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Online Dating for the 2nd Time - A Journal


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nyxy - We'll just have to agree to disagree on the best approach to a person who's being noncommittal.


But FWIW, at brunch last Saturday I apologized to KIM for possibly seeming too pushy with the message in question. She waved it off, saying that even her friends often get mad at her for being flaky because of her work schedule - and justifiably, because she often cancels on them - so she didn't think anything of it.


Unfortunately I haven't heard from her in response to my voicemail from three days ago, but her online activity shows that she's been out of town since Monday and won't be getting back til this Sunday at the earliest. I'll text her on Sunday and see what happens.




Coincidentally, this morning's exchange with REY illustrates why a firmer approach is often needed when nailing down that first date. A few days ago, she agreed to meet and would know her weekend schedule by last night. So I told her I was free Saturday night and all day Sunday, gave her my phone number and offered to call her last night to confirm. She didn't reply at all, so I messaged her today:


11:14 - ME: We still on for this weekend? Let me know!


11:48 - REY: I might be able to meet tonight or tomorrow night


Three problems here:


1. If she was paying attention to my previous message, she should have assumed I wasn't free tonight because I didn't offer it as an option.


2. The use of "might" is the red flag of a flaker. Come on - it's not hard to give a definite yes or no.


3. She didn't give me her phone number, leaving OKC as the only way to contact her.... when she's already said she's "over" OKC and doesn't log in very often.


Despite all this, I tried to be non-arrogant - but firm - in my reply.


11:54 - ME: Cool - I've got plans tonight, but tomorrow night would be perfect. Just let me know if you're 100% available (no flakes!) and I'll come up with some ideas. It would be good to get your phone # too, in case we need to discuss or text beforehand.


It's now 1:10 and even though she's using her cell, she logged out and hasn't read my last message.




- This morning I sent another chatty message to STEFANI in response to hers yesterday, and said I was available to meet next Wed or weekend since she's out of town for this weekend.




- A few days ago I received a "Quickmatch" star from a strikingly beautiful & stylish girl named SIGRID ( 38 ) who lives in another city (about 3 hours by plane). Her photos looked familiar, so I messaged her and as it turns out we do have a lot of friends & interests in common. She seemed a little odd however, so I asked a mutual friend about her who confirmed that she is indeed cool but is indeed a bit nutty.


Her replies were lengthy & interesting though, so we added each other on FB. That's when it became clear that she has some sort of eating disorder, which my friend confirmed. Her old pics were a bit on the chubby side, while her recent photos show her being very skinny which looks great... except her bikini pics, in which she looks almost skeletal. Total turnoff. It's a shame, because she's very pretty and would be almost PERFECT if she'd just put back on 10-20 pounds.


It makes it even more difficult when she says things like:


"Why don't you re-connect with your old friends here and plan a visit? It would be fun to meet and hear your opinion on everything"


"Oh, you have not been here since 2007, that's odd because you look very familiar. I guess I must have seen you on Facebook too then, I suppose you must have stuck in my mind."


"I have to say, you are very good looking. I can imagine that you must be quite a busy man..!!"






- As expected, my date with ELAINE last night was a dud. She was nice enough and conversation wasn't a problem, but she wasn't my type at all and was kind of a bore, talking mostly about her work at a bank. She seemed very new to dating too... dressing (and acting!) a bit like a frumpy coworker rather than a date, keeping her arms folded almost the entire time, not good with eye contact, and even giving me a PAT ON THE BACK when I gave her a goodbye hug. Sheesh. She was 40 minutes(!) late, so the date only lasted a bit over an hour, but it seemed a bit too long even so. At least the meal was good and luckily I got all the leftovers.




- A few days ago I asked my platonic(?) friend KAY out to a movie tonight, which she declined due to prior plans. But she immediately suggested a few nights to meet next week. We finally decided on dinner & a comedy club next Thursday.




In better news, I still have a lunch date with VICKY tomorrow... and I just confirmed to meet with a potential Little Brother match on Sunday morning! That's my best date of the year so far!

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I always assume that a woman I meet on OKC is seeing other people, and I don't hold it against them if they are. I don't expect anyone to be exclusive before I've met them, or even after 2-4 dates. We're all on a dating site to meet people, after all!


I wish you the best.... but don't assume that just because you meet on a dating site means you're both dating lots of other people. I've never met and dated anyone on a site who was doing this....and have had amazing relationships that started out this way. We're all there to meet ONE PERSON after all..... most women can tell when a guy is juggling several at once.

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We're all there to meet ONE PERSON after all.....


Don't be so sure! Here's a message I just got from SIGRID to put things in perspective (btw she's lived in the USA for the past 10+ years but is originally Scandinavian):


Umm... How to put this.. OKC for me is not really where I expect to meet my 'soul mate'. It's a sex catalogue to browse, no?

Like I said before, the type of guys I would be seriously interested in need to have the same fundamental interests as me. That pool of guys is very small in _______.

So I have casual sex with guys who are good looking but I do not care to hear their opinion, I don't want to snuggle with them or anything. OKC gives me lots of options with minimal effort, like a catalogue. And usually we have no friends in common, even better. I don't really want them to know anything about me at all.

And I'm happy being single, happy with my drama-free life.

But I of course long for the romantic loveliness like cuddling and laughing, everyone does.

On Sunday I'm meeting an OKC, for coffee.


Note: despite this revelation, she mentioned again that I should visit her.



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Interesting day.


- This morning SIGRID messaged "Aah good morning, I just wanted to say it's very nice to have someone to think about and have a little crush on again, it has been a long time since I did. Hope you will have a nice Saturday... " I replied with a teasing message about not having a crush on me yet because I'm a total bore. She seems fun but I don't want to encourage her.


- I realized I had other plans this Thursday, so I apologized profusely to KAY for having to cancel, and asked if Wednesday would work for her. She said she'd get back to me.


- My lunch & hike date with VICKY went very well. She was slim & pretty just like her photo, conversation was interesting and never flagged, plus she was an all-around fun, intelligent, witty, charming & sweet person. We spent 6 hours together, lunch was $35, she bought us post-date treats and I had a genuinely great time. I think she'd agree to to a 2nd date, but I'm going to sleep on it before asking. As attracted as I was and as well as we got along, our conversation was mostly about our experiences instead of our shared interests, and I simply don't think we have enough in common to sustain a relationship.


- During the date, MISSY messaged that meeting tomorrow sounded good and gave me her phone number. But when I got home I realized that she lived 30+ miles away. I replied that was too far away for me and apologized for not noticing sooner.


- Also during my date, REY suprisingly messaged me... but kept true to being a total flake.


1:40 - REY: Did you still want I get together tonight?

2:06 - ME: Sure what time? Itd be easier to plan on the phone if you dont mind.

2:13 - REY: I'm working at the moment. We can talk after 5? Think of some ideas in the meantime?

2:50 - ME: No problem!​


By the time I got home & showered, I was totally beat from the hike and didn't really want to go out anyway. Which was just as well, since she didn't call until 7:40pm. FOR A DINNER DATE THAT NIGHT. She didn't leave a VM, but 15 minutes later she took the passive-aggressive route with a text that tried to make *me* seem like the flake. Unbelievable.


7:53 - REY: Just getting back to you to possibly make plans. If I don't here (sic) from you soon, I'll assume you've made other plans.

7:54 - ME: It was getting late so I ate already. If you'd like to meet another time I'd be happy to do so with plans in advance. Just let me know!


Needless to say I didn't get a reply... and needless to say, I'm getting really frustrated with this process!

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Monday update:


- I sent out 9 new OKC messages yesterday & today, and got one decent response from HANNAH (30). I'll reply tonight.


- STEFANI has read but not responded to my message from Friday.


- I sent a message to VICKY saying that I had a great time on our hike and though I had some doubts about whether we had much in common, I thought we could still have fun on another meetup if she was up for it.


- KAY messaged me today about a makeup date for the one I flaked on, so we're on for dinner & comedy club this Wednesday.


- The fun/amusing FB exchanges with SIGRID continue. She had told me she had an OKC coffee date yesterday, so I asked how it went:


"Coffee date was confusing as he hardly said a word, just yes/no, so I did all the talking.. then after my coffee I said goodbye, and all of a sudden out of the blue, he poured out a love-confession to me. So I guess he must be desperate."

That may sound egotistical on her part, but as I've mentioned before she's super hot. She's also a pro at saying exactly what guys want to hear:


"I looked at some of the questions you answered on OKC.. (Im not a stalker I promise) and it said you are an animal rights activist? Is this the case? Is this why you are a vegan? THAT I think is super hot."

So even though I'm not taking her seriously at all, it's nice to be flattered!


- I hadn't heard from KIM since my voicemail 6 days ago, and true to her claim that she "may have signed up to OKC prematurely" since she was traveling so much, she took her profile down this weekend. But as a last-ditch attempt, I texted her last night "You are too charming for me not to keep trying for a 2nd date... let me know if that sounds good to you!" and didn't expect a reply at all.


But about 30 minutes ago she replied "Just got back into town. But not feeling so good... Terrible allergies and a back spasm. I have a day trip on Wednesday. But if I'm feeling better on Thursday/Friday, I will let you know."


I'm rather optimistic that she replied at all, and it is indeed allergy season right now; VICKY & I were suffering this past Saturday. But it's frustrating that she's still leaving things up in the air. The last time a girl gave me a health problem excuse it was JEANETTE, and she dropped out of sight. Still, KIM's the best prospect I have so far, so I don't mind continuing the chase as long as I keep my effort - and expectations - low.


- Now a big dilemma. I have tickets for an event on Thursday that I'm 100% positive WYNN would love to attend (her favorite movie with director in person)... and I am seriously considering inviting her. It just wouldn't seem right to take another girl, or even just going by myself.


But *if* I do, I've gotta do it tonight... and unfortunately I'd have to make it clear that I'm still dating other people; it would not necessarily mean that I'm ready to pick up where we left off, though I wouldn't rule it out. I'm not sure how she'd feel about that, or about me contacting her at all, so I'm very torn.


And though it's been over 6 months now... thoughts of KATE still creep into my mind about what we had, how amazing she was before our breakup, how no other girls match up, etc. UGH... STOP.




But on the bright side, I was FINALLY matched with a LITTLE BROTHER yesterday morning! He's 12 years old and I got on great with both him & his mom, which the Big Brother rep says doesn't usually happen so quickly. So I'm really looking forward to helping the little guy along!

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Well I sent a message to WYNN inviting her to that event this Thursday. It was laden with apologies and my complete understanding if she just wants me to f*ck off.


But I also made it clear that as much as I'd like to see her again and possibly for more than this show, I'm still dating other people and not in exclusive mode yet. I laid every card on the table that I should.


So I think I'll be fine with whatever she chooses to tell me. I hope.

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Well I needn't have worried - WYNN got back to me and had no hard feelings about how things ended in January. Luckily I handled it honestly back then; I'm not one to burn bridges. So she said she'd love to go the show on Thursday, and agreed that we should meet for dinner tomorrow so we can make sure we're on the same page. Not only because I'm dating other people, but she just started talking with someone as well.


I also texted KIM that I hope she feels better. I won't contact her again until Thursday.

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Nice thought - I would have made a different decision if I were Wynn.


Mean thought - Wynn's an idiot.


Me too. I'm actually surprised she responded positively. I certainly wouldn't have screamed at you or been rude, but I would have declined the invite. I know people change their minds, but...I don't know, if a guy rejects me once, for me, that's a done deal. It wasn't always that way for me, but after some bad experiences, I realize that giving repeat chances isn't my thing.


No offense, but this thread is exactly why I shudder at the thought of meeting people through dating sites. I realize it's just "dating," but the thought that a guy I have gone out with a few times is going on multiple dates a week, calling and texting all sorts of other women, etc. -- just not for me. Not judging you or anything...just not for me.

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Mean thought - Wynn's an idiot.




Hi, ND40.


Sure, it's only Monday, but you win the prize for the biggest surprise of the week.


Maybe I lack imagination, but whatever happened last time surely doesn't warrant a f--k off. I always thought you were a good guy, even after the fact. I was disappointed, yes, but I appreciate honesty above lies (white or otherwise) told to spare feelings. No one appreciates being misled or her time being wasted.


I'm not seeing anyone exclusively, but I recently started communicating with someone. It's too early to say how things will unfold, but I just want to lay all my cards on the table. And, to tell the truth, I'm a bit wary of of diving into something here because the details of why things ended last time are a bit fuzzy. I know that feelings and chemistry are unpredictable and difficult to articulate at times. It'd be helpful to know what happened -- not today or tomorrow but eventually, if that becomes necessary. But as you said, let's not get ahead of ourselves.


How could I say no to you and (event name)? For what it's worth, I always enjoyed our time spent together. Be it romantic or platonic, I think it'd be a fantastic outing. By the way: even taking my tickets and going with someone else? While I appreciate the (overly) generous offer, my sense of decency isn't that off!


Although the idea of us sitting uncomfortably incommunicado sounds like an adventure good for future storytelling, you're probably right. If you don't mind, I'd prefer conversation + meal where we can commiserate our mutual nervousness in person rather invisibly and awkwardly over the phone. What say you? Here are some places we could consider.


I'm touched that you thought of me when you heard about (event name). Thanks.




Despite my breaking things off, we always communicated honestly & openly. And as is obvious from her note, we still do.


I've offered her no guarantees, nor she to me, and we're ok with that. After all, we only dated for 5 weekends. And FWIW, she's the last woman I've slept with - none of my dates since her have gone past a kiss - and she is aware of this.


But we enjoyed each others' company then, and I'm sure we will tonight and this Thursday.

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No offense, but this thread is exactly why I shudder at the thought of meeting people through dating sites. I realize it's just "dating," but the thought that a guy I have gone out with a few times is going on multiple dates a week, calling and texting all sorts of other women, etc. -- just not for me. Not judging you or anything...just not for me.


I understand your reservations. And in an ideal world yes, it would be great to just date one girl at a time.


But this thread should make it painfully obvious why that more selective and non-concurrent approach simply isn't feasible.


If I only saw one girl at a time, my already meager results would be even more pathetic, depressing, ego-destroying and discouraging.


And for what?


So that a person whom I've never met will feel better about being the only one I'm seeing? Even before first time I date them? That's asking a bit much, especially given the high rate of non-responses, flakes, bad matches, and lack of 2nd dates I've encountered in just the past few months.


And FWIW, one of my 31-yo female friends is also on OKC and has been dating even MORE frequently than I have, averaging about 3-5 dates per week to my 1-3. And she's a very sweet, non-promiscuous person! So not only am I not only the "worst" offender out there, but it's not just guys dating at such a frequency.


In any case, the longest I've ever seriously dated 2 women at the same time was for about 2 weeks, and it has only happened once. Other than that, all of my concurrent dating has involved only 1st & 2nd dates, none of which went further than a kiss. I think that's entirely fair play.


Plus I'd be willing to bet money that I have a far more respectful track record than the majority of guys dating out there.

Edited by NorthDallas40
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tmtex - For obvious reasons I'm not going to post their links/pictures. But generally I've been messaging the girls I find the most attractive (6 to 10), and generally getting responses from 6s, 7s and a few 8s. My ex KATE was an 8 (a 10 for me personally), so I'm probably being as picky as you are.


- STEFANI messaged me with a noncommittal "This Wednesday doesn't work as I will be up in _____ for work. You seem like a nice person that I would like to meet, but I'm also having to be on standby for a family issue. I hope that you are enjoying your week." I replied that I'd still like to meet, but that I'd leave it to her to let me know when she's available. Not counting on anything there.


- VICKY replied that "It's great to meet you too. thanks for being honest, if common interests is that important to you, a 2nd or 3rd meetup won't change that, right?" I replied that they're not necessarily important to me as long as there's a mutual appreciation for what each person brings to the table, and asked if she wanted to meet up again next week. Again, not holding my breath.


- The FB conversation with SIGRID ground to a bit of a halt when we approached the subject of eating:


ME: Are you vegan/vegetarian?


SIGRID: No but I can't say I eat much meat, because I don't eat much of anything. But you're a vegan for the sake of the animals, I think that is super cool. Also, the fact that there is will power and commitment involved that you are able to stick to.... Very Hot.


ME: I've been vegan since 1985 so yeah I guess that's dedication. But hey I really like food! So it makes me nervous to share a meal with a girl who doesn't eat much... especially if I made it.


SIGRID: What does that mean, does it mean you want to cook for me, or does it mean you do not want to eat together with me? OR, does that mean you want to come to ______ for a visit, hmmmm? Dangerous territory here.. My pet peeve is being told how to eat/look.


It's obvious her eating disorder is a sore spot, and one which I have no interest in dealing with. I haven't responded.


- Finally, my dinner with WYNN went very well tonight. It was strictly platonic but was easily the most fun date I've had in awhile. I kept her laughing the whole time, she looked as cute as ever, and she even seemed taller than I remembered! We shared some OKC stories, and it seems like she's been having even worse luck than me. She's going on dates, but all the guys - though nice - are boring duds. She declined my offer for an after-dinner drink, but she's been working 14 hour days and we're getting together in 2 days anyway. Intellectually I can see her being "the one" and I'm definitely attracted, but emotionally there's something missing and right now, I know I'd still be looking at other girls if we got together. Which is something that NEVER happened with KATE - she sincerely blinded me to all other women. How frustrating.

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- I sent 4 new OKC messages a couple of days ago. 1 went unread, 1 user closed their account, and 2 responded:


MIKO (37) is quite pretty and sent a thoughtful reply about cooking & movies, so I replied today.


On the other hand, LESLIE's (32) message was confused. An excerpt: "Honestly, I'm serious on finding a long-term relationship. However, I moved to (another country) two years ago and work there since then. Here I am for a vacation from my recent break up and thinking what to do next in my career." Dunno if I really want to bother responding to that one.


- VICKY replied that she'd be up to meet a 2nd time next week after being out of town this weekend, so I suggested next Thursday night.


- My dinner and comedy club date with KAY last night was interesting. She had on mascara, lipstick & a dress this time (no makeup & jeans the previous times), I finally got to see the inside of her apt. when I picked her up, and the conversation at dinner & in the car was entertaining but - predictably - mostly about her. When the check came, she offered to pay half, jokingly saying "Friendzone!" which I assumed was already the case. So I let her pay the 50%.


As we finished, I asked her how OKC was doing for her and she said she'd been seeing a guy regularly right after we met, but wasn't really crazy about seeing him as often as he wanted to, or enthusiastic about being in a relationship at all. And as we walked out, she apologized for saying friendzone, joked that she'd already had sex that week, then admitted she hadn't, then said "it could happen," referring to me. Since she's prone to lots of joking/sarcasm, I took all of this with a grain of salt, even telling her about my reconnecting with WYNN the night before. Oddly enough, she seemed more at ease after this exchange.


We had a good time at the comedy club after, walked around a bit afterwards, then we both went up to her apt. so she could give me some plants. By this time it was almost 1am, and she spent an inordinate amount of time showing me the plants on her balcony. Now as eccentric as she is, she's not crazy, and I got the strong feeling she was stalling me there so that I'd make a move on her. We were alone in her apt. after 1am on a Wednesday night after all. I had no idea if that was really the case, nor was I sure I wanted to take it there anyway, so I just left and thanked her for the plants.


If we go out again, however...


- Following up on my offer to go out tomorrow from 3 days ago, I texted KIM today and asked if she was still up for it, and that I hoped she was feeling better.


- I also texted WYNN about our movie date tonight and she replied cheerfully. I'm looking forward to spending time with her again even if it remains platonic, which it most likely will.

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- WYNN & I shared a couch at the theatre last night at our movie + lecture date, but she sat as far away as possible for most of the night. Which is par for the course because she's never been very flirtatious. Still, we had a great time and I made her laugh as usual, so I was ok with being friendzoned if that was the case.


Nevertheless, I went in for a kiss when I walked her to her car... and she eagerly reciprocated! I cut our makeout session short since it was late, but I asked if she'd want to go out again. She happily said of course, offered to buy dinner next time, and we texted briefly this morning too. I think we're both better with taking things slow this time around.


- MIKO sent me another charming & witty message, hinting that we should cook together sometime but that she wanted to chat / message a bit before meeting. Luckily she gave me her phone number so I sent her a nice reply and said that I'd call her this weekend.


- I received a funny rejection from SERA, whom I messaged for the first time a few days ago: "Thanks for contacting me! I am a good cook but I love my meat. Sorry!"


- During my date last night, KIM texted with the usual "I'm busy" routine, but at least she made contact and gave a vague make-up possibility:


KIM: Sorry I totally forgot I have a dinner thing tomorrow. I'm sort of drowning in work at the moment... And not very good with managing my schedule at the moment. Can we maybe try for sometime next week?


This is frustrating, but her social networking accounts corroborate that she's been busy (though she went to a concert this past Tuesday night), and technically she's still never actually flaked on a date that was set. So taking advice from the women of ENA who've posted on this thread, I tried to be as polite as possible in my reply today:


ME: I do appreciate that you're under the gun so as long as I get points for being patient, no problem Just tell me which night(s) are good and we'll plan a pleasant outing


I know it's usually a waste of time to keep pursuing someone so non-committal. But if she's jerking me around, WYNN - and possibly MIKO - are other options and my only real investment has been brunch and a few texts.


Besides, if she's genuinely game to meet up when her schedule is less hectic, she should appreciate my not being pushy in the meantime. Win-win.

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I had no dates this weekend, which is partially by design. This week I'd already gone out with KAY once and WYNN twice. I also wanted to keep my weekend open in case KIM or NIKO confirmed, which they didn't. But as I've mentioned before about trying to date flaky/noncommittal people, it's good to have backup plans, which I did.


Friday night I worked late then went to a movie. Yesterday I ran errands, cleaned the house, went to band rehearsal, then went to a club night where I guest DJ'd. Today it's IRINA's birthday (I met her on OKC in December and we're now good friends) so I'm joining her & her pals for a movie and dinner.


But as for my 3 remaining prospects (I don't see KAY as more than a friend, or *possibly* FWB which I don't usually do)...


- KIM still hasn't responded since Thursday about meeting this coming week. I'll text her tonight, but I'm not counting on her committing to anything.


- Since she still wants to chat online a bit before meeting, I've been messaging NIKO daily on OKC. For many many reasons I ordinarily I wouldn't do this, but from details in our convo it's obvious she's not a spambot, plus the chat has been interesting and charming. Dunno if she'll *ever* want to meet IRL, but it's worth a few more messages to find out.


- I asked WYNN out for this coming Friday and she accepted. It's looking more and more likely that she'll be the "last woman standing" out of this whole process, which I wouldn't mind a bit. I've always liked her, and my hesitations about her become less and less the more time I've had apart from KATE.

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Well, the Noncommittals are still in the game:


- I sent a fairly long message to NIKO this morning, and she responded with an even lengthier message tonight that she concluded with "OMG so loooong mail lol I'll write later." Still no hint on if she's ready to meet in person, but I'm going to leave her a voicemail tomorrow night to try and push things along.


- VICKY hasn't gotten back in touch about our tentative Thursday meetup, which actually surprises me. But to be honest I'm ok if it doesn't happen; I don't think we're a longterm prospect. I'm going to wait rather than trying to nudge her a bit.


- Wonder of wonders, KIM just texted... just when I was about to write her off again. "(Work) is still crazy.. But I am thinking Wednesday night would work." Since texting dinner option plans is just too damn difficult, I replied asking for her email addy (again) since she closed her OKC account. Of course no response yet.


But The Dependable One is leading the race:


- Dinner & movie plans with WYNN are set for Friday and we've texted/emailed several times today. Which just goes to show that if someone is truly interested, THEY WILL MAKE THE EFFORT.


And looks like my first Little Brother meetup with DAVY is this Sunday! He wants to go to a mall, but I'm going to try to work in something more edifying. Kids today, right?

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