Are some people lucky in love or do they know something others don't?

[Celadon]

I started thinking about this when I heard a former roommate just had another kid. It reminded me that I didn't think very highly of her as a roommate -- she was kinda princessy and selfish, imho. And yet, she found a genuinely nice guy who is devoted to her, and she has gotten pregnant easily.

 

I know that having an easy life isn't some measure of your character or worth as a person, but it makes me wonder why some people seem to be lucky in love. Other people I know, who are generous and not selfish, don't have anyone. It doesn't seem fair, tbh.

[camus154]

What makes you think life is fair?

[Seraphim]

I don't think there is luck in that dept.

[Blue92]

I don't think luck has anything to do with it. I think love will come to you as long as you love yourself and you are open to others.

[pinkelephant]

i think that many girls i know who have great boyfriends are just girls who know their worth and don't put up with crappy guys!

[Rexcat84]

I think people that find lasting love are very secure people. They don't destroy relationships by being unsecure and needy. They are secure enough and happy enough in their lives to wait for the right match, and when they find that person they can love and be loved fully.

[LillyLooWho]

They are secure enough and happy enough in their lives to wait for the right match, and when they find that person they can love and be loved fully.

 

I know many insecure crazy people who are married. I know demanding people who are married. You don't have to have any particular quality or skill to be married or find lasting love. You just need to find someone who accepts you even though you have flaws. That is hard to do. Some people are luckier with this than others.

[Deciduous]

Hi Caledon,

 

I some-what agree with "blue92" Clearly this woman holds herself in high regard and expects others to do the same (Whether this self assessment is an accurate is very open to debate) but, fact is, she expects decent treatment and that is what she attracts.

 

She believes that she is worthy of a guy who adores her, and, bingo, that is what shows up. Whilst I am not a fan of the book Why Guys love a ***** ( link removed) I'm afraid it does have some weird twisted logic.

 

Personallly, I don't think you need to be a ***** to have a happy relationship (in fact I'd advise against it in the long term. No-one with an ounce of self respect would stand for being treated like an idiot for decades) yet no-one with ounce of self-respect would stick with some-one who doesn't demonstrate a high level of self esteem, boundaries and confidence in themselves.

 

It's hard to admire a door-mat. I'm getting the feeling your "Frenemy" isn't the type you wipe your feet on.

 

There is nothing wrong with being a kind and loving person as long as you have boundaries, personal strength and self regard - i.e. you have the ability to put yourself first if your relationship breaks your personal code of behaviour.

 

I have a dear friend who's errant husband cheated on her repeatedly during their 15 year marriage. She tried to be understanding and accepting. They had kids. He then ran off with a women whom he was having an affair with. He and this "new" woman have now been together for five years.

 

I've met his "new woman" and she seems a right hard-a**e, didn't like her, but I get the feeling she would walk the moment this "former errant husband" showed her disrespect. She's publicly said she could survive on her own, and I fully believe this cheating hussy could. I don't like it, neither does my formally married girlfriend. She simply cannot understand why this new chick is getting better treatment.

 

Her formerally errant husband" has been happily tip-toeing around this new harridan for five years, and my old friend doesn't understand why.

 

I think I do. You don't need to ***** at all, but you do need to know, you could become one "if push can to shove." Does this answer your original question???

 

 

Deciduousxxx

[Deciduous]

i think that many girls i know who have great boyfriends are just girls who know their worth and don't put up with crappy guys!

 

Bingo!!!

 

Got it in one, Pinkelephant!

[bulletproof]

No such thing as luck. But there is such a thing as good timing, and accepting who you are. Maybe this woman doesn't care that she's princessy and selfish, and she loves herself. Maybe she behaves differently with her husband. Maybe she has a ton of amazing qualities that cancel out her poor ones.

 

Bottom line is, if you want to do some speculation, don't do it about the general population and who's "lucky" or not. Do it about yourself, and how you can have a great life and optimize the chances of getting what you want.

 

Plus, you are making a lot of assumptions about this person and her relationship/life. You have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. You also don't know what will happen in their relationship down the road. I'm not hoping that anything bad happens for anyone, but you have to remember that everyone in life experiences pain and hard times at some point.

[Ms Darcy]

No such thing as luck. But there is such a thing as good timing, and accepting who you are. Maybe this woman doesn't care that she's princessy and selfish, and she loves herself. Maybe she behaves differently with her husband. Maybe she has a ton of amazing qualities that cancel out her poor ones.

 

Exactly. I have a female coworker who is quite dismissive and princessy as well. Her husband of 11 years loves her to bits. Another coworker organized a weekend rafting trip and I attended. She also attended with her husband. I thought it was interesting because her dynamic with him was VERY different than with me. People act differently with different people and in different situations. I could understand what they give each other. And I realized I made a lot of assumptions that I could not make without being in that person's mind.

 

I think the challenge for you OP is not to connect "deservedness" to "marriage." Even insecure people can find partners, communicate in a relationship, and have a long-term relationship. Marriage and long-term relationships are hard work and if people have a happy one ... good for them. This takes nothing from you and your life.

 

Different people have different life experiences. Some are rich/some are poor. Some are born with model good looks/others become obese. The list goes on. But people work with what they have to find happiness no matter what they have.

[Grace696]

I'm a little puzzled by posters saying there is "no such thing as luck". Do I have a different understanding of what luck means than others? Isn't "good timing" and "some people are born with model good looks" another way of talking about luck?

 

Of course, a person's sense of self-worth and general level of integrity, self-knowledge, etc etc, will have a huge impact on their ability to form and keep healthy relationships. And of course, some people who are single have some serious issues in relating/world view/independence.

 

But I also know many single people (mostly women, thanks to an apparent "man drought") who are what I would call high-functioning, emotionally and psychologically healthy, and intelligent who have had what I would call bad luck with love and who are single. And I also know people who are insecure, needy, and occasionally just plain mean to their partners who are in long-term relationships. To say it is a matter of "luck" is reductionist, but luck does factor into it.

 

So, what is my point. I guess my point is: life is not "fair", and as Ms Darcy said, we make the best of what we've got to find happiness. I think it is unhealthy to say "oh it's just my bad luck that I am single", and more healthy to be proactive about taking steps to change that (if you want to be in a relationship). But it is also unhelpful to say "I'm still single because there must be something wrong with me".

[Daligal83]

This conversation reminds me of a theory I learned about in a psych class in undergrad. I don't remember the name of it, but it basically said that we surround ourselves with people who see us the way we see us. So if you think highly of yourself, you're more likely to have people in your life who also think highly of you. But if you have low self-esteem and don't like yourself, being around someone who thinks you are great is going to make you uncomfortable. So then you are more likely to have people around who also don't like you that much or think you are all that great. It's more comforting. So it's possible that these people who have needy or demanding personalities with partners who love them to death, well those partners may not have the best self-esteem. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I have a feeling it happens a lot. I know I've seen it.

[Celadon]

Great discussion! I agree that some people with good self-esteem manage to attract loving S.O.'s because they don't put up with crap, and some needy people repel possible love interests. Like a few posters, though, I've looked at the people I know who are married and others who are single and sometimes it really doesn't seem like there is any rhyme or reason. I couldn't say that Lisa is more loving than Michelle, or Sue is anywhere near as concerned for others as Judy.

 

I like what LilyLooWho said...

You just need to find someone who accepts you even though you have flaws. That is hard to do. Some people are luckier with this than others.

 

I think that is true. Everyone has flaws, and love is not a matter (necessarily) of someone being more wonderful than another person but rather of finding a partner who is not bothered by his/her flaws.

 

I have a dear friend who's errant husband cheated on her repeatedly during their 15 year marriage. She tried to be understanding and accepting. They had kids. He then ran off with a women whom he was having an affair with. He and this "new" woman have now been together for five years.

 

I've met his "new woman" and she seems a right hard-a**e, didn't like her, but I get the feeling she would walk the moment this "former errant husband" showed her disrespect. She's publicly said she could survive on her own, and I fully believe this cheating hussy could. I don't like it, neither does my formally married girlfriend. She simply cannot understand why this new chick is getting better treatment.

 

I TOTALLY feel for your friend, Deciduous. It's never happened to me, nor any one that I know, but it's exactly the type of situation -- taken to the extreme -- that makes me wonder about love.

 

Bottom line is, if you want to do some speculation, don't do it about the general population and who's "lucky" or not. Do it about yourself, and how you can have a great life and optimize the chances of getting what you want.

Thanks, bulletproof. Point well taken.

[Celadon]

I'm a little puzzled by posters saying there is "no such thing as luck". Do I have a different understanding of what luck means than others? Isn't "good timing" and "some people are born with model good looks" another way of talking about luck?

 

But I also know many single people (mostly women, thanks to an apparent "man drought") who are what I would call high-functioning, emotionally and psychologically healthy, and intelligent who have had what I would call bad luck with love and who are single. And I also know people who are insecure, needy, and occasionally just plain mean to their partners who are in long-term relationships. To say it is a matter of "luck" is reductionist, but luck does factor into it.

I agree with you about luck in the form of advantages, Grace. The person also has to use those advantages or play them up, I guess, and maybe that's where good self-esteem or self-interest comes in.

 

I've also made the same observations about single women who have a lot going for them but don't attract men. Go figure!

 

This conversation reminds me of a theory I learned about in a psych class in undergrad. I don't remember the name of it, but it basically said that we surround ourselves with people who see us the way we see us. So if you think highly of yourself, you're more likely to have people in your life who also think highly of you. But if you have low self-esteem and don't like yourself, being around someone who thinks you are great is going to make you uncomfortable. So then you are more likely to have people around who also don't like you that much or think you are all that great. It's more comforting. So it's possible that these people who have needy or demanding personalities with partners who love them to death, well those partners may not have the best self-esteem. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I have a feeling it happens a lot. I know I've seen it.

Interesting. I've seen relationships in which one person is dominant and the other person is passive and actually wants someone to boss him/her around.

[Ms Darcy]

I TOTALLY feel for your friend, Deciduous. It's never happened to me, nor any one that I know, but it's exactly the type of situation -- taken to the extreme -- that makes me wonder about love.

 

It doesn't make me wonder. The errant husband cheats for 15 years ... because he can. Fair or not he loses respect for wife for putting up with it. He leaves for a woman who is vocal about not needing him. He's still with her ... suggesting that he might actually respect her.

 

I have been surprised at how, at appropriately applied times, being a bit of a bia-tch - for lack of a better phrase - can make men I have dated MORE attracted to me. When you show people you won't take bs, they stand up and take you seriously.

[Celadon]

I see what you're saying, but it's sad that someone only respects another person because they get witchy. That's fear, not love. IMHO.

[Ms Darcy]

I see what you're saying, but it's sad that someone only respects another person because they get witchy. That's fear, not love. IMHO.

 

Well, in my case, it's not fear. It is standing up for yourself. It is presenting the unexpected. It is demanding respect.

 

Let's face it - there are a lot of guys who know they could get another girl fairly quickly, especially if they are good looking and financially stable. "High-value" men want "high-value" women, and that means showing them in little ways all the time that you can be supportive of them but you won't support them and you don't need them.

[SapphireNoir10]

I think it can be luck of meeting the right person. Or just meeting someone who loves you 100% for who you are.

 

I went through so many bad relationships now I've been in the happiest, healthiest one of my life for over 14 months. He treats me like a princess. But I don't ask for it. we don't argue, he's never been hurtful towards me, never disrespected me....

 

Part of meeting him was luck, part of it was deciding myself that I wanted to be with someone who treated me right.

[Cheetarah]

Being "witchy" yields results. By witchy, I don't mean this in the sense that you loom over your partner, treat him like a child, and regard him with no respect.

 

But you expect to be treated well and simply will take nothing less than that. Looking at my relationships alone, I can see where I fully believed that and where I did not.

[bulletproof]

I'm a little puzzled by posters saying there is "no such thing as luck". Do I have a different understanding of what luck means than others? Isn't "good timing" and "some people are born with model good looks" another way of talking about luck?

 

I don't think that is how "luck" is being used in this context. "Good timing" is not necessarily "luck." We make decisions every minute of the day that influence where we will be from moment to moment. I would also say that it's a matter of perspective- the person born with "model good looks" may not necessarily consider it a lucky situation. Maybe that person becomes spoiled, selfish, and ultimately very unhappy and insecure, because he/she thinks people only love him/her for looks. Or maybe that good-looking person never develops the potential for anything else, like art or music or intellectual pursuits. That's why I say there is no such thing as luck, per se. Here is a famous example of the same idea, sort of:

 

There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically. "May be," the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed. "May be," replied the old man. The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "May be," answered the farmer. The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "May be," said the farmer.