My 2nd rejection since the last one 2 months before. Moving on...

[Jim Wormold]

I broke NC after 5 weeks to call her. Some say you need a month

for each year, others say 2 months NC, another 2 months for the ex

to miss you.

 

Be that as it may, I did it. Except (!) I never got through to her but left

a message to say hope she was fine with flat and job search. Didn't ask

her to call back. After a week she texted to say she would call at the weekend

and that was when I decided not to answer her call. Which I did. On Sunday

she tried again, except she did this with another number.

 

I called this number thinking it was a friend and there it was, her voice.

We actually joked and had a fun chat - no serious topics. I was totally on form-

confident and relaxed, but saying I needed to go.

 

Afterwards she sends me a text to say "we spoke, but also didn't speak. Dont

know what to say. Sorry."

 

I called this evening to clarify. Incredibly, that was a rejection message by sms!!!

 

She then said we should meet someday to "talk" and it was crystal clear what

she meant.

 

Incredibly again - she said she would do so "when she felt like it".

 

Since there was no point in hanging around and my self-respect would

not allow this, I came clean about my process working on myself. The desire

to have a 100% relationship of giving and not just receiving and the criteria

for a 2nd chance (in case she had been influenced by friends that it doesn't work).

 

I said I accepted and respected her decision, that I loved her and that I would not be

calling again. I feel relieved and was totally not clingy or emotional in any way.

 

My therapist actually told me my background with my father has ensured that I have

continually blocked myself off from letting go completely in a relationship,

explains the rejections when providing security. I guessed to her that she had switched off

(burying feelings) in reaction to me, she thought this might be but nevertheless "feelings were gone".

 

I think this has been the best for me in that I am not as upset as I thought

I would be. I have started a process of forgiving myself and building confidence. I am not

that bad looking, other women have been trying to see me, but I do still love this woman and

needed to sort my life out first.

 

Please dont tell me I called too early - I am over my guilt and self-loathing period

 

Any anyway, now she knows I am moving on .. and improving. I am not helping her ego

with the thought I am waiting. She may even enter her missing you phase fine because I am

officially gone, if not, I am moving on. I somehow feel as if the grieving is over. Let's see if I get

over her or not. Maybe it hasn't sunk in yet.

 

Whatever. I am looking forward to a special relationship where I can give of myself completely.

I want to grow now as a person. Anyone who can reject me by text is not worth given the

impression that I am waiting....

 

Thanks for all your help and I welcome any comments!

[LDRohnos]

"we spoke, but also didn't speak. Dont

know what to say. Sorry."

 

Think maybe she replied to you in this way because you didn't talk about the one thing that interested her more than all these light topics? Such as your relationship? Usually there's not much to talk about with an ex if it doesn't involve the two of you getting back together.

 

I think if you want to get back with this girl you need to swallow a bit of your pride and tell her what you want.

 

Basically you have two choices here..

 

A) Call her and talk about what matters to you, your relationship... Not the weather or the local sports team. Be prepared for an answer you do not want to her then move on. It will at least give you closure.

 

B) Just move on starting today. Stop contacting her in any way and pretend that she does not exist anymore.

[Jim Wormold]

It's rather ironic that you talk about your self respect and you pride yourself on not being clingy and emotional in any way but you were exactly that when you got into the whole "working on yourself" and you "respect her decision" and you "won't call her anymore" even though you "still love her". If you ever end up in the position of being dumped again, leave all of that OUT.

 

You couldn't resist that could you.

 

You are so cool.

 

Your knee-jerk reaction completely overlooked the fact that my opening up dealt with the reason

for her blockage. Something she may only completely comprehend later.

 

But nevermind. I can see you would like to put me down in this kind of moment. Nice.

[Jim Wormold]

Think maybe she replied to you in this way because you didn't talk about the one thing that interested her more than all these light topics? Such as your relationship? Usually there's not much to talk about with an ex if it doesn't involve the two of you getting back together.

 

I think if you want to get back with this girl you need to swallow a bit of your pride and tell her what you want.

 

Basically you have two choices here..

 

A) Call her and talk about what matters to you, your relationship... Not the weather or the local sports team. Be prepared for an answer you do not want to her then move on. It will at least give you closure.

 

B) Just move on starting today. Stop contacting her in any way and pretend that she does not exist anymore.

 

 

Exactly. And that is what I have done.

[Jim Wormold]

And no I was NOT clingy. I simply stated things as they were and said goodbye.

[Thorshammer]

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy...

 

Jimmy...

 

Jim...

 

What happened with the cool, careless, and calm, and distance?

 

Well, you are going to do what you want to do. Taking any ones online advice should never go before your own, if none of what posters say make sense to you, then it wont. I broke NC and told my ex I appreciated her, and I knew she tried her best to stay with me, and other thing, and concluded it with a more respectful goodbye. That gave me peace of mind, because I ended it on a sour note before, and I didnt want that with the only woman I loved.

 

If this got that itch scratched, then you passed it, and you have exhausted the last of your abilities and can think clearer now.

 

Jim...

[CMS]

Jimmy given your current state of mind I am going to go easy on you.

 

But dude, seriously you need to reread what you wrote in a few month, you might not like what you read.

 

Atlas, what is done is done, keep on healing man.

[Thorshammer]

I disagree. The reason people come here for advice is because they don't know the best way to handle it and you know the old saying about how it's easier to give advice than to receive it, and lots of people including myself dispense quality advice that they wouldn't follow if they were the ones in the very same situation, we just can't. Because we react on emotions and not logic. If we did the latter, this forum wouldn't even need to be here.

 

Lol, is there a rule that says that here? That we have to follow strangers advice? Because... uhmmm, no we dont. I see a lot of dumb advice here all the time. Not everyone here is a therapist or qualified here.

 

And I give out advice all the time, my private message box blows up everyday with people want more personal advice, BUT ITS UP TO THEM to follow it. Every break up is different, no one can pretend to be a guru against the will of another persons human mind. Advice are alternatives to what they think can better them, if it doesnt stick, then he is well into his right to disagree.

 

Also.. did it ever occur to you that people come here to vent or just to be heard?

[LDRohnos]

I always found these forums to be in a sense a source of academia. Both in offering advice and receiving it. As with all things academic...you do with it what you want.

[HopeArises]

Think maybe she replied to you in this way because you didn't talk about the one thing that interested her more than all these light topics? Such as your relationship? Usually there's not much to talk about with an ex if it doesn't involve the two of you getting back together.

 

I think if you want to get back with this girl you need to swallow a bit of your pride and tell her what you want.

 

Basically you have two choices here..

 

A) Call her and talk about what matters to you, your relationship... Not the weather or the local sports team. Be prepared for an answer you do not want to her then move on. It will at least give you closure.

 

B) Just move on starting today. Stop contacting her in any way and pretend that she does not exist anymore.

 

WOW, this couldn't be further from the truth. You think talking about getting back together on the first conversation after NC is the way to go? You're DEAD WRONG. Sorry, but even if she wanted to talk about that, it takes time and he can't be responsible if he didn't bring it up. Anyone who knows anything about regaining your lost loves attraction is to keep it light at first. Build a friendship and connection, or more so RE-build one.

 

I don't agree with the way he handled the conversation when he called her back to clarify what her message meant, but no way would I ever advise anyone who is calling the dumper on the very first conversation to discuss the old relationship. WAY too heavy and WAY too early. If you want your ex back, you need to have some self-restraint and control over your emotions. Being light and easy going is FINE. The rest will sort itself out later on.

[HopeArises]

I disagree. The reason people come here for advice is because they don't know the best way to handle it and you know the old saying about how it's easier to give advice than to receive it, and lots of people including myself dispense quality advice that they wouldn't follow if they were the ones in the very same situation, we just can't. Because we react on emotions and not logic. If we did the latter, this forum wouldn't even need to be here.

 

 

 

I disagree with you. When you have enough confidence in yourself, you should listen to your own voice inside. Most people who come on here are desperate and weak and are always seeking HEELLLLPPPPP!!!! Literally, phrased in that manner. There are some people on here with SOUND, objective and unbiased opinions and offer suggestions, but don't push their own experiences (Which many times have been tainted by bad and sometimes horrible experiences, that have left them bitter and jaded) on others who are weak and impressionable and vulnerable.

 

A truly strong person won't ask the entire public world what he should think, or say to someone WE DON'T KNOW. We don't have both sides of the story. We judge. We gang up on. We say very harsh things. We feel entitled to do so. We shouldn't feel this entitlement. You assumed his ex wanted to get off the phone and be done with him and get on with what she was doing before. WHY? Because that's YOUR personality? So many assumptions are made and some people on here are on power trips, because they have little to no control over their own life and feel they can regain that control on this site, with weaker individuals who are LOST.

 

The OP needs to work on his self-esteem (and he is through a therapist). He comes on here often, creating new topics constantly, putting his life out there for all to see and NEEDS us to tell him what to say and what to do next. At the end of the day he didn't really use the advice he was given on here, which is fine, because different people on here have very different opinions. I don't believe in staying in NC forever. That's for people who hold their PRIDE up very high and think if the ex doesn't come back, their loss. Maybe it is their loss, but guess what? We'll never know if we didn't try, so don't come down hard on the OP for trying. He didn't do it the right way, because he isn't there yet in himself, but he tried. He put himself out there, which is courageous. More than I can say for a lot of people who just talk, but don't act.

[Tomuch2hope]

I don't believe in staying in NC forever. That's for people who hold their PRIDE up very high and think if the ex doesn't come back, their loss. Maybe it is their loss, but guess what? We'll never know if we didn't try, so don't come down hard on the OP for trying. He didn't do it the right way, because he isn't there yet in himself, but he tried. He put himself out there, which is courageous. More than I can say for a lot of people who just talk, but don't act.

 

Hear!! Hear!!

[Jim Wormold]

Guys, finally I get to replying. I think some of you misunderstood me.

 

I have no problems with criticism, that's why I joined the forum.

 

What would have been nice if some of you could have done what Nick Lansing did

once to someone else: "hey, your made a mistake. we all do, but just hang in there.

get back into NC, We are behind you etc etc."

 

Instead I felt like the object of scorn from the "too kool for skools" here.

 

Ok, so I acted without giving it enough thought and made a mistake...If I did call too soon

or say too much, fine. So be it. I have been holding back my whole life and after my therapy

I needed that impulse to just be free. Regardless of right or wrong.

 

But I am actually feeling a bit more easy now. Somehow I think the worst

might be behind me.

 

I am not going to kill myself over this woman any more.

 

For two reasons: I thought back of previous girlfriends

and one ex from 1998 is still THE ex...and we still have contact.

 

In fact, I emailed her for her birthday in October and she asked

when I was going to visit her city again. But yes,

she had that special combination of intellect, humour and sexiness

that, as much as I love the last ex, well, cannot really compete.

 

All my exs since then seemed important for a while but faded really.

 

The fact that that kind of woman did fall for me, tells me I have chances

in the future. I am putting things into perspective.

 

Today I briefly, by chance, looked into the eyes of an attractive woman and

suddenly felt there was hope out there. Something about her cheeky expression

told me things are going to be ok.

 

I am taking everything I learnt and using it for the next one. If by some

universal law, the last ex senses this and contacts me, well she is going to

have to really work for it this time....

 

Please dont get me wrong, I do appreciate all your advice. I just think we have

a responsibility to recognise that some of the newer ones here may be in a fragile

frame of mind when posting. You have to post gingerly and if they seem to be ready

for more, well give them more.

 

Thanks, and looking forward to more exchange also from you Thorshammer

and antigen...

 

ps. Tomuch2hope ....and particularly HopeArises... B I G thumbs up!

[Nick Lansing]

Thanks for the kind words. I think people sometimes get invested when they give advice and then the recipient goes against it. When I was a smug married guy I went through this with my little brother who had hellacious problems in relationships. I also did something similar with my best friend. I'd get pissed when they didn't follow my advice and then they'd get hurt and I'd kind of pile on because I was so frustrated...

 

Then I realized people will do what they want to do. And that's how it should be (as long as they're not hurting anybody). People treasure their autonomy, and we should give them their freedom to make mistakes. People would rather follow their heart and fall on their face than follow someone else's advice (and maybe fall on their face anyway). We learn better by experience than we do by listening to advice anyway.

 

When I look back with regret on anything, it's usually the things I didn't do rather than the things I DID.

 

Jim laid his cards on the table and got rejected. Personally, I wouldn't have done it, but what the hell, I'm not an expert. He didn't stalk her or buy 1000 roses and send them to her office, or scream at her and call her names, or brag about all the tail he's getting... He didn't humiliate himself or burn any bridges.

 

And who knows, possibly he planted a seed that might grow into something with time. In my experience, I've variously done the begging, the carefully thought-out written argument, the freaking out, and the doing nothing. In the long run, each time* it ended up about the same: eventually I gave up and stopped trying and started to move on, and the ex came back AFTER THAT, when SHE felt like it. My takeaway is that unless you completely flake out and it's restraining order time, you may get another chance but probably not when you're expecting it. What your approach is during the immediate period after the breakup (so long as it's not completely psycho) doesn't make much difference.

 

So yes, Jim didn't follow the classic advice dispensed here by me and many others, but he didn't do anything bad. And I doubt he did anything to doom his chances at reconciliation. Jim, just look at this as closure and move on. It's out of your hands.

 

*The one exception is my current breakup. I've followed the classic advice (pretty much initiated no contact, been cordial when contacted, never begged and have given her 100% space), and she hasn't come back.

[Jim Wormold]

Guys, finally I get to replying. I think some of you misunderstood me.

 

I have no problems with criticism, that's why I joined the forum.

 

What would have been nice if some of you could have done what Nick Lansing did

once to someone else: "hey, your made a mistake. we all do, but just hang in there.

get back into NC, We are behind you etc etc."

 

Instead I felt like the object of scorn from the "too kool for skools" here.

 

Apologies to anyone who may have felt included in my "too kool for skools" line. It wasn't meant

in such a negative way actually. Wanting to be like the others is what everyone aims for, except

sometimes one doesn't quite have the right trowsers But really, I do appreciate the fact that people

take the time to read my posts. I guess I felt antigen might have considered a more sensitive way to tell

me I had messed up (no hard feelings!). But hey, we are all normal people without the therapist training.

So things can be a bit rough at the edges, but on whole, the intentions here are still that it

is a forum to help others. That's a great thing indeed.

 

So I sincerely thank all who replied.

[Jim Wormold]

... eventually I gave up and stopped trying and started to move on, and the ex came back AFTER THAT, when SHE felt like it. My takeaway is that unless you completely flake out and it's restraining order time, you may get another chance but probably not when you're expecting it. What your approach is during the immediate period after the breakup (so long as it's not completely psycho) doesn't make much difference.

 

So yes, Jim didn't follow the classic advice dispensed here by me and many others, but he didn't do anything bad. And I doubt he did anything to doom his chances at reconciliation. Jim, just look at this as closure and move on. It's out of your hands. ...

 

Hi Nick, thanks for your encouraging reply! Interesting to read that you think

a reconciliation is still not out of the question. At the very least I needn't be

so hard on myself now for calling. NC for sure now.

 

Yes, I am working on letting go now. It doesn't always feel like I am moving

forward, but there are occasional glimpses of faith in new things.

 

But I know that that is my key to this. I need to move on, somehow.

My social life has become more active for a start and I am burrowing

myself into my projects. Just hate that empty abandoned feeling just as one

wakes up.

 

Thanks again for those special words - really meant a lot to me.

[Thorshammer]

/me pounds fists together

 

Jimmy... you are either with the boyz... or against us... whats it going to be, jim?

 

Honestly, if I posted what to do in my situation, everyone would have said to go NC. That would have been horrible, because poster dont think that if I went from being weak, to being a jerk like I did, would ruin any chance of her safely reaching out without feeling its a lose/lose situation (not that that was my intention with a letter i sent, but it does make sense). And also, sometimes, you need to need plant a positive memory as your exit, one last effort so she knows she never gave up, I never liked the I AGREE WITH THE BREAK-UP, GOODBYE. Thats a very dangerous game to play, and doesnt apply to most break ups.

 

Plus, my intentions were to say goodbye, I am not going to set that up to get her back. I mean, I tell people if they want to make a play, wait... but i dont have the desire to chase anymore. I am happy i sent a message telling her i appreciated her. She did a lot for me, i cant erase that because she wants out, she deserved that letter, she deserved to get her ego-boost.

[Jim Wormold]

Hey Thorshammer, thanks and nice to hear from you.

 

Well, I didn't say I agreed. I said I loved her and accepted and respected her decision. Also, that I would

still be around for a while (though its up to her to guess how long). Surely with my efforts, it is obvious

that I am not agreeing or giving the impression I dont really care. According to you, I should have done

less of the caring...no? But please disagree if you like...

 

To be fair on myself though - the first call was amazing. All that concern that I was not confident

enough to pull off a playful chat was for nothing. I know I could pull it off again. I was also not

emotional in any way in the second one.

 

My farewell may have been a little too stiff for comfort (though I am having

difficulty remembering it exactly). Yes, I have worried that it should have been a more pleasant goodbye.

The only way I could even consider doing what you did with your ex, would be to write a very brief two or three

liner email to her for her birthday at end of this month. But that would be going out of NC right? What do you think?

 

I read somewhere online that its ok to do that if the BU was not bad bad. Which it wasnt really with us.

 

The other thing is...and here's the twist for which I would love a comment too.

 

Two statements by her I should have followed up with her then was:

* "Now you have my new number" (laughter, first call)

* "With you returning my things, I don't know, somehow I was

hoping for something different."

 

Her text message may just have been another protection mechanism

after hearing about her returned goods I left at a friend's place.

 

I left her some money I owed with a brief note wishing her happiness

with new things. Which I wouldn't have thought of as sounding needy, but

it seems now there is with both of us a protection mechanism in place. As soon

as the one does something negative, the other switches off the heart.

 

So, very confusing. Yes, saying not calling her again was another big mistake.

Any thoughts? Promise not to throw your graciously invested time out the window

now...

 

I am in a better state of mind now to deal with the tougher comments now, hah.

[Nick Lansing]

I agree with that. I think it's good for everyone involved if you go away on a positive note, even if it means writing a letter saying hey thanks, good luck. As long as it's not all melodamatic, and as ong as you don't expect any response.

 

If I could distill the advice given on this board to one line, it would be: Go out with dignity and respect, don't beg or stalk, work on yourself, love yourself, and realize life will be fine whether or not you ever see your ex again, and who knows, maybe you'll get another chance some day.

[Jim Wormold]

On second thoughts, emails can come off sounding stiff too. Regardless

of how many smileys one puts in.

 

The only way out of that "make good gesture" idea would be to call her on her birthday

end of month with some joke about be last time I called and also because it seemed right

to call after our last call may have been a bit odd.

[Jim Wormold]

She always spoke about how she liked piglets and would love

to have one as a pet because they are so cute. Sooo, birthday idea+

good feeling gesture would be a youtube video of cute piglets plus

brief nice birthday message...

 

All of this off the top of my head so totally open to keeping NC too.

[Angler]

NC Dude.

 

You're thinking too much. I am very guilty of this too.

 

The only time I do something is when I have a very clear indication that it will be received warmly, and not perceived as needy. Whenever I am unsure of what to do, I do nothing.

[Thorshammer]

Hey Thorshammer, thanks and nice to hear from you.

 

Well, I didn't say I agreed. I said I loved her and accepted and respected her decision. Also, that I would

still be around for a while (though its up to her to guess how long). Surely with my efforts, it is obvious

that I am not agreeing or giving the impression I dont really care. According to you, I should have done

less of the caring...no? But please disagree if you like...

 

Depends on the reason for the break up. Usually, its a failure of attraction. when attraction is an issue, the logical remedy is to attempt to gain attract back. If she leaves because you were acting needy, desperate and cliny, then its obvious you need to reverse this. This is the magic thing right here... both gaining attracion, and reversing those qualities go hand in hand, because both deal with ATTRACTION.

 

So take what you did wrong, and reverse it. DONT SAY YOU ARE, thats forced, force= fake.

 

To be fair on myself though - the first call was amazing. All that concern that I was not confident

enough to pull off a playful chat was for nothing. I know I could pull it off again. I was also not

emotional in any way in the second one.

 

My farewell may have been a little too stiff for comfort (though I am having

difficulty remembering it exactly). Yes, I have worried that it should have been a more pleasant goodbye.

The only way I could even consider doing what you did with your ex, would be to write a very brief two or three

liner email to her for her birthday at end of this month. But that would be going out of NC right? What do you think?

 

I sent that letter because it was a final goodbye, thats it. Also, as a feeler to where her head was at (and i saw hope, but not enough to extend going through hurt again), since she did hack my facebook.

 

I never told her happy bday, its not my job to make her happy anymore. I am not in the boyfriend role, she relieved me of any and all duties, so did yours. You can reach out if you choose, but i dont see the reason to.

 

I read somewhere online that its ok to do that if the BU was not bad bad. Which it wasnt really with us.

 

The other thing is...and here's the twist for which I would love a comment too.

 

Two statements by her I should have followed up with her then was:

* "Now you have my new number" (laughter, first call)

* "With you returning my things, I don't know, somehow I was

hoping for something different."

 

Her text message may just have been another protection mechanism

after hearing about her returned goods I left at a friend's place.

 

I left her some money I owed with a brief note wishing her happiness

with new things. Which I wouldn't have thought of as sounding needy, but

it seems now there is with both of us a protection mechanism in place. As soon

as the one does something negative, the other switches off the heart.

 

So, very confusing. Yes, saying not calling her again was another big mistake.

Any thoughts? Promise not to throw your graciously invested time out the window

now...

 

I am in a better state of mind now to deal with the tougher comments now, hah.

 

I dont see what she said as anything serious. Trying to intrepret something is going to make you nuts. She has to be obvious, because building up hope is the worse when you are going through a break up. The second comment about expecting things to be different, can you elaborate on that?

 

I still think a period of NC is wise, she needs to miss you, she cant do that if shes getting bits and pieces here, you are just helping her heal and get her through the jimmy-withdrawals. Think of it like taking that drug... i forgot what its called, but it subsititutes a high of a drug, they take that to slowly build away from real drugs, then they get used to not taking anything. Thats what you are doing each time you contact and tell her you will be there. Go away, let her face the withdrawal full effin force. Let her go through many weeks and knowing that you are gone and that your existence is nothing but a memory. Dont let her get that "hit" from you that you are still waiting to ease her withdrawals, people suck you up like a vampire to calm themselves. You dont miss someone who is still "there".

 

Also, if you were needy and desperate with her, nc might help plant in her brain that those weak flaws are dying away. Think of leaving someone who is fat, and each week they get skinnier, do you still look back and say, BUT, WAIT, SHE WAS STILL FAT (well yeah, I do... but still, some people subconsciously start to erase some of the past when they are in the present moment and your actions display a change). Reverse your flaws.

[Nick Lansing]

I think you're overthinking this. I would send a text or email for happy birthday, no piglet video.

 

I think you're coming off too needy. "I'm not gonna call... No wait, just this once... ha h did that even count?" I think you should have no contact til her birthday, and then keep it very simple. It should be obvious to her you're not really over her, there's no need to keep reminding her, in the hopes she'll change her mind.

[Jim Wormold]

Hi Nick, Angler and Thorshammer,

 

Wow, really appreciate your replies here. Yes, I agree with you all. NC is the way

to go, because the "missing you" possibility is all one can still aim for now. And also

because if I need anything, it's to move on.

 

Which leaves me somehow uncertain by your comment Nick. It seems as though you

would think that although I am in NC from now on, an very brief birthday email or text

at the end of November would be ok. Did I understand you correctly?

 

Thorshammer, you asked: " The second comment about expecting things to be different,

can you elaborate on that?"

 

Well, in my first chat with her - the playful and really nice one

- I mentioned that I would be bringing her things to her friend that evening. That clearly

through her off I could tell. The rejection text came soon after that call. Unfortunately I did

not follow up on what she meant by: "I don't know, somehow I was hoping for something different."

in relation to the return of her stuff. Seems nuts now that I think of the missed opportunity, I

clearly was not actively listening. She did however say it was a difficult time for her.

 

As you say, who knows what one can read into these things. She said she did really mean

it in the first break up talk, that she would like to try again sometime, but "no promises". Maybe

her hopes were that it would work out, but that her feelings hadnt changed towards me (in not

wanting me back). Perhaps that is all that was meant. A friend of mine told me that returning

her stuff is actually a contradiction in terms when I actually want her back and that this could

be taken as a signal by her that I am giving the wrong signals.

 

Whatever. Hard to know. And yes, I will stop thinking so much!