, but...I'm not attracted to the idea that half of my retirement will belong to my wife just because she was my wife. I saw it with my first ex, being a divorcee and a woman is a good gig! She moved into town with nothing but that $500 child support check from her first husband, and while that may not seem like much, rent here for her first apartment was a ridiculously low rate - bad complex, but low rate! She moved up quick from her position, making management within two years. There's a point at which the child support becomes a lifestyle subsidy...

 

Anyhow, the day starts...Now!

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And this is why marriage is an dead intitution. It is very simple just dont get married. From childhood people get mindfuc#@d into believing in marriage etc, just look at shrek, and all those cartoons. Later you start watching those movies in your teen years about a couple finding love and getting married, ALL these movies and cartoons always end with a happy marriage!!! Why dont they show people what really happens in marriages instead of that bul#$¤it of happily ever after. Im observing from the sidelines, each man and woman gets the hammer after a divorce. What a shame. This is what happens when men cheat and women jump into marriage coz all their friends did it. Reap what you sow. Im glad that ill never get married and have kids, unless of course im on drugs.

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People will still choose to have children together and cohabit even if they don't get married - otherwise life as we know it will cease to exist. If THAT relationship ends it can still be just as messy for either or both parties, even without the marriage.

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People will still choose to have children together and cohabit even if they don't get married - otherwise life as we know it will cease to exist. When THAT relationship ends it can still be just as messy for either or both party, even without the marriage.

 

Exacamundo. People are still hurt no matter what relationship that ends. You can be together 10 years and not marry and you will still hurt just as bad as if you were married. So those who do not marry are not escaping hurt. And in many cases you won't escape monetary impact either if you co habit for any length of time. The only way you won't get hurt is not be involved with people and do not use your heart.

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