When do you draw the line?

[SilverManic]

I'm just wondering. My husband and I have always worked though our relationship issues, that is how marriage works. But why do people think it's ok to tell you to get a divorce? Isn't marriage a commitment to each other to spend the rest of your lives together? Doesn't that mean anything any more? Why do people think it's ok to get a divorce as soon as the crap hits the fan? It's really making me wonder about modern day values and morals and how my daughter is going to grow up.

 

I want my daughter to know marriage is special, not something to throw away when things get a little tough.. I'm just wondering what others think about this as it's really bothering me!

[The_Seeker]

Number draw the line

 

- He cheats on me with another woman.

- He has sex with another woman.

- He beats up me and my kids.

- He is a drug addict and won't change several times.

 

Time to let go for me.

 

That's just me though. I don't know other people.

[SilverManic]

I agree, but my husband isn't beating me or my child, he is not cheating on me and never has! He does not drink smoke or take drugs. Hence why it's bothering me so much!

[The_Seeker]

I agree, but my husband isn't beating me or my child, cheating on me and he does not drink smoke or take drugs. Hence why it's bothering me so much!

 

You lost the passion.

 

He lost the passion.

 

Bring the passion back.

 

How?

 

Go from the beginning how you both fell in love in the first place.

 

In other words, time to take back to a trip of memory lane and appreciating much more.

 

COMMUNICATION COMMUNICATION COMMUNICATION.

[SilverManic]

We do communicate. The passion isn't gone in our relationship, we have a lot of outside stress which does sometimes cause arguments. Anyone would be stressed in the position we are in right now and if they say they wouldn't they are lying. I don't want to go into it in too much detail, but I don't feel the fact that we have stress in our lives and are sitting down and talking about it. Ocationaly getting a little irate because it's stressful is enough to divorce someone over.

[OptomisticGirl]

It's the modern view on marriage and why many marrigaes don't last - crap hits the fan, both parties pull up stake and walk away. Sometimes that IS the best option and sometimes it's not.

[The_Seeker]

We do communicate. The passion isn't gone in our relationship, we have a lot of outside stress which does sometimes cause arguments. Anyone would be stressed in the position we are in right now and if they say they wouldn't they are lying. I don't want to go into it in too much detail, but I don't feel the fact that we have stress in our lives and are sitting down and talking about it. Ocationaly getting a little irate because it's stressful is enough to divorce someone over.

 

I don't mean that type of passion.

 

Passion is about having fun.

 

You need a DATE NIGHT. ;]

[Moontiger]

There are many reason to leave a marriage as Seeker listed. I would add:

 

-emotional abuse

-mental abuse

-not fulfilling your marriage vows (there was a thread recently about a couple who just got married. The husband had only moved a handful of clothing in and spent all his free and kept all his stuff at his moms house!)

-when its best for the kids (ever child expert says its better for a kid to have divorced parents than once that never show affections, can't be in the same room, always fighting etc)

 

Marriage is a lot of work though. Many people today just want a wedding and don't think much beyond that. IMO we should make it harder for people to get married. Require classes where you are put in real-world situation, communication exercises (building furniture is great for this), finance classes, etc.

[ayla]

Are people telling you to get a divorce? Or are you shocked by the modern day percentage of divorce?

 

I think divorce has risen as we are more independent than we have ever been and live longer, too. Women don't need a man to make money and protect them and men don't need a woman to cook clean and raise his kids for him. We can do these things for ourselves. We desire a partner through it all. I think that we grow over the course of time and where at one point we were walking the path together, we find ourselves on different paths and sometimes its better to walk our future paths apart. My ex and I are so much happier apart than we were together.

[Batya33]

I try hard not to judge other peoples' decisions to divorce -certainly I don't assume that somehow their morals or values are inferior to mine and that the divorce is happening because of an unwillingness to work on things. In certain individual situations I am sure that is true but I wouldn't feel good about myself -I'd feel judgmental and arrogant - if I made assumptions that divorce happens because in general people don't value marriage. What I do think is true is that in my parents' generation a lot of people endured abuse in silence because divorce was not a viable option.

[Tanzi]

I'm just wondering. My husband and I have always worked though our relationship issues, that is how marriage works. But why do people think it's ok to tell you to get a divorce? Isn't marriage a commitment to each other to spend the rest of your lives together? Doesn't that mean anything any more? Why do people think it's ok to get a divorce as soon as the crap hits the fan? It's really making me wonder about modern day values and morals and how my daughter is going to grow up.

 

I want my daughter to know marriage is special, not something to throw away when things get a little tough.. I'm just wondering what others think about this as it's really bothering me!

 

There has been a number of threads similar to this recently, ie. people walking away too easily from marriage .... but I'm not sure they do. Sure divorce happens a lot these days but I don't think someone would walk away unless they were sure it was what they really wanted or it was the only option left. I had little option but to divorce my husband seeing as he left me for someone else and it is what he wanted. I think, for the most part however, that people are willing to work on their marriage when their issues CAN be worked on but the crap hits the fan for a reason and, generally, at that stage one party is less willing to work on the marriage than the other. I was left with nothing to work on.

 

Someone said on one such thread that its not so much about walking away from a marriage too easily as it is people heading into marriage too easily in the first place. I happen to agree with this. I have said time and time again on this forum that people seem too eager to rush into things, especially moving in together. Rather than moving in together being a serious commitment it seems its an easy option and before a relationship is allowed time to develop properly marriage is already the next step.

 

Anyhow despite being children of divorced parents I still instill in my daughters at every opportunity the importance of marriage. This is because they have watched their father move in with one girlfriend after another, even getting engaged to one gf after two weeks, and all these relationships have eventually ended. It would be so easy for them to devalue what a serious relationship and subsequently marriage really meant if I were following in their father's footsteps too. Even the relationship he is in now doesn't seem to be working out well with his gf telling my daughter that she knew moving in with him wasn't the right thing to do and that she made the decision too quickly. Although I have been in as many relationships as my ex-husband since we broke up I have kept my bf's at a distance (as in I only see them at weekends and in the beginning I only saw them on the weekends the girls were staying with their dad), I would never dream of moving any of them in until I was sure there was a future and, as wrong as it may seem to some, I have discussed their fathers's behaviour with them as, more often than not, his BUs involve them to a degree too. They are teenagers now (well the older two are) and they can see more clearly now how their father's relationships develop and then crash. I don't agree with how their father conducts his relationships and, when the girls broach the subject, I discuss with them where I think he is going wrong .... in a nice and mature way of course ;-) .... after all I really don't want them to think that moving in with their bf's is just something you do when in a relationship and not something that should be done in a COMMITTED relationship that has a future.

[Batya33]

I also wanted to add that this thread reminds me of the countless times my married friends told me that I was "still" single because I was "too picky" or enjoyed dating too much or one of the many reasons that implied that they were superior to me in maturity or responsibility.

[Tanzi]

I also wanted to add that this thread reminds me of the countless times my married friends told me that I was "still" single because I was "too picky" or enjoyed dating too much or one of the many reasons that implied that they were superior to me in maturity or responsibility.

 

Same ... but on the contrary, I was also told by one particular friend that the reason I was still single was because I only went out with b*stards, which wasn't true at all.

[Tanzi]

Then again perhaps she has a point .... seeing as she is still married to her husband and mine cheated on me and left me twice!!

[Batya33]

Same ... but on the contrary, I was also told by one particular friend that the reason I was still single was because I only went out with b*stards, which wasn't true at all.

 

Yes but often these kind of judgments "this is why I'm not divorced" or "this is why you're still single" can quickly become condescending or too judgmental and often it's because the person sharing these types of insights is insecure and needs to feel superior. Not saying this is the OP's motive - I don't know.

[Tanzi]

Yes but often these kind of judgments "this is why I'm not divorced" or "this is why you're still single" can quickly become condescending or too judgmental and often it's because the person sharing these types of insights is insecure and needs to feel superior. Not saying this is the OP's motive - I don't know.

 

I am sure it isn't but I have to agree that it is easy for someone who is still married to say that other people walk away from marriage too easily. No-one knows what goes on behind closed doors. It isn't easy to walk away from a marriage, whether you are the injured party or not. There are legalities involved, family will become involved and, if there are children, they will undoubtedly be dragged into it too. There can be a lot of tears and heartbreaking decisions to make from both sides. The divorce rate is rising but I still don't believe that divorce is the easy option. It is, however, sometimes the only option.

 

As for my friend, well there was a reason behind her statement. She thought I went for guys based on their looks so it rather meant "they may be goodlooking but they are b*stards" but at the end of the day I was enjoying single life (with some other single friends) and wasn't ready to settle down. Meanwhile she wasn't particularly in a happy relationship anyway. I was just having fun and her comment, or judgement even, really wasn't necessary.

[SilverManic]

I really think there have been some good posts in this thread. There are in my opinion good reasons to get divorced and many of these have been mentioned. My husband and I ahve been under a lot of stress recently, I won't go into it in depth but it has caused us a few major arguments because we are going to have to spend a few months apart for reasons that are not our fault and we are not doing it willingly. I don't think this is reason enough to divorce, but I have been told to by friends. So I was interested on what others thought that was good enough reasons to do so.

 

I do think people walk away to easily but I also think that often people are left with no choice due to severe communication break down, abuse, etc. It's interesting to read others opinions.

[pl3asehelp]

Most of the reasons mentioned so far for divorce I totally agree with, but I agree that it seems people divorce too easily and I think the root of that is that we basically encourage selfishness now above all other values. In the past we might have compromised with our partners over an issue but now it's 'nobody's gonna tell me what to do, nobody controls me, i need to be happy right now, i don't put up with anyones bs, I tell it like it is, blah, blah' - basically the attitude of spoiled kids.

[pl3asehelp]

Were you complaining to your friend when these good looking bastards treated you poorly? If so, I can see why she felt she had a right to comment. You're coming to her repeatedly with a mess (you after being treated poorly) that was entirely avoidable if you listened to her advice. It gets old biting your tongue comforting friends who repeatedly make poor decisions and accuse you of being judgemental when you give them advice that would cause them not to continue getting into the same negative situations.

[Circe]

It's got to be "whatever works for you both" right? As to when you draw the line.

 

I think society would benefit if people let go of the notion that what does or doesn't happen with someone elses marriage (or lack of) will somehow hurt their own. Like people who don't support gay marriage because they feel it's "disrespectful" towards marriage.

 

I have a funny line. Some things which would be a deal breaker for many (like a one night stand) would probably not be a deal breaker for me, while other things (say not keeping up a certain boundary between us and our parents or other family members) would be.

 

We should just focus on what makes us healthy, happy and productive .. forget what other people do or whether we think they get divorced too quickly or not quickly enough.

 

Personally though - if I came to someone for advice over my marriage and my question made it clear that I wanted to FIX a problem - I would get very annoyed if someone responded with "get a divorce". That's clearly not my decision in such a circumstance, so why not respect that?

[Tanzi]

Were you complaining to your friend when these good looking bastards treated you poorly? If so, I can see why she felt she had a right to comment. You're coming to her repeatedly with a mess (you after being treated poorly) that was entirely avoidable if you listened to her advice. It gets old biting your tongue comforting friends who repeatedly make poor decisions and accuse you of being judgemental when you give them advice that would cause them not to continue getting into the same negative situations.

 

Wow, there's a lot of assumptions there. I had no reason to go to her, as I said, they weren't particularly bad guys, just not relationship material but neither was I at the time. I wasn't looking for a relationship .... and like I also said, I was having fun. I was just on a different path than the one she was on. We are talking over 20 years ago so it certainly isn't an issue anymore. In fact it never was. She wasn't someone who's advice I would ask for as she was an extremely judgemental person. I grew up with this particular person often making snide remarks about me, my friends, my family and my bf's. It all went over my head eventually. Batya's post just happened to jog a memory.

[Tanzi]

Actually I remember precisely now when she said it. I know it isn't relevant to the thread but my memory pockets are popping away like mad so I hope you don't mind .......

 

She was trying to set me up with a work colleague of hers whom I had met a couple of times. He was a really nice guy ... quiet, shy, reserved, highly intelligent and extremely witty..... yet I was just not attracted to him. I hadn't realised that he was attracted to me either until my friend told me she had been asked to set us up. I told her that he was indeed a lovely guy but I wasn't attracted to him. I remember her saying something alone the lines of "Well if he asked me out I would say yes. The trouble with you is you go for good-looking guys who all turn out to be b*stards. You need to give the nice guys a chance for a change". I got a right earbashing from her if I remember rightly ... and totally unprovoked! I wasn't aware that the guys I dated were b*stards. Some of them maybe but we were all young at the time and we were still on a learning curve. She had made some rum decisions regarding guys too and, in fact, she was actually single herself at the time she said this and NOT in a relationship as I said above, though I don't think she had been out of the relationship for long (the reason why I specifically remember this now will become clear later). Anyhow I thought that I had better take her advice, seeing as she had gone to such lengths to tell me off and, well, maybe she had a point. So I went on a date with him but I just didn't feel an attraction towards him. I didn't particularly feel that he was attracted to me either and I told my friend this. She said that he was going to call me but that he was just a little shy but if that was really how I felt she would put him off from doing so???? Then she rang me to tell me that she had told him I wasn't interested and was, in fact, seeing someone else. She seemed to do a complete 180 as regards me giving him a chance. I wasn't seeing anyone else and I wasn't entirely comfortable with what she had said to him but I left it alone. Six months later they were dating and 2.5(ish) years after getting together they were married (and I was bridesmaid). I guess she had her own agenda for telling him what she did. I think, after setting us up, she must have realised how much she actually liked him. Incidentally, they are still married, though they are not without their issues, and have been for almost 16 years now. I am divorced after my husband cheated on me twice so, who knows, maybe she did have a point.

 

Just had to get that out there. It's amazing how much we can forget over the years!

[Batya33]

That's a great and interesting story! I don't understand what being a nice person has to do with being good looking -unless nice means passive/weak which often affects how attractive a person looks (including unattractive posture). But that's not "nice". In a way you set them up! I think putting men into categories of "nice" and "bad boy" ends up sabotaging the effort to find a healthy relationship. I do think looking at whether there are patterns in who you (you meaning you or generally) choose can be helpful.

[Tanzi]

That's a great and interesting story! I don't understand what being a nice person has to do with being good looking -unless nice means passive/weak which often affects how attractive a person looks (including unattractive posture). But that's not "nice". In a way you set them up! I think putting men into categories of "nice" and "bad boy" ends up sabotaging the effort to find a healthy relationship. I do think looking at whether there are patterns in who you (you meaning you or generally) choose can be helpful.

 

By "nice" I think she meant how guys treat women but I don't think being a nice person has anything to do with how one looks and I wasn't aware that the guys I dated fell into any kind of category. I was just doing things differently to how she was for a while and it was just how she chose to see my situation (ie. not single through choice). I think it made her feel better about being stuck in an on/off relationship that wasn't making her happy. We were a lot younger then though and I doubt she would think the same now.

[Batya33]

By "nice" I think she meant how guys treat women but I don't think being a nice person has anything to do with how one looks and I wasn't aware that the guys I dated fell into any kind of category. I was just doing things differently to how she was for a while and it was just how she chose to see my situation (ie. not single through choice). I think it made her feel better about being stuck in an on/off relationship that wasn't making her happy. We were a lot younger then though and I doubt she would think the same now.

 

I don't either -you wrote that she seemed to connect the two as in you went for the "good looking" guys instead of the "nice" guys. Friendships can be hard when it comes to talking about dating/relationships but I find friends' perspectives helpful and interesting.