Ex is hostile towards everything seeing the kid

[Cheetarah]

My perspective will always be more passionate and heated given that this is very near and dear to me. I am surprised I can even post on this thread without choice words sometimes. So I'll keep my response to that question concise:

 

Yes.

 

There's plenty to say about the abortion issue, but what I have to say is quite "debatable" which will just result in getting deleted, and in my perspective, completely irrelevant because there is now a human being living outside the womb who needs: Caretakers, love, support, encouragement, teachers, food, a place to lay their head, diapers, medical care, the list goes on.

 

The children do not ask to be born and certainly not into the particular situations they are brought into. Regardless if it was a choice made between two parents, a result of sneaky BC misuse, an accident or surprise, whatever the case may be - They're here, now. And they need to be taken care of. And nurtured to grow into functioning adults. It's not about what this ex did or that ex did, it's about this little person who is innocent of everything and has nothing to do with that, nothing at all. Just because a party's choices change in regards to the other parent doesn't mean the little one has to go without.

[oitnb]

Does turning down responsibility and walking away from a child really make someone a loser, though? Or does it depend on when the walking away happens, and who's doing it? I think it's acceptable for women to walk away before their child is born--i.e., have an abortion. But the only time the man is able to walk away is after the child is born, since we don't have any say in reproductive choice issues. Women didn't like it when men tried to control what they did pre-birth; is it really so surprising that men don't like it when women try to control what we do post-birth? When one group has the ability to walk away, and the other really doesn't, things are going to get messy.

 

Yes it does. End of story.

[oitnb]

22, your threads always irk me. You're so focused on your ex and what she's doing to you. And now you want to walk away from your child because it would be "for the best"? As an adopted child, who's birth mother was given the option to be part of my life and opted not to - "for the best" she said, that hits a serious nerve. If you want to abandon your child, you know what? Go right ahead. She doesn't deserve a father that would give up so easily on her. Hopefully a stronger father figure will step up and take your place.

 

That was harsh but sorry not sorry buddy.

[Edmund Exley]

Does turning down responsibility and walking away from a child really make someone a loser, though? Or does it depend on when the walking away happens, and who's doing it? I think it's acceptable for women to walk away before their child is born--i.e., have an abortion. But the only time the man is able to walk away is after the child is born, since we don't have any say in reproductive choice issues. Women didn't like it when men tried to control what they did pre-birth; is it really so surprising that men don't like it when women try to control what we do post-birth? When one group has the ability to walk away, and the other really doesn't, things are going to get messy.

 

Men have reproductive choices too. Its called don't insert your penis into a vagina and think a baby wont possibly be conceived. Absolutely don't want a baby? DONT HAVE SEX

 

There is never a reason to walk out of a child's life. That child didn't asked to be dropped on the face of the Earth.

 

You create a child, man up. No matter what the situation. This isn't about him and his ex anymore. This is about the relationship with him and HIS CHILD.

[Furbys]

All i see in this is me me me me me. It is not about you anymore, it is about your child!

 

I dont blame her for not letting you see her, you called her at short notice. Did you really expect her to be sitting around doing nothing or drop what she was going to do to see you? No of course not she is busy. If you want to see your child then you need to organise it earlier and not last minute. And you need to go to court to get everything in writing.

 

Now stop complaining about how it hurts YOU, how it bothers YOU think about your child. If you walk away then you are a terrible person and very selfish.

[Mesemene]

I would also reiterate, because it bears another say:

 

The court system is to protect the rights of BOTH parents. Not only mothers about child support, but visitation and parental rights, and avoiding the abuse of child support.

 

You get it all in writing.

 

Is it easy? No. But nobody said parenting was easy. And it's sure easiER than having no backup when things go sour.

 

Hubby's ex tried 6 times this year to say she wasn't getting her support payments. Since we've arranged it to go out via payroll direct deposit to the state fund - we were able to tell her, "you need to talk to CSE (child support enforcement) and ask where the hiccup is between them and you, because it's showing as coming out like clockwork on our paystubs. And beyond confirming that, they won't give us any more details because it's your account."

 

And THAT is a major relief to not worry about or have to be in the middle of.

 

We know it's going where it needs to. If she doesn't receive it - it's between the state and her.

 

I made the mistake earlier this year of lending her extra when he went from temp to perm and switched payroll companies because there was a temporary delay in a payment.

 

Fortunately, I knew the odds of me ever seeing the money were about the same as opening a popsicle stand in hell.

 

But the result is I'm out about $360 or so. (I'm a soft touch, which is why she comes to me and not hubs. I was the one that moved her in - twice. sigh.)

[metrogirl]

I'll give my perspective. My bio father abandoned me when my mother was early in her pregnancy, he took off one day and never came back. Late in her pregnancy she met Joseph and he raised me as his own daughter. I couldn't love anyone more than I loved him. I was always a daddy's girl.

 

As I was growing up and having children of my own, I often thought of my bio father. Who was he, was I anything like him? Did he ever regret leaving, did he ever try to find me? Do I have siblings or other family that I don't know about? These questions plague me even more now that Joseph passed away in 2006. Sometimes I think about trying to find him but then I think to myself, if he loved me he would have stuck around to see me grow up even if he didn't want to be with my mother anymore.

 

At 43 years old, I can say that my bio father abandoning me has caused me pain. Children need to know where they came from, they need to know the love of two parents. My dad (Joseph) did a wonderful job with me and I will forever be grateful but I will always have those lingering thoughts of the man that left me. Don't let your daughter grow up like that.

[Fudgie]

22, that's the sort of thing that sucks about a parent. It isn't about you. Yes, in hindsight, it's generally a bad idea to trust a baby-wanting women with birth control when you don't want a baby or when the relationship is bad. Now you know the hard way like millions of men. But any talk of abortion now is silly because the kid is out of the womb and here to stay. And it's going to grow so you may as well take care of it so it doesn't grow up to be a criminal or have bad issues that it will take out on other people.

 

Please, at the very least, pay CS, even if you don't see the kid. My boyfriend doesn't remember his dad and his other grandma paid all his CS so her son wouldn't go to jail. My boyfriend still doesn't know his dad but he has a nice savings now thanks to CS. It helped him when we moved out.

 

It's not a replacement for a good dad (in my boyfriend's case, I'm glad he got the money and no dad cause dad was into drugs) but you obviously aren't a druggie deadbeat and could be a good dad. So I would be the dad, if I were you.

[bulletproof]

Does turning down responsibility and walking away from a child really make someone a loser, though? Or does it depend on when the walking away happens, and who's doing it? I think it's acceptable for women to walk away before their child is born--i.e., have an abortion. But the only time the man is able to walk away is after the child is born, since we don't have any say in reproductive choice issues. Women didn't like it when men tried to control what they did pre-birth; is it really so surprising that men don't like it when women try to control what we do post-birth? When one group has the ability to walk away, and the other really doesn't, things are going to get messy.

 

What a woman does pre-birth does not emotionally affect a live child, whereas post-birth choices, like walking away, do.

 

And this isn't about him not wanting to be a father. According to him, he does want to parent the child. But he only wants to do it on his terms, and it seems that he is too bitter about the actual relationship to see past his own wants.

[faraday]

I don't understand...is child support an option??? Here in Canada, after a paternity test, a father is obligated to pay child support. It's not an option. The mother has the option to get money deducted right from his paycheck and if he gets far enough behind in payments, he loses his license. If the mother chooses not to pursue child support, the child can go after the father for back pay as an adult. Or the mother can change her mind at any time before the child turns 18.

 

My ex has a child from a one nigh stand...he's forced to pay child support and child care for a child he hasn't seen in over two years...because we're on good terms, I'm not a vindictive cow like his other baby momma, and I don't go after him for additional expenses...and it took a year, but we're on very good terms now. It takes a lot to shut my mouth when he's annoying me...and I know he does it when I'm annoying him...but it's worth it to be civil....but it takes a lot of work...as much as any relationship. Next weekend he's actually coming to a family Christmas brunch my mom hosts every year, it's nice...our daughter loves that we can all get together.

[Blue Spiral]

Edmund Exley said:

 

"Men have reproductive choices too. Its called don't insert your penis into a vagina and think a baby wont possibly be conceived. Absolutely don't want a baby? DONT HAVE SEX"

 

That sounds like a reasonable and enjoyable way to go through life. I'd think that a vasectomy would be more practical.

 

bulletproof said:

 

"What a woman does pre-birth does not emotionally affect a live child, whereas post-birth choices, like walking away, do."

 

It's not our fault we don't have a medical pre-birth choice like you do.

[Cheetarah]

Nevermind, not interested in knowing.

[Batya33]

Does turning down responsibility and walking away from a child really make someone a loser, though? Or does it depend on when the walking away happens, and who's doing it? I think it's acceptable for women to walk away before their child is born--i.e., have an abortion. But the only time the man is able to walk away is after the child is born, since we don't have any say in reproductive choice issues. Women didn't like it when men tried to control what they did pre-birth; is it really so surprising that men don't like it when women try to control what we do post-birth? When one group has the ability to walk away, and the other really doesn't, things are going to get messy.

 

I agree with the others -yes, that's loser behavior. And yes men have a reproductive choice - if you don't want to risk making a baby for whatever reason then don't have intercourse with that particular woman (or I guess get a vasectomy if you never want children). Many women don't have the choice to have an abortion for whatever reason.

[bulletproof]

It's not our fault we don't have a medical pre-birth choice like you do.

 

Yes, because getting an abortion is such a joy.

 

And it's not my fault I can't urinate standing up. Such is life. Biology dictates lots of things, and while it may not be your "fault" that you can't get pregnant, some would consider that a decided advantage.

[abitbroken]

I agree with the others -yes, that's loser behavior. And yes men have a reproductive choice - if you don't want to risk making a baby for whatever reason then don't have intercourse with that particular woman (or I guess get a vasectomy if you never want children). Many women don't have the choice to have an abortion for whatever reason.

 

Yes - use a condom at all times if you are not at the point where you are married or otherwise are in a committed place where a baby would be a welcome surprise. That's just the facts. And abortion is not birth control.

 

But that is water under the bridge now.

 

Anyway - back on topic. Walking away from a child IS loser behavior. The only good options you have is to sign over the child for adoption (which you can't if the mother wants to keep the baby - but viable if there was a stepdad) or to step up and be in your child's life.

[Fudgie]

Yes, a vasectomy is best. Or date a woman that you'd know would get an abortion because she definitely doesn't want kids. I know I am one of them and do not use condoms only IUD but even that is risky because many women change their minds or lie. You gotta be careful.

 

Sadly, you weren't. Now you have a kid. What can you do is be a dad until your ex marries someone else (could be a short time) and then let that man adopt the child as his own.

[Edmund Exley]

Edmund Exley said:

 

"Men have reproductive choices too. Its called don't insert your penis into a vagina and think a baby wont possibly be conceived. Absolutely don't want a baby? DONT HAVE SEX"

 

That sounds like a reasonable and enjoyable way to go through life. I'd think that a vasectomy would be more practical.

 

bulletproof said:

 

"What a woman does pre-birth does not emotionally affect a live child, whereas post-birth choices, like walking away, do."

 

It's not our fault we don't have a medical pre-birth choice like you do.

 

Well I managed to make it to 42, and my second marriage before having a child. And I had regular sex often from the age of about 16 on. I took responsibility for my own reproductive choice. Its not as difficult as you seem to feel.

[Blue Spiral]

bulletproof said:

 

"And it's not my fault I can't urinate standing up."

 

How much has that cost you, exactly? Have you had your wages garnished because of it? Has it caused you emotional turmoil, as with the OP? Yes, I agree, eighteen years' worth of financial support and psychological warfare is absolutely the same as one's peeing abilities.

 

Edmund Exley said:

 

"Well I managed to make it to 42, and my second marriage before having a child. And I had regular sex often from the age of about 16 on. I took responsibility for my own reproductive choice. Its not as difficult as you seem to feel."

 

I'm not saying it's necessarily difficult, I'm saying that it's unfair. Granted, it's an unfairness that many people seem to be okay with. (And before you say "but it's an unfairness that's built in to nature", nature didn't make the legal system, we did, and we use the law and science to overcome/balance out nature all the time. Besides, where was this all-powerful, eminently-obvious nature in the time before child-support??)

 

I just don't like that people are getting on the OP for being "irresponsible". Flip the script: if a woman were in this situation, and they didn't like how it was going pre-birth (as the OP didn't), they could have addressed it medically, and almost no one would know. People would think of her as a responsible person. But OP never had the same legal/financial/medical options as the mother, so the only way for him to be "responsible" is to be hostage to someone else's decision. Again, is it really hard to imagine how someone might not like that?

[Cheetarah]

You will not understand anything we say, because your reasoning is all based on self interest only.

[Cheetarah]

Let me say, it bears repeating that 22 WANTED TO HAVE CHILDREN AND WANTED A CHILD WITH THIS WOMAN. He is upset because it's not going the way he thought it would(his ex and him are not reconciling).

 

Should OP walk away, yes he is irresponsible, not "irresponsible". Irresponsible. Irresponsible.

[bulletproof]

bulletproof said:

 

"And it's not my fault I can't urinate standing up."

 

How much has that cost you, exactly? Have you had your wages garnished because of it? Has it caused you emotional turmoil, as with the OP? Yes, I agree, eighteen years' worth of financial support and psychological warfare is absolutely the same as one's peeing abilities.

 

I was being flip, which I think was somewhat obvious. But I also believe that you will grasp at anything to make your point. If you really want to get into a debate about what being male or female "costs" us, then we could be here for days. The OP is not talking about eighteen years of emotional turmoil (which I think is called "parenting") that he didn't want. He wanted to have the child. The OP is talking about walking out of a child's life even though he made the conscious decision to have her. This is, in my opinion, irresponsible, cruel, and self-serving.

[Blue Spiral]

He wanted to have the child. The OP is talking about walking out of a child's life even though he made the conscious decision to have her. This is, in my opinion, irresponsible, cruel, and self-serving.

 

He wanted to have the child as in "they planned to conceive a child ahead of time", or as in "oops she's pregnant but he's receptive to the idea"? There's a slight difference. If it's the latter, I can see how, as circumstances changed, he'd no longer be receptive to the idea. If it's the former, well, he should have known better.

[bulletproof]

He wanted to have the child as in "they planned to conceive a child ahead of time", or as in "oops she's pregnant but he's receptive to the idea"? There's a slight difference. If it's the latter, I can see how, as circumstances changed, he'd no longer be receptive to the idea. If it's the former, well, he should have known better.

 

There's no difference, slight or otherwise. She didn't just "get" pregnant. He played a part in that. He should have known better no matter what, and so should she have.

 

You're still defending a man's right to walk out on a child based solely on his inability to get along with the mother. Not because he doesn't want to be a parent to that child, but because the two of them can't get it together and act civil toward each other. If you honestly don't see how that is selfish and irresponsible, I am sorry for you.

[Blue Spiral]

There's no difference, slight or otherwise. She didn't just "get" pregnant. He played a part in that. He should have known better no matter what, and so should she have.

 

There is indeed a slight difference between "I think I'll buy a pet tiger" and "holy crap I left my front door open and now there's a tiger in my living room, but I guess I can make it work."

 

You're still defending a man's right to walk out on a child based solely on his inability to get along with the mother. Not because he doesn't want to be a parent to that child, but because the two of them can't get it together and act civil toward each other. If you honestly don't see how that is selfish and irresponsible, I am sorry for you.

 

Feel sorry for me all you want--I feel sorrier for men like 22, who are stuck in situations like this. I personally think that men and women should both have an opt-out clause, in terms of pregnancy. Biological for women, financial for men.

[Cheetarah]

And you have no empathy for the child. You don't have to want nor like children to see that it is unfair to them.