Help ... I discussed marriage, but didn't propose, but she's acting like I did .

[Mercurial Girl]

You both will also be too old to adopt an infant. They do not want to give infants to people over 45 because they want to ensure this child will have parents in 20 years and have parents that will have the energy for them to do physical things. Unless you do a totally private adoption or foreign adoption both of which you maybe refused for too, you are not going to be having a baby with this woman.

 

Not sure why you keep bringing this up. I know many adoptive parents who were in their late 40s/50s when they started the process. One couple adopted a toddler, the other adopted a baby under a year old, and the next fostered for years before adopting a little girl I think around 6 years old at the time, can't remember.

 

ETA: I find it a bit strange that I know so many adoptive parents at all. I'm not even a people person

[bob333]

Thanks Rose, that sounds encouraging, I think if there was no question over her fertility I wouldn't think twice, yes I'd prefer not to have to marry - because thats just the way I am - but for visa reasons I'd have to do it.

 

She's a lovely girl I've know a while - who I love (and not in that mad lust full way either !).

 

I feel at such a fork in the road with her though, and for me, if we get together and we cant conceive - then I may just become complacent and the opportunity for me to make it happen to have a family will pass me (ie us separate and me find a younger woman), guess I'd still be happy with her without children, we seem to work well as just a couple. Wonder how regretful I'd feel.

 

Ms Darcy - semantics eh - An 'assumption' is thinking something to be true, without full knowledge of the facts. When I said it, I put up the idea of us getting together and possibly having a family as food for thought, not a 'presumption'. At the time I didn't know the facts regarding late fertility in a woman - I had an assumption about it - which we both would have shared, so in view of what had been suggested and then having knowledge of the facts (she is at liberty to find the facts - as I have done) I think it wrong she go off telling all her friends, announcing on facebook she's getting married to me and sending me pictures of expensive diamond wedding rings with a view to having children ... in fact the more I think about it the more I really do need to think rationally ... should I run for the hills screaming LOL !

If a relationshiop doesn't work out, and I'd really tried to make it work, then yes I would want out ... sadly I've found that with women once the glue of all that 'emotion' goes they can become quite vengefull and hatefull towards the man they are in a relationship with, I've then experienced that woman use other men against me - very hurtful, I'm never having that agtain. So I'm just doing a bit of self preservation, women do it just as much, just in a different way.

 

Its fascinating this, thinking through your thoughts on paper, writing what you feel about events, its less coloured by emotion.

[Silverbirch]

Bob,

No matter how nice this woman is and how much you want children, I'm getting very strong vibes she isn't right for you. I think you know that too. I don't think there is going to be an easy way to handle this, but eventually you will have to tell her.

[Silverbirch]

Bob,

No matter how nice this woman is and how much you want children, I'm getting very strong vibes she isn't right for you. I think you know that too. I don't think there is going to be an easy way to handle this, but eventually you will have to tell her.

[trolleycar]

Bob When I first read your post I was thinking that you would marry the gal but do to the fact of her age of 46 she may not be able to have a child.

But the more I read on you really just want to have a gal when you want one and when you want to do your own thing you do not want her.

Your talk about marriage and kids, marriage visa's was just a lot talk and you do not care one Witt about her and only about your self.

Words have meanings. No matter how you try to handle what you have said to her, you are going to hurt her.

She must have feeling for you. I thing you now have put your foot in your month . And I can see not how your going to remove your foot with out hurting she.

To me when I start talk to my Girl friend about marriage and Children and Marriage visa's. I would be very close to ask her would she marry me.

And when I asked my girl would she marry me I ask her because I want to spend the rest of my life with her. and if she could bare Children for me.

I want to marry my girl to be with her. I may seem very selfish but I want my girl friend to spend her life loving me and me loving her.

I know to many couples have had kids and the kids have been the reason the marriage ended.

Lets face it women are preprogramed to want to be mothers and to care for the kids. Where man want to be the main thing in the wife thinking.

And Bob seems the only one he care about to me.

[bob333]

Can I ask trolleycar are you married ?

 

Well I used to believe in 'the one' and undying love, but experience tells me that is just a falacy, I really dont know why everyone is so unreal about that - maybe the lucky one or two find it, but for the majority - it is just two people who share some similarities and think they can live the falacy, but when that all starts to unravel - it can turn nasty, or just unrewarding, I would not like to be stuck in something like that, I think most would agree.

 

Yes, I am thinking about myself, dont see anything wrong with that, but dont think I'm not aware of the hurt that one can feel when rejected - but the reality of this situation is - we hadn't seen each other for two years, she came for a two week holiday, and I asked her what did she think of marraige and children, I never said 'I will marry you' - she goes back home then starts telling all her mates she's getting married and emigrating, and I just couldn't bear to rain on her parade as I do really like and care for her - I think your very wrong trolleycar to assume otherwise.

 

Maybe I am wanting to live the falacy thinking it would be alright, after all who wouldn't want to find a perfect match - but some people can blow hot and cold, I probably do.

 

I would say 95% of the couples I know have had kids and not separated, 15/20 years later, I would wish for that, but I'm not sure what happens now - it will be interesting to see, I think we'll see a few of the boys being let off soon LOL.

 

Women are programmed to do what they have to do, and men are programmed to do what they have to do, somehow - in our modern consumerist society we have glorified and proped up this false idea of 'holy matrimony' as the ideal, I dont think you can apply that to all people, scrape all that c**p away and underneath it we all mostly still want to couple and be secure, and maybe enjoy the fruits of a family, why impose a false contract on it. In fact I think in this modern age of Facebook, IM and the Internet - the shinanigans of some make all the respectability we like to think exists a joke.

[Ms Darcy]

The more you talk, the less you are fixing the issue. The fact is, you know you aren't going to marry her and you are being dishonest in not letting her know what is going on. Just fix the issue - break up and move on.

[Capricorn3]

I want a GF, - just dont feel the need to marry.

Then you need to tell HER that. Be honest and upfront and tell her you don't want to marry her, or anyone else. Having said that, the more I read, the more I don't think she's the right one for you. I say end it and find someone who matches your needs and who also doesn't want marriage.

 

Time to be honest with your lady - she needs to know the truth.

[bob333]

You keep making out I have been dishonest - I have not said to her 'lets get married' - please re-read the thread title, I put it up for us, as friends to discuss, to see not just how she felt about it, but also how I feel about it, to explore how we both feel about getting married, I never said 'LETS GET MARRIED' - in fact this forum is very good - its making me work out, if in fact, if I do want to get married. IF she wants to go off and tell all her mates she's getting married then thats her look out, sorry.

 

I do want us to be together, and for that to happen I need to marry her (for her to get a visa and come live with me), but I personally do not want to be married, think what ever you want to from that, we would need to be married for 2 1/2 years for her to get her residency, I would draw up a prenuptial agreement - then i would file for divorce, and for us to then live as a childless couple.

 

Here in the UK their is an epidemic of divorces, it is rife - the statistics tell us marraige for some is a flawed institution, their seems a complete break down of morals and respect for the other party when divorce papers and lawyers kick into gear, but our consumerist culture glosses over this important factor, and wows couples with an ideal, that really doesn't exist.

 

I admit that many men are neanderthals and quite immature, unfullfilling in many ways - they take their partners for granted, and ironically it is the women leaving these men, not the other way around, the women are the ones wanting the freedom to go off and upgrade, (these men once cut off regret their behaviour - but I do wonder if the men themselves ever wanted to be married in the first place - I think society need to look at mans biology and ask what happens ot that when you impose an institution on him), I like to think I am not one of these men - I am a caring thoughtfull man, and I think that bears true with my peer group - of whom none have divorced their wives - we are good partner material, I just cant see the reason to put a contract (which is actually someone elses) on a relationship I am involved in.

Many of these divorced women (and I know a few) now actually shun marraige, they still want a close loving relationship (like me) but

 

On one of the first dates we went on all those years ago - I did express my disdain for the institution for marraige.

 

During the two years we were apart I met an unstable woman who run off with another man - I'm still getting over that a year and a half later, I wanted to marry her when it happened, but I've come to realise that my deisre there was one born out of the crazy mad fear induced love - which wasn't in fact love.

I now know I feel love for my present GF though, but I'm probably quite scared by what has happened to me, wary of getting my heart broken again.

The ex who run off with another man I feel now regrets doing that, she knows I was a quality man, but she screwed me over - following her irrational emotions, being led off by some silver tongued man, she still send sme emails telling me she misses me, but I will not have her back, a person who runs off with another is not worth my time of day, I have good morals and good standards.

 

I hope that puts a few things in prespective, but I guess some will just be blinkered - a lot of Germans fought a war thinking they were right, but we now know it was a corrupt regime.

[lavenderdove]

OK, it's insane to marry someone when you don't really want to marry... you've got the wrong girl if you don't want to marry and she really does. And if she got carried away and misunderstood you, then it is your job to set her straight, that you didn't mean it as a proposal, you were just thinking/talking about the possibilities, and now that you've thought about it more, you've decided that marriage is not something you really believe in or want to do.

 

You're railing against marriage in your posts, yet you still haven't told this woman you don't want it or believe in it and she's busily planning a life that won't ever exist. So the longer you let this go on, the crueler it is in the end. Send her an email, phone her, whatever it takes to tell her that you're sorry, but you've thought about it more and don't want to marry, and she jumped to conclusions and you didn't know quite how to tell her that because you didn't want to hurt her, but the truth is that you can't marry her.

 

Doesn't really matter what was said/done/felt in the past, you need to be truthful with her now and tell her the more you think about it, the less you are willing to do it, so time to call it off. If she can't/won't just live with you rather than marry you, then it is time to set her free to find someone who does want to marry, and time for you to find a woman who is happy with just a live-in relationship. Just be honest with whomever you meet from the start and let them know you are looking for a long-term relationship, but don't believe in marriage. That way you won't get in this situation again.

[bob333]

Can we simply not remove the word marriage from everything, this whole thread seems to have revolved about it either being or not being, surely the relationship is more important - I do genuinely believe we share something good - and am saddened by how much people have lambasted me, imposing what you think about marraige and not realising that two people may share something (at least that is what I hope for - and its not all about marriage), lets imagine I'd never discussed marriage ... we've been on and off for 6 years, and the last two years split and went off with other partners, ironically both of those partners run off with someone else, can you believe that - and hence we have simply come back together - what will be will be as they say.

 

But we did have a conversation which has been misinterpreted and I should have nipped it in the bud, but as soon as I discovered she was broadcasting to her world she was getting married - I lost a very close family member - and have been in grief since - I have been surrounded with a lot of saddness - and dealing with all the things a persons death entails - which at the present moment makes this persons demands a trivial matter in view of someones death. Sorry, but my life just has had more serious matters to deal with - than quashing someones desire for glittering wedding rings and a fantasy wedding.

 

Thinking about it, she really should understand how I feel and be showing me compassion and not pressing for dates and the like - what is she thinking.

 

Yes this forum does make one realise the reality of matters, and not get too involved in emotion.

[lavenderdove]

Look, we can debate the value of marriage or not forever on this board, but the person you have to convince one way or another is your GF! It's easy to intellectualize and debate a subject such as the value of marriage, but it is a moot point if the real issue is you should be talking with your GF and expressing these feelings to her...

 

I'm really sorry if you lost a family member, but you do need to deal with what is happening with your GF now. You said she expects a wedding this summer which is only a couple months away. Nothing is worse than getting jilted on the church steps, so the sooner you nip this in the bud the less the devastation she will feel, and the less money she'll have wasted planning the wedding.

 

Her feelings ARE a serious matter, and if you intend to jilt her and not marry, then you need to tell her NOW rather than later. This isn't about just a fantasy wedding, it is about her planning her whole future around you and spending time and money building her life around that idea, while you let this go on and on because you are squeamish about telling her. So the sooner you tell her that you have no intention of going thru with it, the kinder it will be. There is no easy way to do it, but you will have to do it eventually unless you do intend to go thru with it.

[bob333]

I would never jilt anyone on the church steps, unless i was in a movie.

 

Thats right, lets not debate marriage - that really is not the issue here, I am just so over loaded with emotions going on in my life and feel really put upon actually - she knows I'm a nice guy and dont like upsets - and I wonder if she thinks she can put some pressure on I will crack and just go along with it - it actually happened to a friend of mine, and he's a bit unhappy now (he's turned into one of those neandethal men I described earlier) - his wife nagged and shagged him till he just gave in at a moment of weakness, he just constantly complains about everything, its seems to have brought him stress - not happiness.

 

No, the more I think about it the more insensed I feel about my GF running away with things at a moment like this - its quite out of order actually.

 

By the way, she is planning to move here towards the end of the year and us get married 6 months after that, not sure where you got the impression it was this summer.

 

Yes, I think I will go back to her and tell her I'm still dealing with grief with myself and my direct family, the death of a close person is a terrible thing to have to deal with, I will tell her she has allowed herslef to run away with things, she misinterpreted what I said and I cant commit to anything at the moment, I just dont have the mental capacity to deal with any of that - I feel quite sad, and she is fizzing on a fantasy marraige thing.

 

I never said anything to bring this to my door, I really dont want to lose a friend, that was never my intention - but yes thinking about it - maybe she has tried to rail road things with me, I feel that is most unfair to impose that upon me at the present time.

 

I will take a break and go deal with my loss, it is all stress I could do with out right now.

 

I dont think my GF really understands how I feel deep down, she is the one being selfish.

 

I could do with a hug and some closeness right now, be with someone who cares - not have all this imposed upon me.

[lavenderdove]

>>I think I will go back to her and tell her I'm still dealing with grief with myself and my direct family, the death of a close person is a terrible thing to have to deal with, I will tell her I cant commit to anything at the moment, I just dont have the mental capacity to deal with any of that - I feel quite sad

 

This is a good thing to say, just make sure you make it clear that the wedding is off and not just postponed... if she got carried away just discussing the potential of marriage, if you are not really clear that the wedding is off, she may just keep planning it, but for a later date. Say you can't commit to anything, not that you can't commit 'at the moment' or she'll just think that means a postponement and not stopping the marriage.

 

I think too that you shouldn't waste time being angry that she got carried away... that was her interpretation of it, and altho she jumped to conclusions, you didn't straighten her out... miscommunications happen all the time, and you need to jump right in and straighten it out rather than being upset that the communication went awry... it happens, and the only way to fix it is to communicate more and be honest about what you are thinking/feeling. And if you lose the friendship, then that is too bad, but it is a far preferable outcome to being shackled to someone you never wanted to marry to begin with. So you pay in a little pain to set her straight, or in years of pain being in a marriage you didn't want to begin with.

 

Also, regarding her not understanding how you feel deep down, this is a common problem, but you need to recognize that nobody is a mind reader, and if you don't openly speak up and tell her how you feel, you can't blame her for not knowing how you feel. So you do need to speak up, and speak very clearly until she repeats back that she understands exactly what you said and how you feel. There was obviously a large miscommunication over this, and the only way out of that miscommunication is to communicate very clearly and bluntly until you are sure she knows and accepts the wedding is off and she stops making plans for it.

[bob333]

There was no wedding date even discussed, let alone a wedding, so now you mention it, how out of order to start posting pictures of wedding rings on Facebook, days later I find my close family member dead in bed, the shock of it ... I just want to run away from it all, I can tell she's angsty about things, but surely thats not a priority right now in my life - I have other matters to deal with of greater importance.

 

I have a horrible feeling she has been very very selfish, to jostle for position with my emotions regarding my grief, and her childlike desire for a fairy cake wedding, would you not ease off a bit ?

 

I wont say never to marriage with her, thats why I in fact raised it for discussion in the first place, but events have eclipsed things since that time and I need to deal with my loss - ironically I could do with us being together right now, not have her huff off being all disappointed - and cutting me out which she always seems to do when she doesn't get her way - I find that quite painful, so you can understand me not wanting to deal with all this right now.

Maybe I will feel different when the dust has settled, but its very difficult in the family at the moment, I'm going to say I cant think about commitment at the moment, if she wants to interpret that as postponement or a total withdrawal thats up to her (I shouldn't be imposed upon like this - withdraw from what - I never put myself in there in the first place - she did that to herself, runnning away with fantasy thoughts).

 

I dont blame her for not knowing how I feel, just that she should have a little sensitivity towards current matters, I've really done nothing to encourage this situation - she's let it all run away in her head. If she stopped to think for a moment, maybe she'd understand - but I get the feeling she will take umbrage and just add to my already stressed state.

[Ms Darcy]

You are being silly not telling her how you feel. You seem afraid to lose her, which you probably would if you told her the truth.

[SarahRose]

I have read the entire thread and just have a little to ad.

 

No you didn't specifically ask her to marry you but you do know that she thinks she is marrying you and moving to your country. That is what she believes. And you know this.

 

There is nothing wrong with you not wanting to get married. Nothing at all.

 

There is something wrong with lying by omission which is what you are doing.

 

She came over there in December. It is now May! You have let her believe that all this is going to happen.

 

I am sure when she talks to you she mentions things about the wedding and moving and visas and all that. What do you say to her when she mentions moving and the wedding?

 

I know you say you are a nice guy but leading someone on for months because you are too afraid to set things straight is not being a nice guy at all.

 

It is not like she is moving to another city for you either. She is moving to another country.

 

She really does have the right to know where you stand so she can make decisions about her life.

 

So really all you can do is stop making excuses and justifying your behavior out of fear and just man up and tell her the truth.