Manager is an indecent liar

[Messiah]

It's at an established fortune 500 company, in an office with about 45 people. I am new and in a lowly office assistant position, and another girl was hired about a week before me. In my first week a manager came and sat with me at the receptionist desk so she could train me on it. we answered phones and did some of the front desk duties, and at the end of the day she gave me a run down "If you ever need to deliver mail at the end of the day the post office box is right accross the parking lot and you can just drive over to it. If the mail bucket is full you don't have to waste your time stuffing the mail into the PO Box, you can leave the bucket right there next to the PO Box and the mailman will take the whole bucket." In my mind I thought "Hmm that's stupid.. someone could steal it" But I didn't say anything, and I never did it that way.. Just stuffed the mail into the PO box. Well a month or so later I hear from the other new girl who was venting, "I just got wrote up for leaving the mail out! But that's how the manager told me to do mail" And I knew instantly that I was told the same thing. I asked the new girl if she explained that to the other manager who wrote her up. She said she did but the manager didn't believe her. apparently the one who told her how to do it wrong came into new girl's office "Why did you tell the other manager that I told you that?! I never told you that". I thought "Wow that's kinda creepy, unstable, and screwed up." I ended up going into the other managers office and explaining how I was also told to do mail that way and how I think it's indecent and demeaning of that manager and I have a hard time trusting her now. The other manager defends her and doesn't really seem to believe me but told me "hmm just give me a week to think about it". Her response to the situation ends up being sitting me down at a table with unstable manager, her, and general manager to discuss my "tensions" with that manager. I explain the mail thing and how we were trained and she argues "Absolutely not!" The general manager then says "I believe you both. it sounds like a miscommunication error." They just wanted it to blow over and not do anything about it.... How can I go into work everyday knowing I have an unstable manager who would easily pin blame on me? I think I need to quit...

[RedDress]

So... I think you handled the situation in a less than ideal way.

 

I think it's great that you went to the other manager to explain that you had also been instructed to leave the mail out. But... that's where you should have left it. I think that your downfall was in adding that you thought it was "indecent and demeaning and that you have a hard time trusting her now".

 

You see... your manager has worked there longer than you. So... unless she specifically has a reputation of saying things and then going back on them, they are going to lean towards believing her over you to begin with. By adding that you thought it was indecent, demeaning, etc, to a 3rd party who doesn't know who to believe, it kind of sounds like a personal attack on that manager. You are also (in not so many words) demanding that SHE get in trouble over the incident.

 

Sometimes what you don't say has more impact than what you do say.

 

You didn't play the game. She's your boss and you didn't leave her an "out". You could have simply said something like "I understood the same as Jane. I was also told that we could leave the bucket next to the mailbox".

 

Unfortunately... it all now comes down to the manager. Is she vindictive? Is she sneaky? You will soon find out.

 

If you want to smooth things over with her, I'd go and approach her individually to express regret for the misunderstanding between you and to offer an olive branch. If you can't swallow your pride a bit and do that... yeah... finding another job might be a good option.

[Messiah]

I agree with you - I did say too much. I guess I let my emotions get a hold of me. And based on what I know about her she is sneaky and vindictive, I've got it coming I think... But no, there's no way I'd like to smooth things over with her. I don't really have the stomach to.

[Ariel85]

I ended up going into the other managers office and explaining how I was also told to do mail that way and how I think it's indecent and demeaning of that manager and I have a hard time trusting her now. I think I need to quit...

 

You won't need to quit, as I'm sure they're working on your separation papers.

 

As the new girl in the office, not the best move to march yourself into a managers office and call another manager "indecent and demeaning", and how you consider her untrustworthy.

 

I honestly don't think the problem here is an "unstable manager". I think your behavior was super unprofessional, and not the actions of a new person in the office who wants to keep her job. You stirred up a heap of drama when none of it involved you, made harsh and public comments about management, and bypassed normal corporate protocol.

 

Can you explain a little about what possessed you to bring such havoc to your work life? Because if I were management, I'd not want to keep you around purely because of the drama and unprofessionalism. I'd have to think if you would say this about a boss, what would you be saying to clients anc customers??

[sadchick83]

Welcome to the corporate world! Managers will lie cheat and steal-no problem- especially to protect themselves! As the new 24 year old office admin. I suggest you try to be a "Greywoman" in other words, lay low until you have been there at least a year. And by the way, you yourself pinned blame to your unstable managed by bringing this up in the first place.

 

Hey, I'm on your side, but you should realize office politics are about 50%-80% of your success rate at your job. This was not the best thing to do. If you want to bring something like this up in the future, do it anonymously. Im sure this fortune 500 company has an HR snitch line --you can call an bring something against policy up without revealing your identity.

[Messiah]

Unprofessional I suppose, but I guess I am a nice person who believes in honesty and fairness. I feel strongly against authority figures abusing their power and on the little guy just because they can.

[Ariel85]

Unprofessional I suppose, but I guess I am a nice person who believes in honesty and fairness. I feel strongly against authority figures abusing their power and * * * * ting on the little guy just because they can.

 

Maybe you should go work for the ACLU or a battered womans shelter or something, because this attitude won't fly in the corporate world, Norma Rae. lol

[Messiah]

Maybe you should go work for the ACLU or a battered womans shelter or something, because this attitude won't fly in the corporate world, Norma Rae. lol

 

Lol.. Thanks for the advice, I actually really would like to go work for a battered woman's shelter.

[Ariel85]

Lol.. Thanks for the advice, I actually really would like to go work for a battered woman's shelter.

 

I didn't mean that glibly, btw. I think your calling is more suited for social service than corporate. There you can make a difference by fighting for the little guy, because people will appreciate it, and you won't compromise yourself in the process.

[thejigsup]

There's tons of politics in social services, believe me. Just as much as in the corporate world. Where there is a hierarchy, there is politics. Know your role and act accordingly, is my belief.

[Applewhite]

I do think this post was a tad harsh.

 

And to answer to the question in bold: because she actually has morals? Does that really have to be a sin, even in the 'corporate world'?

[RedDress]

And to answer to the question in bold: because she actually has morals? Does that really have to be a sin, even in the 'corporate world'?

 

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. You can have both morals and professionalism.

 

If you start flinging blame around and more or less demanding that people get in trouble... they aren't going to like you. Everyone makes mistakes. When is that finger going to be pointed at them instead?

 

If you point out the mistake without passing judgement while allowing for the mistakes of others - that's professional.

 

I don't think this is a "big evil corporate world" thing... I think it's a life thing, personally.

[Applewhite]

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. You can have both morals and professionalism.

 

If you start flinging blame around and more or less demanding that people get in trouble... they aren't going to like you. Everyone makes mistakes. When is that finger going to be pointed at them instead?

 

If you point out the mistake without passing judgement while allowing for the mistakes of others - that's professional.

 

I don't think this is a "big evil corporate world" thing... I think it's a life thing, personally.

 

Some posters suggested she shouldn't have opened her mouth because she was new. I completely disagree with that. If that was the alternative, she did the moral thing in my opinion. She could have left emotions out of it yes, but she is human and that is a normal mistake too. The manager on the other hand made a mistake, repeatedly, then lied about it even if it meant having someone be penalized for her own repeated mistakes. If this kind of behavior isn't pointed out by someone it gets worse and worse.

 

How do you think something like this should be handled?

[Ariel85]

Some posters suggested she shouldn't have opened her mouth because she was new. If that was the alternative, she did the moral thing in my opinion. She could have left emotions out of it yes, but she is human and that is a normal mistake too. The manager on the other hand made a mistake, repeatedly, then lied about it even if it meant having someone be penalized for her own repeated mistakes. If this kind of behavior isn't pointed out by someone it gets worse and worse.

 

How do you think something like this should be handled?

 

She definitely shouldn't have involved herself in a battle that didn't concern her, and she most definitely should not have taken to insulting management.

 

It's not about morals, it's about protocol and respecting the chain of command and understanding business politicking.

 

This is a skill set we all learn in grammar school. If a teacher tells Johnny that he can have an extra cookie, then he gets in trouble for taking a second one and she claims she never said that, the issue ends there. Another student doesn't march herself into the principal's office to tattle on the teacher, and to make disparaging remarks about her in the process. Where do you really think this kind of behavior will get her in the long run?

 

How should it have been handled? The OP should have stayed out of it. If she were approached individually by management and asked what she were told about the mail, if anything, she should have said, "I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall Mrs. Smith telling me to also leave the mail outside, though I thought it sounded strange at the time as I feared the mail being stolen. I figured there was some reason for this I wasn't informed about." *shrug*.

[RedDress]

Some posters suggested she shouldn't have opened her mouth because she was new. I completely disagree with that.

 

Ahh... I didn't catch that. I completely disagree with that as well. If you see something wrong going on - you can (and should!) most definitely say something. The way you say it, though, matters.

 

She definitely shouldn't have involved herself in a battle that didn't concern her, and she most definitely should not have taken to insulting management.

 

I disagree that she should have stayed out of it. If she has information (that she was told the same thing) that another manager is not privvy to - you should definitely speak up.

 

You could have simply said something like "I understood the same as Jane. I was also told that we could leave the bucket next to the mailbox".

 

That's what I suggested in my original post. It's leaving the door open for the manager to defend herself and it's not insulting management (saying stuff like it's demeaning, etc... which really... that's a bit much). It's simply stating the facts as she knows them.

 

I think you can say anything you want to say... as long as you remain diplomatic about it.

[thejigsup]

No, you can't say anything you want, even if you are polite about it. That's the fast lane to the unemployment line.

[Ariel85]

I think you can say anything you want to say... as long as you remain diplomatic about it.

 

This isn't how the real world works, and most definitely isn't how corporate works.

[RedDress]

This isn't how the real world works, and most definitely isn't how corporate works.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree as my experience has been quite the opposite. In fact, I've been promoted (and praised) several times for being able to say what needs to be said without pointing fingers. Watch your executives! They are often where they are precisely for their ability to get things done and to spin.

 

You don't have to keep quiet. You just have to know your place, allow for the mistakes of others and know when to stop talking.

[Applewhite]

Ariel, I can't help but wonder where you work..

And I have to agree with ReDress and her comments/experience.

[Messiah]

 

This is a skill set we all learn in grammar school. If a teacher tells Johnny that he can have an extra cookie, then he gets in trouble for taking a second one and she claims she never said that, the issue ends there. Another student doesn't march herself into the principal's office to tattle on the teacher, and to make disparaging remarks about her in the process. Where do you really think this kind of behavior will get her in the long run?

 

 

In the long run that sort of behavior could get her a lot of places. She has an eye for honesty and justice, she has the intelligence to assess right from wrong on her own accord, and she has the courage to stand up for what is right.

[Ariel85]

In fact, I've been promoted (and praised) several times for being able to say what needs to be said without pointing fingers.

 

Well, that's great, but that's not what happened here, is it, and isn't what I was commenting on, was it?

 

The OP took it upon herself to out her boss, and, in the process, make some hugely disparaging and inappropriate comments about her. Which, then ended the OP in a meeting with the GM to discuss her ability to get along with her coworkers. Does that sound like she's on the path to promotion?

[Ariel85]

Ariel, I can't help but wonder where you work..

 

Before starting my own company, I was a VP at a Fortune 50 company, based in Manhattan.

[RedDress]

The OP took it upon herself to out her boss, and, in the process, make some hugely disparaging and inappropriate comments about her. Which, then ended the OP in a meeting with the GM to discuss her ability to get along with her coworkers. Does that sound like she's on the path to promotion?

 

Totally agreed that the disparaging remarks were uncalled for and what ultimately got her in trouble.

[Ariel85]

Totally agreed that the disparaging remarks were uncalled for and what ultimately got her in trouble.

 

Right on.

 

Hey, I think the whole "let's storm the castle" mentality is noble and something I see a lot in 20-somethings, but the reality is that in "high corporate", this kind of stuff simply doesn't fly.

 

It's one thing to come into a job with a fresh set of eyes and ideas, and vocalize them WHEN APPROPRIATE, but anything that brings negative attention, such as the OP's tale, is a stamp on a dead-ended employee. Nothing she did will be considered a plus to her superiors. Sure, her coworker might appreciate it, but she's not the one who decides the OP's fate.

[Mesemene]

Actually, I find I fall somewhere in the middle here.

 

I'd have said yes, bring it to the manager's attention - but in a tactful and diplomatic way that gives an "out" to the assistant.

 

Something like "Excuse me sir, I couldn't help but overhear, and I got the same impression on my first day. Maybe there was some sort of miscommunication?"

 

That leaves the opportunity for apology without casting aspersions on either party - and still brings to the manager's attention that maybe the instructions need a bit of review.