Help ... I discussed marriage, but didn't propose, but she's acting like I did .

[bob333]

I hope this is the right section to ask this rather dumb question.

 

Met a girl 6 years ago, we've been on and off over that time, she lives in another country, and was initally here for 12 months when I met her and we went out, we've just 'holidayed' for a few weeks at Xmas and summer time, breaking up on a few occassions.

 

This Xmas she came over, I hadn't seen her for two years(we'd broken up), in that time I had a horrendous ordeal with a mad woman (we had a relationship) who caused me a lot of stress and a broken heart.

 

I had been single for the last 12 months, with the 'mad' ex playing with my head via email during this time (making me quite sad).

 

So when my other ex turned up from abroad for a 2 week break at Xmas, it was like a breath of fresh air, and I saw quite a few things in her I'd not seen before (although they must have been there all along).

 

The day before she left to go back I asked her what she thought of marraige and children and we discussed the possibility of her moving here on a marraige visa and having a family. I did emphasise that they were just thoughts and we should explore that more when she gets back home.

 

So since being back home we have chatted on Skype, she's told her mum she's emigrating to marry me, started proceedings to get divorved (she's been separated 10 years), and posted pictures on facebook of wedding rings and made comments about which ones she likes.

 

The rub is, since she's gone back i've realised she maybe too old to have children, she is almost 46.

 

SO, HELP !!! I would marry her, I've come to realise we'd be good together, but I dont know if I want to sacrifice my desire to have children, I dont think I want to adopt. I dont like hurting or upsetting people, but she's seems to have her heart set now, but I only put it up for discussion.

I wish I hadn't have done that now, having thought about the age issue.

As soon as she got back she booked a flight to come back in the summer, which is great, I'd really like to see her, but I feel if I put a spanner in the works (of her mind) she'll be really upset, possibly she'll not come, which I can accept, sadly.

I'm not sure I might lose a good friend and lover over a quick conversation we had, she would feel terribly rejected.

 

So is there any gentle way of dealing with this.

 

I wish I'd not let time slip by and us start a family a bit earlier

[quantumst8]

I recommend marrying her. The world is already overpopulated and having more kids just adds to the problem. Adopting is far better.

[sara-pezzini]

i think this is not fair to her, i would assume the same, and then not want to marry her, only because she is too old doesn't sound like you loved her in the first place, you are just looking for someone who is young enough to have kids.....if you love this woman and would want to marry there are other ways to have a baby, adoption is just one, surrogate for instance........but if you are looking for a suitable woman, young enough to have a child, you might just end up looking for a long time and meanwhile let love pass you by......so you have to decide how important love is or a baby of your own.....which with a surrogate it still would be......but this is not fair to this woman imo, i would feel played if i were her

[Gracelove]

Hey There!

 

Things did move a little quickly it seems. I totally understand because I've been in situations where things have moved rather quickly. I think that you should have a discussion with her right now. If it's meant to be, she'll understand, and there is no harm in taking things slowly.

 

Yes, it's exciting to be romantic, and make plans for the future on the spur of a moment, however, it isn't really practical.

 

Just tell her how you feel.

 

Oh, but before I forget, when you're talking to her, don't mention the whole I-may-not-want-you-because-you're-probably-too-old-to-have-children thing. That won't go over well at allllllllll. Women are sensitive about that kind of thing. Wait before you have that discussion. And get advice from multiple women on how to broach that conversation.

[Saffron_]

This doesn't sound so good. Am I right in understanding that this woman only came back into your life very recently and already you're talking about marriage? I remember your post on another thread Bob and I just wanna ask, doesn't this woman realise herself that's she's almost certainly too old to have children? I mean, women tend to be more self aware when it comes to their fertility. You really have to make the decision whether or not you want to a) be with this woman and accept not having kids b) be with this woman and try to have kids some other way (egg donation for example) or c) let this woman go so you can find someone who can have kids. Not an easy decision but one should have made before even mentioning marriage and children to her.

[bob333]

Hey Gracelove, umm, I've gone from putting it up for discussion with her - to her starting to plan things without me proposing first.

 

I'm feeling stressed, I know I've got to broach it, point taken about mentioning the age thing, I want to tell her that I think I want to have children and that we cant do that together, I dont want to do the surrogate thing or adopt. I feel very upset about it, she'd make a great mum

This seems all wrong, I've known her long enough, and I now feel ready to make a family, she feels the same.

 

Sara - yes your right, I could be waiting a long time, thats a difficult choice to have to take.

 

Saffron, it was done in a haze of romance - in fact I still feel that way, I could sacrifice having children, but it seems such a final step to say that, I wished we were 5 years younger

 

So I guess I need to hear other womens opinions on how to have that converstaion without being a clutz and hurting some one.

[Saffron_]

Bob, is there no way you and she would consider surrogacy? It's very expensive but that way you two could stay together, raise a child together and you'd be a biological father.

[arwen]

I think the desire to have children is a very strong factor in a relationship. That is, if one of the two people does not want it, and the other does, this is a major problem. The world's population is not exactly a reason to not have children (especially not in a country with lots of elderly - we call that 'a population going gray'), nor does it stop the personal (and biological) desire to have children.

 

I would discuss this with her. As far as I can tell from your message, SHE is not under the impression that she can't have children. Her age is certainly not a positive thing in this regard, not only concerning decreasing fertility, but also with respect to higher risks for congenital disorders (like Down syndrome) and miscarriages. It seems to me that you have a good connection to her, why not open up the conversation? She is a woman, surely she is aware of the age factor in this issue. I don't know if there are alternatives outside adoption. They would always be far-reaching, i.e. big steps to take (surrogate moms, donation of eggs, that kind of thing).

 

You also met her when she was already 40... did it not occur to you before that time was running out for her?

 

Btw, my father is the youngest of 7 and my grams had him when she was 45, right after WWII. A big healthy baby, while she was relatively old and worn out by the war and hunger winter. Miracles do happen.

[Seraphim]

She has about .5 % chance of getting pregnant each month at her age.I saw a show on surrogacy here in my own country and I believe what they said was it can cost up to $100,000. You both will also be too old to adopt an infant. They do not want to give infants to people over 45 because they want to ensure this child will have parents in 20 years and have parents that will have the energy for them to do physical things. Unless you do a totally private adoption or foreign adoption both of which you maybe refused for too, you are not going to be having a baby with this woman.

[Ms Darcy]

I think if you made it clear that these were just thoughts you need to talk to her asap to clear up her misunderstanding. It's not fair to let her continue to think she's engaged.

[Fudgie]

I think you need to be honest and straightforward with her - ASAP! This woman is making plans to EMIGRATE for you. If you don't want to marry her, you have the obligation of telling her as soon as possible so she doesn't go through any more embarrassment or expense on her part. Please, I know it's hard, but you need to talk to her.

 

If biological kids are on your mind, I can pretty much promise you if you were to stay with this woman, it's not gonna happen. There's a very slim chance but 46? No. By the time you guys would actually marry, get through immigrations, and settle down to start HAVING kids, she will likely be 47-48 at the time. She probably is more excited with the idea of marrying you and may not have kids on her mind (not many women her age want kids at that age) and it would be a high risk pregnancy regardless. Not going to happen.

 

And Vic is right - over 45 = no infant adoption, and that's at the state level. Private adoption agencies tend to be even more strict (with age and high income requirements).

[Silverbirch]

LOL, my grandmother had a child at 49!!! After that birth, she required a hysterectomy so thankfully there were no more children after 9.

 

I know this is blunt, but if she is 46, thinking you are likely her age or older. Whilst she might be biologically "too old" for children, are you sure you are "young enough"? There's a lot to take into consideration besides the biological aspect. I tried to have a second child until I was around 40. Now I see that not being able to have a child was a blessing in disguise, and that I am subsequently NOT, at this point in my life, bringing up a child who wouldn't even be in highschool. That goes for men as well as women.

 

I know there are exceptions, but I know a couple of women who were with older men, and as times passed, there are often relationship difficulties when one partner is quite a lot older than the other, more so when there are children. But then, there are exceptions.

[lady00]

Please tell her immediately and then do some soul searhing to figure out why you would reunite with someone with whom you have a glaring incompatibility. If you want something and you think she is not compatible for whatever reason (be it children or something else) why would you start dating her again? I realize feelings aren't rational but you do get to choose whether it makes sense to act on them and you will save yourself and others a whole lot of heartache in the future by doing that.

[abitbroken]

I think that if someone was talking marriage visas, they wanted to marry me. A better tactic would be to talk about your future goals - does she see herself marrying again someday? Does she think she wants to adopt kids someday? The question is - do you love her. Aside from the kid thing, would you want to be with her for the rest of her life - if the answer is "yes", then would you consider adoption? An adopted child is no less "yours". It is obvious at 46 it is unlikely she will give borth. Some women very well can, but to some its dangerous.

 

I think the bigger question would be why you would be dating a woman who was still married? The only reason perhaps is if she was seperated for 10 years and she and her ex agreed to stay legally married though living apart and having moved on because divorced women are shunned and things would be very bad for her in that country. But outside of that, why would you do anything?

 

I would be more inclined to see if she can come to your country on her own merits (employment, family ties, etc.) to continue dating first. Since she cannot have children, or its really slim, there is no rush on that end.

 

I would tell her "when i talked about marriage visas, i want you to know that i was not proposing to you at that time, I was just thinking and wondering. I think there is a lot we have to discuss before that could be considered." and bring up the kids issue, etc.

 

Also, how old are you? If you are 30, I can see where you could easily meet someone who was of child bearing age. If you are her age, then i don't think you should penalize her for not biologically being able to safely have kids. You can't penalize her for what you didn't do in life.

[abitbroken]

And Vic is right - over 45 = no infant adoption, and that's at the state level. Private adoption agencies tend to be even more strict (with age and high income requirements).

 

If the father is younger than that, they are not going to reject a couple where one is 46 if the other parent is younger (i don't know his age). I knew a couple who were 47 and 37 who adopted an infant with no trouble at all. The first child was an infant placed in their arms at 3 weeks old and the second child was older at the age of adoption, but only a year different in age than the first child. But there are plenty of young children, age 10 months to four that need a good home also that a couple who were 46 could adopt.

 

I would worry more about if this woman is "the one" or not at this point.

[quantumst8]

I always liked this scene:

 

JAMIE: This isn't working. I reach out for you and you're not there. And I'm certainly not there for you.

 

PAUL: Well, you've been working—

 

JAMIE: yes, I've been working and you've been working. And we're killing ourselves, and saving and planning, and for what? For this baby that's not coming. It's almost a year we've been trying. It's not happening.

 

PAUL: Is that my fault?

 

JAMIE: No, it's not! God! What is wrong with you? It's like you're a child.

 

PAUL: Thank you.

 

JAMIE: Is that what you think I said?

 

PAUL: Well, the way you said it—

 

JAMIE: I'm not saying that!

 

PAUL: Okay. All right. Fine. All right. It's just, you know, it's not something that makes me feel particularly swell. You know, I'm not exactly doing my job in that department.

 

JAMIE: You were tested. You're fine.

 

PAUL: So were you.

 

JAMIE: Yeah, but come on.

 

PAUL: What?

 

JAMIE: Let's stop kidding ourselves. If there's something wrong, it's me.

 

PAUL: No. No.

 

JAMIE: Look, the truth is, you can always have kids, whereas I—

 

PAUL: what does that mean?

 

JAMIE: It means what it means. You can have kids. So if I can't, then, fine. All right, fine. You'll move on.

 

PAUL: Move on?

 

JAMIE: Yes, you'll leave, you'll figure something—

 

PAUL: leave?

 

JAMIE: You could.

 

PAUL: Is that what you think?

 

JAMIE: I don't know. If I was in your place, it was my one chance to put a child on this earth—

 

PAUL: well, then, shame on you! Shame on you if that's what you think of me, that I would leave you.

 

JAMIE: I'm not saying you will.

 

PAUL: No, but if I do, in case I do, you go find another guy, and why don't you leave me first?

 

JAMIE: Maybe.

 

PAUL: How can you doubt my love for you?

 

JAMIE: Because I do.

 

PAUL: Well, then, you know what? You will never get it.

 

JAMIE: What?

 

PAUL: You just-- if you can't have kids, I can't have kids. Whatever happens to you, happens to me. Whatever happens, happens to us. Do you not get that by now?

[bob333]

Thanks for all your replies.

Well - she seems set on having kids herself, so I dont know, its a big gamble.

I think I've come to the conclusion that the glistening prize of the 'right one' has turned out to be a falacy, its just another sack of blood and bones, if we get along, enjoy a moment and a laugh every so often without pulling each others hair out then thats a blessing. Once you've had sex 20 or so times your then left with just the person, and all the 'love' and idealisation you had disappears - your just left with living, which is what we are here to do.

I've never been the marrying type deep down, and always struggled with the concept of being 'contracted' into a life long partnership - people change - circumstances change, I dont want to slip into the numbness of comfortability - or do I want to feel confined. Saying all that I'm not an island, I need normal things like anybody does and like the security of a manogamous relationship.

 

A few of my mates have partners and families without marrying, they seem to have managed it.

 

Just dont know what to do, its really friggin stressing me, I wish she could just come and live under my wing without all the complications.

She is coming to me with nothing - I have a fair bit of money, here you get taken to the cleaners if you divorce.

 

I know I'd like to find a partner, and I think I have found one, I know I 'love' her - if I can use such an over blown expression, I just want to live life without horrendous divorce and court actions, arguments, unfaithfulness - all the things so many couples seem to go through. Keep it simple I've always tried to say.

[Batya33]

I had this happen to me once where the guy practically proposed (because we had just gotten back together and he was overwhelmed with emotion I guess) and the next day he took it back (not because of my age though). Difference was I never considered anything less than an official proposal to mean much so while I was probably too excited I was able to keep it in check. It hurt a lot regardless but I'm glad he told me so that I could move on (I didn't for a long time -we went back and forth -but that's another story). Do not tell her it's because of her age - a white lie is called for in this situation to save her feelings.

[Batya33]

If you don't want to get married to the mother of your child then are you saying that you want the option of walking away more easily than if you were married? Is that fair to the child do you think? A dear friend of mine who has a child with her boyfriend is just as committed to him as if they were married (he wants marriage more than she does) -and I suspect that's the case with many couples who are not married and have children- their reasons for not being married are not so they can walk away more easily if "things change". It's different if you don't have children -then you're just affecting another adult's life -an adult who agreed to this type of arrangement. The child doesn't choose to be here much less be in an unstable situation.

[Snny]

I've never been the marrying type deep down, and always struggled with the concept of being 'contracted' into a life long partnership - people change - circumstances change, I dont want to slip into the numbness of comfortability - or do I want to feel confined.

Then you need to make that message absolutely clear to her now before she accuses you of misleading her. That you are unsure with the idea of marriage, not ready for it, and her reaction on publicizing it to her friends and family over the internet is pushing you away. When she starts posting pics about wedding rings and asks for her friends and family's input, then it's going to be harder to break the news later than now.

[bob333]

* * * * * * * * * * * * !!!

How did all this happen, I just asked her what did she think of marriage and children, somehow she's fizzed into life - and I've been too poilte to rain on her parade - and say wow slow down, she just seemed so happy, why dampen anyones spirits.

When we first met I told her I never thought marraige was for me, I'm pretty normal in all respects and make a good long term partner - I just cant get my head around being contracted to being together, its like friendship - you cant force to create a friendship - it to me seems false.

To be honest I've just got my head around not feeling hurt or pain from a previous relationship that ended a year and a half ago. I want to take a breather and just live a simple life, a close family member just passed away, so I'm looking after my mum and dad who are still very upset.

I'd love a relationship and maybe have a kid, but without any complications or complexities.

My parents had a nasty divorce and I guess its just put me off. And my last partner turned from a loving woman to a vision of hell spitting venom and sticking pins in a voodoo doll of me - its just left me a bit shell shocked I feel.

The desire for a bit of peace and calm for the moment is all I can handle.

[lavenderdove]

OK, approach this rationally.

 

First, if you have a bit of money, then you can probably pursue the surrogacy route. And at 46, her having a baby on her own may be a moot point. She needs to go to the doctor so see if she is still ovulating or even has any viable eggs left, otherwise your life will be a roller coaster or trying to impregnate her and disappointment every month when it doesn't happen. People CAN get pregnant at 46 but the odds are miniscule to next to non-existent at best and usually require a huge amount of money spent on fertility drugs to make it happen in those rare few who do.

 

So start talking to her RATIONALLY and you are not doing her any favors letting her fantasize and get excited about a pregnancy that most likely will never happen.

 

But you CAN pursue a surrogate. Start doing research in your area on what that costs. You can also start research on adoption if you are willing to do it.

 

But if you really want kids and you are not going to be able to afford a surrogate or are not a candidate for adoption (for whatever reason) then don't let this go on any longer and just nip it in the bud. There is no way this is NOT going to hurt her so you have to just man up and do it if you really can't live with the fact that you are marrying a woman with next to no chance of producing a child with her naturally.

 

And you need to be HONEST with your partner about everything, this as well as anything else. You shouldn't consider marrying someone who you can't talk to openly and honestly and work thru things like this. If you genuinely can't go thru with it, then the sooner the better because summer is getting close and you don't want to break it off with her at the last minute after she's made all these plans to move.

 

Sadly, you most likely will lose the friendship if you do break it off... it was really short sighted of you to not think this through first, however, the best thing you can do if you genuinely don't want to marry her is be honest and let the chips fall where they may. It would be worse to marry her then be miserable or hold it against her if she doesn't give birth... Don't marry her unless you are sure that you will be happy and stay with her whether she has a child or not.

[bob333]

Thanks for your reply.

 

Sadly my money is tied up in property, but I'm worried if things didn't work out she'd get half of it, I experienced a lot of hardship in life to get it.

 

I'm on the verge of just throwing the towel in TBH, there are so many things in life I want to do, but they all seem so difficult, maybe I should just go off and be single, the odd GF here and there, I'm a good looking chap, so no bother there.

 

Just be nice to settle down with one and start a family.

 

I have been very rational - I've gone off, consulted and asked some direct questions, she's the one who's run away with a fantasy - deep down though she must know, she's not stupid, she must know the odds are against her. Just seems so sad for her though.

 

I would feel very sad to lose such a great friend though I definitely have a spark for her, she appears to feel the same, but sadly I've learnt with some women that they can blow hot and cold.

 

Maybe I should start another thread and ask if its normal for a bloke to have cold feet when the woman gets like this.

 

Why why why does every relationship I have always end with me feeling enclosed after the woman pressures me for marraige, I want a GF, I remain committed throught out - just dont feel the need to marry.

[Juliette ne pas]

The child issue: I'm 46 I'm still fertile and able to bear a healthy child, my Mother was 41, my Grandmother 45. I think that even if the young woman was 30, she still might not be able to bear a child.

The proposal issue: Sadly, she jumped to conclusions, you spoke about it, you didn't commit. Please, think this through, if you really love her, you will want her baby or not. It is better to spend your life with someone you love than to allow your biological clock to dictate your like. I did that with disasterious results. I was gung ho about getting married, my husband followed in blindly, he never told me his concerns or that he was unsure about a commitment. 23yrs and four children later, he still isn't sure and is only partially commited to me. His children are his life, he loves them beyond compare, Me, not so much, I am my children's mother, he loves me for that. Does he love me past that? I can not answer. I am writing this not to hurt or demean you, but in hopes that by shedding light on my own situaton it may hopefully help you with yours. If not, I was able to vent free of charge : ) I wish you the best, good luck. Rosel

[Ms Darcy]

One can blame her for jumping to conclusions but if you don't correct assumptions, then you are equally at fault.

 

For the various reasons you have mentioned, you don't want marriage. You want a baby mama and an out in case the relationship doesn't work out. OK. Just break up with this girl and tell other women this upfront. It's pretty straightforward.