Need some perspective,insulted and angry,a bit lengthy

[jaywalk]

Had a situation come up that was somewhat unexpected but not entirely a surprise. But my son kind of broke up with his girlfriend of three years. I say kind of because she wants a break, we're pretty sure there's another guy in the picture, and my son has little or no answers and he's hurtin pretty bad. As a parent, I wanted to make things better for him but the dad in me, the man in me knows this is something he has to go through and deal with as he sees fit. No one wants to see their kid heartbroken or desperately seeking answers or even making the typical mistakes that come from such a thing. I have always been shown that when one makes a mistake and learns from it, they typically will share the experience and people will learn from his mistake and not repeat it in their own lives. So we try as parents to pass on the lessons we learned to our kids and then wonder why they werent listening as we watch them make the same mistakes we did. I know we all have to learn in our own way and I respect that, which is why I for the most part have left him to himself with the understanding that he knew I was here for him and I can listen. I've been accused in the past of a tendency to lecture, and I'd knowledged that to him which is why I told him of front that I had some advice, that I have an idea of what he's going through, and I had some encouragement for him. I provided a means to which he could busy himself to take his mind off of his troubles, suggested that he not speak to this girl for some time nor visit her nor attend anything to which she would also be attending. I suggested he seek out his friends and spend time with them, I even suggested that he get in touch with the throng of girls that have been chasing him and began dating (maybe not so much dating, as spending time with these girls) as soon as possible. After which I told him that I would not bring up his girlfriend nor would I press him for information. I would let him come to me if he wanted to talk. I assured him that I am only interested in how his day's going and how he is coping. In essence, I gave a general idea of do's and don'ts that have not only worked in my life, but I have seen suggested here and then left him to his own devices. His mother is understandably concerned, she is frustrated with the process even though she and I agree on how this should probably proceed.

Of late my son has not been taking my advice (which to be honest I really didn't think he would anyway) and has maintained contact and as anyone could guess, he's not doing so well with it. Today I called and woke him up and told him we will be talking again and 1/2 hour and that I wanted his attention and his head clear. He is to speak to nobody else until he and I speak. Authoritative is that may sound I had my reasons, namely I had a feeling he would do what what he did, which is: get his mother involved.

So I receive a phone call from my mom telling me what's going on and that from one parent to another, I should leave my son alone. I am traveling on business, I have spent 35 minutes on the phone with my son in the last eight days, and to that end really have not involved myself too heavily. So now I'm insulted, frustrated and not to mention, the least bit angry (maybe a little hurt) by what transpired. I'm insulted by the fact that my own family doesn't seem to know me that well much less listen to what I told them, frustrated by the idea that by simply showing that I care and am interested in the daily happenings of their lives, that I am being intrusive. Angry, and maybe a little hurt, by the fact that I seemingly am not allowed to even call and ask how things are going.

So now comes my reaction. I called both my wife and son on their respective lines, told the boy exactly what I was going to say to him when I did speak to him, which was I understand he's planning on going somewhere tonight that I would recommend he does not go but he can do what he wants. I also intimated to both of them that I am insulted, and angry over the notion that I obviously can't even call and ask how people are doing. So to that end I told both of them that if they want me to know how they are, either of them, then they can call me. I will not be calling them and imposing myself on them because clearly just because I'm curious how other day is going, I'm being intrusive. So they can call me when they have something to say and I, hopefully will be able to answer the phone.

Maybe I didn't handle them the best way, maybe I did, who's to say? All I know at this point is that, for the time being there both OK (reasonably) and that I shouldn't expect a phone call for probably a day are two.

[mhowe]

Sorry Dad --- but you get to be there for support only. I know you hurt when he does, but it is his life and his lessons to learn.

 

Your first bit of advice was fine --- but you so crossed the boundaries that I would not expect a call for way more than a day or two, and would not be surprised if he stopped taking your calls.

 

You've really no right to be angry or insulted -- but I'm sure you are.

[tattoobunnie]

People can get hurt...it's part of breaking up. And they will put themselves up when they are ready...not because of another person. Sure, support helps...but that's what it should be, not another person making demands, demanding they should feel a certain way...especially when they don't ask for your opinion or suggestions on what to do. Everyone has to learn the hard way one way or another. They do come around when they want to come around. And when you let them take certain risks (as long as it's not harmful) and actions, it really is a person's way of showing mutual respect.

 

It sounds like a giant miscommunication anyway. He thinks you're being a nagging bully, and you think he doesn't appreciate you. It's neither. I'd call him up and say, "I know I sound like I've been saying, I know best. I just hate to see you get hurt. I'll stay out of it. But if you need anything, I'm always here for you."

[jaywalk]

Mind you my biggest issue is they seem to think I dont listen so "we'll call grandma and she'll straighten him out". Worse, I know it's his deal to work through and been saying it all along and yet I'm being intrusive. The boy calls mom to get me to leave him alone (I mentioned the brief amount of time I've spoken to him) who in turn calls my mom who in turn tells me to back off. Back off of what? I hadnt even really gotten involved!!!!

I'm angry/hurt that I cant even call home to my family whom I miss and ask how they are it would seem.

They know how to reach me if they want/ need me, I am always there and that might be part of the equation. If I remove myself from the equation, they can come to me when they need me. Who knows, I might even be missed for once (gasp).

Not trying to make this out like I'm a victim, just mad.......I go to great lengths to provide for them and stay in touch whether I'm away or not, do things with/ for them and then get this. It gets me that I am seemingly not allowed to even show consideration or care for them or their daily goings on.

hmmph what a crock

[jaywalk]

hey tattoobunnie, i actually offered him some of your advice as well. No I wasnt telling him how he should feel or that I know best, he may have taken it that way but come on he's 17 and probably didnt hear most of what I said anyways. No I just told him to get some distance and perspective, work out and busy himself and I'm here if he needs me. I wont bug him or even ask what the latest is between them. just ask how he is getting along and can I do anything. no more no less

[mhowe]

Today I called and woke him up and told him we will be talking again and 1/2 hour and that I wanted his attention and his head clear. He is to speak to nobody else until he and I speak. Authoritative is that may sound I had my reasons, namely I had a feeling he would do what what he did, which is: get his mother involved

 

You wrote this, not me. It is over the boundary Dad. I know you are doing this out of love, but is his lesson. Forgive him --- he is learning. I can only imagine that growing up, you had trouble listening to others' advice, no matter how well intentioned.

[tattoobunnie]

Think of it this way...there are two people, his grandmother & mom, telling you to chill out, and instead of accomodating his request, you are now getting incredibiy defensive, and convinced they are all ganging up on you (A complete assumption!)

 

You're not listening. I know you love your son, and I know you want the best for him. There's a clear reason why he feels comfortable talking about it to others, and not you. And it's because you probably are making everything about you...how you feel, how you should be respected, how great you are being in all of this for him. And this is about him! His break-up.

 

There is a great difference in being attached and being committed. Being attached, you cannot conceive of other solutions, that it has to be a certain way or then it means something. Being committed just means being there for someone. I know you know best, heck, a lot of us do...but we need to be respectful and wait till we are asked.

[camus154]

I think the whole thing's kind of nutty. You instructed him not to talk to anyone else until he spoke with you because you were worried he'd get your wife involved? That's backhanded towards her and shows the two of you aren't united as parents. And then your wife calls your mom to talk to you? That's even more bizarre.

 

I think you and your wife need to be much better at how you approach things together as parents. If you're worried about teaching your son lessons, then you might want to think about what lessons you're teaching him now by all this going-behind-each-other's-backs behavior.

[jaywalk]

fair enough. thanks for your perspective. maybe i did deserve what i got. funny how i am less than involved in this out of repect for him and trusting my wife's intuition out of respect for her and yet here i am. shoved out of what i was barely involved in (and seemingly taking the passive role i thought was necessary)

thanks for the input

[agent1607307371]

OP, if as you admit, you have a tendency to lecture, then your sons reactions aren't the result of this one phone call but the reaction to every lecture or rule you have laid out, ever. Add to the fact that he's hurting, well, he might have overreacted based on what he thought was going to happen.

 

The fact that you are travelling and missing your family, I can see how you would be exta hurt by what has gone on also. I think that when you get home you all sit down and have a (not accusing) talk.

[toby17]

Hi jaywalk,

 

I know you probably don't see it but you come on too strong. Your post screams of it.

 

You mean well and it's difficult to see people you love hurt and not take good advice and you want to make it better. You're a "rescuer". It's the way you know how to contribute. And when that contribution is rejected, it's like you have no role, you feel rejected yourself and hurt.

 

But you are telling your son what to do. And you've probably been doing this all his life. So he tunes you out regardless of whether your advice is good. All he hears in nagging, and you pointing out what he's doing wrong probably makes him feel worse.

 

When your son doesn't take your advice or tries to get other people to get you to back off, he's sending you a message - a message that you're constantly ignoring. But neither of you is changing how you engage with one another.

 

Your son probably even understands your advice and might agree with it. But he's going thru a break up and he's hurting and probably emotionally stuck. If you read this site, you know that the pain can last for months. And people keep up contact even though it's not the best for them and do all kinds of stupid things that they later regret and hopefully won't do next time.

 

You can't protect him from pain, sometimes a person has to feel something themselves so that next time they know they'll get thru it.

 

It's hard to see other people hurt but try to be there for him in other ways. Lecturing your son isn't the only way to communicate with him. When you can, spend some quality time with him, doing an activity. That way you and your son can connect and he can get some needed distraction from his break up and problems.

 

I suggest you ban yourself from talking about his break entirely. Even if he asks for advice for it, don't give it (unless you're sure you can stop short of lecturing).

[jaywalk]

O.k, this is helpful...thanks to all for your input here but I feel a few things need clarifying,

"As a parent, I wanted to make things better for him but the dad in me, the man in me knows this is something he has to go through and deal with as he sees fit."

 

So as I said, no one wants to see their kids hurting but there are some thingsone just HAS to do. He will experience heartache in his lifetime and needs to know how to deal with it. This I know

 

"So we try as parents to pass on the lessons we learned to our kids and then wonder why they werent listening as we watch them make the same mistakes we did."

perhaps my sarcasm didnt quite leap off the screen here. basically you try and pass on good life lessons from your past and hope they were listening but hen shake your head when you see them do exactly what you told them not to do. kinda like the light socket or the stove eye....EVERY kid puts their hand in or on these despite our warnings.

 

" I know we all have to learn in our own way and I respect that, which is why I for the most part have left him to himself with the understanding that he knew I was here for him and I can listen"

 

Key point here is that I left him to figure things out on his own with the understanding that I am a call away and would gladly just listen

 

"I've been accused in the past of a tendency to lecture, and I'd knowledged that to him which is why I told him of front that I had some advice,"

 

I've been accused, doesnt mean I find the accusation valid. I had some advice to give to help him through this

 

"After which I told him that I would not bring up his girlfriend nor would I press him for information. I would let him come to me if he wanted to talk."

 

this is key here, I WOULD NOT BE BRINGING UP THE ISSUE. One more time from up in the cheap seats....I WOULD NOT BE BRINGING UP THE ISSUE. he would come to me if he wanted to talk about it

 

"I assured him that I am only interested in how his day's going and how he is coping."

What parent doesnt call and ask their kid how they are? really how intrusive is this being?

 

"

I gave a general idea of do's and don'ts that have not only worked in my life, but I have seen suggested here and thenleft him to his own devices"

 

see I have trouble understanding how I'm the villian in all this

 

"Of late my son has not been taking my advice (which to be honest I really didn't think he would anyway)"

 

not taking my advice is not uncommon for him, he is a very independent kind of kid and I actually encourage that in him if you can believe it

 

" He is to speak to nobody else until he and I speak"

Namely his girlfriend, he is planning on going to something in a small group that she will be part of and make life even harder on himself. which is his coice but there are other people there that I would have to deal with if things got ugly. also he is going to involve my wife, who in turn calls my mom (a former counselor) for advice and also to ask her to call me and keep me from calling my son. a tad dysfunctional I admit. We're working on it though. thisis unconventional at best

 

"So I receive a phone call from my mom telling me what's going on and that from one parent to another, I should leave my son alone"

This was rich... I was quick to point out that I learned not to meddle in my kids romantic life from her, wont go there) she said its a process and he's just gotta go through it. I never argued that fact. never

 

"I have spent 35 minutes on the phone with my son in the last eight days,"

 

You realize that not even 5 minutes a day on average right? For the most part mind you we talked about school,cars and guns

 

"and to that end really have not involved myself too heavily"

 

My wife is there and he has 5 different ways to get in touch with me if he wants, so again I left him to his own devices

 

" I understand he's planning on going somewhere tonight that I would recommend he does not go but he can do what he wants"

 

Again, I wouldnt put my hand on that pretty red stove eye if I were you, but if thats what you think is best

 

"I know it's his deal to work through and been saying it all along and yet I'm being intrusive"

 

yes its his breakup, yes its his monster to deal with, yes its his life lesson, I never thought otherwise. herein lies the crux of the matter;

 

"I'm angry/hurt that I cant even call home to my family whom I miss and ask how they are it would seem"

 

Quite frankly I am sick to death of being the bad guy because I want to see how my family is. I am sick to death of being hated for giving a damn. I am sick to death of having both my wife and son act like its SUCH a BURDEN to have someone who is genuinely interested in their day and what happened. My day isnt so interesting, I'm more interested in theirs and yet I'm a bad guy. I'm intrusive.

Did I handle this right? probably not, but dont think for a second that I am too close to this sitch...I have very very little clue about the finer details. as a matter of fact, I dont know too much because what little makes it too me is the fallout of the days events (him nearly breaking his hand comes to mind) which I didnt even talk to him about..merely ask if it helped, did he learn anything and how is the hand..

I wouldnt have posted this if I didnt want your perspectives so dont take this as anger at any of you. really, you only can make sense out of what is written and arent privy to the entire picture. I do appreciate the feeback and WILL be applying it as I see the occasion arise.

[jaywalk]

Well its been 5 days since I first posted this and the time and lack of contact with home has brought a bit of peace. While I know there is still junk going on, I have no idea of the extent and ignorance (as they say) is bliss.

There is comfort in distance and silence. Not a lot but it's there.

I think the biggest part of this whole drama (God I hate that word) is that as a guy, I cant just listen, I have to fix. Troubleshoot the problem and fix it. Apparently, all around me think thats what I'm about to do if I open my mouth. I guess thats fair considering my past performance. I still am offended that my own family is so seemingly put off by my desire to be connected. When i was growing up, we talked and shared our days. Both the ups and downs of the day. We helped each other see things from a different perspective and if there was an ongoing problem that never seemed to be resolved, dad put his foot down and made the necessary adjustments for us. Authoritative as it sounds, think of it this way; if every day you walked a certain way to get somewhere and everyday you got knocked down and kicked once or twice, chances are you would stop walking that way to get where you were going. Not every one gets the message quickly so dad steps in and foorbids you from going that direction withthe following justification: 'I'm sick of hearing day after day how you went that way and got hurt. You were advised not to go that way and you did it over and over. I let you figure out how to avoid that problem and yet here you are. If you wont learn the hard way, I'll make it easy on you. You are not to go that way again. If you do, not only will you get knocked down and kicked by that person, I will start taking things away. Starting with grounding you and the longer it takes you to learn the harsher my part wil become."

 

Mind you thats not an actual occurrence but the general message is there.....Well intentioned as it was, thats not always the best way to handle things.I know this though I have only had to employ that line of reasoning once or twice,and didnt like having to do so.

Daily introspection allows us to reflect on the way we deal with things and make corrections where we see problems. I thought I had made alot of corrections in my handling of things, apparently not a big enough change to be noticed. So having said that, looks like I've still got a long way to go.

 

It's very quiet here and I just needed to get that out. to any of you reading this, thanks for your time.

[journeynow]

To summarize, you...

1) have a tendency to lecture

2) told him [up?] front that [you] had some advice

3) woke him up and told him [you] will be talking again [in?] 1/2 hour and that [you] wanted his attention and his head clear. He is to speak to nobody else until he and [you] speak. Authoritative...

This approach was not welcomed passively and now:

​

A) I'm insulted by the fact that my own family doesn't seem to know me that well much less listen to what I told them,

B) frustrated by the idea that by simply showing that I care and am interested in the daily happenings of their lives, that I am being intrusive.

C) Angry, and maybe a little hurt, by the fact that I seemingly am not allowed to even call and ask how things are going.

D) insulted, and angry over the notion that I obviously can't even call and ask how people are doing.

E) I will not be calling them and imposing myself on them because clearly just because I'm curious how other day is going, I'm being intrusive.

 

Maybe I didn't handle them the best way, maybe I did, who's to say?

 

If you are asking for advice I think you need to reconsider your approach to giving advice. Advice is OFFERED, not forced on someone. And often advice that is not asked for is not appreciated by the receiver. By lecturing, being authoritative, waking him up and demanding his attention, demanding that he talk to no one else (this is WAY over the line, by the way) you are coming accross as superior, condescending, and controlling.

 

Lecturing ≠ curious about how their day is going

Demanding attention = intrusive

Authoritative ≠ offering advice

Telling people what they will be doing & when, because you expect them to ≠ calling and asking how they are doing

 

I'm sorry, but I think your approach is too harsh, you want to fix and correct him, are too controlling for it to go smoothly, and (frankly) you are insulting your son and your wife with your attitude that you know better than them. It's not that your advice is wrong or your experience not valuable, but you are forcing it down their throats. You need a lot less ego, and much more heart in this situation. When you listen, it is not about you, but about them. Learn to listen to your loved ones, and not fix or correct them.

 

It's not always easy.

 

{EDIT: I wrote this after I read the opening post, and hadn't caught up with your update. Sorry about that. I can understand your thinking, but I can see why your approach backfired, too.}

 

{EDIT 2: I still think it's about learning to listen. You probably have to go to the opposite extreme until they get it that you are there to listen. As is stands now, it sounds like you will only listen about problems when they want to take your advice...which is still comes accross as superior even though you do it out of concern.}