Why does he always want to bolt??

[Edmund Exley]

I never said he was justified... so i dont know why anyone would say that...

 

 

I at no time accused you of saying that. In fact I wasnt commenting in response to you at all. I was simply adding my own comments. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

And I've been in his shoes, my wife used to be quite insecure based on her own reasons. I used to say "I cant deal with this, I didnt do anything to deserve it, I think we need to break up" then it occurred to me that by saying that, I was making her more insecure as she was worried I was so unhappy that I would act on it. It was only when I realized it was counterproductive and reassured her insecurity with "I love you, Im not going anywhere" that the tide turned back from insecurity to security. Part of being in a relationship is processing the information from both sides, not just your own side. Appreciating whats driving your partners feelings and doing what you can to not feed into it.

[Blue Spiral]

I don't think it's necessarily manipulation, on his part. I think he's just low-commitment and hates drama. I've done the exact same thing many times, both in relationships and other things: I encounter drama, I don't want to deal with it, and I leave. Life is too short, and I'm not an "Oh my god, this situation isn't going well, I need to devote my life to solving this problem" kind of guy.

[camus154]

It's precisely manipulation because he'd make these threats but then not make good on them. If he wants to avoid drama, fine, then stand by your word and leave. Otherwise you're just using it as a control tactic.

[Edmund Exley]

I don't think it's necessarily manipulation, on his part. I think he's just low-commitment and hates drama. I've done the exact same thing many times, both in relationships and other things: I encounter drama, I don't want to deal with it, and I leave. Life is too short, and I'm not an "Oh my god, this situation isn't going well, I need to devote my life to solving this problem" kind of guy.

 

But when you are in a relationship and you are using the threat of ending the relationship as a means of not dealing with the drama, you are playing upon the emotions and the fears of a person you supposedly love, and who loves you. If he truly wants out because her behaviour is more than he wants to deal with in a partner, then he should end it. Otherwise it is in deed manipulation to create the type of behaviour he expects from her.

[berry01]

I do agree that sometimes I just have to bite my tongue and think through the things I say prior to saying them. Maybe if I'm able to totally let my guard down and not question him about anything anymore will show him that my security is coming back and will let the relationship bloom. At this point, there's so much anger and negativity between us that I'm not even sure where to begin rebuilding. Edmund, he's said to me so many times "I love you, I promise you I'm not going anywhere" but somehow it was never enough. Something always came up that made me feel he betrayed me and the trust in our relationship and always took me back to questioning his intentions and whereabouts. For now I guess the only option I have is to stick to my guns and give him some space since he has probably said he doesn't want to be together about 20 times in the past 12 hours. I hope he realizes the mistakes he's made in turning every wrong on me and never actually realizing much of it has been his own fault. Only time will tell, right?

[DN]

I agree that there is more to this than him threatening to leave the relationship. That may be manipulative but it may also be the result of feeling that he is being hounded and controlled. So rather than escalating this situation by saying whose wrong or whose right it would surely be better to have a discussion about the core issue - which as far as I can see is this - is he cheating or planning on cheating with his ex(s). Everything that flows from that issue - insecurity, argument's threats and ultimatums - are symptoms not causes.

 

Once the central issue has been resolved then you both need to find a better way to resolve issues than you have so far demonstrated over this one.

[berry01]

We have had the discussion about the ex. He assured me and swore up and down that he would never and will never cheat on me. However, I do think he is being manipulative in his tug of war with me saying he loves me and would never cheat and then saying he can't deal and he's done. It's confusing and totally taints the whole dynamic of the relationship.

[DN]

Do you believe him that he would never cheat with the ex?

[magnoliatree]

I think that both of you need space, not just your ex. You need to recenter yourself and reflect on what you are doing and why. You are both locked in this cycle of back and forth, on and off, and it's slowly tearing you to shreds. Until you can both have an adult conversation, you both need to stay away from each other.

[Blue Spiral]

But when you are in a relationship and you are using the threat of ending the relationship as a means of not dealing with the drama, you are playing upon the emotions and the fears of a person you supposedly love, and who loves you.

 

Unfortunately, we aren't mind-readers, so we don't know if he's bolting because of my reason (low commitment, anti-drama) or yours (trying to control her). My social skills aren't advanced enough to manipulate anyone; I honestly feel comfortable just abandoning any situation that becomes problematic. Despite that, I've been accused of "playing games," as I'm...not playing by the usual relationship rules. Maybe this guy is the same. Or maybe she'll ignore him back, and he'll come begging.

[Edmund Exley]

We have had the discussion about the ex. He assured me and swore up and down that he would never and will never cheat on me. However, I do think he is being manipulative in his tug of war with me saying he loves me and would never cheat and then saying he can't deal and he's done. It's confusing and totally taints the whole dynamic of the relationship.

 

I agree with DN that there is many roots to this issue. That said, is he totally adament that he will continue to maintian contact with the ex, even knowing that its part of the problem? If he is, then you have to decide if YOU can be OK with that or not, and if you decide YOU are OK with it, you have to accept it, not use it against him to play on your insecurity. If you arent OK with it, then the decision falls in your court as to whether you can move forward in a relationship with a person that feels having communication with an ex is more important than easing your fears.

 

Im not saying he doesnt have a right to have innocent communciation with an ex. Im saying he has a right to decide if it bothering you is more important than talking to her. Once he decided on that, then you have a right to make a decision if you can be OK with it. You both then need to live with your decision, not keep trying it over and over.

[Thorshammer]

Thorshammer, your really spot on. What you said is exactly what he has said to me before. That my nagging him makes him feel like regardless of what he does it's going to go wrong so he doesn't care anymore.

 

I cant speak for your ex, especially when I relate to me personally when i get deeper into specifics. But it was hard being told what I was doing was wrong. I was never the bad boyfriend, unless i intentionaly wanted to be (and i did have my small stint of being the bad-boy, but those were flings), so it was hard hearing it from someone i loved. My ex, i believe had depression and deep anxiety, she was neglected by her home growing up (plus has a string of bad-men). If this is true, then it might account with her sudden agitation. This was enough to hold me back from going crazy, and I mean C R A Z Y... I mean really friggin crazy.

 

Here are some of the things I had to deal with:

 

You dont kiss me enough- I always wanted a camera in her face... so she can see how untrue that was. It was never enough. At some point, which i regret now, it got increasingly hard to show her passion. Sex took a serious nose-dive.

 

You dont care - I dont know who she thought I was, but if i didnt.. i would have left. it got to the point that i felt she had a spear jabbing me with it like an animal telling me what to do. It got to the point that we would fight, and then she would want me to get her something during the middle of it (alot of "tests" she played that i dont think she realized she was playing) and i would flat out refuse. I didnt even want to help her with things unless she really needed help, because i felt like i was bullied. Love comes naturally, dont force it.. or it will seem forced. Its like keep a young kid down and telling them they will never make something of themselves, and making sure his attempts are squashed and ridiculed... it wont come as a surprise that he might come out feeling like a failure, and at some point just give up.

 

When i showed i cared or was passionate, i felt like i was UNDER A MAGNIFYING GLASS! I felt insecure with all of that, i felt judged. I felt INADEQUATE.

 

And booooooooy, did the fights come to standstills. I felt she can kick me in the face and spit on my mother, but get away with it, while i can catch her red-handed... and i was the bad guy. She threw this YOU THINK LOGICAL, I THINK EMOTIONAL! No, you have emotional issues you are not communicating about, and i am logically trying to make sense of what little you wont reveal!

 

But, i still loved her, and i knew she had issues, and i knew i had my own that I couldnt sit still without thinking she was walking over me. I wont lie, i was with women that tore my heart out and farted on it. So, to push me around.. was not a good idea. Her depression is what stopped me from giving up and actually fully believing that i was wrong for her. But, then she said she didnt have it, and doubts that she does (she has it... so does the rest of her family) that it opened the fights and i didnt stand for any of it since i felt it as an attack against me.

 

Also, she was like this with her ex's, she just didnt want to admit it. I read a letter she let me read that was from her ex, and she was complaining about the same thing to him. And this was the dude that was puppy-love sweet to her. This letter.... this letter... during the holidays last year... pushed me to work on it. Because for once, i realized, i wasnt the problem alone, that what i thought was right, and i wasnt the big eff up.

 

The background with the ex is that they didn't stay friends after they broke up but she has told everyone including him, his siblings, his parents and his friends that she loves him and will do anything to get him back, apparently she offered to buy him a house if he would take her back. He has always told me he'd never take her back and he never loved her but because they didn't end on bad terms he doesn't feel he should completely ignore her. It always bothered me because CLEARLY her intentions are to get back together with him and when a man is dating a woman he loves and respects, he shouldn't be speaking to an ex who is vying for him in every possible way.

 

He also says his conversations with her are about stupid things and never related to me or them or anything romantic. We also had a period of time where we broke up and I know he was spending time with other women in social circles and what not while I was trying to work on myself for the relationship and had nobody else on the side. This was also something that made me insecure and jealous. All of this jealousy and feelings built up inside of me and I kind of feel like I've let go of most of them but at this point my boyfriend doesn't believe that I'll stop that possessiveness I have within me as a result of all the crap I've had to deal with.

 

Well, this would be cause for alarm. I would tell you that at the very least he is being honest, but at the same time this could be him hinting that he has options as a form of power.

 

I did have an ex (another one, not the friend) who was chasing me for 5 years. I ran into her and i hid, and so did she. She hit me up like crazy on aim, asking how i was, etc. I will be honest and say i didnt tell her about the aim convo. It wasnt needed, and i didnt want to continue communications with her. But this girl regretted leaving me. As soon as my ex broke up with me, she hit me up 2 weeks later like a wolf snatching up food.

 

Also, the friend ex still likes me, shes an ex from 8 years ago. We did playfully flirt a few times. But i would never cheat on my ex, and the contact wasnt constant. She did tell me, that if me and my ex didnt work out, that she would marry me (shes with someone now i think, lol).

 

I am not saying he would or wouldnt make a move, its impossible to tell. But if my ex read messages from past ex's she would get worried. But i would never do anything with them. Despite the fighting, i knew i wanted her.

 

What ended up happening with your relationship Thorshammer?

 

I dont really know... i can usually figure out my break ups, but this one has be puzzled. We were together for 3 years, had problems similar to yours for 2 years. We decided to wipe the slate clean, not mention the past, and work on the future. But, i think she gave up at that time. I measured her love and attraction for me with her insecurity and nagging. As i look back now, i realize thats when she was having doubts (note, she always had doubts, then would change it and be super happy with me) when she stopped getting on my nerves. She sort of turned into a zombie. Then I started getting needy, and our roles reversed somewhat, and that was the final straw.

 

I dont blame her, stress takes a toll. We had way too many problems that we just swept it under the rug. I would like to think we can fix things, but her love and affection i still feel will be accompanied by nagging and insecurity. I was also insecure and sad. All we had left was love, and her love slipped when attraction fizzled out. Also, a trip to miami, meeting new friends, helped bury me. We didnt have stress anymore, but since i assume she was giving up slowly, it was the perfect exit now since she had this new life to safely embrace her.

 

Also, me and her took many "breaks". We got into some stupid small fight (one time i told her she comes at me like if i cheated on her, her level of anger didnt match the reason, she went overboard), and i honestly had enough. I said it was over, and packed my things. She ran out and locked herself out of her apartment, and she knew i wouldnt leave her. So i did my brooklyn thing and opened the locked door and we forgot about it, i went from being the piece of doodoo, to the hero, lol.

 

Another time she said she was leaving. I actually got really emotional. She THOUGHT its because i didnt want her to leave, but no.. its because i knew it had to be over. I got sad because i embraced the end of us. She didnt leave though.

 

One time I was too tired of it all, and i was too heated to think clearly and i said it was over. She watched me leave and didnt care. When i went out the door, she broke down crying, it killed me inside. I never did it again since then.

 

You can say this was a move for control, because i couldnt control the situation, so i decided to end it on my terms. But i never thought clearly, it was done in sudden anger and emotions. And if i did go through with it, i know i would have called her and told her i wanted her back. it never got that far. I never wanted to fight, i would always feel horrible about the fights, even when she intentionally did something, it still hurt me that she was hurt, and that it wasnt working out. It killed my confidence bad, and i felt if i couldnt make it work.

 

ughhh... too... much... writing....

 

I think this one will go down as the one that doesnt come back... and the one that i actually wanted to and should have...

[jerk chicken]

I have been through the exactly same thing,

whenever an argument used to happen my bf would flip out and say he never wants to see me again/we have to break up/ he hates me etc. I used to get so upset and in a state that I would cry and beg him to make up with me. One day i was like * * * am i loosing my self respect here as I think you seem to be right now!!!!

So we had a massive argument again one day and he did the same routine, I didnt react-let him storm off and when he called me after about a week and a half with some excuse asking where something of his was i just hung up, he then harrased me for ages and then came begging to me.

Even if he didnt come begging to me id realised that i could not compromise my self respect BEGGING for some guy, if he wants to break up with you over something stupid, but if you have your self respect and love for yourself you will realise like me, HE WILL BE THE ONE MISSING OUT on someone nice and amazing.

[berry01]

Thorshammer, how long has it been since all of this went down? Perhaps she will still come back. You never know the power NC can have. Thanks for sharing your story with me and thank you to everyone else who has replied in such a constructive and honest way.

 

I think that with reading everyones input made me realize that my boyfriend and I really need some space apart. I don't think he would cheat on me and I don't think he would go back to his ex but I really can't say why I have this jealousy and insecurity running through my veins. I've never felt insecure in any previous relationship but because I felt like this one was for the long haul, I gave my whole heart and soul to it and now I am terrified that it may be ending. We spoke this past weekend about all of our issues and we made a deal that he would stop contact with his ex's and I would be more trusting and normal towards him. He feels like I "broke my promise" yesterday when I needed to know where he was and accused him of lying.

 

Even with space, I'm not sure how to regain security in the relationship. My boyfriend is at the point of feeling that I will never change. He's expressed to me today in the form of emails that he believes I've made many false promises about not questioning him, trusting him, etc and because of all those false promises he's hurt and thinks I won't change and the relationship will just continue in a standstill. That's why he wants out, because he doesn't see change anytime soon. What I can't seem to get him to understand is that 99% of the time my reactions are directly in response to his actions. I believe that it's normal for any woman or man to react to a SO or friends or parents actions when they've been hurt. It's not healthy to sweep your feelings and reactions under the rug and have no reaction all together. After all, we are all humans with beating hearts and emotions.

 

Perhaps a change I can offer is feeling more secure in the relationship and curtailing my interrogating questions towards him which I am sensing definitely make him feel strangled. I'm not even sure if he will buy it at this point.

[magnoliatree]

In his emails, what has he offered to do to put things right on his end?

[camus154]

He's expressed to me today in the form of emails that he believes I've made many false promises about not questioning him, trusting him, etc and because of all those false promises he's hurt and thinks I won't change and the relationship will just continue in a standstill. That's why he wants out, because he doesn't see change anytime soon.

 

He's telling you exactly what you need to do in order to start improving things. Are you listening?

 

What I can't seem to get him to understand is that 99% of the time my reactions are directly in response to his actions. I believe that it's normal for any woman or man to react to a SO or friends or parents actions when they've been hurt. It's not healthy to sweep your feelings and reactions under the rug and have no reaction all together. After all, we are all humans with beating hearts and emotions.

 

No. Just no. You're not listening. You're not going to get him to understand this because all you're doing is flipping the blame right back onto him. All you're saying here is "I still do this because it's your fault. You make me react like this. No wonder he thinks you're not going to change. You're not!

 

No one makes you react like anything, only you do. What did he do to "make" you accuse him of lying when you asked where he was?

 

If you don't start taking responsibility for your actions, you WILL lose him.

[berry01]

For the past year I have taken responsibility for literally everything, despite the fact that 50% of the time it wasn't my fault. I just did it to appease him and the situation. I'm sick and tired of always apologizing and still being blamed for everything by him. He didn't offer anything in the emails but when we spoke last weekend he promised not to speak to the ex which is what I told him I needed him to do in order to re-gain a sense of normalcy. The way he handled the situation on the phone was disrespectful and if I did that to him he would completely go hay wire! He always expects me to answer his calls, emails, messages in lightening time. Perhaps I should not have accused him of lying but I don't think it was wrong of me to simply ask where he was, he could've answered me and this would all have been avoided. Essentially, in our emails he says he loves me but feels like all I do is poo on him in return. He keeps saying "I'm done with this BS" and it's making me feel like there is NOTHING I can do to save this relationship from it's grave, even though I am pretty much willing to do anything to see him happy.

[camus154]

For the past year I have taken responsibility for literally everything, despite the fact that 50% of the time it wasn't my fault.

 

You didn't "have" to do anything, you chose to.

 

I'm sick and tired of always apologizing and still being blamed for everything by him.

 

Then quit doing it.

 

The way he handled the situation on the phone was disrespectful and if I did that to him he would completely go hay wire!

 

You can't control his reactions, only your own. Still pointing the finger by this hypothetical role reversal.

 

He always expects me to answer his calls, emails, messages in lightening time.

 

Does he? Or are you projecting this onto him or assuming he's just like you? And if you don't like doing this, then you're quite free to take longer to respond.

 

Perhaps I should not have accused him of lying

 

No perhaps here, you shouldn't have. Period.

 

but I don't think it was wrong of me to simply ask where he was, he could've answered me and this would all have been avoided.

 

He could have done things differently, but he didn't. That doesn't matter, you're STILL focusing all on him. You could have handled the situation differently too and this all would have been avoided.

 

See what I'm getting at here? You're still so focused on "I couldn't help my reactions because he reacted badly". That's BS. You are ALWAYS in control of your own actions and reactions.

 

Look, sounds to me like the both of you are too caught up, again, in pointing fingers and blaming each other and neither one of you is willing to be the bigger man and take the high road. Until one of you makes that choice to stop being the victim and start choosing to control the only thing you can control--your OWN self--nothing is going to change.

[berry01]

I never really looked at it from that perspective because I've been so caught up in feeling victimized. You definitely make a very valid point camus, while I wish I had someone tell me this weeks or months ago I can't really go back and undo whats been done. I already told my bf earlier today that one of us needs to take the high road, his response "There is no reason to take the high road. We're at a dead end and the road can't be built any longer". I can't seem to say or do anything to change his mind, although I really want to

[camus154]

Just give him--and yourself--some time. I think you're stuck in a toxic rut that's very much clouding your feelings for each other. Let the air clear the fumes away a bit. And for all my ragging about taking responsibility, that's obviously not a guarantee that he will do likewise and pull his own weight. You can really only try by setting your own example.

 

I sincerely wish you the best, good luck.

[berry01]

Thanks Camus, I hope space and time works here. We are definitely stuck in something toxic, hoping those toxic fumes dissipate and we can find happiness and security underneath all the pain. I guess at this point it's all a matter of time and fate?

[camus154]

Time, fate, patience...hang in there. And btw, the reason I'm being so harsh on you (other than I'm just kind of harsh in general) is because I've been there before, believe me. It's not fun. It can be a bitter pill to swallow. But it's really the only way to maintain your sanity. Otherwise your energy just gets sapped.

 

Good luck!

[Thorshammer]

Thorshammer, how long has it been since all of this went down? Perhaps she will still come back. You never know the power NC can have. Thanks for sharing your story with me and thank you to everyone else who has replied in such a constructive and honest way.

 

Broke up 4 months ago.

 

I had all my ex's come back in time, even those i met on strange unpopular (now dead) websites who were very vicious to me, come back. But with this one... i made sure i killed all hope. I did try with her after she broke into my facebook and started snooping around, she saw ex's trying to get with me, and though I wasnt interested, they were still hunting me down. I had other girls also hitting me up. That might have done me more harm. I broke NC twice to fix the damage, but not go. This is dead in the water.

 

Its alright, i am not sweating it. I did what i did to heal, and i feel better than ever. But... sometimes I do remember how sad she was, her desperation on her face, the attempt to smile, when she realized our passion was dying... thats what i struggle with now. Not having hope or getting her back. I just want her to be happy.

I think that with reading everyones input made me realize that my boyfriend and I really need some space apart. I don't think he would cheat on me and I don't think he would go back to his ex but I really can't say why I have this jealousy and insecurity running through my veins. I've never felt insecure in any previous relationship but because I felt like this one was for the long haul, I gave my whole heart and soul to it and now I am terrified that it may be ending. We spoke this past weekend about all of our issues and we made a deal that he would stop contact with his ex's and I would be more trusting and normal towards him. He feels like I "broke my promise" yesterday when I needed to know where he was and accused him of lying.

 

You see... i smelled this one you! I read in-between the lines and saw familiarity. I have went through this with my recent ex, and other ex's as well.

 

You need to trust. Its not cute, its not adorable, its not sweet, you dont love, when you behave that way. You are not looking like a damsel in distress with this insecurity, you are looking unattractive. If he, or anyone else, will betray you, you controlling or acting on it will do NOTHING. You can even argue that it will push him to do it.

 

Swallow you tongue. Not because you have to, but because... you are supposed to, if you have nothing to stand out to accuse. I dont know what the origin of insecurity is coming from, from family, from the past, but you have to control it. Sometimes a break up is needed to see that. A break-up is a dramatic enough experience to force the issue (it was for me, because i was that way too with some women).

 

Even with space, I'm not sure how to regain security in the relationship. My boyfriend is at the point of feeling that I will never change. He's expressed to me today in the form of emails that he believes I've made many false promises about not questioning him, trusting him, etc and because of all those false promises he's hurt and thinks I won't change and the relationship will just continue in a standstill. That's why he wants out, because he doesn't see change anytime soon. What I can't seem to get him to understand is that 99% of the time my reactions are directly in response to his actions. I believe that it's normal for any woman or man to react to a SO or friends or parents actions when they've been hurt. It's not healthy to sweep your feelings and reactions under the rug and have no reaction all together. After all, we are all humans with beating hearts and emotions.

 

Perhaps a change I can offer is feeling more secure in the relationship and curtailing my interrogating questions towards him which I am sensing definitely make him feel strangled. I'm not even sure if he will buy it at this point.

 

Dont go over-board though. Dude needs to learn how to communicate too and stop running and breaking your heart each time. I might seem like i am pointing the finger at you, but i am just trying to show you my side, which is neutral. I am sure he needs to better himself, because a better men than us, could have probably dealt with you (and my ex) better than we did.

 

Communication can kill issues before they grow. He can take certain steps to appease your anxiety. Just because you need to work on yourself doesnt mean the dude should go shooting his lips all the time. To balance things out and get rid of the constant struggle of who is right and wrong, just try to work a, "i will do this, if you please do this for me too... just to make it easier." Respect each other privacy and freedom.

 

If he does you wrong.. then guess who is at fault... him... not you anymore. Right now, you give him the ammo to say, "uhmmm, you do this and that", so you have a standstill, and you have to deal with the fact that you played a part in the break-up, which is harder to swallow (for me, blaming yourself hurts more), and is more likely to happen as of right now. Dont bring the guns out until the crime is committed.

[Thorshammer]

Just wait it out and see what he does. I was the same way, she said it was a double standard with me too with certain things. Its a power struggle between you two, you might not see it, but i bet thats what hes feeling.

 

I handled her nagging with walking out and not talking to her, or sitting quiet. One time I got so mad i got on my knees and said, "is that what you want, a freaking puppet!!!!" It was bad. She wanted to handle and fix things right then and there, and i needed time to cool off. Even that alone felt like she was pushing to have her way.

 

But honestly, i dont know if i should take my post back that I just posted above this. My ex swallowed it in, and she eventually stopped caring. So you both need to resolve it more than just throwing it under the rug and hoping you both can adapt.

[berry01]

Thorshammer, "She wanted to handled and fix things right then and there, and i needed time to cool off. Even that alone felt like she was pushing to have her way." ... That is literally exactly me. I never in my life needed time to cool off so it's difficult for me to swallow others need for "cool off" time because I just don't understand it. I always push and push sort of until that person is super annoyed and just gives up with me. I definitely need to work at swallowing my tongue and thinking before I act. I've always lacked in that department but always brushed it off as well that's just me. At this point my bf (ex bf?) not sure what to call him has been saying all day that he's done with the relationship, that my actions and reactions are inexcusable and he refuses to live his life waiting for me to change. Do you think that time and space is the right approach in this situation? I hate having the feeling that it's friday night he might go out and see the ex or whoever else, that feeling just kills me! My normal habit would be to call and call him tonight and bug him about where he is who he is with just because he basically told me he doesn't want to discuss anything and I don't think that's fair to say after 3 years being together. My updated self wants to say I will just back off and let this be until he calls me but than I worry that he may never call. These are just the worst feelings!