BF proposed to me but....

[FathomFear]

The issue at this point isn't the lack of ring. It's WHY he hasn't bought her the ring. Because he doesn't have the money saved up in his account for it. Why? Because his mother controls all of his money even though he is a well-paid dentist. And he is too afraid to tell his mother he is marrying her and needs to buy her a ring and start planning a wedding. He's 41 and still under his mother's control. He hasn't grown up into an independent adult. He proposed marriage to her without being ready for that step.

 

I agree that all of that is troubling and would warrant holding off on marriage. No arguments there. The reason why I focused on the OP's reaction is that she mentioned none of that. In other words, even if he were on his own, in full control of his finances, etc, and didn't get her a ring, she still would have had the same reaction. That's still a major problem, IMO, as it shows were the priorities are.

 

Clearly both the OP and her boyfriend need to iron things out in their respective lives before proceeding. And of course it's been insinuated there are cultural boundaries at play as well, which makes commenting intelligently difficult. Some cultures are much different than others, and sometimes immediate and extended family wield significantly more influence.

[camus154]

camus--the "rule" came out of a marketing campaign from De Beers. That's it. It's was 100% marketing.

 

This case study is actually analyzed quite closely due to how effective it's been at changing how we think about love and commitment. The marketing program was so successful that we now intertwine it with how we think. It's shaped cultural consciousness so much so that people now forget that it was 100% a marketing scheme.

 

Another great example of this is when the shampoo industry was going through a rough patch around 40 years ago. Guess what they came up with? They added three words to the instructions on the side of the shampoo bottles. They were "Rinse and repeat". Sales skyrocketed and the rest is history. Same idea, different industry.

 

Hmm, I didn't know that. That's some good history on advertising. Repped, FathomFear.

[annie24]

I dont think that this issue is necessarily to hold off on marriage, because this problem would not exist if they were racing to the altar. It's his inaction, and her being toooooo patient. I mean, unless he starts making some concrete steps towards marriage and starting their lives together, it's time for her to move on.

[Lonewing]

I do believe on one hand, he'd not ready for marriage, but it's because of that bigger hurdle: he's not ready to stand up against his family. At least, he hasn't been, but now he has pressure at his back pushing him forward. If he gets through this hurdle, he will be a stronger man even if the relationship doesn't survive - though I hope it will. If it does survive, I think Op will learn far more about Love than most of us ever will.

 

And as forher family, it's clear he won't force anything upon them, so it would be best if op puts her family's needs on the table and be honest about it. They need to hear him ask for permission - so she needs to clearly communicate this to him. Clearly, he'll need money for the trip, so they will need to go to his family and make their announcements. It's likely to cripple his mom, who's dreaming of a doctor or a PhD, but that's like. My grandfather's mother never did come to like my grandmother, which is her own damn fault because my grandmother has always been one of the best people in my life. That's how things go!

[Lonewing]

I dont think that this issue is necessarily to hold off on marriage, because this problem would not exist if they were racing to the altar. It's his inaction, and her being toooooo patient. I mean, unless he starts making some concrete steps towards marriage and starting their lives together, it's time for her to move on.

 

I think the first concrete serious step they can make is an engagement party [dinner or such] to announce to mom and dad his serious intent to marry her. That would be far more meaningful than any ring will ever be! And not, "mom, dad, can I marry her," but "mom, dad...we're getting married."

[Lonewing]

Btw, I talked to my therapist today, she doesn't understand me why I'm holding on this relationship. I'm obviously not happy. I told her :

"Maybe I'm holding on the fantasies that someday when we're married, we're going to be happy because when I'm with him, I do feel happy and he promised that once we get married, everything will change. He'd wake up next to me and we're going to sleep together every night."

 

She wants me to think again, if it's going to happen and if I'm experiencing "true happiness" when we're together, she might be right. My bf can only see me once a week for a couple of hours, so we both try to make each other happy because we know so little time we have. Maybe because of that, I always believe that he's the one for me.

 

Have you ever thought of taking him with you to see your therapist and then taking the session off yourself? AKA, ye old bait and switch? Therapy may indeed be Very good for him indeed! Perhaps not your therapist, perhaps your therapist; perhaps a couples therapist.

 

You know he makes you happy when he's himself, and you know a good deal about what's holding him back. October, I think you should be seeing your parents together.

[Unreasonable]

Whew. I was somewhat sympatetic up until the "I love you babe, even if you're cheap" line. He just bought you a bunch of presents and you say that??

 

I think the ring thing was a gaffe. The general expectation is that you propose with a ring. I'm a dude and I know that. That was CLEARLY thoughtless, and I can understand the disappointment behind that. But I think you took the offense too far.

 

This reminds me of an idiotic I thing I did with my fiancee. Granted, I was 22 at the time and still quite immature.

 

I had already bought her dream ring and had it in my glove compartment, but I wasn't quite ready to propose. So I bought a semi-realistic fake ring out of a vending machine and gave it to her (without proposing) to see how she reacted. She flipped out and thought I was very cruel to do that and started crying. I realize my stupidity now at my ripe old age but at the time I thought it was a bit of fun. You just don't do that kind of stuff with proposals.

 

Anyway, we ended up having a heart to heart right there, and I pulled the real ring out right there and proposed to her in a fast food restaurant parking lot. Not exactly the way I wanted it to happen but we will never forget it. We've been married 18 years now.

[DN]

The general expectation is that you propose with a ring.

I disagree for the reasons I stated earlier.

[annie24]

Have you ever thought of taking him with you to see your therapist and then taking the session off yourself? AKA, ye old bait and switch? Therapy may indeed be Very good for him indeed! Perhaps not your therapist, perhaps your therapist; perhaps a couples therapist.

 

You know he makes you happy when he's himself, and you know a good deal about what's holding him back. October, I think you should be seeing your parents together.

 

I agree. Would he be willing to see a therapist? And maybe he can join you in some sessions with your current therapist for some sessions so you guys can talk about moving the relationship forward. And perhaps coming up with a "script" to tell the parents about your engagement.

[lovinggirl]

I agree. Would he be willing to see a therapist? And maybe he can join you in some sessions with your current therapist for some sessions so you guys can talk about moving the relationship forward. And perhaps coming up with a "script" to tell the parents about your engagement.

 

He opposes counseling. We talked about this after I read a book called "When He's Married to His Mom", all the descriptions match him! He said he'd think about it, and when I asked him again, he said he wouldn't do it. He told me he knows his parents better than anyone else, why would he listen to someone (therapist)'s advice who doesn't understand his parents and him? Basically he thinks therapist is a stranger and he doesn't believe in those kind of things. I also talked about attachment and childhood wound, I felt I wasn't getting enough attention from my parents when I was a kid, so I grew up feeling inadequate and not worthy of love. He said that everyone has their own freedom to decide on their future, regardless how your parents treated you. He always thinks I'm spoiled and it's either my way or highway. It's very hard to communicate with him my needs without him feeling I'm trying to control him.

 

He has his own plan. His plan is we continue dating and he keeps spreading good words about me to his parents. When his parents feel the time is right, they will finally say, "OK, why don't you invite lovinggirl to spend time with us." and after spending time more and more and his parents comfortable with me, he would tell his parents he wants to marry me. When I asked him how long, he couldn't promise me. He only said, "Hopefully soon."

I don't know why I'm terrified to hear that. My life always has a plan. When I should graduate from school, when I should get married, when I should have a kid, when to take vacation, when to visit my family, etc etc, there always have to something to look forward to. To hear something, "Soon, As Soon As Possible, I'll try my best." unacceptable for me. I notice this with my work also, if I demand something from my co-worker, I can't accept those words, I need them to tell me the exact time, close of business day, in an hour, in 3 days, etc. Something wrong with me?

 

With my bf is totally opposite, he doesn't like to be pressured. Yesterday when I said I'd give him one month to buy a ring, he was bargaining until Dec 25, then October, then September, made me sooo upset because he sounded like this is a joke. I asked him later that night, why he did that. He said because I was so rigid and he didn't like it. He wanted to see if I could bend. I think he wanted to make sure if I was flexible enough and not controlling.

 

When I heard that, I seriously think we're not compatible. I think he needs a 'happy go lucky' girl, a little bit cuckoo, agrees with him all the time, very sweet, and carefree. I'm not that person. I could be sweet and affectionate, but when it comes to my future, I really want that security feeling.

So when I mentioned that to him last night.

Me : You know, lately I realize that we're not compatible. I think we should break up.

Him : Is that what you believe? We're not compatible and we should break up?

Me : Yeah, you don't believe that?

Him : No. Because if I believed that, we're not going to be together anymore. I don't believe it and I don't want to break up.

Me : Why? why? why? (I was so frustrated)

Him : Because I love you

Me : If you love me why you hurt me?

Him : How?

Me : By not keeping your promises.

Him : (sigh) I told you million times, you have to be patient and give me some time. We will get my parents approval, but it takes time, I don't control my parents and once we get their approval, everything going to be smooth for us. You just need to have faith in me. Please.

Me : If I ask you to tell your parents tonight, are you brave enough to do that?

Him : Yes, is that what you want?

Me : Yes that's what I want.

Him : Why you're like this? Being controlling again.

 

That's why every time I tells him my needs, he always feels like I'm trying to control him and he resents me for that. It's so hard to talk to him because he never listens. He wants me to let him handle it, he wants me to be patient and wait for him, but I can't....I just can't. I'm terrified of that "uncertainty". I think my options are either to fight my fear of that "uncertainty" and be serene--let everything to God's hands and let God show the way, or to leave him for good...

[metrogirl]

I think you should be prepared to never get the proposal or acceptance you want. If he has to wait for his parents to finally decide that you are welcome to spend time with him and them then you should just call it a day.

[lovinggirl]

Btw, about the ring, I've decided not to talk to him again about that until we get his parents' approval. Really, I think I've lowered myself enough and I think I'm worth it with or without ring. But I do resent him for that. So much. I don't know if I should tell him this. I don't want to sound I'm bitter and hateful. I hope God really open his eyes someday, or even punish him---well, not punish him to make him miserable, but make him feel guilty.

[Batya33]

Was this conversation typed to each other? I would suggest not having serious conversations like this on line. The way I understand it you were testing him to see what he would do if you mentioned breaking up - not a good game to play. If you truly want to break up then just do it, but don't use it as a threat. He's not interested in marrying you at this time, despite his proposal. He's interested in continuing to date you and if his parents come around then he'll consider marrying you. I don't think you two have compatible goals or plans. There's no point in pressuring someone to buy you an engagement ring. In fact, one of the basic parts of marriage vows is to be clear that you're standing there of your own free will and want to marry the person, not under some sort of pressure.

[annie24]

He has his own plan. His plan is we continue dating and he keeps spreading good words about me to his parents. When his parents feel the time is right, they will finally say, "OK, why don't you invite lovinggirl to spend time with us." and after spending time more and more and his parents comfortable with me, he would tell his parents he wants to marry me. When I asked him how long, he couldn't promise me. He only said, "Hopefully soon."

 

Pffft. You've been patient long enough. He now wants to "spread good words" about you----- after almost 5 years together???? I hope you see how ridiculous this situation is. If he doesn't want to go to therapy, and he doesn't want to tell his parents about the engagement this weekend, you know, it's just time to leave. And this time, don't come back. I know you love him and I bet he loves you, but he's in love with his parents, and he's never been his own person. You can love someone, while acknowledging this relationship is not right for you.

 

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? And do you want children, and if so, how many? As you are well aware, you don't have all the time in the world to be patient if you want to be a biological mother. 5 years - you've been patient long enough.

 

If anything, walking away from him might finally spur him into action and force him to grow up. Being patient is more of a holding pattern. I swear, I think he is just waiting for his parents to die so he can marry you. that could be a while though. My grandmothers lived to be 95 and 97.

[lovinggirl]

I think you should be prepared to never get the proposal or acceptance you want. If he has to wait for his parents to finally decide that you are welcome to spend time with him and them then you should just call it a day.

 

Yes...I'm thinking about that too since looooong ago---that's why I'm on and off with him...but I'm afraid of the "what if". What if his family like me? What if we get along?

I hate how arrogant he sound when it comes to his family. He would tell me, "you have to be patient, it's going to be worth it." or "you have to be patient, or you're going to lose it all."

What so special living with his parents? Yes, they're doctors, they're wealthy, they go to nice vacation twice a year, they have plenty of cash....Is that why I have to wait?

[annie24]

Yes...I'm thinking about that too since looooong ago---that's why I'm on and off with him...but I'm afraid of the "what if". What if his family like me? What if we get along?

I hate how arrogant he sound when it comes to his family. He would tell me, "you have to be patient, it's going to be worth it." or "you have to be patient, or you're going to lose it all."

What so special living with his parents? Yes, they're doctors, they're wealthy, they go to nice vacation twice a year, they have plenty of cash....Is that why I have to wait?

 

Meanwhile, you could have met and married a man who isn't living with his parents, who has his own bank account, who bought you a ring, and who goes with you on vacations, and you would have children together. but as long as you are on and off in this situation, you can't go off and find this happiness.

[annie24]

PS - totally agreed with batya about having a face to face, serious discussion about this. If you think it's time to break up, then so be it. His proposal was not genuine, despite what he says. If he's saying that you are being controlling by stating your needs, well then, maybe you need a man who will meet your needs. and he should find a woman that his mother approves of so he can marry her.

 

PPS - the mother-in-law sounds like she is going to be a witch. Did you ever think that maybe God is trying to "protect you" by not having you marry in to this family?!?!?

[lovinggirl]

Was this conversation typed to each other? I would suggest not having serious conversations like this on line. The way I understand it you were testing him to see what he would do if you mentioned breaking up - not a good game to play. If you truly want to break up then just do it, but don't use it as a threat. He's not interested in marrying you at this time, despite his proposal. He's interested in continuing to date you and if his parents come around then he'll consider marrying you. I don't think you two have compatible goals or plans. There's no point in pressuring someone to buy you an engagement ring. In fact, one of the basic parts of marriage vows is to be clear that you're standing there of your own free will and want to marry the person, not under some sort of pressure.

 

Yeah, I know after we talked last night. I regretted it to say a break up words. I should just change my number, ignore him, and totally leaving him out of the blue.

I know he's not ready at all. Then why propose? Why not telling me what's on his heart?

This is not about not having enough money to buy a ring, not about his parents approval. I think HE IS THE ONE who's not sure with me. When we started to date (very early) I did make a mistake by telling him I like when guys giving me attention. It's flattering. It's just a innocent statement! I didn't know after years, that statement worries him, he worries I'm still looking for guys' attention. If we're at the restaurant, he would try to avoid I'm being looked by guys because he thinks I'm a looker either by requesting other table or change seat with me. He also said he's afraid I'm going to leave him when things go bad.

He just want to wait and see my faithfulness and my loyalty. But on the other hand, I'm so insecure here, I'm not getting younger...

You're right, we're not compatible in term of goals or plans.

[lovinggirl]

Btw, I just turned 31, so when I met him, I was 26...kinda 'force' him to marry me when I was 28, look how it turned! LoL

[annie24]

I don't think you should blame yourself. Sure, maybe there are things you could have done better. but heck, he's a mama's boy. And he isn't going to marry anyone unless his mama picks her out for him. It's easy for him to say be patient. Men can have children forever.

 

How much longer do you think you can wait until you are finally sick of things and say, "enough!" and walk away?

[annie24]

I should just change my number, ignore him, and totally leaving him out of the blue.

 

No. I think if you're going to break up, then you should do it properly, and in person. Something like, "I love you, I want to be your wife, but it is clear to me that you do not want me to be your wife. So I am going to move on with my life. Goodbye."

[abitbroken]

His idea is valid only if he has been dating you only dating you 3-6 months - deciding you are a serious girlfriend after 6 months or 8 months and then giving mom and their time to give you their official approval - not after 5 years! He should never have proposed as the first step in this.

 

Really, when you think about it - if you NEVER have been to his house and had dinner with his folks, you have been a "secret girlfriend."

 

And as far as the book and the therapy - the problem is that he sees this as normal and not a problem. He doesn't see that it is not the way most people do things and accept - not the cultural formality of approval but every single thing else. I know some people would disagree and say living with the parents is cultural - but definitely not having your own money that you earn!

 

If this were the case and he recognized this is where he needs to change - that's one thing, but he clearly does not.

 

If you are 31, I don't know if you want to hear this - but you have PLENTY of time to meet a wonderful man and have children. You could break up with this guy, take a full year or so to not go on ANY dates and just heal and work through your own personal issues, then start to dip your toe in the pool. By 35, you could be married to a great guy and have one or two beautiful children already -- or you could be 35 and still be waiting for this guy - or married to this guy, being miserable living with his folks and his mom being the "lady of the house" and ruling. But repeat to yourself - there is NO timeline on when to meet the right one.

 

So, don't think he is your last chance.

 

I agree with Annie.

 

I WOULD just cool off on talking to him online or by text. I would not be so quick to answer him. Take a deep breath. Go take a walk. Do something with female friends. Then go talk to him in person even if you get your thoughts together and wait a few days. Don't accept a strict time limit for your conversation where he pencils you in for 20 minutes. This way you are not just doing something for the dramatic impact - this way you can fully mean it from the heart. Don't do it in a flurry on the phone - you want to be as calm and undramatic as possible. He may very well think that this is just a threat - you leave and he chases after you after awhile. But you have to stick by your word. he might think you are just blowing smoke right now.

 

But if you decide to give him some time, you have to talk to him about what he honestly expects when you are married. Does he really expect his mom to rule? I don't think you ever had much of a conversation about what roles you would take. And that discussion may put the nail in the coffin anyhow.

[metrogirl]

Forgive me if this has already been asked, I don't want to look through everything, but are you even sure he lives with his parents and not a gf or wife somewhere? The whole story is just so bizarre.

[Snny]

My life always has a plan. When I should graduate from school, when I should get married, when I should have a kid, when to take vacation, when to visit my family, etc etc, there always have to something to look forward to. To hear something, "Soon, As Soon As Possible, I'll try my best." unacceptable for me. I notice this with my work also, if I demand something from my co-worker, I can't accept those words, I need them to tell me the exact time, close of business day, in an hour, in 3 days, etc. Something wrong with me?

Yikes.

 

I hate to break it to you, but life isn't about living a plan. There are situations that arise that will catch you off guard- it's about learning how to deal with them instead of getting pissed off or setting yourself up for disappointment. It took me 7 years to get a proposal from my current partner and I was expecting to get married next year. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen because I lost my job and my fiance had to go back to school (which also fell through because the school got sued by grads who aren't getting jobs and was forced to close their programs... we just found this out today).

 

Stuff happens no matter how hard you plan your "schedule" out. The question is, what are YOU going to do about it?

 

Right now you are pressuring him to do SOMETHING when he is not ready. This is something you need to accept in order to move on with YOUR life. Also, it is unfair to compare your relationship with your partner to a coworker. Deadlines and ultimatums backfire in relationships, not in the workforce.

 

At 31, it's not too late to start anew with another man who is mature and READY to settle. You still got time. Don't count this guy as being your last and instead, walk it off feeling BLESSED you don't have in-laws dictating his and your family life. Even if you do end up marrying this guy, it's not going to solve your relationship problems.

[lovinggirl]

Forgive me if this has already been asked, I don't want to look through everything, but are you even sure he lives with his parents and not a gf or wife somewhere? The whole story is just so bizarre.

 

Nope...definitely no wife and lives with parents. I went to his house and spent time with his family. I know where his clinic is and met with his staffs, absolutely not a cheater, but just have a very strong and weird bond with his family.