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Online Dating for the 2nd Time - A Journal


NorthDallas40

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I agree with many of the recent sentiments expressed by potd2009 and MsDarcy on this issue. Someone can have personal religious convictions and appreciate sharing their faith with fellow members of their church, even while disagreeing with the behaviorally controlling tenets of that organization. I disagree with the caricatures and stereotypes of religious people as being so one dimensional, and the false assumption that all Christians share the same beliefs and behaviors. Deviation from this falsely presumed Christian norm can be an expression of individuality rather than hypocrisy. I am an athiest and a progressive liberal, but I am not in lockstep with all other athiests and liberals in all my beliefs and behaviors, and I object when people make such stereotypical assumptions about me. By the same token, I object to the suggestion that all Christians are supposed to think and act the same way either. TINA was a Christian but was possessed of her own individual free will and capacity for independent thought. The fact that TINA consented to sleeping with ND40 early on (and remained interested even after their recent talk) is an indication that she was attracted to him, not an indication that she is a hypocrite, a bad Christian, or in some way immoral or amoral. I do think that TINA's behavior and uncertainty about ND40 seems to indicate a certain lack of confidence in herself, her convictions, and her true desires. Again, I don't think this makes her a bad person or a bad Christian--it just seems she isn't 100% sure what she wants or how best to pursue what she wants.

 

My impression is that ND40 and TINA liked each other's personalities and were mutually attracted to each other, and they were therefore interested in testing out whether their compatible traits would trump their incompatibilities. It seems the answer is there was not enough compatibility to make it work, so perhaps it's for the best that it ends now. ND40, you were a good sport to join her at church and it is clear that you authentically did like TINA, so I am sorry things didn't turn out better. However, you really shouldn't have to prove to someone that you're good enough or compatible enough for them. You really deserve better. You weren't an ideal fit for her and she wasn't entirely right for you either, so it's in both of your interests to seek out a partner who is a better fit. The fact that you're now less than enthusiastic about the latest OKC profiles seems entirely reasonable given that you truly did like TINA and you've been through a bit of a breakup. It might not have been as crushing as a big breakup after a committed LTR, but you're still allowed to be bummed out, lonely, and grieve a little for what might have been. But think of it like this: TINA was a better prospect than GLORY, and GLORY was a better prospect than HELENA...hopefully you'll remain on an upward trajectory and the next one will be better still. Good luck!

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ND - My comments weren't directed at you in that I don't think you harbor any resentment towards Mina.

 

But since you said something, I would address this comment:

 

 

 

I think you are being inconsistent. You are saying "I haven't planned to have sex with someone if there was no ltr potential" but if I did, it was because I was swayed. WELL ... the point is that you HAVE. Not about why. You have explicitly stated that you would have sex with someone even if a relationship wasn't going to happen. (See bold below).

 

Again, my comments aren't about that per se. It's about the fact that when, in my estimation, Mina does the same she seems to be slightly put down for it.

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I think ND had a good gut instinct from the get go with her that there would be some deeper incompatibilities. But he was attracted enough and liked her enough to try anyways.

 

I'd only suggest not ignoring what you know early on again. And I think too, not to be a dead horse, but if you changed some of your attitudes when it came to taking women to bed it might help weed through and speed through the process too.

 

ALso, to expand and date women who aren't asian for a while. I know it's not pc to say that, but I don't care.

 

If you idea to find someone for something long term, mixing it up and changing how you do things can't hurt. You aren't really getting anywhere (except for some bedding) with the current way...so why not try something else.

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That's bizarre.. why is that?

 

If I was Asian, I doubt you'd find it bizarre in slightest! Everyone has their preferences, this happens to be mine.

 

I'm simply physically attracted to Asian women more than other ethnicities. And since there's a significant Asian community in my area, it makes sense for me to date women I'm most attracted to, rather than those I'm not, no?

 

As for the origins of my preference? Who knows. Perhaps it was all the east Asian art in the home growing up. My dad was a Green Beret in Vietnam, so he & my mother brought a lot of paintings & sculpture back from the Far East to furnish our house. Maybe it was all the Godzilla and Kung Fu movies I watched as a kid. Maybe it was from going to school with a lot of Asian kids in my advanced classes from 4th-12th grades. I can't say why, and I don't think it matters.

 

But as I've said before, it has nothing to do with stereotypes, though I do find the cultural differences can be fun to share sometimes.

 

Still, I've gotten along best with American-born Asians (CAROL, KATE, WYNN, TINA), as opposed to foreign-raised ones, with whom there is often TOO much cultural difference for us to really relate successfully.

 

FWIW, I was with my caucasian ex-wife for 16 years, my ex MARIA was Mexican, and I've dated women who were Latina, Black, Italian, Native American and Filipina throughout my life in addition to the Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai & Chinese women I've been involved with.

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I think ND had a good gut instinct from the get go with her that there would be some deeper incompatibilities. But he was attracted enough and liked her enough to try anyways.

 

Exactly. And I think it was obvious that I was willing to compromise with regard to those incompatiblities in a way that TINA apparently isn't. No regrets there.

 

I'd only suggest not ignoring what you know early on again.

 

I never ignore red flags - in fact I think I'm pretty damn good at ferreting them out. But if I was to turn tail at every sign of incompatiblity, I'd probably never date anyone.

 

I'm an optimist when it comes to dating. I'd like to think that if there's attraction, chemistry, and a good amount of shared ideals (of which Tina and I had many), then if BOTH people are invested, they can make it work.

 

And I think too, not to be a dead horse, but if you changed some of your attitudes when it came to taking women to bed it might help weed through and speed through the process too.

 

Doubtful. GLORY was a perfect example; we didn't have sex but it took 6 weeks for her to dump me, and even then she just did a fadeout instead of being upfront.

 

Besides, over the past 41 women I've dated since KATE, I haven't suffered as a result of having sex "too soon," and I doubt any of the women I've dated have been unduly traumatized beyond being disappointed for a week or so after I broke things off.

 

expand and date women who aren't asian for a while

 

I get what you're saying, but whatever gains I *may* make in compatibility or relationship success (and that's a big maybe) would be offset by a severe lack of physical attraction on my part. Not really a great trade-off, especially when I value sex highly in a relationship.

 

And let's be clear. I'm not attracted to every Asian woman out there. And even when they're attractive, there needs to be chemistry and compatibility or it won't work.

 

Besides, I look at non-Asian profiles all the time when I'm on OKC. But I don't find their photos attractive so I don't bother messaging them. Don't you think it would be unfair for me to start messaging women to whom I'm not attracted, just to fulfill some sort of quota as you're suggesting?

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That's bizarre.. why is that?

 

It is? You've never heard of that?

 

Where I live, the white guy/(east) asian girl combo is the most common interracial coupling out there. I know three men at work who exclusively date Asian women. And there are other guys on enotalone who have this preference. (It goes both ways too. When I was in school, out of 10 east asian girls, 9 exclusively dated white guys. I don't know if my school is representative of anything though because it was kind of a hoity toity private school.)

 

Other men have different preferences too, so I am not judging the preference. I'm just saying it's very common.

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On the brightside I've been "Quickmatched" (aka favorited) by a dozen women so far today. And as expected they're mostly unattractive, overweight and/or single moms.

 

Also, both WYNN and HELENA are using pictures I took of them in their profile galleries! Good for them

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I'm just throwing out suggestions. If you are happy with what you are doing, then obviously you won't try 'em.

 

Haha, I wasn't suggesting you fill some sort of quota. I was just suggesting trying something totally different. Like you said yourself, you have dated outside of that box - east asian women. So obviously you have found them attractive.

 

The idea sort of was that maybe now you are honing in on a particular 'type' and don't even realize it, hence, disregarding a lot of other women in the process. I don't know if that is true, but it was an idea.

 

I've seen it before and that is why I mentioned it. For example, a friend of mine getting it into her head that she preferred black men. I don't doubt she found the men she dated attractive; but it was also obvious she was limiting herself with this idea that "I almost always prefer black men".

 

So yeah.

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I think ND has made it clear at this point that east asian women are who he dates now/will date. Totally his choice.

 

But my comments about the financial stuff are not related to the race of women. Rather, it's around the attractiveness. I think that women who are viewed as attractive by a broad spectrum of men will have more options in terms of men and their financial abilities.

 

In fact, I think (*gasp*) there is nothing negative going on if a woman wants a man who makes six figures and/or if she wants a man to support her while she's a stay-at-home-mom and/or if she wants a dude to completely financially support her. Nothing. I also think it's unfortunate that the woman gets called a "golddigger" or any other names for her preference. Granted her preference may make it harder to find a partner, but that's on her.

 

I view wanting someone of a certain financial situation on the same level as wanting someone who looks hot or who has a car or whatever. They represent turn ons and things you feel like you want in life.

 

I'll be honest, if I looked like Kate Upton (or something), a) I would be making a lot of money and b) I would want a guy who could support the lifestyle that I wanted. Why? Because when he approached me from accross the bar it wasn't my love of classic 18th century literature that drew him in. So I would want to ensure that I picked the most compatible and financially profitable match in the bunch.

 

Now I'm not Kate Upton (or whoever you think is hot). But I do my best to be as hot as I can and I date guys who I feel are comparable. I have my own financial/career standards for a guy (e.g. he must have a car, he must have a college degree, he must be ambitious, he must make enough to support himself, he must be financially responsible, etc.). But they are not out of the realm of what's realistic for me. And I'm very happy with the guys I date/my bf so don't take that as me settling.

 

Interestingly, there is some interesting research to suggest that marriages are happier, and there is less risk of divorce, when the man makes more money than the wife: link removed

 

What happens when a man marries a woman who has the education and skills to earn more than him? The couple can avoid violating the “man earns more” social norm if the woman works part time or leaves the labor force altogether. The authors found evidence of both choices. But what if the woman stays in the labor force and does earn more than her spouse? How does this affect the marriage? The findings here are striking. In such couples, surveys show, both wife and husband generally report being less happy about the marriage.

 

Given these findings, it isn’t surprising that when a wife earns more than her husband, the risk of divorce rises, too. To study this, the authors used a survey conducted in two waves, 1987-88 and 1992-93. (There were no more recent data available for this particular test.) Then they investigated the likelihood of a divorce in the five-year interval. For this sample, some 12 percent of all couples were divorced during this period — a sobering fact about the stability of marriages in general. But the divorce rate rose by half, to about 18 percent, for couples in which the wife earned more than the husband.

 

How to explain the jump? Some people might think that a wife who earns more will do fewer household chores than her tradition-bound mate expects. Regardless of your opinion about men who harbor such feelings, the facts rule out that explanation: women who earn more than their husbands actually do a greater share of household chores, compared with couples in which the wife works but earns less.

 

link removed

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Like you said yourself, you have dated outside of that box - east asian women. So obviously you have found them attractive.

 

I never found other ethnicities as attractive as Asian women though, even when I wasn't dating them. Where I lived 6 years ago simply didn't have a big enough dating pool of Asians, and still doesn't. But when I moved to my current location in a bigger city, that pool became HUGE. And like Ms Darcy pointed out, there are many parts of my city where the "white male / asian female" pairing is so pervasive that it's almost the norm.

 

For example, a friend of mine getting it into her head that she preferred black men. I don't doubt she found the men she dated attractive; but it was also obvious she was limiting herself with this idea that "I almost always prefer black men".

 

I'm 100% aware that I'm homing in on a certain type! Whenever I see women in public, my attention is always drawn to Asian ones, while I barely notice other ethnicities at all. That's a pretty strong indcator of preference.

 

But I don't think it's any more limiting than any other filter, given my location and its diverse cultural makeup. And I have offset that limitation by dating non-vegans... and now, unthinkable by me until recently, a Christian!

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The quickmatches keep rolling in, and unlike TINA, these women obviously aren't appreciating my vocab by reading my profile.

 

Here's an excerpt from my latest fan's profile page, a nerdy 37-yo white woman:

 

I'm not a vegetarian.

I'm not religious.

I have no children, and I don't want any.

I'd like to find a guy who also has no children and doesn't want any either.

 

She apparently missed the "Doesn’t have kids, but wants them" part of my details box. COME ON LADIES.

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The only thing I think you should be doing different is not email women who are non vegans or religious. I know it means you'll be approaching less women but, on the other hand, why risk dating someone who has different values to you? With Tina it was...what? a month or something? It could have been 3 months or more...and you're looking for someone with marriage potential and you want to have kids and you're not getting any younger (I'm saying that in the sense that the older you are, the older women you'll be attracting and the more difficult will be to have kids). As you saw with Tina, some people will downplay your differences in the beginning (I remember she had told you at first that she's not a big meat eater and she likes all cuisine or something and that she was also critical of church despite being religious) but, eventually, they'll keep looking for someone more compatible to them..so, why waste your time? Also, about your financial situation, I would be upfront about it and on the very first date.

Again, all this is because you're 43 and want to get married and have kids. If you were 25, I wouldn't suggest any of these things.

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The only thing I think you should be doing different is not email women who are non vegans or religious.

 

Also, about your financial situation, I would be upfront about it and on the very first date.

 

But dude - then I won't get laid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You women and your crazy advice for men!

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But dude - then I won't get laid.

 

Are you sure you know what you want? Because if it's a LTR that will lead to marriage and kids, you should focus on your goal, in my opinion.

I could get laid every day if I weren't very careful to choose men I can see myself in a LTR with. Do I miss sex? Sure. But, on the other hand, in my age, I don't want to waste time on men who could be great in bed but not relationship material...and it's not even about kids (which is an issue with you).

Unfortunately, time flies.

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Are you sure you know what you want? Because if it's a LTR that will lead to marriage and kids, you should focus on your goal, in my opinion.

I could get laid every day if I weren't very careful to choose men I can see myself in a LTR with. Do I miss sex? Sure. But, on the other hand, in my age, I don't want to waste time on men who could be great in bed but not relationship material...and it's not even about kids (which is an issue with you).

Unfortunately, time flies.

 

I actually agree with you and I think this approach makes more sense. (I was disagreeing earlier with what I felt like was a stricter standard for Mina than ND. But you are sounding consistent here.)

 

I just think it's best to be honest with yourself (and the people on this board). In a similar situation I would say, while I'm interested generally in a LTR that will lead to marriage, I'm not 100% laser-focused on that. I am also interested in sex, whether or not it leads to anything (aka as pointed out with Helena).

 

I distinguish between missmarple and ND because I don't sense the same level of urgency. MissMarple restricts the physical and cuts off at first sign of incompatibility. Maybe it's because ND was married for 16 years, which I do think is a significant measure of relationship success, and then had long-term relationships after that. Maybe the fire for marriage and kids just isn't really there. It's certainly not in line with his lifestyle and kids would require less late nights, going out, and weed smoking.

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Are you sure you know what you want?

 

Yes. But we don't always get what we want. The best we can do is look for it, actively try and get it, and hope for a good outcome. As the saying goes, "Man plans, God laughs."

 

Because if it's a LTR that will lead to marriage and kids, you should focus on your goal

 

I am. But marriage and kids aren't always best first date conversation material. It can seem desperate, rushing, and presumptuous. You've just met someone but already talking about lifelong commitment? That's not always appropriate. So there's nothing wrong in leaving those topics til a 2nd-4th date IMO. Unless you're paranoid about losing a mere couple of weeks in your search, which seems ridiculous.

 

That said, if I've dated a girl more than once - and it seems to be going somewhere meaningful - I've had the marriage/kids talk at appropriate times.

 

Haha, I think he was joking.

 

I was.

 

In a similar situation I would say, while I'm interested generally in a LTR that will lead to marriage, I'm not 100% laser-focused on that. I am also interested in sex, whether or not it leads to anything (aka as pointed out with Helena).

 

I have the same approach. Sex is not my primary goal. A relationship leading to marriage is. But if no-strings sex happens along the way, I'm ok with it in the right circumstances.

 

But I've also taken sex off the table. Just ask HELENA, CHLOE, and now TINA if you need verification on that.

 

MissMarple restricts the physical and cuts off at first sign of incompatibility..

 

Which can be read as being laser-focused on marriage, as you've said. But it can also be read as MissMarple being too picky... or being commitment-phobic... or living in an area with bad prospects... or having a bad filter... or a combination of any of the above.

 

As for myself, I hope for the best and try to be optimistic. I believe incompatibilities can be overcome if other aspects are positive, and people can surprise you in good ways if you take the time to know them. So I don't have such a harsh cut-off line.

 

Maybe the fire for marriage and kids just isn't really there. It's certainly not in line with his lifestyle and kids would require less late nights, going out, and weed smoking.

 

Nope, the fire is there. I would have gladly married and had kids with KATE, and was fully open to exploring that route with Tina.

 

As for my lifestyle, I actually don't go out on that many late nights (maybe 1-3 month) anymore. And I don't believe smoking weed is any more incompatible with child-rearing than parents who drink alcohol, especially with marijuana becoming legal in state after state nowadays. If I had kids, I would be appropriately strict - but honest - with them about drug use.

 

Besides, many an abstinent parent has faced the dismay of their 12-year-old coming home stoned. If a kid wants to get high, they will... no matter what their parents' beliefs. Some kids will even abstain completely if their parents partake! So I don't see any problems with responsible weed-smoking as long as I'm a responsible father overall.

 

-------------------

 

As for TINA, I haven't heard from her since Saturday night. But I am curious to see when (or if) she gets in touch. It still puzzles me how she can take me to her church, introduce me to her roommate, pastor, and friends... then basically dump me a few hours later. Then still want to have sex!

 

As for the FWB aspect, I remember that she was contradictory that night. She said she was mulling things over about me, then asked how I'd feel about opening her OKC account again. But later she said she didn't have the time or concentration to date more than one person at a time. Yet she then asked me how we would conduct things if we continued to see each other but either of us had sex with someone else. Sheesh!

 

-------------------

 

Anyway, I messaged seven women aged 35-40 on OKC yesterday, two or three of whom are vegetarian, and several who enjoy books, film & art/design. Those are exactly the types of seemingly very compatible women who rarely respond to my messages. So far, four of my messages have been read, three unread, and no responses yet.

Edited by NorthDallas40
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But marriage and kids aren't always best first date conversation material. It can seem desperate, rushing, and presumptuous. You've just met someone but already talking about lifelong commitment? That's not always appropriate. So there's nothing wrong in leaving those topics til a 2nd-4th date IMO. Unless you're paranoid about losing a mere couple of weeks in your search, which seems ridiculous..

 

You misunderstood my comment. When I said your focus should be on what you want (marriage/kids), I meant regarding the women you choose to approach on that site and things that wouldn't stand in the way of a lifelong commitment (like if someone is very religious or non vegan or only interested in casual dating, for example). As for your financial situation, yeah, I think that should be brought up on a first date, so as not to waste time on women who want something different. For example, I always talk about my cat before or during the first date (even though I have it on my profile, too) because if someone is allergic to cats or just doesn't like them, it will never work between us....and, as a matter of fact, some men had read that I have a cat but hadn't realised that meant that I've always had one and always will. I know it's not the same but it's similar...things that could be a dealbreaker to someone and so, why not tell them beforehand and let them decide if they want to continue dating me.

 

As for myself, I hope for the best and try to be optimistic. I believe incompatibilities can be overcome if other aspects are positive, and people can surprise you in good ways if you take the time to know them. So I don't have such a harsh cut-off line.

 

It's good to be optimistic but it's also good to be a realist. If you take the time to get to know every attractive woman out there, in the hope that, despite your incompatibilities, you'll fall madly in love and live happily ever after, you may end up being 53 and still doing the same thing. And that's fine and nothing wrong with it but if you really want kids and if you don't want to be 60 when your kid is 5 (that is provided you can get a woman who can still have kids when you're 53 don't you think that it would be wiser to limit your search to women who, at the very least, you know from the start aren't looking for someone other than you (as in non vegan, religious, rich, whatever).

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But I've also taken sex off the table. Just ask HELENA, CHLOE, and now TINA if you need verification on that.

 

Well your inconsistency on that has already been documented. It's not such a great feat to take sex off the table after you've already had it.

 

Which can be read as being laser-focused on marriage, as you've said. But it can also be read as MissMarple being too picky... or being commitment-phobic... or living in an area with bad prospects... or having a bad filter... or a combination of any of the above.

 

Agree that it can be too picky or commitment-phobic. But I don'tthink it could be read as living in an area with bad prospects. Don't really see that one.

 

As for myself, I hope for the best and try to be optimistic. I believe incompatibilities can be overcome if other aspects are positive, and people can surprise you in good ways if you take the time to know them. So I don't have such a harsh cut-off line.

 

That's an interesting perspective. I don't know how certain incompatibilities can be overcome though (e.g. religion and veganism). They seem like core beliefs.

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