BF proposed to me but....

[Snny]

I would not accept a proposal without a ring because it shows how committed my partner is; for the same reasons Camus explained.

 

I was "engaged" to someone in the military when I was 18 and still in high school. He had no ring- did it over the phone right before he went into a very dangerous mission in Iraq. He came back home alive and well.... still no ring and never shopped for one. By that time I was a frshman in college. He was not only abusive toward me but he cheated behind my back with two different women. He only verbally proposed because of the situation he was in and to reassure himself while he kept me waiting around for something good to happen (which never came). He had a lot of money too from serving in the Marines too, but he was selfish with it- just bought toys (el;ectronics and a sportscar) for himself.

 

Least I ended up with a man who still was able to propose to me, mad a decent salary and bought a new sportscar two months before proposing. And he makes LESS than a dentist.

 

Priorities, OP. that being said... if this guy was truly devoted, he would of got off his ass and got you a ring.He says one thing about he is committed to you, but his actions speak a different direction. Really.

 

But the biggest problem is this:

No, he hasn't told his parents yet. We're not going to have this situation if his parents approve us and love me. His mom seriously has issue with LETTING GO. I don't think she's going to give her approval easily.

This man is not ready for commitment nor has he grown up. This is unacceptable and I am appalled that you agreed to live with his parents as a married couple. I would of laid down the law and said "If you want to marry me, I want to have our space by getting a home together." And if he doesn't agree with it, then it speaks loudly about where his priorities and commitment levels are.

 

At 41, you'd think he would tell his mother to lay off and get his own place?

 

OP you are dating a child. Why on earth are you settling for this? He's got a disgusting, selfish attitude and doesn't think of "us." All his plans are about HIMSELF. Hell no.

 

And if you both get married, I can 110% guarantee that his mother will intervene in your marriage at every opportunity she gets. You will have almost no say what goes on in your marriage because his mother is THAT controlling. Your man will never stand up to his mother whenever she crosses the line. You will always be in the position to cater to your in-laws and it will add a tremendous amount of strain on YOUR MARRIAGE.

 

Forget the ring or being engaged to him- Get rid of this guy for good and MOVE ON to someone who is a mature adult. Someone who isn't so sheltered and still tied to their mother's apron. That's a husband you need in your life to live in a happy marriage.

[lovinggirl]

Thank you all for your responses.

My bf is very private about his financial situation, but I notice he always uses cash, he has several credit cards but they're all linked together with his parents'. He said his mom control all his salary. She put most of it to retirement fund--so it'll be tax free. He told me he's been saving up from patients who paid cash to buy the ring. He doesn't want to tell me how much he has now, he doesn't want me to pressure him, he doesn't want me to pressure him to tell his parents. He always says, "give them some time, my parents can't be pressured."

 

Reading above responses, really make me want to throw up and cry. I think you guys are right. The issue here is not the ring, it's our relationship itself. We're actually together for 4.5 years, but it's on and off. Last time we're off in July 2011, and we just got back together again Feb 2012, last time we broke up it's because his mom wanted him to date a doctor/dentist/pharmacist or someone from health industry and made him go to this meet up for doctors. He went there and it broke my heart. I couldn't believe how strong I was when we broke up, I ignored him completely. He text, emailed, called and came to my place several times. He did date a doctor during our b/u and it didn't go well so they stopped seeing each other. In January, after counseling with my therapist, I decided to meet him again to tell him if he wanted to reconcile with me, I need to see his mom's approval and after that I want to get engaged as soon as possible. He promised me that. Some time in March, his sister got ill badly, they all have to take care of his sister, and his mom also has health issues, he asked me to be patient and let him handle it. I know he's not ready to propose on my bday, I could feel it. But I told him if he didn't keep his promise, I had to make a decision. I think that's why he proposed to me.

 

I'm so scared to tell my parents, because I'm not sure if he's serious or not. The first time I told my mom I want to marry this guy, my mom got so furious. She told me, "You think you want to marry, you just marry? How disrespectful! He has to come to your dad and me and ask for our approval!", but he can't speak our language, my parents can't speak English. Every time I tried to talk to my mom about him, my mom was so negative, "How can you want to be with him? I don't approve!" then she would hang up on me, because she doesn't want to talk about it anymore. The only way to get my parents' approval is him to go there and ask in person. We talked about this last year before we broke up. He wanted to but couldn't do anything because of his parents. His parents know about this because they demanded the same for his sister, but I think his parents still hoping he can get a doctor/dentist wife. My bf said, he doesn't want anyone but me, so he told me to be patient and don't break up with him anymore.

 

I don't know why it's so hard to communicate with my bf. Every time I talk to him about what I want, he would be deaf and thinking that I start to control him. But he never tells me what he wants. Every time I ask him what he wants, he ask me back, "what do you want?" but after that never listen to me.

I hate him....but love him at the same time. Part of me want to leave him, but part of me want to wait and see. Part of me really sick of him, but part of me really adore him.

I woke up this morning feeling sick to stomach when I remember what he's done to me, but disappear when I saw his text telling me he loves me.

 

I'm afraid I'm mentally sick.....

[annie24]

you both strike me as people who haven't fully grown up and are independent of your parents. maybe in that way, you are a good match, i don't know.

 

he's obviously not grown up if his mother is handling all his money and he has to wait for patients to pay in cash so he can "secretly" purchase his fiance a ring. how sad. i don't know about other people, but I have NEVER paid a dental bill in cash. Only credit or debit card. i mean, he is a grown man, if he wants to go and buy whatever for himself, he should be able to do so without interference from his family. i agree with snny - if you do end up marrying him, his mother would interfere in every single decision you make.

 

so, he hasn't bought you a ring, because he hasn't set up a "ring account" because his mother would not approve of such an expenditure. his parents even told him to break up with you and to date female doctors.

 

if you want to be with this man, you and he both need to become independent before marrying. he has to establish his own bank accounts, that he manages, without input from his mother. he needs to stand up to them and tell them he is marrying you and the decision is final. if they threaten to disown him, who cares? he makes enough money to live on his own. he doesn't need an inheritance. if he is waiting to marry you until his parents die, well, you could be waiting a long time.

 

i think your mother can't really tell you from half a world away that she doesn't like this man and will not approve of the marriage. you're an adult, you can do as you please. then again, she probably has a really just cause not to like him if he has been so on and off, a man child for all these years. blah.

[annie24]

In January, after counseling with my therapist, I decided to meet him again to tell him if he wanted to reconcile with me, I need to see his mom's approval and after that I want to get engaged as soon as possible.

 

One more thing.... since this was what you two discussed in January as the conditions of getting back together, I think that the next thing you need to do is to tell both sets of parents about the engagement. And then you need to decide what to do if he doesn't follow through in a reasonable amount of time.

[Batya33]

I'm sorry these posts upset you so much - I can relate to that feeling and I know how icky it can be. The bright side -the silver lining - you now know what needs to be resolved ,specifically, before you move forward and because you know the specifics you can also decide on your own or with a therapist whether this is a good match for you long term. It's hard to let go after such a long investment -I had to let someone go after a 7 year on again off again relationship and 6 months later I started dating my husband. If I hadn't had the courage or strength to let go (I was in my late 30s at the time) I would have never reconnected with my husband -who was then an ex-boyfriend. It's all too easy to stay in a mediocre relationship - but it's sad if doing so means you risk passing up opportunities to meet people who might be a better match for you. Think about it. Good luck.

[Snny]

She told me, "You think you want to marry, you just marry? How disrespectful! He has to come to your dad and me and ask for our approval!", but he can't speak our language, my parents can't speak English.

You know what... my parents held the same traditional belief. A circumstance happened when my fiance didn't have the time to receive my parents' blessing and he had this one day PLANNED that he couldn't back out of (because it was at a Hockey game and tickets for our team are expensive). He went and did it anyway according to HIS plan... not anyone else's. My parents later found out and were not 100% happy, but my fiance made up for it and took my dad out on his own. They are good friends now.

 

My parents had NEVER accepted of my interracial relationship with a forgiener (he is Asian too btw). They strongly did not approve of me moving in with him when I got a job where he lived and the proposal was anothe issue on top of it. Things have calmed WAY down since then because I stood up to my parents and let them know that though I respected them and their views, I was not going to let their approval/disapproval affect the way I chose to live my life.

 

Part of being an adult is dealing with other's disapproval, but not letting it rule you. This is what you BOTH need to work on BEFORE getting married- handling people who try to control you and meaning business when you tell them "No, I will not let you do this to me."

 

here's another serious consideration you need to decide on BEFORE marrying this man:

My bf is very private about his financial situation, but I notice he always uses cash, he has several credit cards but they're all linked together with his parents'. He said his mom control all his salary. She put most of it to retirement fund--so it'll be tax free. He told me he's been saving up from patients who paid cash to buy the ring.

Not only does he allow his parents to control him-- a full grown 41 year old man-- but he is dishonest to his parents AND he doesn't know how to handle his own money... at 41 years old. BIG PROBLEM. If he is dishonest to his parents... I don't think he was honest to you if you strongly believe he only proposed to keep you around and was not into committing his life WITH YOU. Did you know that financial issues is the NUMBER ONE reason why marriages end up in divorce? If he doesn't know how to manage his own money without the support of his parents... that is a MAJOR red flag.

 

I personally could not marry an individual who is controlled by his own parents and does not know how to manage his money on his own.

 

OP, I know you are upset by the hard truths coming out from our posts. However, it is best that you know this before agreeing to marry someone who is not right for you. in a way, you are more independent than he is and you need a man who can handle his own responsibilities so it doesn't stress YOU out. His family is full of drama that I truly think it's best you end this relationship before you are tied to this person and are dragged through the drama of your future in-laws. You need to make a decision SOON if this relationship is going to help and support your needs.... right now, it doesn't because your boyfriend/fiance lacks a backbone when he is a grown man and should be handling this drama himself.

[abitbroken]

I think that your boyfriend SHOULD meet your parents before marrying you. Even if he doesn't speak their language, you can be an interpreter, right? You both obviously speak English and you obviously speak mom and dad's language. Also, it is 20-20 hindsight, but if he was serious about you, you both could have gotten on Skype with your folks. If they don't have that technology, maybe there is a tech savvy relative or a friend who has a smartphone, etc.

 

I see where mom is coming from if you guys have broken up several times. She is just concerned for her daughter and that her daughter won't be happy. She is not being a mother who just disapproves to disapprove. I bet your parents would have met you halfway if you never had breakups with him and they were able to meet him in someway and see that you were happy. They might be old fashioned, but if the relationship has so many issues that it ended a few times, she has reason for concern for you.

 

I do think that I would be less distressed about the ring AND even living with the parents than I am about how all of his money is handled by mother. I don't think there is any culture that dictates that your parents must be in control of all your money. I know of cultures where the child takes care of the parents, but the parents don't get the money first and divvy it out to the child if they are an adult and making their own money. The child freely gives to the parents. This is not a cultural issue at that point, it is a codependency issue.

 

There is a saying that boys grow up when their mother lets them.

 

What will happen when married? Will you financially be like a single person? Or will it be that if you don't let her handle your money there will be a war. Or is it understood that its a natural progression that the wife takes over and the parents are looking forward to that?

 

I think that you need to examine why you were on again off again with him on other factors besides lack of engagement. I see why you gave him a condition, but if he lost you and then the condition was get engaged or leave you alone, it is not a very enthusiastic response from him in some ways - you think he would have gotten parents approval already, etc. The more backstory sheds more light on the subject.

[Lonewing]

If someone is not Allowed to grow up, they never will. He hasn't been allowed to grow up, nor manage his finances, nor do anything with his life except what his parents tell him to do. I have little doubt that his "retirement fund" is just his mother's way to perhaps use his money for herself. At this point, he's more than old enough to learn how to manage his own finances, he's just not had that opportunity; something tells me his mom keeps him on a shoe string.

 

Do insist that he spreads his wings. You and him need to stand up to his parents and announce your betrothal. Perhaps it will all go to heck and fall apart, that could be a good thing in and of itself. At the same time, it could also be the moment you And him! turn the corner on all of this together. And in doing so you'll strengthen the reality that you are engaged, and he's not hiding you anymore. I bet everything he's kept all of this a secret from his parents, because they disapprove of you - you're not a doctor, dentist, etc. If you can get them to accept your betrothal you'll be in a much better position to get him to get money to take that trip to see your parents. Even if you're betrothed where you are, I'd not have the wedding until you've given him the chance to make that trip to ask your parents permission, and you have given your parents the chance to give that permission - even if he doesn't speak their language!

 

You MAY become the personal accounttant for your family. He's been used to this for so long, he may not be able to do without it. I have little doubt that his mom is going to be very very resistant to giving up her role as his personal accounttant. Yes, he may be her blood, but when money gets involved, people seem to get ugly.

 

I do not doubt that he is a good match for you - it seems like you both make each other happy - I just think he's had his growth stunted for so long that he's been ill-prepared for this moment, this moment of reckoning that has been coming for all his life.

[lovinggirl]

All, please don't misunderstand. I don't feel upset with your responses or the hard truth. I'm sick with my bf and with me who tolerate his actions.

 

Today on my way home, he called me. I asked him again but not about the ring, but about announcing about us to my family.

Me : Babe, I want to tell my parents that we're dating and serious.

Him : Hmm I know, you're getting pressure from them right? I know babe, you're not young anymore and they're worried you live here by yourself, they want you to get married soon.

Me : Yeah not only that, they keep introducing me to guys.

Him : I see. You know, they're your parents, you know them better than I do. If you think you need to tell them, go. If you need to wait, that's OK for me too.

 

His lack of interest about my family, made me a little bit upset. Then I complained how he never cared about my family, never made an effort to talk to my parents, etc. He was defensive and gave me excuses. Then I talked about his proposal :

Me : So I don't know what we are. We're engaged, but we're not able to plan our wedding. So what's the purpose of being engaged?

Him : Yeah, we need to get my parents approval first, otherwise, even if we plan the wedding but it's not gonna happen.

Me : When do you think we can get your parents approval? Few years? Few months?

Him : I don't know, please give me some time. I know you don't like to hear this, but please be patient. I hope it's not gonna be a few years, I hope it's only few months. We're both not young anymore. I know you're concern about having your childbearing year. I'm aware of it. I need to get you a ring and my parents approval

Me : Which one first, the ring or approval?

Him : I don't know, whichever comes first.

Me : What do you mean?

 

Then I continued to be angry with him because he kept changing his mind and accusing him not being serious (again for the past 3 days!) I finally told him, I'd give him one month until mid August to give me the ring, or I'm going to move on without him. He then, ridiculously tried to bargain with me. Like :

Him : I can't do one month, can you give me more time?

Me : How long do need?

Him : Give me until Dec 25

(I was sooooo upset at this point)

Me : O my God, you're so cheap. You want to give me the ring as Christmas present?

Him : No, no, I know you already, no matter what I do, you're gonna think I'm cheap. You're going to get 2 presents.

Me : You know what? I'm tired of comprising. Next month.

Him : Can you do half way? How about mid Oct?

Me : No

 

After we got off the phone, I cried and felt sick to my stomach. I text him :

"I still can't believe our conversation, it's so lame. I'm not supposed to ask you for the ring. I have lowered myself. This is not about the ring anymore, you're unbelievable, immature, cheapskate. I can't believe that I love you and want to marry you."

 

Then he replied :

"You don't need to ask me. I'm going to give it to you. I've been saving up for months."

 

We stopped there. I want to break up with him so bad now. Soooo bad....But I feel that I want to break up with him to punish him, not to "really" break up with him. I hate myself for that...I really hate myself for that. I really don't know what to do now. I just want to hurt him. I'm holding myself not to contact him until he call me, but I don't know what to say when he calls. I'm sick and disgusted with him. I don't know why I can feel totally different feelings, he disgusts me but I still love him.

[lovinggirl]

Btw, I talked to my therapist today, she doesn't understand me why I'm holding on this relationship. I'm obviously not happy. I told her :

"Maybe I'm holding on the fantasies that someday when we're married, we're going to be happy because when I'm with him, I do feel happy and he promised that once we get married, everything will change. He'd wake up next to me and we're going to sleep together every night."

 

She wants me to think again, if it's going to happen and if I'm experiencing "true happiness" when we're together, she might be right. My bf can only see me once a week for a couple of hours, so we both try to make each other happy because we know so little time we have. Maybe because of that, I always believe that he's the one for me.

[abitbroken]

I think that he is telling you "whatever you think is best" in telling your parents because he doesn't want to push you into something you don't want to do.

 

Do NOT break up with him just to punish him or just to get him to act.

 

Take a deep breath.

 

If you want to break up with him, it has to be because its over, not to cause behavior in him. You have already been there, done that.

 

I think that what needs to immediately happen is for you to tell your parents, and you are avoiding it. Ask him "are you willing to meet my parents to properly ask for my hand?" and "Why do you need more time to ask your parents?" Please separate the saving for the ring with the permission. He seems to think that the ring and the permission is on the same timeline. (and if the ring is not til December, he might as well just buy a wedding band) His parents live with him. He needs to ask his parents immediately for their permission...no...TELL them he is marrying you. If not, he better have an absolutely legitimate reason or plan that he must articulate to you why he is not.

 

If he cannot talk to his parents immediately - as in the next few days - then why did he ask you to marry him?

 

I think that you need to talk in person. And at that time, you need an absolute honest discussion - not a "where's my ring" but deeper than that. You need to ask him if it is true that his mother holds all his money, how will this change if you marry, and is he afraid to ask his parents about you and WHY. He needs to give absolute honest answers. But I agree that it is a good idea to let him be for a few days unless he contacts you so that you can cool off and really think about things.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that he can't stand up to mom because he'd have to ask her for his money, right? He doesn't want to tell her that he is taking money to buy you a ring and that is why he is using the cash that she doesn't see.

 

I always thinkj k it is never good to pressure a guy - but he created his own pressure by proposing and then almost rescinding it because he can't face mom and dad.

[abitbroken]

Btw, I talked to my therapist today, she doesn't understand me why I'm holding on this relationship. I'm obviously not happy. I told her :

"Maybe I'm holding on the fantasies that someday when we're married, we're going to be happy because when I'm with him, I do feel happy and he promised that once we get married, everything will change. He'd wake up next to me and we're going to sleep together every night."

 

She wants me to think again, if it's going to happen and if I'm experiencing "true happiness" when we're together, she might be right. My bf can only see me once a week for a couple of hours, so we both try to make each other happy because we know so little time we have. Maybe because of that, I always believe that he's the one for me.

 

Sleeping together every night would be nice, but how would you feel living in his parents house with his parents next to him every night? You have some major thinking to do and have to have some major discussions about that.

 

I think its possible you could be okay but you have a LOT of stuff to do before you consider marriage like being a bigger part of eachother's lives. Right now it seems to me that you are not really compatible financially, or in other ways.

 

btw, telling him he is an immature cheapskate - do you respect him???

 

Why after all this time can he only see you once a week? I know you are both busy but if he is a dentist, isn't he off several nights a week and probably has a day where he goes in later? I think by this point, you should be seeing eachother way more even if the other days are not "dates" but quick coffees, etc? If he won't leave his parents alone for more than a couple hours in his free time, i mean, what the heck?

[grainsofrice]

Ok, I didn't read everything but I read the thread in bit and pieces.

 

I must say that a dentist at age 41 not buying a ring for a marriage proposal is amazing. I'd like to think that he is special ordering the ring from Costco and resizing it? The timing was off and didn't get it to you onetime? Let's know when you get the ring. I'll do a credit check on this guy first.

[lovinggirl]

If he cannot talk to his parents immediately - as in the next few days - then why did he ask you to marry him?

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that he can't stand up to mom because he'd have to ask her for his money, right? He doesn't want to tell her that he is taking money to buy you a ring and that is why he is using the cash that she doesn't see.

 

He said he's asking me because he wanted to keep his promise. But if only words, before my bday he had asked me 2 times already.

 

Your suspicion is the truth. He told me his parents opened an account for him (and his siblings) when they're kids, they have access to his account. He claimed he can do whatever he wants with his money, but I doubt it. He always paid cash whenever he's with me. As for the ring, he said his mom will suspect if he draws significant money from his account, and of course he doesn't want to deal with his mom.

I think his mom is too protective--and because they're wealthy, she's afraid his son is going to marry a gold digger.

 

You know, I just have this conversation with him a couple nights ago, I asked him if we're going to open an account together when we're married, he said we both should have our individual account and we open another account together. I don't know if I should be insulted or not.

[annie24]

If he can't tell his mom, today, that he is planning on marrying you, why are you still with him?

[lovinggirl]

btw, telling him he is an immature cheapskate - do you respect him???

 

I know...I feel so bad. I think I'm also immature when I call him names. Do I respect him? I'm afraid I can't say 'Yes', I have this bad habit when I'm hurt by him, I just want to hurt him bad. I can't do anything except called him immature and cheap, because I know he doesn't like it when I call him that. Just last night I told him I'm sorry sometimes I said things that hurt him, even though he seems fine, I know he's hurt inside....

 

I'm so hurt now...also feel hurt because I know I've hurt him...

[grainsofrice]

Ok, I think your bf is fake. Do you know his real name or even his last name? At least look up his dental license on the state dental board.

 

I once saw a program on TruCrime about a fake Dr lying to an immigrant lady who works at the bank. She married him only to find out he was fake and ..... Good luck to you!

[annie24]

I know...I feel so bad. I think I'm also immature when I call him names. Do I respect him? I'm afraid I can't say 'Yes', I have this bad habit when I'm hurt by him, I just want to hurt him bad. I can't do anything except called him immature and cheap, because I know he doesn't like it when I call him that. Just last night I told him I'm sorry sometimes I said things that hurt him, even though he seems fine, I know he's hurt inside....

 

I'm so hurt now...also feel hurt because I know I've hurt him...

 

Your other option is just tO walk away for good. You don't have to call him names. He keeps asking you to be patient but you've been patient for far too long. Do his parents even know he is dating you?

[FathomFear]

I had to stop reading

 

I am shocked at your behaviour .

 

what do you think love is all bout ?

 

 

good luck op !!

 

This was my exact reaction. I could barely finish reading the post.

 

The OP is likely so programmed with the whole princess mindset that she doesn't even see how materialistic and superficial it is. Luckily people can change, though, so hopefully this thread puts her on that path.

[FathomFear]

I think the ring is like a symbol that he means it and serious when he proposed to me. What accountability he has when he asked me to marry him? Is it because he promised it would happen on my bday? Just to keep his promise? I'm disappointed because I felt like he's not taking this seriously and manipulated me.

 

Two questions:

1) You say that the ring is a symbol that shows his accountability and seriousness in wanting to marry you. What is your symbol and sign of seriousness? Why does he need to prove it and you don't?

2) If you're worrying about his manipulating or lying, then you shouldn't get married as you clearly don't trust him. Then again, perhaps the larger issue is that you don't trust men in general and thus believe that love and devotion can only be proven via materialism. Is that an accurate statement?

[DN]

FF - I think you need to read the rest of this thread to get a clearer idea of what is going on here.

[FathomFear]

Everything in its proper context. The whole point behind the 2 months' salary rule is symbolic. It's saying, the engagement ring is a symbol of your intention. You save up 2 months' worth of your hard-earned cash because that's how serious your intent is to marry this woman. It's not about the money, but it IS about the sacrifice--financial or otherwise--that you're willing to make for this symbol. That's why this rule is based on salary rather than some hard dollar amount. 2 months' worth whether you're a cashier or a dentist is roughly equivalent.

 

camus--the "rule" came out of a marketing campaign from De Beers. That's it. It's was 100% marketing.

 

This case study is actually analyzed quite closely due to how effective it's been at changing how we think about love and commitment. The marketing program was so successful that we now intertwine it with how we think. It's shaped cultural consciousness so much so that people now forget that it was 100% a marketing scheme.

 

Another great example of this is when the shampoo industry was going through a rough patch around 40 years ago. Guess what they came up with? They added three words to the instructions on the side of the shampoo bottles. They were "Rinse and repeat". Sales skyrocketed and the rest is history. Same idea, different industry.

[FathomFear]

FF - I think you need to read the rest of this thread to get a clearer idea of what is going on here.

 

The rest of the thread is mostly about the weird relationship he has with his mother, whether or not he has money or not, etc. It's not really relevant to the main objection she posed initially.

 

I do agree though that there's way too much baggage at the moment that needs to get ironed out. Even if he gave her a 20k ring, marriage likely wouldn't be a good idea given the other circumstances.

[annie24]

camus--the "rule" came out of a marketing campaign from De Beers. That's it. It's was 100% marketing.

 

This case study is actually analyzed quite closely due to how effective it's been at changing how we think about love and commitment. The marketing program was so successful that we now intertwine it with how we think. It's shaped cultural consciousness so much so that people now forget that it was 100% a marketing scheme.

 

Another great example of this is when the shampoo industry was going through a rough patch around 40 years ago. Guess what they came up with? They added three words to the instructions on the side of the shampoo bottles. They were "Rinse and repeat". Sales skyrocketed and the rest is history. Same idea, different industry.

 

The issue at this point isn't the lack of ring. It's WHY he hasn't bought her the ring. Because he doesn't have the money saved up in his account for it. Why? Because his mother controls all of his money even though he is a well-paid dentist. And he is too afraid to tell his mother he is marrying her and needs to buy her a ring and start planning a wedding. He's 41 and still under his mother's control. He hasn't grown up into an independent adult. He proposed marriage to her without being ready for that step.

[DN]

The rest of the thread is mostly about the weird relationship he has with his mother, whether or not he has money or not, etc. It's not really relevant to the main objection she posed initially.

 

I do agree though that there's way too much baggage at the moment that needs to get ironed out. Even if he gave her a 20k ring, marriage likely wouldn't be a good idea given the other circumstances.

Ordinarily I would agree that making the ring so important is indeed shallow and materialistic, the emphasis placed on rings these days in ridiculous. But I do think it is relevant in this case because it is a symptom of a greater malaise in the relationship and should not be viewed in isolation. This man is clearly not ready for marriage and that is why he is prevaricating on the ring.

 

As I said, I didn't buy a ring before proposing and there are good reasons not to. Firstly, you need to make sure you can return it at no cost if she turns down the proposal and secondly, and this is especially true these days, many women demand the right to choose the ring themselves on the basis of "I have to wear it so I get to choose it". It is a whole other debate as to whether that idea is shallow and less than loving but it is a practical consideration.

 

But in this case, this man needs to demonstrate that he really means to marry the OP and has signally failed to do so - therefore I think this is an exception and he needs to show in every way possible that he means what he says.